Wow, go away for a night, come back and it's like the warden moved in on you guys. lol
So, anyone want to help me with a strat on Space Marines vs Orks, or what? :P
T1 is entirely ugly against them!
The Orks can't be everywhere at once and if they are then their forces are split up and can be picked off one or two at a time. Keep your forces together, SM absolutely can't split forces in tier 1 against Orks or they'll do the same to you. Cap the parts of the map where their control is weakest, and retreat from battles after taking out as many orks as possible WITHOUT losing any Marines. This way you're costing them req whilst not being forced to spend any of yours on reinforcements.
Protect your power and have it as close to your base as possible so you have a fast response time to it. If you can't tech then the game is effectively over.
Once you get to tier 2, you'll have a few tactical squads and you should be able to fight the entirety of the Ork army on your own terms. You'll need power once in tier 2 as well to gain the advantage and destroy ork vehicles, so keep it safe. Sergeants are a must for ASM and TSM squads and if you use the Force Commander the Thunder Hammer can be a godsend against massed orks. Be sure to save some power though, the Deff Dread or Wartrukk will invariably try to catch you off-guard.
You'll find that if you've kept your squads alive and haven't lost total map control by tier 2, then the advantage will come back to Space Marines. Ork tier 2 is weak in comparison to SM.
Goomba, what is your usual (and even perchance, UNUSUAL) Eldar strategy?
Personally, I head my initial guardians to the center of the map for any of the power nodes, while my exarch gets everything on the sides by hopping around like a bunny. I build guardians/shurikens in a 2:1 manner, shurikens as backups for guardians. Then I Tier 2 and probably only build a Falcon next because he's hella power expensive. After him, Tier 3, and then the D-cannons.
Problem being I'm horrible with positioning the D-cannons most of the time, and don't seem to get the optimal way of positioning them. Perhaps I should tag a Ranger team with them for extra visibility or something.
How do you go about it (the strategy, but also the cannon setting can be helpful too)?
Goomba, what is your usual (and even perchance, UNUSUAL) Eldar strategy?
Personally, I head my initial guardians to the center of the map for any of the power nodes, while my exarch gets everything on the sides by hopping around like a bunny. I build guardians/shurikens in a 2:1 manner, shurikens as backups for guardians. Then I Tier 2 and probably only build a Falcon next because he's hella power expensive. After him, Tier 3, and then the D-cannons.
Problem being I'm horrible with positioning the D-cannons most of the time, and don't seem to get the optimal way of positioning them. Perhaps I should tag a Ranger team with them for extra visibility or something.
How do you go about it (the strategy, but also the cannon setting can be helpful too)?
Why, platforms spamming or what every other Eldar player does! Play the game like it's DoW 1!
Three guardians (upgrading as needed), a ranger (more as needed), then Falcons! It's combined arms, you see. Avoiding the units that make your army stand out. Right, Canem?
By the way, that game where I beat that ork with eldar after being afk for two and a half minutes?
Mere seconds prior to tabbing back in goomba had sent me the link to that Go Go "song" by B44, and as a result the song was running in the background of the game for pretty much its whole duration.
Goomba, what is your usual (and even perchance, UNUSUAL) Eldar strategy?
Personally, I head my initial guardians to the center of the map for any of the power nodes, while my exarch gets everything on the sides by hopping around like a bunny. I build guardians/shurikens in a 2:1 manner, shurikens as backups for guardians. Then I Tier 2 and probably only build a Falcon next because he's hella power expensive. After him, Tier 3, and then the D-cannons.
Problem being I'm horrible with positioning the D-cannons most of the time, and don't seem to get the optimal way of positioning them. Perhaps I should tag a Ranger team with them for extra visibility or something.
How do you go about it (the strategy, but also the cannon setting can be helpful too)?
Why, platforms spamming or what every other Eldar player does! Play the game like it's DoW 1!
Three guardians (upgrading as needed), a ranger (more as needed), then Falcons! It's combined arms, you see. Avoiding the units that make your army stand out. Right, Canem?
How do you juggle Falcons and D's? D's are only 40, but Falcons are ninety fucking five.
Falcon's power isn't that bad since T1 is mostly about guardians and shurikens and neither of those cost power and guardians only need 10 to upgrade to plasma nades. I can't remember what rangers is, 20 or 30? I don't normally build more than 1 ranger squad though.
Rami on
Steam / Xbox Live: WSDX NNID: W-S-D-X 3DS FC: 2637-9461-8549
Goomba, what is your usual (and even perchance, UNUSUAL) Eldar strategy?
Personally, I head my initial guardians to the center of the map for any of the power nodes, while my exarch gets everything on the sides by hopping around like a bunny. I build guardians/shurikens in a 2:1 manner, shurikens as backups for guardians. Then I Tier 2 and probably only build a Falcon next because he's hella power expensive. After him, Tier 3, and then the D-cannons.
Problem being I'm horrible with positioning the D-cannons most of the time, and don't seem to get the optimal way of positioning them. Perhaps I should tag a Ranger team with them for extra visibility or something.
How do you go about it (the strategy, but also the cannon setting can be helpful too)?
Why, platforms spamming or what every other Eldar player does! Play the game like it's DoW 1!
Three guardians (upgrading as needed), a ranger (more as needed), then Falcons! It's combined arms, you see. Avoiding the units that make your army stand out. Right, Canem?
Look we know you're upset you cant use banshees anymore. We get it. Seriously. You can kill it with this stuff now.
Wow, go away for a night, come back and it's like the warden moved in on you guys. lol
So, anyone want to help me with a strat on Space Marines vs Orks, or what? :P
T1 is entirely ugly against them!
The Orks can't be everywhere at once and if they are then their forces are split up and can be picked off one or two at a time. Keep your forces together, SM absolutely can't split forces in tier 1 against Orks or they'll do the same to you. Cap the parts of the map where their control is weakest, and retreat from battles after taking out as many orks as possible WITHOUT losing any Marines. This way you're costing them req whilst not being forced to spend any of yours on reinforcements.
Protect your power and have it as close to your base as possible so you have a fast response time to it. If you can't tech then the game is effectively over.
Once you get to tier 2, you'll have a few tactical squads and you should be able to fight the entirety of the Ork army on your own terms. You'll need power once in tier 2 as well to gain the advantage and destroy ork vehicles, so keep it safe. Sergeants are a must for ASM and TSM squads and if you use the Force Commander the Thunder Hammer can be a godsend against massed orks. Be sure to save some power though, the Deff Dread or Wartrukk will invariably try to catch you off-guard.
You'll find that if you've kept your squads alive and haven't lost total map control by tier 2, then the advantage will come back to Space Marines. Ork tier 2 is weak in comparison to SM.
Alright good, this helps a lot. How good are tac marine squads btw? I rarely use them compared to ASM's, mostly because they are the all purpose can openers, usually. But compared to Ork's they don't really hold up well.
Masume on
3DS Code - 5370-0463-9307 Wii U - 'Nocero' XBox ID - therealmasume PS4 ID - realmasume
Except you can. It's like the guys that said WSC was outdated but all you had to do was look at Sepha to know that wasn't true.
Now, just look at Stephen. He uses banshees quite well. Too bad nothing will save you from the venom cannon fury.
Banshees can barely beat guardians. Probably lose to guardians with the warlock upgrade. Just because you're afraid to run your razorback behind his brightlance doesn't make them useful.
Goomba, what is your usual (and even perchance, UNUSUAL) Eldar strategy?
Personally, I head my initial guardians to the center of the map for any of the power nodes, while my exarch gets everything on the sides by hopping around like a bunny. I build guardians/shurikens in a 2:1 manner, shurikens as backups for guardians. Then I Tier 2 and probably only build a Falcon next because he's hella power expensive. After him, Tier 3, and then the D-cannons.
Problem being I'm horrible with positioning the D-cannons most of the time, and don't seem to get the optimal way of positioning them. Perhaps I should tag a Ranger team with them for extra visibility or something.
How do you go about it (the strategy, but also the cannon setting can be helpful too)?
Why, platforms spamming or what every other Eldar player does! Play the game like it's DoW 1!
Three guardians (upgrading as needed), a ranger (more as needed), then Falcons! It's combined arms, you see. Avoiding the units that make your army stand out. Right, Canem?
Not to imply that Eldar are properly balanced but there are only 2 aspect warriors anyway, right? Warp Spiders and Banshees
Heavy melee damage has been cut by half, so the FIST isn't quite as beastly as in pre-patch
I haven't quite gotten to the scenario of multiple vehicles yet but I'd wager you'd be well and truly fucked at that point. Plasmas are good if you can set them up in a nice position early, but again, they need to be setup well (good thing they're very long range eh). Tac missles are the most flexible option, ASM meltas might be nice against tanks, but walkers will chew them up with the special-kills (sync-kill?).
why dont people like tankbustas? for my money they're the best unit of ork's notoriously weak T2; but I guess trukks and kans might be better if youre into that sort of thing but I was never into kan rushes, and trukks get knocked out way too quickly by AV for my taste
Alright good, this helps a lot. How good are tac marine squads btw? I rarely use them compared to ASM's, mostly because they are the all purpose can openers, usually. But compared to Ork's they don't really hold up well.
Tac marine squads are good - very good in fact. I was skeptical at first, but after some experimentation and figuring out their strengths and weaknesses (particularly after the advice given to me by this forum), you'll find they're a very adaptable and reliable unit, especially in T2.
Granted, the trick seems to be avoiding fighting specialists on their own terms. If you're facing a melee specialist unit for example, then position your tac marines as best you can to fight at range, or make sure they've got support while they're meleeing. And if they're facing ranged attackers, charge them into melee.
Personally, I've found that once you get tac squads into t2, deploying them in range of each other so that they can support each other helps as well. Especially if those squads are equipped with rocket launchers or plasma.
Of course, the downside to tac marine squads is due to their cost you really can't afford to lose them unless its a long game and you've got a ton of resources saved up. So it's usually a good idea to keep a close eye on their health, and retreat them as soon as the outcome of an encounter looks doubtful. Tac marine squads that survive long enough to gain veterancy can become downright scary.
Tankbusters are just terrible. They lack durability, flexibility and cost power (You need to leave T2 as quickly as possible). They do poor damage, taking often five barrages to even make your standard walker feel a hint of fear. Their range is terrible. Their barrage does very little damage unless you mass them, and even then a kill will be a matter of luck.
You might be able to use it on plasma cannon spam. You'd have to move quickly and hope he has nothing covering those cannons. Also, the tank busters themselves would probably lose in melee to the devastators...
They don't have a Nob upgrade, so they scale very poorly. In a razor back versus single tank buster squad, I imagine the razorback would win. Which seems silly as it fills many roles, is cheaper, and is fighting it's counter. Maybe in cover they could win, but the razor back doesn't even need to fear taking a hit or two, and could probably drive up and crush the cover. Or just drive around.
I'm not a fan of tankbusters. Ork AT comes from it's commanders; the Mek's Beamy Deffgun, Boss' Powerklaw, and Kommando's Rokkit Launcha (Which DOES do really good damage.)
Speaking of which how high level can a tac squad--or any unit really--become? 3? 10?
I tested it out once just to see how high I could get them in a comp stomp, and if my memory serves correctly, I believe it was either 3 or 4. Regardless, their accuracy and survivability seems to increase once they get more experienced. Of course, I don't really have hard numbers to support this - it's mostly based on observation (ie. how long a tac squad lasts in melee against a specialist melee squad for example, or how often they seem to hit with the missile launcher).
is it just me or do space marines not have a very good response to several enemy vehicles
Space marines definitely do have good response to vehicles, but like many of the factions they don't really get access to it until T2. The problem is that unless you secure a reasonable stream of resources early on, your opponent may reach T2 before you do and deploy vehicles before you're ready to deal with them.
As far as the power fist goes, it does seem like it doesn't quite annhiliate vehicles like it used to. Then again, aside from the default force commander most power fists are usually wielded by terminators who usually have more than enough time to deal with a vehicle at a leisurely pace. Provided they're not being swarmed by a superior force.
Beamy Lootas are alright. They're more expensive than brightlances, and cost the ALL IMPORTANT power resource, but they are a bit more durable, I think.
As we've gone over many a time though, you need two bright lances to really threaten a walker. Even then, all they need is a ASM squad to drop down and tie/kill one up long enough for the walker to become very dangerous to the AT itself, forcing a retreat and your entire force to quit the field. The same applies to Loota squads, but you're paying for more.
It's really a tough spot for Orks. Their AT units have will really harm their ability to fight against normal forces. What's even worse is when you're fighting against Nids in a 3v3, and then an ally of the Nids brings up a couple walkers. Orks have to go all out anti-infantry to counter a Nid swarm. Unless you went powerclaw boss, you're probably defenseless without allied support of your own.
Posts
Perhaps I just play it smarter than my opponents, but I've always had huge success with tankbusters taking down vehicles...
The Orks can't be everywhere at once and if they are then their forces are split up and can be picked off one or two at a time. Keep your forces together, SM absolutely can't split forces in tier 1 against Orks or they'll do the same to you. Cap the parts of the map where their control is weakest, and retreat from battles after taking out as many orks as possible WITHOUT losing any Marines. This way you're costing them req whilst not being forced to spend any of yours on reinforcements.
Protect your power and have it as close to your base as possible so you have a fast response time to it. If you can't tech then the game is effectively over.
Once you get to tier 2, you'll have a few tactical squads and you should be able to fight the entirety of the Ork army on your own terms. You'll need power once in tier 2 as well to gain the advantage and destroy ork vehicles, so keep it safe. Sergeants are a must for ASM and TSM squads and if you use the Force Commander the Thunder Hammer can be a godsend against massed orks. Be sure to save some power though, the Deff Dread or Wartrukk will invariably try to catch you off-guard.
You'll find that if you've kept your squads alive and haven't lost total map control by tier 2, then the advantage will come back to Space Marines. Ork tier 2 is weak in comparison to SM.
Personally, I head my initial guardians to the center of the map for any of the power nodes, while my exarch gets everything on the sides by hopping around like a bunny. I build guardians/shurikens in a 2:1 manner, shurikens as backups for guardians. Then I Tier 2 and probably only build a Falcon next because he's hella power expensive. After him, Tier 3, and then the D-cannons.
Problem being I'm horrible with positioning the D-cannons most of the time, and don't seem to get the optimal way of positioning them. Perhaps I should tag a Ranger team with them for extra visibility or something.
How do you go about it (the strategy, but also the cannon setting can be helpful too)?
Play a defensive game till t2.
Three guardians (upgrading as needed), a ranger (more as needed), then Falcons! It's combined arms, you see. Avoiding the units that make your army stand out. Right, Canem?
Mere seconds prior to tabbing back in goomba had sent me the link to that Go Go "song" by B44, and as a result the song was running in the background of the game for pretty much its whole duration.
Conclusion? B44 gives you super eldar powers.
How do you juggle Falcons and D's? D's are only 40, but Falcons are ninety fucking five.
Look we know you're upset you cant use banshees anymore. We get it. Seriously. You can kill it with this stuff now.
Now, just look at Stephen. He uses banshees quite well. Too bad nothing will save you from the venom cannon fury.
Alright good, this helps a lot. How good are tac marine squads btw? I rarely use them compared to ASM's, mostly because they are the all purpose can openers, usually. But compared to Ork's they don't really hold up well.
Wii U - 'Nocero'
XBox ID - therealmasume
PS4 ID - realmasume
Powerfist.
Not to imply that Eldar are properly balanced but there are only 2 aspect warriors anyway, right? Warp Spiders and Banshees
I haven't quite gotten to the scenario of multiple vehicles yet but I'd wager you'd be well and truly fucked at that point. Plasmas are good if you can set them up in a nice position early, but again, they need to be setup well (good thing they're very long range eh). Tac missles are the most flexible option, ASM meltas might be nice against tanks, but walkers will chew them up with the special-kills (sync-kill?).
And tac marine missiles are stupid good.
:^: yeah tac marine missiles are awesome now, I hope they never change
Hint hint.
though it would be rather nice of them if they did...
Tac marine squads are good - very good in fact. I was skeptical at first, but after some experimentation and figuring out their strengths and weaknesses (particularly after the advice given to me by this forum), you'll find they're a very adaptable and reliable unit, especially in T2.
Granted, the trick seems to be avoiding fighting specialists on their own terms. If you're facing a melee specialist unit for example, then position your tac marines as best you can to fight at range, or make sure they've got support while they're meleeing. And if they're facing ranged attackers, charge them into melee.
Personally, I've found that once you get tac squads into t2, deploying them in range of each other so that they can support each other helps as well. Especially if those squads are equipped with rocket launchers or plasma.
Of course, the downside to tac marine squads is due to their cost you really can't afford to lose them unless its a long game and you've got a ton of resources saved up. So it's usually a good idea to keep a close eye on their health, and retreat them as soon as the outcome of an encounter looks doubtful. Tac marine squads that survive long enough to gain veterancy can become downright scary.
I sure hope so. This patch while full of a lot of good ideas, broke a whole lot of stuff too.
Tankbusters are just terrible. They lack durability, flexibility and cost power (You need to leave T2 as quickly as possible). They do poor damage, taking often five barrages to even make your standard walker feel a hint of fear. Their range is terrible. Their barrage does very little damage unless you mass them, and even then a kill will be a matter of luck.
You might be able to use it on plasma cannon spam. You'd have to move quickly and hope he has nothing covering those cannons. Also, the tank busters themselves would probably lose in melee to the devastators...
They don't have a Nob upgrade, so they scale very poorly. In a razor back versus single tank buster squad, I imagine the razorback would win. Which seems silly as it fills many roles, is cheaper, and is fighting it's counter. Maybe in cover they could win, but the razor back doesn't even need to fear taking a hit or two, and could probably drive up and crush the cover. Or just drive around.
I'm not a fan of tankbusters. Ork AT comes from it's commanders; the Mek's Beamy Deffgun, Boss' Powerklaw, and Kommando's Rokkit Launcha (Which DOES do really good damage.)
Speaking of which how high level can a tac squad--or any unit really--become? 3? 10?
10 for heroes.
Be gentle!
I tested it out once just to see how high I could get them in a comp stomp, and if my memory serves correctly, I believe it was either 3 or 4. Regardless, their accuracy and survivability seems to increase once they get more experienced. Of course, I don't really have hard numbers to support this - it's mostly based on observation (ie. how long a tac squad lasts in melee against a specialist melee squad for example, or how often they seem to hit with the missile launcher).
Space marines definitely do have good response to vehicles, but like many of the factions they don't really get access to it until T2. The problem is that unless you secure a reasonable stream of resources early on, your opponent may reach T2 before you do and deploy vehicles before you're ready to deal with them.
As far as the power fist goes, it does seem like it doesn't quite annhiliate vehicles like it used to. Then again, aside from the default force commander most power fists are usually wielded by terminators who usually have more than enough time to deal with a vehicle at a leisurely pace. Provided they're not being swarmed by a superior force.
As we've gone over many a time though, you need two bright lances to really threaten a walker. Even then, all they need is a ASM squad to drop down and tie/kill one up long enough for the walker to become very dangerous to the AT itself, forcing a retreat and your entire force to quit the field. The same applies to Loota squads, but you're paying for more.
It's really a tough spot for Orks. Their AT units have will really harm their ability to fight against normal forces. What's even worse is when you're fighting against Nids in a 3v3, and then an ally of the Nids brings up a couple walkers. Orks have to go all out anti-infantry to counter a Nid swarm. Unless you went powerclaw boss, you're probably defenseless without allied support of your own.
Same.