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Ninja Gaiden 2: Sigma. It's out. PS3 only. Sixaxis jiggle woo!

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    SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    langfor6 wrote: »
    All of my friends who played this on 360 are uniformly pissed off about this game, saying that it is now ruined. Is there merit to this claim or are they just being asses?
    langfor6 wrote: »
    I think they were upset about the removal of blood and dismemberment specifically.

    It's a valid complaint--however, keep in mind, pretty much all complaints are subjective in nature anyway.

    A lot of things are ruined--the save system, item distribution, weapons upgrading, rewards for optional challenges--the last three are tied very closely together--all come out significantly worse. Collecting money, unless you are absolutely god-awful at the game and use a healing item in every single enemy encounter, is totally pointless on the first two difficulty modes.

    Honestly, if you don't like the additional characters (and how they handle) or don't enjoy the co-op...the game is going to be substantially worse. The loading times are not any shorter. The game has some artistic revisions, but on a 1080p setup, does not really look any better one way or the other.

    Finally, the issue of difficulty--if you relished NG2's difficulty, you might really hate Sigma 2 for the reason that it is 1) notably easier and 2) certain aspects of combat--specifically, ranged combat--are dumbed down. Conversely, if NG2 was too difficult or frustrating to you for reasons of combat difficulty, you might love Sigma 2.

    Me, I'm enjoying it, but that's because I like the new characters and am looking forward to co-op. And I really, really liked NG2. I still can't decide if it is better or not.

    Synthesis on
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    Rubix42Rubix42 Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    I get what your saying Synthesis, but really, all of that is kind of no big to me. I like the fountains of blood and limbs flying in NG2, but I also like the giant geyser's of color from this version, like a big ol OT bullseye for me.

    I'm gonna hold off complete judgment until I beat the game on MN and then do the co-op stuff. So far, they both have a reason to stay in my collection.

    Rubix42 on
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    SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Rubix42 wrote: »
    I get what your saying Synthesis, but really, all of that is kind of no big to me. I like the fountains of blood and limbs flying in NG2, but I also like the giant geyser's of color from this version, like a big ol OT bullseye for me.

    Ah, well, if you're not worried about those things, you're not worried about those things. :winky:

    Me, I'm a little sore about the weapon upgrades system. I'd be angrier at ranged combat, if it weren't for Rachel and her goddamn awesome HMG of doom. That changed my mind really quickly.

    I miss the blood spurts. To be honest, if they had to take out the blood spurts (I'm fairly convinced that they did it for technical, not artistic, reasons, because they did cause some slowdown in the Xbox version), I kind of wish they'd not have added the cheesy purple soul-smoke coming out too. And also fixed up the cinematics that don't work unless you can see blood.

    On the other hand, I really like Co-op with an AI partner, and I think I'll like it even more with living ones.
    I'm gonna hold off complete judgment until I beat the game on MN and then do the co-op stuff. So far, they both have a reason to stay in my collection.

    Yeah, that's a sound idea.

    Synthesis on
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    TransporterTransporter Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Page- wrote: »
    It's probably just because you had to play against a lot of Jann Lee, but there are far worse characters to play against. His catch throw was really good, but easy enough to get out of (low hold will prevent another catch throw, all highs, and throws), his juggles were really good as well, but all depended on extremely obvious and extremely high launchers, and that's about the worst he had.

    Leon had a sweep that went under mids and so many ways to set up easy combos. Plus, really good throw damage. Ein could easily win with 5 moves, each being better than all of Jann Lee's combined. Gen Fu could win in 2 combos, both set up with his ridiculous stagger throw, which did more damage than Jann Lee's catch throw and had way better mix-up options afterwards. Bass could punish for more than half life and had an amazing staple combos that they got rid of in 3 and 4 (making him balls). Lei Fang had those stupid soft holds and monster combos (though harder to do than most).

    I would put Gen-Fu, Ein, Lei Fang, Kasumi, Ayane, and probably Bass above Jann Lee in the annoying or overpowered categories.

    No offline co-op. You can play Team Mission mode, but with an AI partner.

    Oh god DOAU2 talk. I was the number two Kasumi in the world at one point, SO MANY WASTED HOURS. Ein Kas and Hyabusa were all most definatley god tier. Ayane was some sort of stupid broke invincible tier. And then there was Tengu.

    However, as far as a tournament goes, if you wern't prepared for a teleport spamming mind raping Kas(It was so goddamn broke in 2U, teleporting ALL mids and High's, reguardless of P or K) she was pretty much invincible, considering she was a great deal faster then pretty much every character in the game and there were very very VERY little low options for most characters.

    Good times, good times.

    Transporter on
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    Page-Page- Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    That's HC, not Ultimate. I never had an xbox.

    But Lei Fang and Gen-Fu had soft counters like Kasumi, just nothing guaranteed after.

    One thing I will never understand is why they took out the guaranteed options after certain holds in DOA4. It made some characters fucking useless. Like Jann Lee's mid punch reversal: in DOA2 he recovers crouching and you get a 100% guaranteed 46+P for damage comparable to every other mid punch reversal. By the time DOA4 was out he gets nothing but a slight frame advantage, so you can mid punch for free against him because he can't do fuck all to stop you.

    Who thought that was a good idea?

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    TransporterTransporter Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Page- wrote: »
    That's HC, not Ultimate. I never had an xbox.

    But Lei Fang and Gen-Fu had soft counters like Kasumi, just nothing guaranteed after.

    One thing I will never understand is why they took out the guaranteed options after certain holds in DOA4. It made some characters fucking useless. Like Jann Lee's mid punch reversal: in DOA2 he recovers crouching and you get a 100% guaranteed 46+P for damage comparable to every other mid punch reversal. By the time DOA4 was out he gets nothing but a slight frame advantage, so you can mid punch for free against him because he can't do fuck all to stop you.

    Who thought that was a good idea?

    You could argue that it gives him a good amount of mix-up opprotunities after it, for "potentially" more damage then the 46P, but it's still lame against top tiers like the holy Hayate/Hyabusa/Kas, and 9000% less badass.

    I had mixed feelings about 4. It did alot of good(Kasumi/Ayane nerfs, helena buffs, Hitomi buffs, ground blows ect) and then a shitton of what the fuck(Nerfing the shit out of Jan, Bass, hell, everyone who wasn't a Ninja or in the main storyline).

    But it had Christie and her stripper ending so all is forgiven.

    Transporter on
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    SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Page- wrote: »
    That's HC, not Ultimate. I never had an xbox.

    But Lei Fang and Gen-Fu had soft counters like Kasumi, just nothing guaranteed after.

    One thing I will never understand is why they took out the guaranteed options after certain holds in DOA4. It made some characters fucking useless. Like Jann Lee's mid punch reversal: in DOA2 he recovers crouching and you get a 100% guaranteed 46+P for damage comparable to every other mid punch reversal. By the time DOA4 was out he gets nothing but a slight frame advantage, so you can mid punch for free against him because he can't do fuck all to stop you.

    Who thought that was a good idea?

    You could argue that it gives him a good amount of mix-up opprotunities after it, for "potentially" more damage then the 46P, but it's still lame against top tiers like the holy Hayate/Hyabusa/Kas, and 9000% less badass.

    I had mixed feelings about 4. It did alot of good(Kasumi/Ayane nerfs, helena buffs, Hitomi buffs, ground blows ect) and then a shitton of what the fuck(Nerfing the shit out of Jan, Bass, hell, everyone who wasn't a Ninja or in the main storyline).

    Jan Lee deserved said nerfing. God knows Hayabusa could have used it too, but nerfing at least one and ignoring one is better than ignoring both.

    It had Brad Wong's crazy-ass narcotics trip, so it's good anyway.

    Synthesis on
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    sabyulsabyul Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    DOA4 Ayane was still really good...

    ontopic edit: saw some gameplay of NG2S and to my great shock, guillotine into wall is no longer instant cap. xxyby still seems to work though. I'd assume that Lunar air xy and claw FS>izuna and other easy mode combos got nerfed too, if the guillotine clutch got nerfed.

    Interesting that the game is allegedly easier though.

    sabyul on
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    Professor SnugglesworthProfessor Snugglesworth Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Godfather wrote: »
    Looks like players have trouble aiming in this game

    51327__468x_ninja-gaiden-sigma-2-sexy-ayana-ninja-action-2.jpg

    I find it hilarious that in the world of DOA/NG, she would probably considered "small-breasted".

    Professor Snugglesworth on
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    Rubix42Rubix42 Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    sabyul wrote: »
    ontopic edit: saw some gameplay of NG2S and to my great shock, guillotine into wall is no longer instant cap. xxyby still seems to work though. I'd assume that Lunar air xy and claw FS>izuna and other easy mode combos got nerfed too, if the guillotine clutch got nerfed.

    Interesting that the game is allegedly easier though.

    Guillotine is not an instant kill against a wall now, they made some enemies "tougher" to make up for the fact that they send fewer at you at once. That being said, fewer enemies at once makes the game much easier.

    Lunar air izuna and claws FS->Izuna both still work. In a surprise move, izuna kills just about every standard enemy now, and almost every weapon has an izuna combo, I think just the scythe is missing, but I don't use the scythe on izuna enemies. Outside of that, the bosses telegraph their moves longer now, so it is much easier to dodge them and counter attack. Certain "oh crap" moments in the xbox version got nerfed and easier. The temple stairs is not the epicness it once was at all.

    Rubix42 on
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    sabyulsabyul Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Wow interesting info. If all izunas 1shot normal sized enemies, I imagine the game is easy mode with claw / lunar...

    Did they adjust the Genshin boss fight at all? He's definitely my favorite boss, but >X combo from claw makes him such a bitch, hahahaha

    sabyul on
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    SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    sabyul wrote: »
    Wow interesting info. If all izunas 1shot normal sized enemies, I imagine the game is easy mode with claw / lunar...

    Did they adjust the Genshin boss fight at all? He's definitely my favorite boss, but >X combo from claw makes him such a bitch, hahahaha

    He's still extremely reliably killable with the lunar staff.

    Though, in my personal opinion, I think the Genshin fight(s) are more fun this time around. Maybe because instead of just flying swallowing you, he relies more on his black-hole ninpo.

    Synthesis on
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    Rubix42Rubix42 Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Well, Genshin is a lot more fun to fight now that you can pull an Izuna on him too.

    @sabyul--On warrior, you don't even need to resort to such things as claw/lunar ID to proceed. I've been successful with every weapon. Even the tonfa. I never did well with the tonfa in NG2, but it's now my favorite weapon. Limb demolishing machines

    Rubix42 on
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    SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Rubix42 wrote: »
    Well, Genshin is a lot more fun to fight now that you can pull an Izuna on him too.

    Damn. I should have tried that. I think the next Genshin fight won't let me though.

    Synthesis on
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    Page-Page- Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    But Jann Lee was never better than a solid GOOD. There was no reason to nerf him compared to almost every other character on the roster.

    Plus, ninjas are zzz.

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    SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Page- wrote: »
    But Jann Lee was never better than a solid GOOD. There was no reason to nerf him compared to almost every other character on the roster.

    Plus, ninjas are zzz.

    Bruce Lee is awesome. Bruce Lee wannabes are zzz.

    And Jan Lee had ridiculously overpowered punches that he could put out with ridiculous, near-Hayabusa speed.
    I'm at Moscow, and I'm a little surprised I haven't played as Ayane yet, given her demo was in the Aqua City. She's probably immediately after the Moscow sections.

    Synthesis on
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    Rubix42Rubix42 Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Synthesis wrote: »
    Rubix42 wrote: »
    Well, Genshin is a lot more fun to fight now that you can pull an Izuna on him too.

    Damn. I should have tried that. I think the next Genshin fight won't let me though.

    Some more info on when you can ID him. Spoiler for people who don't know the sequence of events.
    You can ID him on the top of Fuji, I will know tonight whether you can or not in the final fight against him

    Rubix42 on
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    sabyulsabyul Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Catch throw into wall in DOA3 was pretty delicious stuff though. I think Jann coudl have benefited a lot from weighing more, but things like guaranteed option after catch, sway jab, other good pokes, 22_88k, and great movement make him pretty damn good I think.

    I mean i don't think he was top tier, but he can definitely win.

    sabyul on
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    sabyulsabyul Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Rubix42 wrote: »
    Well, Genshin is a lot more fun to fight now that you can pull an Izuna on him too.

    @sabyul--On warrior, you don't even need to resort to such things as claw/lunar ID to proceed. I've been successful with every weapon. Even the tonfa. I never did well with the tonfa in NG2, but it's now my favorite weapon. Limb demolishing machines

    Dude the Tonfa have the best UT in the game no joke imo, or at least in NG2 vanilla. Retarded active frames, insane range and damage, and directable to kill enough baddies to do another OL UT after it finishes.

    I think the doubles have more damage overall, but Tonfa UT is just soooooooo versatile.

    sabyul on
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    Page-Page- Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Never played 3. But his major weakness was that all his launchers were obvious highs. Sure, his juggles were pretty good (pp6p, 6k46k = $$$), and his low kick reversal was too much fun, but he needed a backstagger if he were ever to do real damage.

    Now, his catch throw was a little over the top in DOA2, but by HC it had been fixed to push out enough to be completely fair. And again, low reversal > catch throws.

    Now, if we can talk about the mystery that was the Bass nerfs. Why would you take away his good staple combos? P+K, 6kp was not imba to any degree. :/

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    sabyulsabyul Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Ahh, never playing 3 is why you look down on Jann.

    catch throw -> guaranteed 66k -> wallsplat -> guaranteed 7k -> juggle.

    It was obscene! It's true that 1F beats 6f+P but let's be real 1F beats looots of stuff in the doa series lol.

    sabyul on
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    Page-Page- Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    True, low holds were lol. They cut out like half or more of their options in any given situation. It was probably my biggest problem with the hold system by the end.

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    sabyulsabyul Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    If 1F was not tech crouch and had the same recovery as all the other DHs, I'd probably still be playing DOA. Although I can see its flaws, I freakin love those games. DOA2U was my favorite =) WHALE STAGE

    Hey can anyone that knows what I"m talking about test if you can custom combo with whiff DS OT in sigma still? I didnt' really like Sigma 1 that much, but I will give it the honor of really bringing freestyle combo play into the NG series. I wonder if Sigma2 is doing the same.

    sabyul on
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    SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Page- wrote: »
    Never played 3. But his major weakness was that all his launchers were obvious highs. Sure, his juggles were pretty good (pp6p, 6k46k = $$$), and his low kick reversal was too much fun, but he needed a backstagger if he were ever to do real damage.

    Now, his catch throw was a little over the top in DOA2, but by HC it had been fixed to push out enough to be completely fair. And again, low reversal > catch throws.

    Now, if we can talk about the mystery that was the Bass nerfs. Why would you take away his good staple combos? P+K, 6kp was not imba to any degree. :/

    DOA3 was fun a lot of fun (not to mention graphically gorgeous). I think you missed out, but that's just me.

    To be honest, I don't think Bass was anywhere near as cheap as Jan Lee was, so I don't think nerfing him was entirely necessarily. He was one of the characters who got patched shortly after DOA4's release. Then again, I never played him.

    Synthesis on
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    sabyulsabyul Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Synthesis wrote: »
    Page- wrote: »
    Never played 3. But his major weakness was that all his launchers were obvious highs. Sure, his juggles were pretty good (pp6p, 6k46k = $$$), and his low kick reversal was too much fun, but he needed a backstagger if he were ever to do real damage.

    Now, his catch throw was a little over the top in DOA2, but by HC it had been fixed to push out enough to be completely fair. And again, low reversal > catch throws.

    Now, if we can talk about the mystery that was the Bass nerfs. Why would you take away his good staple combos? P+K, 6kp was not imba to any degree. :/

    DOA3 was fun a lot of fun (not to mention graphically gorgeous). I think you missed out, but that's just me.

    To be honest, I don't think Bass was anywhere near as cheap as Jan Lee was, so I don't think nerfing him was entirely necessarily. He was one of the characters who got patched shortly after DOA4's release. Then again, I never played him.

    dude oh my god Bass was so good in DOA3. I don't like DOA3 nearly at all, but I just love that for once a fatty was great in the DOA series (although Leon was lotsss of fun in DOAU).

    Taking away guaranteed ground throws in 4 = sadface. I had to go back to Ayane because she's almost always so godly.

    sabyul on
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    SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    sabyul wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote: »
    Page- wrote: »
    Never played 3. But his major weakness was that all his launchers were obvious highs. Sure, his juggles were pretty good (pp6p, 6k46k = $$$), and his low kick reversal was too much fun, but he needed a backstagger if he were ever to do real damage.

    Now, his catch throw was a little over the top in DOA2, but by HC it had been fixed to push out enough to be completely fair. And again, low reversal > catch throws.

    Now, if we can talk about the mystery that was the Bass nerfs. Why would you take away his good staple combos? P+K, 6kp was not imba to any degree. :/

    DOA3 was fun a lot of fun (not to mention graphically gorgeous). I think you missed out, but that's just me.

    To be honest, I don't think Bass was anywhere near as cheap as Jan Lee was, so I don't think nerfing him was entirely necessarily. He was one of the characters who got patched shortly after DOA4's release. Then again, I never played him.

    dude oh my god Bass was so good in DOA3. I don't like DOA3 nearly at all, but I just love that for once a fatty was great in the DOA series (although Leon was lotsss of fun in DOAU).

    Taking away guaranteed ground throws in 4 = sadface. I had to go back to Ayane because she's almost always so godly.

    Should have clarified. I meant in DOA4.

    Synthesis on
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    Page-Page- Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    In DOA2 Bass has basically 3 good moves and 1 good combo.

    But they were REALLY GOOD.

    He wasn't Gen-Fu, but he could easily win. Most every character was good enough in DOA2. I'd put Tina and Zack at the bottom, but they were both still really good. Tina gets less points for being the most boring character ever, though.

    Make low holds not crouch, change combo throws, and add in some throw escapes. The games could be actually good instead of just fun.

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    SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Having non-shitty four-player support and multi-tiered environments was enough to make the game good in my estimation.

    After DOA2, every time I played a fighting game, even a very good one, with the same small, polygonal stages with either walls or water o' doom at the edge, I would think "You know, I wish I could throw my opponent down there and continue."

    I still do.

    Synthesis on
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    sabyulsabyul Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Yeah I love DOA for having the best stages and maintaining ANY kind of tag-team mode and 4 -player support when the rest of hte games out there don't even bother. Not to mention a great replay system that puts both BB and SF4 to absolute shame.

    sabyul on
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    SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Though if you only played DOA: Hardcore on the PS2, you were basically screwed because, well, nobody owned a multitap.

    I mean, I knew several people who owned PS2s. I personally owned 3 (not by choice, they kept dying). I know a guy who, and I'm not exaggerating, I think owns between 180 and 200 PS2 games (he has this weird rule of not ever getting rid of a game, no matter how bad it is). Even he didn't have a multitap. I cannot say, in good faith, that multitaps existed. It could just be a very clever lie on the part of Sony.

    If you had it on DC, you were good though. Same goes for Xbox and Xbox 360.

    Synthesis on
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    sabyulsabyul Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Shame, too, since DOA2HC had the best tag team play in any DOA game. I adored 66f+P+K and 4F+P+K 12 frame tag throws (rather than 5 frame easy mode nonsense in the games afterward) in additino to at aleast a couple nice stages to wage battle in.

    My friend with the PS2 and DOA had a multitap :)

    sabyul on
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    SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    I dunno....I'm tempted to give it to DOA3. However, given how little I played DOA:HC's tag-team matches (for starters, I only had it on DC, and then again, nobody owned a multitap) I can't say for certain.

    Synthesis on
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    Page-Page- Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Harcdore's tag mode was the best tag mode in any fighting game ever.

    However, finding 4 players competent enough to make 2 even tag teams was a true feat. We never bothered, though I do own a mutlitap.

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    Professor SnugglesworthProfessor Snugglesworth Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    I'm definitely going to try the co-op tonight, about an hour and a half/two hours from now.

    For those interested, send me a friend invite or tell me your name here.

    Professor Snugglesworth on
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    SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    I'm definitely going to try the co-op tonight, about an hour and a half/two hours from now.

    For those interested, send me a friend invite or tell me your name here.

    I'm up for that. I'll probably be done with firefight by then, and I've unlocked three of the characters.

    Synthesis on
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    Professor SnugglesworthProfessor Snugglesworth Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Alright, in the game now.

    Professor Snugglesworth on
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    SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Excellent, just wrapped up nearly being a big goddamn hero in FF in ODST. Will log in.

    This is going to be tricky without headsets though...

    EDIT: I think I sent you an invite. "Let's be ninjas" is the default message, I swear. I'm beginning to realize why I prefer XBL to PSN...

    And man, is the lag awful.

    Synthesis on
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    GodfatherGodfather Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Page- wrote: »
    In DOA2 Bass has basically 3 good moves and 1 good combo.

    But they were REALLY GOOD.

    He wasn't Gen-Fu, but he could easily win. Most every character was good enough in DOA2. I'd put Tina and Zack at the bottom, but they were both still really good. Tina gets less points for being the most boring character ever, though.
    tina-doa-xtreme-beach-volleyball.jpg

    You made your sell Itagaki

    Godfather on
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    Professor SnugglesworthProfessor Snugglesworth Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    I swear PSN needs to make it easier to invite or join people's games. I'm not used to inviting from within each individual game, why can't it just be universal?

    Professor Snugglesworth on
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    Professor SnugglesworthProfessor Snugglesworth Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Synthesis, here's what you should check on.

    1. First, do an internet connection test on the XMB, which will tell you what NAT you are. If it's not 1 or 2, then google up a guide on how to fix that. 2 is usually the default option, while 3 means you're behind a firewall or something.

    2. For your headset, first pick the option to register bluetooth device, and have the PS3 scan it. Once that's saved, go to accessory settings and pick your headset as the input device (also turn volume up to 5).

    I'm going to do some other battles to see if the problem is on my end. I have NAT2 so I shouldn't be getting lag. Unless NG2's co-op is currently laggy for everyone.

    Professor Snugglesworth on
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