Can an Ending Ruin/Save an Entire Game?

Djiem

LewieP wrote: »

Heh, no one has said Fahrenheit/Indigo Prophecy yet.

Such a big shame.

Yes, this game is pretty much the most perfect example of an ending/endgame ruining what was pure awesome up to that point.

Renzo

The ending to BG& E was fine. The main plot was tied up and a few threads were spun for a sequel.

Which, hey, we're getting a sequel. I forgot about that.

ScrabbleDude

SithDrummer wrote: »

The final fight in BG&E was fucking terrible. I was already dealing with simplified controls, being a port and all, but when they busted out the "hahaha now your controls are flipped for this fight!" chestnut I told them to go to hell and watched the ending cutscene on Youtube.

I just turned the controller upside-down and continued to win.

SithDrummer

It would have been difficult to turn my keyboard around.

Mostly I was just appalled that they would actually do that in the 21st century.

Djiem

Bah, it's not like reverted controls were any hard to use anyway. I beat the boss just fine. It takes like 5 seconds to adjust.

PeregrineFalcon

Yeah, I'll just go ahead and add to the Fallout 3 bitching.

Dissociater

I was pretty disappointed with the NWN2 ending. In fact, any game that encourages open world exploration that ends after the main story arc is completed is lame. One of the things I liked about the GTA games is after yo ufinish the game, you can keep playing and dicking around. It's like your reward for finishing the game. Mass effect annoyed me in this way too. There were so many places to go, worlds to explore and people to see, but once the main story arc concluded, you couldn't do any of that any more.

I think it should be a goal of every game developer to extend gameplay past the point of logical conclusion. Meaning if the game is open ended in design, you should still be able to explore and replay old things and all of that after you finished the main story. Hell, even Super Mario World allowed you to do that. If it's a game that isn't about exploration, but is more of a level based game (like the tomb raiders, x-men legends, legacy of kain style games), let us replay those old levels with bonuses. Like extra characters, weapons, abilities, etc.

ScrabbleDude

That said, in retrospect I am a bit disappointed with the ending of BG&E because it seems like the story has been left unfinished for years and I don't like wondering like that. But it doesn't ruin the entire game for me.

It's like The Sopranos. I hated the ending, but it didn't invalidate the entire viewing experience.

There are some endings that make a game stand out that much more for me though. Lufia 2 comes to mind. The ending in that game has ensured that I will never forget how awesome that game is.

Rorus Raz

An ending can save the game by being a better part of the sum, but it requires other quality parts as well. If the entire rest of the game is bad, you're unlikely to see it through the end. It'll make for interesting "Let's Plays" and not much else.

Burnage

Djiem wrote: »

LewieP wrote: »

Heh, no one has said Fahrenheit/Indigo Prophecy yet.

Such a big shame.

Yes, this game is pretty much the most perfect example of an ending/endgame ruining what was pure awesome up to that point.

Spoiler:

The real ending of that game is when you die in the theme park.

Believing this makes the game so much better.

WotanAnubis

Poor Septerra Core. I loved that game, but

Spoiler:

killing off my two favourite characters during the ending sequence? Are you fucking kidding me?

So any attempts to replay the game inevitably stalled at some point.

RainbowDespair

Never has my opinion of a game done such a 180 degree turn as it did with Indigo Prophecy. For the first half of the game, I was thinking "This is the coolest game ever!" By the end of the game, my only thoughts were "Pathetic."

freakish light

Falstaff wrote: »

SithDrummer wrote: »

Ganluan wrote: »

Regarding the Fallout 3 ending specifically:

Spoiler:

I was particularly aggravated it was so forced in an open world style game. I couldn't set Fawkes in instead? Not to mention I popped some Rad-X and was still fine until I "died".

The fact that they actually show Fawkes doing exactly the same thing not half an hour beforehand is really mindboggling. It's like they had two separate teams doing the main game and the ending.

Keeping in mind you can also have a robot or ghoul sidekick, which would ignore or enjoy the radiation bath respectively.

Anyways, Fallout 3's ending didn't even dent it in my eyes. I just used it as a good reason to retire my first character, and then restarted with a new morality goal and with no incentive beyond exploration. I found this to be a significantly more enjoyable way to play the game.

I understand that the ending is bad, but I kind of found the whole main story bad, so it didn't really do anything besides give me some closure so I could move on.

On this point, we've been talking in the Fallout thread about how companions weren't implemented until a very late stage in the development cycle, kind of shoehorned in at the last minute. They didn't really think about the ramifications of bringing the companions into the final chamber with you because they got done just under the wire.

I mean, it doesn't excuse how shitty the ending is, but it helps to explain how so much stupid made it into the game.

Sonar

I liked the ending to Max Payne 1 and 2.

Just saying 'cause we need some positive up in here.

Renzo

Sonar wrote: »

I liked the ending to Max Payne 1 and 2.

Just saying 'cause we need some positive up in here.

The normal ending for 2 is great. Fucking great. Hell the whole game is great.

Premier kakos

Lost Planet.

Spoiler:

Up until the last level, what you had was a very good third-person action game featuring clumsy, but powerful, mechs. The last level? Oh, yeah, hop in this fucking super agile ninja mech straight from Gundam, fly in to space, and fight another Gundam mech with fucking laser swords.

Also, Onimusha 2 and Devil May Cry 2.

Spoiler:

They both turned in to top-down shooters in the last level. WTF?

SageinaRage

The ending to a game can definitely be make or break for me. The ending is what shows that the developers actually had a coherent idea for a story, a consistent theme and plot, and that they actually care about you finishing the game, instead of just ignoring you once they have your money.

One game that I particularly enjoyed the ending to was Baten Kaitos

Spoiler:

I know it was ultra cheesy with everyone waving at the end, but it really tied up all the plot loose ends, all of the emotional journey, etc. I thought it worked really well.

Bad endings we've already covered pretty well. I'll try to think of some more that have great ones. The first two Fallouts had great endings, actually. Really tied the entire game together thematically, as well as plot wise.

edit:: The Beyond Good and Evil ending was pretty bad. Totally unsatisfying.

Vincent Grayson

Dissociater wrote: »

I was pretty disappointed with the NWN2 ending. In fact, any game that encourages open world exploration that ends after the main story arc is completed is lame. One of the things I liked about the GTA games is after yo ufinish the game, you can keep playing and dicking around. It's like your reward for finishing the game. Mass effect annoyed me in this way too. There were so many places to go, worlds to explore and people to see, but once the main story arc concluded, you couldn't do any of that any more.

I think it should be a goal of every game developer to extend gameplay past the point of logical conclusion. Meaning if the game is open ended in design, you should still be able to explore and replay old things and all of that after you finished the main story. Hell, even Super Mario World allowed you to do that. If it's a game that isn't about exploration, but is more of a level based game (like the tomb raiders, x-men legends, legacy of kain style games), let us replay those old levels with bonuses. Like extra characters, weapons, abilities, etc.

I think that's just a little limiting, as that prevents the story from say, ending with the character's death, which may be an appropriate ending.

I do think more games need new game+ or equivalent things though, allowing you to start over with the items/levels/etc that you finished with.

Renegen

Xenogear's ending saved the second CD for sure and possibly the game, since the whole game is no less than 80 hours, a lot of time that blunts you in some way.

Fiatil

Burnage wrote: »

Djiem wrote: »

LewieP wrote: »

Heh, no one has said Fahrenheit/Indigo Prophecy yet.

Such a big shame.

Yes, this game is pretty much the most perfect example of an ending/endgame ruining what was pure awesome up to that point.

Spoiler:

The real ending of that game is when you die in the theme park.

Believing this makes the game so much better.

Yeah, I mean I can look back on the early parts of the game and remember them fondly, but that ending was just buhhh. I just don't understand why that would ever happen to a game so awesome up until that point. I love Fallout 3 and Kotor 2 with their fairly rushed endings, but this was something else entirely. It doesn't help that the game runs with it for a few hours and doesn't just give us a quick merciful end.

Dashui

Star Ocean: Till the End of Time. The end of the game ruined not only everything that came before that point, but invalidated the entire series.

almighty_monkey

I never understood the Halo 2 rage myself. I quite like a good cliffhanger, I seem to remember that the bit before the cliffhanger was sutibly climatic to end the game (its been a while since I played, mind) and I came out of it wanting Halo 3 like now which I guess was the point.



I think the best/worst/whatthefuck ending goes to Starfox on the DS.

Spoiler:

Congratulations Fox! You've saved the universie. By the way, sorry Fox, but the girl of your dreams is now shagging a black dude.

I mean....the fuck!?

Fiatil

almighty_monkey wrote: »

I think the best/worst/whatthefuck ending goes to Starfox on the DS.

Spoiler:

Congratulations Fox! You've saved the universie. By the way, sorry Fox, but the girl of your dreams is now shagging a black dude.

I mean....the fuck!?

Haha yeah, Star Fox DS

Spoiler:

wins the award for most randomly depressing ending ever. I know there are all sorts of alternate endings, but that was just fantastic.

citizen059

Actually, I remember this one FPS I picked up years ago...

It was named "XS", and the plot involved some sort of interstellar deathmatch tournament with a huge prize that your friend told you about before he died. You'd get dropped into an arena and have to take on three enemies, all of you trying to be the one survivor. There was some crazy number of enemies you had to fight through, like 60 I think?

After winning the final match, you collect your prize money and return to your ship...

Spoiler:

...and your friend, supposedly dead, shoots you in the head, killing you and taking your money. Game Over.

D:

Mr Bubbles

I remember the game 'Mafia' as having one of my favorite downbeat endings

thejazzman

Kotor 2 and Fallout 3 spring to mind most readily, although tbh in fallout 3 I was really rushing to finish the game so I didn't care too much (I really loved it but I had let it sit unplayed for like 2 weeks and just wanted to burn through the last bit of the main story)

Neither of these bad ending made me hate the game, but with Kotor I was disappointing that by the final credits I knew I was not going to have it in my top 3 games of all time. Right up until the last 25% it was my game of the year, beat the shit out of kotor 1, best rpg since baldurs gate 2 etc etc, and the whole last section I was just like 'what have i been doing for 5 hours? Why am I here? When I beat the boss and everything I was just like. What? Why is this happening? What about the droids? Terribly sad.

Big Classy

Fiatil wrote: »

Burnage wrote: »

Djiem wrote: »

LewieP wrote: »

Heh, no one has said Fahrenheit/Indigo Prophecy yet.

Such a big shame.

Yes, this game is pretty much the most perfect example of an ending/endgame ruining what was pure awesome up to that point.

Spoiler:

The real ending of that game is when you die in the theme park.

Believing this makes the game so much better.

Yeah, I mean I can look back on the early parts of the game and remember them fondly, but that ending was just buhhh. I just don't understand why that would ever happen to a game so awesome up until that point. I love Fallout 3 and Kotor 2 with their fairly rushed endings, but this was something else entirely. It doesn't help that the game runs with it for a few hours and doesn't just give us a quick merciful end.

I remember playing it back in the day and thinking "What the fuck are these guys talking about!?". I never reached the BS midpoint. SO I picked it up again recently and I've gotten much further. I preferred not knowing D:

lodger

I will always love the ending to Shenmue II, from the climactic rooftop battle to the quiet "cool-down" epilogue, and even the cliffhanger finale. Epic, and infuriating, since it will probably never see the cliffhanger resolved.

Big Classy

Bad ending; True Crime: Streets of LA.
Its almost on the same level of crazy as Indigo Prophecy. Almost

Kyougu

I think an ending that actually heighten the overall game was Crisis Core's, and more specifically, the use of the DMW slot. Through out the game it's a system that I put up with, rarely paid attention to, and was at times annoyed with. Then..

Spoiler:

As you fight all the Shinra soldiers, the DMW starts spinning again, highlighting memories, and breaking up as you obviously start dying. It was a really effective way of highlighting that Zack was faltering and what he was going through.

Seriously, I love the crap out of that ending. I actually teared up, and that's with me knowing that it was coming.

Burnage

Fiatil wrote: »

Burnage wrote: »

Djiem wrote: »

LewieP wrote: »

Heh, no one has said Fahrenheit/Indigo Prophecy yet.

Such a big shame.

Yes, this game is pretty much the most perfect example of an ending/endgame ruining what was pure awesome up to that point.

Spoiler:

The real ending of that game is when you die in the theme park.

Believing this makes the game so much better.

Yeah, I mean I can look back on the early parts of the game and remember them fondly, but that ending was just buhhh. I just don't understand why that would ever happen to a game so awesome up until that point. I love Fallout 3 and Kotor 2 with their fairly rushed endings, but this was something else entirely. It doesn't help that the game runs with it for a few hours and doesn't just give us a quick merciful end.

Fahrenheit's got a case of KOTOR 2 syndrome, so I've heard. Development time got halved, or something ridiculous, so they had to throw the final bits together fairly quickly.

DaveTheWave

Planescape: Torment had an awesome ending but you could say Planescape: Torment had an awesome _____ and be right.

zanmatto

Big Isy wrote: »

Bad ending; True Crime: Streets of LA.
Its almost on the same level of crazy as Indigo Prophecy. Almost

I honestly think that whole game was just a massive parody. Like, it was a semi-sensible gta-clone until the last two levels, and then BAM ZOMBIE CHEFS, FLAME ELEMENTAL DRAGONS AND KOREAN GUYS THAT READ INPUTS IN FIGHTING GAMES

Vincent Grayson

DaveTheWave wrote: »

Planescape: Torment had an awesome ending but you could say Planescape: Torment had an awesome _____ and be right.

Torment had like, 4 or 5 awesome endings (although I guess technically they were all the same, but with different things leading up to them).

But yeah, Torment had a great ending after a great game...so there's no real issue there (save my strange inability to get the widescreen mod working)

Big Classy

zanmatto wrote: »

Big Isy wrote: »

Bad ending; True Crime: Streets of LA.
Its almost on the same level of crazy as Indigo Prophecy. Almost

I honestly think that whole game was just a massive parody. Like, it was a semi-sensible gta-clone until the last two levels, and then BAM ZOMBIE CHEFS, FLAME ELEMENTAL DRAGONS AND KOREAN GUYS THAT READ INPUTS IN FIGHTING GAMES

I'd agree if it weren't for the fact that it's only the last two or three missions that go completely batshit crazy.

Vincent Grayson

Big Isy wrote: »

zanmatto wrote: »

Big Isy wrote: »

Bad ending; True Crime: Streets of LA.
Its almost on the same level of crazy as Indigo Prophecy. Almost

I honestly think that whole game was just a massive parody. Like, it was a semi-sensible gta-clone until the last two levels, and then BAM ZOMBIE CHEFS, FLAME ELEMENTAL DRAGONS AND KOREAN GUYS THAT READ INPUTS IN FIGHTING GAMES

I'd agree if it weren't for the fact that it's only the last two or three missions that go completely batshit crazy.

IIRC, couldn't you easily get to those last two or three missions in only an hour or two if you made the right (or wrong, as it were) choices? I remember renting it and suddenly being at the end confused as to what the hell had happened to the rest of the game.

Lagnar

In Never Winter Nights (NWN) the last expansion, Hordes of the underdark (Usually called HoU) has a pretty sweet ending. Granted, HoU had a much better story than both NWN and the first expansion. HoU's boss fight was easy for me. Me and my brother set up a lan with a buddy of his, so the three of us had a pretty well full party. I was the meele charcter (Barbarian, bard, Red dragon deciple) my brother was the mage (straight 40 wizard) and his friend was a cleric fighter hybrid, not sure the exact on his build.

Spoliers for the fight for anyone who wants to know.

Spoiler:

My memeory is a litte rusty, so bear with me. Part way through HoU you are dead, kinda, you need to get your soul back if I remember right, after you do that you are near the end of the game. The boss is this huge ass demon who is roughly 4-5 stories high. Yes, alot of games have even bigger bosses, some the size of the planet or whatever but this boss was different. You could view the game over the shoulder but zoomed out alot, so your charcter would go up to his knee at most. I was a half orc, the tallest race and thats about were I stood on him. He would cast these crazy spells with us all pounding on him, man it was awsome. The actually ending I dont really remember but I tend to consider a boss fight the begning of the ending. And man was it an awsome fight.

I am yet to beat NWN 2 but my brother did, he didnt say much about the ending so id say it was fairly mediocre. One of these days I plan on playing through all of NWN 1 and its expansions, and then playing NWN 2 and the first expansion, all in a really short time spam.

The_Scarab

Broken Sword : The Sleeping Dragon.

Hey let's turn this already terrible entry in what was once a spectacular series into a complete mindfuck in the last 10 minutes by having you fight a real dragon with Excalibur on top of a ruined castle in Glastonbury.

Big Classy

Vincent Grayson wrote: »

Big Isy wrote: »

zanmatto wrote: »

Big Isy wrote: »

Bad ending; True Crime: Streets of LA.
Its almost on the same level of crazy as Indigo Prophecy. Almost

I honestly think that whole game was just a massive parody. Like, it was a semi-sensible gta-clone until the last two levels, and then BAM ZOMBIE CHEFS, FLAME ELEMENTAL DRAGONS AND KOREAN GUYS THAT READ INPUTS IN FIGHTING GAMES

I'd agree if it weren't for the fact that it's only the last two or three missions that go completely batshit crazy.

IIRC, couldn't you easily get to those last two or three missions in only an hour or two if you made the right (or wrong, as it were) choices? I remember renting it and suddenly being at the end confused as to what the hell had happened to the rest of the game.

Yeah it was only around 4 hours if you blitzed through it knowing where to go and how to deall with the situation at hand. But for me it was around 7 hours and I was pissed when I reached the OMG DRAGON NAKED LADIES AND OLD MAN FLYING bits.

edit: I don't mean old male genitalia when I say that last bit. Although, that would be hilarious

firewaterword

I never saw all the awful people refer to in Indigo Prophecy, primarily because I never got past that god awful stealth flashback thing. Jesus that was so awful. Everything before that was great too, which makes it all the worse.