Vanilla Forums has been nominated for a second time in the CMS Critic "Critic's Choice" awards, and we need your vote! Read more here, and then do the thing (please).
Our new Indie Games subforum is now open for business in G&T. Go and check it out, you might land a code for a free game. If you're developing an indie game and want to post about it, follow these directions. If you don't, he'll break your legs! Hahaha! Seriously though.
Our rules have been updated and given their own forum. Go and look at them! They are nice, and there may be new ones that you didn't know about! Hooray for rules! Hooray for The System! Hooray for Conforming!

Has the Wii bubble burst?

1246710

Posts

  • PancakePancake Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    FyreWulff wrote: »
    That article describes the bubble burst as nothing more than supply catching up with demand.

    That's an extremely weak position for any number of reasons, not the least of which is that shit maybe nintendo motherfuckin built more factories.

    I mean shit man wouldn't you.

    I wish I could link you to it, but someone explained how Nintendo building more factories would actually be a stupid move on their part and economics makes it cheaper for them (and us) to keep the factories they're already using.

    So, what, they stopped producing Nintendodogs in such massive quantities and that ironed everything out?

    wAgWt.jpg
  • FyreWulffFyreWulff Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited March 2009
    Pancake wrote: »
    FyreWulff wrote: »
    That article describes the bubble burst as nothing more than supply catching up with demand.

    That's an extremely weak position for any number of reasons, not the least of which is that shit maybe nintendo motherfuckin built more factories.

    I mean shit man wouldn't you.

    I wish I could link you to it, but someone explained how Nintendo building more factories would actually be a stupid move on their part and economics makes it cheaper for them (and us) to keep the factories they're already using.

    So, what, they stopped producing Nintendodogs in such massive quantities and that ironed everything out?

    No, you see building more factories to meet demand is stupid, because once you meet demand now you have to pay for two factories working at half of what they were doing than one going full tilt.


    It's kind of like, I could ship goods across Omaha using a semi truck

    My orders fill the truck to capacity, and it makes it's trips on time, but some people have to wait for me to fill the truck up again.

    However, the demand will eventually even out with supply and I'll be able pack less in the truck but continue to sell it all through.

    If I bought another truck to meet the demand, after the demand evened out I would have to fill half of each truck to justify using both of them, which is a waste of money when I could just have one at near-capacity.

  • elkataselkatas Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    FyreWulff wrote: »
    No, you see building more factories to meet demand is stupid, because once you meet demand now you have to pay for two factories working at half of what they were doing than one going full tilt.

    Indeed. And imagine how much it did cost to make that production line on first place.

    Hypnotically inclined.
  • RainbowDespairRainbowDespair Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    FyreWulff wrote: »
    I also am not being cute. I own like 5 360 games (forgot about ultimate alliance, which to be fair, I bought because the wii version blows). I own way more wii games, and am in general very pleased with the system. The 360 currently gets more play right now, but that is solely due to rock band.

    360 top 10 on live last week (remember, I only own a 360)

    1 Halo 3 (shooter, 2 year old game, franchise)
    2 Call of Duty: WaW (shooter, sequel to game that came out 2 years ago, franchise)
    3 Call of Duty 4 (shooter, 2 year old game, franchise)
    4 Gears of War 2 (shooter, sequel, franchise)
    5 GTA IV (shooting, sequel, franchise)
    6 RESIDENT EVIL 5 (shooting, sequel, franchise)
    7 Halo Wars (based off a shooter, franchise game)
    8 Left 4 Dead (shooting, new game)
    9 FIFA 09 (shooting takes place, sequel, franchise)
    10 STREET FIGHTER IV (fighting, sequel, franchise)

    Out of that least, Left 4 Dead is the only game that isn't a franchise or a sequel. And only two don't focus around shooting guns.

    One. Brand. New. Game.

    And only 2 of them are not third party games (Wars and Halo 3)

    That's pretty misleading. That list is obviously going to skew towards games with high replay value since those are the games that people play week after week (single player games might show up at launch, but then they inevitably disappear). Multiplayer oriented games tend to have higher replay value and as luck would have it, every single game on that list has a strong multiplayer component.

    Let's take a look at another top 10 chart for last week:

    Top Arcade Titles (Full Versions purchased)

    1 Peggle
    2 CRYSTAL DEFENDERS
    3 Castle Crashers
    4 Watchmen: The End is Nigh
    5 NCAA Basketball 09 March Madness Edition
    6 Worms
    7 UNO
    8 3 on 3 NHL Arcade
    9 A Kingdom for Keflings
    10 Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3

    So you've got a pachinko game, a tower defense game, 2 brawlers, 2 sports games, a turn based strategy game, a card game, a sandbox game, and a fighting game. Looks like a good amount of variety to me.

    Personally, I think all of the systems are doing fine when it comes to games. There's good stuff on each system, there's a good amount of variety for each system, and there are good games coming out in the future for each system.

  • SirUltimosSirUltimos Don't talk, Rusty. Just paint. Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Getting back to the topic, what exactly would everyone here define as the bubble bursting? I'm not entirely sure myself, but it definitely would not be supply catching up with demand. I think the Wii bubble bursting would be more defined by seeing sales figures for any given month being lower than the average for that time of year (rather than WAY above average) and having that either continue or drop further in the subsequent months.

  • KazhiimKazhiim __BANNED USERS
    edited March 2009
    old people who think wii fit is proper exercise will single-handedly keep the wii bubble inflated for years to come

    lost_sig2.png
  • FyreWulffFyreWulff Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited March 2009
    FyreWulff wrote: »
    I also am not being cute. I own like 5 360 games (forgot about ultimate alliance, which to be fair, I bought because the wii version blows). I own way more wii games, and am in general very pleased with the system. The 360 currently gets more play right now, but that is solely due to rock band.

    360 top 10 on live last week (remember, I only own a 360)

    1 Halo 3 (shooter, 2 year old game, franchise)
    2 Call of Duty: WaW (shooter, sequel to game that came out 2 years ago, franchise)
    3 Call of Duty 4 (shooter, 2 year old game, franchise)
    4 Gears of War 2 (shooter, sequel, franchise)
    5 GTA IV (shooting, sequel, franchise)
    6 RESIDENT EVIL 5 (shooting, sequel, franchise)
    7 Halo Wars (based off a shooter, franchise game)
    8 Left 4 Dead (shooting, new game)
    9 FIFA 09 (shooting takes place, sequel, franchise)
    10 STREET FIGHTER IV (fighting, sequel, franchise)

    Out of that least, Left 4 Dead is the only game that isn't a franchise or a sequel. And only two don't focus around shooting guns.

    One. Brand. New. Game.

    And only 2 of them are not third party games (Wars and Halo 3)

    That's pretty misleading. That list is obviously going to skew towards games with high replay value since those are the games that people play week after week (single player games might show up at launch, but then they inevitably disappear). Multiplayer oriented games tend to have higher replay value and as luck would have it, every single game on that list has a strong multiplayer component.

    the top 10 is based off people that turned their 360 on with a game in it, and the 360 had enough time to report the game being played, no matter if you just sat at the main menu in Halo 3 or just did a quick round of leveling in Tales of Vesperia.

    It's very telling.. if you like shooters, you're going to like the 360. Don't like them though, and you're SOL.

  • JCRooksJCRooks Registered User
    edited March 2009
    elkatas wrote: »
    JCRooks wrote: »
    Totally agree. One of the biggest problems is that we're dealing with stuff that's so subjective..

    Original question isn't really. We have pretty good picture how things currently are. Wii is doing better than before in USA and Europe, but it has fell of victim of handhelds in Japan, like every other homeconsole. That is how I would summarize it.

    Yeah, I think the original question/article was fairly sound. The problem is that it's too easy for the conversation to devolve into list wars and why-my-system-is-better-than-yours flame fests. Then there's also the problem that "bubble burst" has a very negative connotation, especially in this day and age where things like tech and housing bubbles are very fresh on many people's minds.

    Frankly, we know that every system has to have a point where it peaks out. That's just how sales works. They can't go up forever! Unfortunately it's not always clear when this actually happens and why it does. I'm sure lots of folks want to point to "crappy games" as the reason. Sure, maybe? Or it might be, as you put it, handheld gaming just being vastly more popular in Japan these days. Maybe a combination of all of the above? Then folks want to bring the 360/PS3 into the picture and point out that the Wii is still outselling them, which is true, but I don't know if it's exactly relevant to whether or not the Wii is past its peak. (Unless folks think that those consoles are the reason for it going down?)

    Xbox LIVE, Steam, Twitter, etc. ...
    Spoiler:
  • JCRooksJCRooks Registered User
    edited March 2009
    FyreWulff wrote: »
    the top 10 is based off people that turned their 360 on with a game in it, and the 360 had enough time to report the game being played, no matter if you just sat at the main menu in Halo 3 or just did a quick round of leveling in Tales of Vesperia.

    It's very telling.. if you like shooters, you're going to like the 360. Don't like them though, and you're SOL.

    Ugh, I will probably regret being dragged into this but I can't help it.

    The list you quote has to do with Xbox LIVE activity. So naturally multiplayer games are going to be at the top there. Single-player games, nope. Folks shouldn't be using it to gauge general popularity of games to the platform, but only for Xbox LIVE as a whole.

    Furthermore, are folks really still trying to pigeon-hole the 360 as a shooter-only box? You'd think that with all of the RPGs the system has been getting that this would have ended days ago. The library is a lot more diverse than you might think. Even if you assume that the list is "most popular" games, that doesn't mean someone is "SOL" if they don't like shooters. I've gotten pretty tired of FPS and shooters over the past few years, but there's still a ton of games in my 360 backlog that are of the JRPG variety, for example.

    Xbox LIVE, Steam, Twitter, etc. ...
    Spoiler:
  • MorninglordMorninglord Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Xagarath wrote: »
    Xagarath wrote: »
    Had the Wii no games other than Mario Galaxy, it'd still be justified as a console, at least to me.

    Just as long as you are aware this is a very extreme opinion you have and don't try to force it onto others which you have been close to doing in the past.
    That is fine.
    Oh for crying out loud my phrasing should surely indicate such
    and who is forcing opinions here anyway? It's dangerously close to being you.

    I don't trust you about nintendo, phrasing or not. So I like to check.

    Incidentally, I was saying I do the same thing which you seemed to want to ignore. You are extremely defensive hey.

    My Dark Souls 2 Diary Day 6 and 7 Updated
    (PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
  • RainbowDespairRainbowDespair Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    FyreWulff wrote: »
    the top 10 is based off people that turned their 360 on with a game in it, and the 360 had enough time to report the game being played, no matter if you just sat at the main menu in Halo 3 or just did a quick round of leveling in Tales of Vesperia.

    True, but how do people play primarily 1 player games? Generally, they play them a bunch when they first get the game and then they either beat the game or grow tired of it and don't touch it (or even sell it off). Compare that to a multiplayer game where once a person is hooked, they continue to play it week after week after week.
    It's very telling.. if you like shooters, you're going to like the 360. Don't like them though, and you're SOL.

    That's complete BS. My favorite game genres are RPGs, Strategy games, and tough as nails arcade-style games. The 360 has got me covered: it has more RPGs than either the Wii or PS3, Civilization Revolution covers my strategy cravings (fantastic game in multiplayer), and XBLA has a gazillion quality arcade-style games.

    I really wish the meme that the 360 only has shooters & the Wii only has shovelware/party games would go away since neither is true.

  • FyreWulffFyreWulff Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited March 2009
    JCRooks wrote: »
    FyreWulff wrote: »
    the top 10 is based off people that turned their 360 on with a game in it, and the 360 had enough time to report the game being played, no matter if you just sat at the main menu in Halo 3 or just did a quick round of leveling in Tales of Vesperia.

    It's very telling.. if you like shooters, you're going to like the 360. Don't like them though, and you're SOL.

    Ugh, I will probably regret being dragged into this but I can't help it.

    The list you quote has to do with Xbox LIVE activity. So naturally multiplayer games are going to be at the top there. Single-player games, nope. Folks shouldn't be using it to gauge general popularity of games to the platform, but only for Xbox LIVE as a whole.

    Furthermore, are folks really still trying to pigeon-hole the 360 as a shooter-only box? You'd think that with all of the RPGs the system has been getting that this would have ended days ago. The library is a lot more diverse than you might think. Even if you assume that the list is "most popular" games, that doesn't mean someone is "SOL" if they don't like shooters. I've gotten pretty tired of FPS and shooters over the past few years, but there's still a ton of games in my 360 backlog that are of the JRPG variety, for example.

    You missed what I said.

    You don't even have to be playing multiplayer on a game. You just have to let the 360 report that you were playing a game to their servers at some point. Doesn't matter how long people played it, they just had be connected to Live at some point. So if I load up Halo 3 and CoD4 in the same day for 1 minute, they'll both get a 'point' off me.

    However, the Live Arcade titles are based off full versions purchased, not activity. The XBLA list changes a lot more due to this.

    I only own a 360 and yes, it's a shooter box. The N64 was also a shooter box. There isn't anything wrong with that, it's a safe market now.

  • ScottyScotty Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    I have a Wii and a PS3...the only games I have for the Wii are Rayman Raving Rabids, Endless Ocean, and Wii Fit.
    Wii fit is what the system is used for primarily, and I have some VC games. I don't know...the PS3 definitely gets the most attention in my home.

  • XagarathXagarath Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Xagarath wrote: »
    Xagarath wrote: »
    Had the Wii no games other than Mario Galaxy, it'd still be justified as a console, at least to me.

    Just as long as you are aware this is a very extreme opinion you have and don't try to force it onto others which you have been close to doing in the past.
    That is fine.
    Oh for crying out loud my phrasing should surely indicate such
    and who is forcing opinions here anyway? It's dangerously close to being you.

    I don't trust you, phrasing or not.
    I am clearly lost without your trust.

    I'm not even sure what you're trying to do here.

    For the record: I have close to no nintendo fandom at all, just a strong natural tendency towards devil's advocacy, especially where people are being rankly idiotic all over a thread.

  • KazhiimKazhiim __BANNED USERS
    edited March 2009
    Kazhiim wrote: »
    old people who think wii fit is proper exercise will single-handedly keep the wii bubble inflated for years to come

    I say single-handedly because everybody else knows by now that the wii is trash

    lost_sig2.png
  • JCRooksJCRooks Registered User
    edited March 2009
    I really wish the meme that the 360 only has shooters & the Wii only has shovelware/party games would go away since neither is true.
    Limed for frakking truth.

    Anyway, even we assume that the LIVE activity is a general measure of popularity (and I still disagree it's not), just because something is "popular" doesn't mean that other things don't exist.

    I've spent waaaaay too much time playing, and finally beating, the Last Remnant yesterday on my 360. I'm debating whether or not I should pick up the "Lost and Damned" DLC, or dive into one of the many Arcade games that I've bought but haven't played through yet ... or pick up Star Ocean 4, or Tales of Vesperia. I don't seem very SOL, even though I don't play shooters anymore ...

    Xbox LIVE, Steam, Twitter, etc. ...
    Spoiler:
  • MorninglordMorninglord Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Xagarath wrote: »
    Xagarath wrote: »
    Xagarath wrote: »
    Had the Wii no games other than Mario Galaxy, it'd still be justified as a console, at least to me.

    Just as long as you are aware this is a very extreme opinion you have and don't try to force it onto others which you have been close to doing in the past.
    That is fine.
    Oh for crying out loud my phrasing should surely indicate such
    and who is forcing opinions here anyway? It's dangerously close to being you.

    I don't trust you, phrasing or not.
    I am clearly lost without your trust.

    I'm not even sure what you're trying to do here other than come across as overbearing.

    Well, I could see that someone would take what you said and treat it as if you made a generalised statement that the wii was justified all by itself. Opinions being what they are, this would have created a giant flame war. So I stepped in to ask for a clarification. I'm fine with you being angry about that.

    My Dark Souls 2 Diary Day 6 and 7 Updated
    (PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
  • XagarathXagarath Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Xagarath wrote: »
    Xagarath wrote: »
    Xagarath wrote: »
    Had the Wii no games other than Mario Galaxy, it'd still be justified as a console, at least to me.

    Just as long as you are aware this is a very extreme opinion you have and don't try to force it onto others which you have been close to doing in the past.
    That is fine.
    Oh for crying out loud my phrasing should surely indicate such
    and who is forcing opinions here anyway? It's dangerously close to being you.

    I don't trust you, phrasing or not.
    I am clearly lost without your trust.

    I'm not even sure what you're trying to do here other than come across as overbearing.

    Well, I could see that someone would take what you said and treat it as if you made a generalised statement that the wii was justified all by itself. Opinions being what they are, this would have created a giant flame war. So I stepped in to ask for a clarification. I'm fine with you being angry about that.
    Said mild irritation might have been averted had you adopted any tone other than overwhelming arrogance.
    As it is, all you're accomplishing is to denigrate yourself.
    Honestly, I'll take flaming over that kind of cack-handed attempt at interventionism.

  • MorninglordMorninglord Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Xagarath wrote: »
    Said mild irritation might have been averted had you adopted any tone other than overwhelming arrogance.
    As it is, all you're accomplishing is to denigrate yourself.

    As I said, I'm fine with that. I'm always going to sound arrogant, I really rarely am. I'm not particularly good with words, so I just say them. I'm resigned to the consequences of them.

    Anyway, I've clarified this and now we are just going into stuff that's better put in a pm, so if you want to continue this lets do it there.

    My Dark Souls 2 Diary Day 6 and 7 Updated
    (PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
  • slash000slash000 Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    I bet Nintendo would be happy to hear that the bubble had burst or was about to burst.

    Because, man, I wish I ran a company for which the product's bubble had burst/was bursting and was still outselling the competition of the next two products combined, and had some of the best and continued software sales.

  • AegeriAegeri Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Xagarath wrote: »
    For the record: I have close to no nintendo fandom at all

    You destroyed, absolutely completely and utterly destroyed, my previously thought to be indestructible irony meter right now.
    Said mild irritation might have been averted had you adopted any tone other than overwhelming arrogance.

    You could take your own advice before criticizing morninglord just so you know :)
    SirUltimos wrote:
    Getting back to the topic, what exactly would everyone here define as the bubble bursting?

    I would see it as a major drop in hardware sales and game sales. Neither of which have occurred and their article now I have read all of it fully is really weirdly justified. It's rather like claiming the sky is falling because an acorn fell (in this case it's just normal that game consoles somewhat slow up when you have an economic recession).

  • Hockey JohnstonHockey Johnston Registered User
    edited March 2009
    In my totally biased opinion, it seems like all brits are slightly immune to the Nintendo magic, Edge included.

    Anyway, the big online titles for Wii seem to be pretty well populated. Not like we're getting the internal numbers released, but I never feel like I'm the only one with it turned on and it's free. Guess that's what a big install base with too few online games leads to, but that doesn't really bother me.

  • JCRooksJCRooks Registered User
    edited March 2009
    slash000 wrote: »
    I bet Nintendo would be happy to hear that the bubble had burst or was about to burst.

    Because, man, I wish I ran a company for which the product's bubble had burst/was bursting and was still outselling the competition of the next two products combined, and had some of the best and continued software sales.

    Again, it's not always about who's in first, second, and third. You can take a look at other industries for good examples of this.

    For example, it's easy to argue that Microsoft's OS bubble burst years ago, especially with Vista. Yet, it still massively outsells the competition, and there's still far more PC software sold than Mac. But I think you'd agree that many Apple fans would argue that being #1 purely in sales isn't the only important thing. Also, a lot of worried MS execs that think that merely being #1 still isn't good enough, especially with slowing growth.

    Let's ignore the competition for the moment. Is Nintendo satisfied with the sales of the Wii in all of its regions? What did it originally budget versus what it's seeing now? Those are very important questions just by themselves. Going back to my earlier example, I'm certain Vista is still outselling the pants out of MacOS simply because most consumers/businesses still want PCs. That doesn't mean MS needs to rest on their laurels though, because there's a lot of dissatisfation around that OS. Hence, Win7 which will hopefully be a vast improvement.

    It would be good for Nintendo to have the same attitude. Yes, be very happy that you are still outselling the competition. But also set yourself up for the future. After all, the situation in the "console war" changed so drastically in just a few short years, and so unexpectedly. Why can't it happen again?

    Xbox LIVE, Steam, Twitter, etc. ...
    Spoiler:
  • AegeriAegeri Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    In my totally biased opinion, it seems like all brits are slightly immune to the Nintendo magic, Edge included.

    One thing that dampened (then eventually killed) any enthusiasm I had for the Wii was Nintendos absurdly bullshit release dates. Brawl for example came out in the USA in either November or December 2007. I can't recall what date off the top of my head, on the Wii here in New Zealand it came out in June or July. That's really absurd, especially given both Sony and Microsoft manage to release all their games both 3rd party and 1st party usually on the same day as the rest of the world, or within a month or so.

    I'm not sure, but if it's the same sort of thing in Europe it just increases the gaps between when there is stuff worth playing and when there isn't sadly.

  • slash000slash000 Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    JCRooks wrote: »
    slash000 wrote: »
    I bet Nintendo would be happy to hear that the bubble had burst or was about to burst.

    Because, man, I wish I ran a company for which the product's bubble had burst/was bursting and was still outselling the competition of the next two products combined, and had some of the best and continued software sales.

    Again, it's not always about who's in first, second, and third. You can take a look at other industries for good examples of this.

    For example, it's easy to argue that Microsoft's OS bubble burst years ago, especially with Vista. Yet, it still massively outsells the competition, and there's still far more PC software sold than Mac. But I think you'd agree that many Apple fans would argue that being #1 purely in sales isn't the only important thing. Also, a lot of worried MS execs that think that merely being #1 still isn't good enough, especially with slowing growth.

    Let's ignore the competition for the moment. Is Nintendo satisfied with the sales of the Wii in all of its regions? What did it originally budget versus what it's seeing now? Those are very important questions just by themselves. Going back to my earlier example, I'm certain Vista is still outselling the pants out of MacOS simply because most consumers/businesses still want PCs. That doesn't mean MS needs to rest on their laurels though, because there's a lot of dissatisfation around that OS. Hence, Win7 which will hopefully be a vast improvement.

    It would be good for Nintendo to have the same attitude. Yes, be very happy that you are still outselling the competition. But also set yourself up for the future. After all, the situation in the "console war" changed so drastically in just a few short years, and so unexpectedly. Why can't it happen again?



    I completely agree with everything you have said in this post.

    But I will reiterate that if this current scenario is the dreaded bubble burst, then it's hardly a terrible predicament.

    You're right in that it's not about being 1st. Being the, by far, market leader is just a factor, an indicator, but not a conclusive measurement of success.

    Companies try to bring in profit. That's the bottom line. Some companies take divisions or products and lose money on them, but it's part of a larger picture. For Nintendo, the Wii console, Nintendo DS console, and its software and third party license revenue is their complete picture. Considering the massive success of all of these factors, I think that they are in a good position if this is how the picture looks of a burst bubble.


    Now, what can they do, well, there's always room for improvement. But you've already elaborated on that and I agree with you so I'll leave it at that.

  • AegeriAegeri Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Nintendo don't have to remain first for the rest of the generation as it is. They've sold enough Wiis already to easily make a huge profit from the system and the installed base is sufficient that game sales alone (especially if most of those buy first party titles) should easily keep them going. It's impossible at this point for the Wii to be a financial failure in any way.

  • bloodwingsbloodwings Registered User
    edited March 2009
    the DS pretty much had no library for a couple years, but it ended up being the best console this gen imo.

  • Speed RacerSpeed Racer I'm Speed Racer and I drive real fast. I drive real fast, I'm gonna last.Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    I loved the shit out of the Wii for like, all of '07. It was on almost daily. Then '08 rolled around and... Smash Bros. came out and... well I guess that's all? Oh yeah, No More Heroes.

    If they got back to when they were like BAM! Super Paper Mario, BAM! Warioware, BAM! Mario Galaxy, BAM! Metroid, BAM! Trauma Center, I'm sure I'd fall in love with it again.

    speedsig2_zps388d2098.jpg
  • CarolinaBBQCarolinaBBQ Registered User
    edited March 2009
    The wii bubble burst for me a long time ago.
    I hate to drunkenly half-quote junk I read from somewhere I don't remember but....

    Since the wii tracks how long you've played a game and the last time you played it, I remember an article coming out from last year saying that MANY folks you who had gotten their wii after the second holiday it was out had not played the system in more than 6 weeks.

    I realize that there are lags between good game releases but it seems like lack of great games didn't make up for the newness wearing off of the system. Mario Kart and Brawl are the last games for the wii I remember anyone talking about.

    I'm on these boards religiously and I saw Dead Rising on the shelves with shock that it was out (admittedly I hate that game but was interested in the improvements)

    If Nintendo fucks up the "true motion" control, I think they're as screwed as a powerhouse as nintendo can be. If they can somehow make the world buy ANOTHER FUCKING PERIPHERAL AND GET SUPPORT FROM DEVELOPERS then they are gonna make mega trilliions.

    Oh well, enough drunk typing, hope you get the jist.

    <3 Nintendo

    Scri33le.png
  • JCRooksJCRooks Registered User
    edited March 2009
    slash000 wrote: »
    JCRooks wrote: »
    slash000 wrote: »
    I bet Nintendo would be happy to hear that the bubble had burst or was about to burst.

    Because, man, I wish I ran a company for which the product's bubble had burst/was bursting and was still outselling the competition of the next two products combined, and had some of the best and continued software sales.

    Again, it's not always about who's in first, second, and third. You can take a look at other industries for good examples of this.

    For example, it's easy to argue that Microsoft's OS bubble burst years ago, especially with Vista. Yet, it still massively outsells the competition, and there's still far more PC software sold than Mac. But I think you'd agree that many Apple fans would argue that being #1 purely in sales isn't the only important thing. Also, a lot of worried MS execs that think that merely being #1 still isn't good enough, especially with slowing growth.

    Let's ignore the competition for the moment. Is Nintendo satisfied with the sales of the Wii in all of its regions? What did it originally budget versus what it's seeing now? Those are very important questions just by themselves. Going back to my earlier example, I'm certain Vista is still outselling the pants out of MacOS simply because most consumers/businesses still want PCs. That doesn't mean MS needs to rest on their laurels though, because there's a lot of dissatisfation around that OS. Hence, Win7 which will hopefully be a vast improvement.

    It would be good for Nintendo to have the same attitude. Yes, be very happy that you are still outselling the competition. But also set yourself up for the future. After all, the situation in the "console war" changed so drastically in just a few short years, and so unexpectedly. Why can't it happen again?



    I completely agree with everything you have said in this post.

    But I will reiterate that if this current scenario is the dreaded bubble burst, then it's hardly a terrible predicament.

    You're right in that it's not about being 1st. Being the, by far, market leader is just a factor, an indicator, but not a conclusive measurement of success.

    Companies try to bring in profit. That's the bottom line. Some companies take divisions or products and lose money on them, but it's part of a larger picture. For Nintendo, the Wii console, Nintendo DS console, and its software and third party license revenue is their complete picture. Considering the massive success of all of these factors, I think that they are in a good position if this is how the picture looks of a burst bubble.

    Now, what can they do, well, there's always room for improvement. But you've already elaborated on that and I agree with you so I'll leave it at that.

    I agree that "bubble burst" is the wrong phrase, especially since it has negative connotations along with tech/housing bubble. As I mentioned in an earlier post, this is could simply be Nintendo reaching it's sales peak with the Wii. That's it. It has to happen at some point. It does for all products eventually. Nothing more, nothing less.

    Xbox LIVE, Steam, Twitter, etc. ...
    Spoiler:
  • DaedalusDaedalus Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    JCRooks wrote: »
    slash000 wrote: »
    I bet Nintendo would be happy to hear that the bubble had burst or was about to burst.

    Because, man, I wish I ran a company for which the product's bubble had burst/was bursting and was still outselling the competition of the next two products combined, and had some of the best and continued software sales.

    Again, it's not always about who's in first, second, and third. You can take a look at other industries for good examples of this.

    For example, it's easy to argue that Microsoft's OS bubble burst years ago, especially with Vista. Yet, it still massively outsells the competition, and there's still far more PC software sold than Mac. But I think you'd agree that many Apple fans would argue that being #1 purely in sales isn't the only important thing. Also, a lot of worried MS execs that think that merely being #1 still isn't good enough, especially with slowing growth.

    I don't really agree here. Of course Apple fans would say that being number 1 in sales isn't the important thing, because they're a distant, distant second. First of all, they certainly wouldn't say that if they were in first place (you may hear even Steve Jobs say that whoever's in first place in operating system sales doesn't matter, but oddly enough I've never heard him say that about portable audio players), and second (and more importantly) the opinion of fans really isn't what controls, here. The shareholders are calling the shots, and they certainly like the whole #1 thing. They'd, of course, like it more if they had more sales, but to say that it's not about who's in first and how wide that margin is is sort of ridiculous.

    I mean, you can say you don't like the Wii, or Windows, or whatever. (Hell, I'm the biggest Linux geek I know; I say that all the time), but that's pretty far from "being first in sales by a hell of a margin really doesn't matter".

    But then, I don't understand why anyone here who doesn't own significant stock in a video game company even gives a shit. This isn't directed at you, or even anyone here in particular, but holy zombie Christ, what is it with the "System Wars" bullshit you see in darker, smellier corners of the Internet? I've seen political debates that weren't as ugly.

    vvvvvv-dithw.png
  • LawndartLawndart Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Aegeri wrote: »
    There is absolutely nothing wrong with the Wii as a system, incidentally.

    Uh, yes there is. There are things wrong with every console, the Wii included.

    The lack of HD video output, the comparatively high price, the meager storage options and the cumbersome online functionality of the Wii are all pretty undeniable negatives, at least from a gaming standpoint.

    To comment on the article, it does seem like a generic "So, how's the fucked-up economy going to impact videogame consoles?" article using the Wii as the obvious hook since for better or worse it's the market leader this generation and thus has the most ground to potentially lose.

    I am wondering if the (slightly to drastically) different demographic the Wii is being marketed to will continue to spend as much on video games and consoles as the more traditional "gamer" demographic the PS3 and 360 are fighting over.

    Plus, saying "Has the PS3 sales bubble burst?" is pure comedy gold.

  • JCRooksJCRooks Registered User
    edited March 2009
    Daedalus wrote: »
    JCRooks wrote: »
    slash000 wrote: »
    I bet Nintendo would be happy to hear that the bubble had burst or was about to burst.

    Because, man, I wish I ran a company for which the product's bubble had burst/was bursting and was still outselling the competition of the next two products combined, and had some of the best and continued software sales.

    Again, it's not always about who's in first, second, and third. You can take a look at other industries for good examples of this.

    For example, it's easy to argue that Microsoft's OS bubble burst years ago, especially with Vista. Yet, it still massively outsells the competition, and there's still far more PC software sold than Mac. But I think you'd agree that many Apple fans would argue that being #1 purely in sales isn't the only important thing. Also, a lot of worried MS execs that think that merely being #1 still isn't good enough, especially with slowing growth.

    I don't really agree here. Of course Apple fans would say that being number 1 in sales isn't the important thing, because they're a distant, distant second. First of all, they certainly wouldn't say that if they were in first place (you may hear even Steve Jobs say that whoever's in first place in operating system sales doesn't matter, but oddly enough I've never heard him say that about portable audio players), and second (and more importantly) the opinion of fans really isn't what controls, here. The shareholders are calling the shots, and they certainly like the whole #1 thing. They'd, of course, like it more if they had more sales, but to say that it's not about who's in first and how wide that margin is is sort of ridiculous.

    I mean, you can say you don't like the Wii, or Windows, or whatever. (Hell, I'm the biggest Linux geek I know; I say that all the time), but that's pretty far from "being first in sales by a hell of a margin really doesn't matter".

    But then, I don't understand why anyone here who doesn't own significant stock in a video game company even gives a shit. This isn't directed at you, or even anyone here in particular, but holy zombie Christ, what is it with the "System Wars" bullshit you see in darker, smellier corners of the Internet? I've seen political debates that weren't as ugly.

    Yeah, the "console warz" really brings out the worst in people. Go figure!

    Anyway, as for "who's first" I would argue that shareholders care more about profit and growth. You can be the #1 in terms of sales, but losing a lot of money at the same time. Or you could be making good money, but it's been going down steadily every year and it's not clear where to go from there (a la, the physical newspaper/magazine business or the recording/music industry).

    It's entirely possible for the "#2" to be in a much healthier financial position overall than the current #1. Especially when some of the companies, like MS and Sony, are involved in so many other industries. One could argue that all MS needs to be is competitive in this space, so that folks are much more receptive with buying MS products for their living room instead of just their office ... and it's a huge win overall for the company. That probably wouldn't be far from the truth at all ...

    Xbox LIVE, Steam, Twitter, etc. ...
    Spoiler:
  • FyreWulffFyreWulff Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited March 2009
    Lawndart wrote: »
    Aegeri wrote: »
    There is absolutely nothing wrong with the Wii as a system, incidentally.

    Uh, yes there is. There are things wrong with every console, the Wii included.

    The lack of HD video output, the comparatively high price, the meager storage options and the cumbersome online functionality of the Wii are all pretty undeniable negatives, at least from a gaming standpoint.

    None of which hurt the consoles sales. HD still doesn't have enough penetration to actually matter, it's still the cheapest of the 3 (the 360 core is a joke), and all 3's online functionality has much to be desired. You know that more and more 360 games are no longer truly HD, but just let the scaler chip upscale the game image? I imagine that's what the next Nintendo will have, just a scaler chip and let the developer decide if they want to waste memory on a feature that only 15% of their userbase will use.

  • LawndartLawndart Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    FyreWulff wrote: »
    Lawndart wrote: »
    Aegeri wrote: »
    There is absolutely nothing wrong with the Wii as a system, incidentally.

    Uh, yes there is. There are things wrong with every console, the Wii included.

    The lack of HD video output, the comparatively high price, the meager storage options and the cumbersome online functionality of the Wii are all pretty undeniable negatives, at least from a gaming standpoint.

    None of which hurt the consoles sales. HD still doesn't have enough penetration to actually matter, it's still the cheapest of the 3 (the 360 core is a joke), and all 3's online functionality has much to be desired. You know that more and more 360 games are no longer truly HD, but just let the scaler chip upscale the game image? I imagine that's what the next Nintendo will have, just a scaler chip and let the developer decide if they want to waste memory on a feature that only 15% of their userbase will use.

    Which is why I said "at least from a gaming standpoint", not "from a sales standpoint".

    The difference, at least 'round these parts, is that nobody defends the 360 Core or the PS3 being stripped of backwards compatibility as being positive things for gaming in general the way the Wii's lack of HD video output is.

    And for the bolded portion, citation please?

  • Dr Mario KartDr Mario Kart Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Peak Sales Years:

    PS2 - 2002 (3rd Christmas)
    GC - 2003 (3rd Christmas)
    XBOX - 2004 (4th Christmas)

  • SamSam Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    So I would ask you: Do you think the Xbox 360 bubble has burst?

    Being the owner of a 360, I am very torn on the platform itself. The few games I have that I enjoy (GTA4, Dead Rising, Forza 2, Rock Band) are awesome, but the system seems to have a disproportionately high amount of worst-in-class shovel ware. The game library is incredibly weak, and I wonder if that is starting to catch up to Microsoft. The shiny "Oh wow, I can play my games in a higher resolution" feeling is starting to wear off, and people are starting to demand content that isn't paper thin.

    There are other factors as well. Most of the world is in a pretty nasty recession right now, so people don't have the discretionary income to go buy a new system. People who want a 360 may already have one, as the whole demand craze seems to have died down. I remember a year ago 50 year old co-workers of mine were gushing about their 360 or how they were trying to find one, but that seems to have all died down.

    Except, no. Unless you're trying to imply that the multiplatform (i.e ps360) market is full of paper thin content, but seeing as SF4, Lost and the Damned, Skate 2, RE5 and Killzone 2 all came out not too long ago, you'd have a hard time making that argument. The Wii on the other hand literally does suffer from more shovelware and less quality, moreso than even the Gamecube.

  • slash000slash000 Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Peak Sales Years:

    PS2 - 2002 (3rd Christmas)
    GC - 2003 (3rd Christmas)
    XBOX - 2004 (4th Christmas)

    So if the Wii follows suit, its 2008 Xmas, this past season, will have been its peak sales?

  • Brainiac 8Brainiac 8 Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    No, no bursting. I never understand articles like this since there is no basis for there arguments. I could see part of the way through 2007 people claiming it to be a fad, and I didn't fault them for their opinions, but a few years down the road people should just start accepting that Nintendo won this generation...since between the DS and Wii, they are unstoppable.

    Personally for me, I own both a 360 and Wii..plus a DS. I own three games for my 360, and over ten for my Wii, plus a good ten others for my DS...so yea, I play the Wii much more than the 360. But the reason for that is I buy and enjoy lower key titles that don't get alot of attention like many mainstream games do, such as awesome gems like De Blob and Elebits.

    I like many of the games for the 360, but nothing I want to buy. I usually play both systems on a regular basis, but I play the Wii daily, as well as my DS, which sadly owns my life. :P

    Either way, the person who wrote the article has no idea what he is talking about and is probably just sore that his favorite of the consoles hasn't won yet.

    3DS Friend Code - 1032-1293-2997
    Nintendo Network ID - Brainiac_8
    PSN - Brainiac_8
    Steam - http://steamcommunity.com/id/BRAINIAC8/
    Add me!
  • slash000slash000 Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Yep, the 360's bubble has burst, since it's barely eclipsing its year/year prior sales, even at $200/$300, cheapest console on the market. The PS3's bubble has burst since it's most recent huge Fall 2008 shopping season was even worse sales numbers than its year before that (2007). And now, finally, the Wii's bubble has burst, too, since supply is approaching demand. So everyone can join the party!


    _702507_dotcom.jpg

This discussion has been closed.