Gah, the ln46a650 just went back up to 1450 on amazon....
...and back down to $1390... fuuuuuck what do i do.
I cannot see the future. However, I don't think you're going to see that panel much cheaper. The leap from the 550 to the 650 is noticeable, and at the lowest point in the X-mas fire sales I don't remember the ln52a650 dropping below $1800. So that's probably an appropriate price for the 46A650 on its way out the door.
Gah, the ln46a650 just went back up to 1450 on amazon....
...and back down to $1390... fuuuuuck what do i do.
I cannot see the future. However, I don't think you're going to see that panel much cheaper. The leap from the 550 to the 650 is noticeable, and at the lowest point in the X-mas fire sales I don't remember the ln52a650 dropping below $1800. So that's probably an appropriate price for the 46A650 on its way out the door.
Their 6 month no financing offer lasts until april 30th. I'm thinking of waiting until then to take the plunge.
How long will it take to get approved for the card though?
Gah, the ln46a650 just went back up to 1450 on amazon....
...and back down to $1390... fuuuuuck what do i do.
I cannot see the future. However, I don't think you're going to see that panel much cheaper. The leap from the 550 to the 650 is noticeable, and at the lowest point in the X-mas fire sales I don't remember the ln52a650 dropping below $1800. So that's probably an appropriate price for the 46A650 on its way out the door.
Their 6 month no financing offer lasts until april 30th. I'm thinking of waiting until then to take the plunge.
How long will it take to get approved for the card though?
I dunno about Amazon, but when I just did it at Best Buy it was instantaneous. Assuming you have no credit problems my guess would be it's much the same. Not a bad idea to wait till end of month, just make sure you keep an eye on it...they should start listing how many they have left when they are getting close to gone.
Yeah, it took Best Buy 5 minutes to give me a line of credit.. and most of that was them sitting on the phone spelling out my address.
I know the LN46A650 was the last one at my Best Buy.. it was the floor model, and the guy said he had none left in the back. Obviously there's hundreds of these stores out there and this only reflects my experiences, but I can imagine that if you really want that TV, waiting will only end in tears.
Right chaps, I'm heavily considering getting a HDTV in the easter sales that are cropping up, and am trying to figure out what would be best. From looking at the information in the OP, it seems I'd prefer a plasma to LCD, having hooked my 360 up to my girlfriend's dad's Sony Bravia and while it looked great, I couldn't get over the ghosting that was going on. It might not've been set up right, but basically I'm more fussy about avoiding ghosting and not having to worry about viewing angle. I'm thinking maybe something around the 40" size (that's flexible though) and I'm comfortable spending up to about £600. If possible I'd like up to 1080p support, but I'm a little easier on that.
Right chaps, I'm heavily considering getting a HDTV in the easter sales that are cropping up, and am trying to figure out what would be best. From looking at the information in the OP, it seems I'd prefer a plasma to LCD, having hooked my 360 up to my girlfriend's dad's Sony Bravia and while it looked great, I couldn't get over the ghosting that was going on. It might not've been set up right, but basically I'm more fussy about avoiding ghosting and not having to worry about viewing angle. I'm thinking maybe something around the 40" size (that's flexible though) and I'm comfortable spending up to about £600. If possible I'd like up to 1080p support, but I'm a little easier on that.
That price translates to around $880 USD, so I'm going with those terms. Via Amazon: the Panasonic 42" G10 (essentially their second best plasma line this year) is around $1100...not quite your price range but close. The next step down is the Panasonic 42" S1, which should be close in quality, and exactly meets your budget. I haven't seen either in person, but they're supposed to be pretty good.
There is also the Samsung 42B450 at $800. Not sure how it stacks up, but generally I see people going Panny over Samsung, who makes most of their money on the LCDs.
Right chaps, I'm heavily considering getting a HDTV in the easter sales that are cropping up, and am trying to figure out what would be best. From looking at the information in the OP, it seems I'd prefer a plasma to LCD, having hooked my 360 up to my girlfriend's dad's Sony Bravia and while it looked great, I couldn't get over the ghosting that was going on. It might not've been set up right, but basically I'm more fussy about avoiding ghosting and not having to worry about viewing angle. I'm thinking maybe something around the 40" size (that's flexible though) and I'm comfortable spending up to about £600. If possible I'd like up to 1080p support, but I'm a little easier on that.
That price translates to around $880 USD, so I'm going with those terms. Via Amazon: the Panasonic 42" G10 (essentially their second best plasma line this year) is around $1100...not quite your price range but close. The next step down is the Panasonic 42" S1, which should be close in quality, and exactly meets your budget. I haven't seen either in person, but they're supposed to be pretty good.
There is also the Samsung 42B450 at $800. Not sure how it stacks up, but generally I see people going Panny over Samsung, who makes most of their money on the LCDs.
some quick googling seems to show the G10 at around £1000 anyway, which is a shame. There's something like this which is kind of tempting, as having a stand for it would be rather useful. Or I could probably build a functional one myself, if that's a kind of older, crappier model (and spend a bit more on a newer one).
So, I'm thinking about buying the Samsung LN40A550 at Best Buy where it's on sale for $799 until closing today.
Question: I noticed the video on it looked kinda artifactish from up close...like, the same as a poorly compressed JPEG would look. Is that the motion blur everyone talks about (this model is 60Hz, not 120Hz, IIRC) or is it just a bad connection to the feed or something? It would surprise me if their connections sucked. The Sony model next to it had honest-to-god static over its image. o_O
I will be using this a lot for gaming, so if it's the motion blur I'm noticing, I'll probably spring for something better. But if it was just the feed, I will gleefully take this one because the size, colors and price all click for me.
Edit: Note, I have never noticed motion blur on my LCD monitors while gaming on the PC, so is this a good indicator that I do not in fact notice motion blur?
The best buy where I got my TV had all the screens linked up via coax.. so any subtle image problems I would blame on that. If you can, take a peek behind the screen to see how it's hooked up. They'll all be hooked up the same way.
If you can, ask for a remote for the TV and hunt around in the menus until you find 'set to defaults'. There's a huge chance someone was fucking around with sliders and cranked up the contrast and stuff to make it look pretty.
According to Samsung's site that screen has a 5ms refresh rate (which is quite good), so I don't think what you're seeing is motion blur.
So, I'm thinking about buying the Samsung LN40A550 at Best Buy where it's on sale for $799 until closing today.
Question: I noticed the video on it looked kinda artifactish from up close...like, the same as a poorly compressed JPEG would look. Is that the motion blur everyone talks about (this model is 60Hz, not 120Hz, IIRC) or is it just a bad connection to the feed or something? It would surprise me if their connections sucked. The Sony model next to it had honest-to-god static over its image. o_O
I will be using this a lot for gaming, so if it's the motion blur I'm noticing, I'll probably spring for something better. But if it was just the feed, I will gleefully take this one because the size, colors and price all click for me.
Edit: Note, I have never noticed motion blur on my LCD monitors while gaming on the PC, so is this a good indicator that I do not in fact notice motion blur?
You should probably be aware that Amazon has been selling this TV for $799 as well off and on again all week which translates to substantially cheaper because of free shipping and no tax (if you're buying from the real store - I don't know about BB online's tax policy). I actually ordered it myself last Saturday at $799 but it doesn't arrive until this Monday so I can't comment on the image quality question of your post.
Currently Amazon is asking $890 but like I said it keeps bouncing around on an almost daily basis. Just an FYI for you to have while considering your options.
Hmm, thanks for the advice. After going back up to the store and watching the screens some more, I think I might be leaning toward plasma now. Last time they were mostly showing calm ocean or landscape scenes, but they had a soccer game playing this time and the blur was really evident to me on the ball. Even on the 120Hz screens, it was like the FedEx arrow. I might not have noticed it before, but now I can't unsee it.
They had a 42" Samsung plasma for the same price ($799) as the LCD, but it was 720p instead of 1080p. In fact, looking around, I didn't really see any 1080p plasmas unless they were in the 50-60" range. Is that common, or were they just lacking in selection? I can't seem to find many online, either. And if I do, they're a lot more expensive than similarly sized LCDs. I though plasmas had the advantage in price? Or is that just for 720p models?
Hmm, thanks for the advice. After going back up to the store and watching the screens some more, I think I might be leaning toward plasma now. Last time they were mostly showing calm ocean or landscape scenes, but they had a soccer game playing this time and the blur was really evident to me on the ball. Even on the 120Hz screens, it was like the FedEx arrow. I might not have noticed it before, but now I can't unsee it.
They had a 42" Samsung plasma for the same price ($799) as the LCD, but it was 720p instead of 1080p. In fact, looking around, I didn't really see any 1080p plasmas unless they were in the 50-60" range. Is that common, or were they just lacking in selection? I can't seem to find many online, either. And if I do, they're a lot more expensive than similarly sized LCDs. I though plasmas had the advantage in price? Or is that just for 720p models?
As the graph in the OP will show you, your eyes cannot physically tell the difference between 720p and 1080p on a 40" set. Even at the 50" level it's not dramatic, it's just noticeable. So it's pretty common to see the smaller sets lacking the feature...it just makes more sense to make them native to 720p. That way their best picture is at that resolution. Plasmas also generally do have the advantage in price.
As far as the comment on the 5 ms refresh rate, this is another one of those figures that is of questionable use. While not as questionable as contrast ratio or as pointless as DYNAMIC contrast ratio, there is still not an industrywide standard for measuring refresh rate. I remember when LCD monitors were really blowing up for computers, and these 6ms monitors were coming out and my Hyundai 12+ was still kicking their ass.
If you notice the blur on the A550 and don't notice it on a neighboring monitor, don't get the 550. Make no mistake, it is a budget-level Samsung. I noticed with my PS3 that it's colors were significantly off. But if you want to save money, then these concessions are probably worth it to you. BTW, I don't think the artifacts you're talking about are motion blur, but I could be wrong.
As the graph in the OP will show you, your eyes cannot physically tell the difference between 720p and 1080p on a 40" set. Even at the 50" level it's not dramatic, it's just noticeable. So it's pretty common to see the smaller sets lacking the feature...it just makes more sense to make them native to 720p. That way their best picture is at that resolution. Plasmas also generally do have the advantage in price.
As far as the comment on the 5 ms refresh rate, this is another one of those figures that is of questionable use. While not as questionable as contrast ratio or as pointless as DYNAMIC contrast ratio, there is still not an industrywide standard for measuring refresh rate. I remember when LCD monitors were really blowing up for computers, and these 6ms monitors were coming out and my Hyundai 12+ was still kicking their ass.
If you notice the blur on the A550 and don't notice it on a neighboring monitor, don't get the 550. Make no mistake, it is a budget-level Samsung. I noticed with my PS3 that it's colors were significantly off. But if you want to save money, then these concessions are probably worth it to you. BTW, I don't think the artifacts you're talking about are motion blur, but I could be wrong.
A word of warning: "720p" plasmas are almost always 1024x768 in actuality. Non-square pixels means text will generally look like shit, which is bad for consoles and computers at the very least. Any input source - 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i, 1080p - has to be scaled to match the crazy-ass native resolution. And, of course, it's somewhere around 85% the resolution of a real 720p (1280x720) panel.
As far as the "motion blur" - I agree, it doesn't sound like motion blur. If it looks like compression artifacting, odds are it is compression artifacting. Best Buy's video source could have been shitty - a DVD or an over-compressed cable/satellite channel. Combine that with the woeful settings display units are given (backlight, brightness, and sharpness maxed for 'eye-catching'), and you have a recipe for very noticeable compression artifacts.
Hmm, thanks for the advice. After going back up to the store and watching the screens some more, I think I might be leaning toward plasma now. Last time they were mostly showing calm ocean or landscape scenes, but they had a soccer game playing this time and the blur was really evident to me on the ball. Even on the 120Hz screens, it was like the FedEx arrow. I might not have noticed it before, but now I can't unsee it.
They had a 42" Samsung plasma for the same price ($799) as the LCD, but it was 720p instead of 1080p. In fact, looking around, I didn't really see any 1080p plasmas unless they were in the 50-60" range. Is that common, or were they just lacking in selection? I can't seem to find many online, either. And if I do, they're a lot more expensive than similarly sized LCDs. I though plasmas had the advantage in price? Or is that just for 720p models?
As the graph in the OP will show you, your eyes cannot physically tell the difference between 720p and 1080p on a 40" set. Even at the 50" level it's not dramatic, it's just noticeable. So it's pretty common to see the smaller sets lacking the feature...it just makes more sense to make them native to 720p. That way their best picture is at that resolution. Plasmas also generally do have the advantage in price.
As far as the comment on the 5 ms refresh rate, this is another one of those figures that is of questionable use. While not as questionable as contrast ratio or as pointless as DYNAMIC contrast ratio, there is still not an industrywide standard for measuring refresh rate. I remember when LCD monitors were really blowing up for computers, and these 6ms monitors were coming out and my Hyundai 12+ was still kicking their ass.
If you notice the blur on the A550 and don't notice it on a neighboring monitor, don't get the 550. Make no mistake, it is a budget-level Samsung. I noticed with my PS3 that it's colors were significantly off. But if you want to save money, then these concessions are probably worth it to you. BTW, I don't think the artifacts you're talking about are motion blur, but I could be wrong.
Man what? The graph just shows it all depends on your viewing distance, and many people sit close enough to 40" sets to be able to see the difference
Still no idea what TV I should be looking for, ideally a 40" plasma that'll be good to hook my xbox up to. I can't go for the latest models as they seem out of my price range, but maybe something from last year?
Still no idea what TV I should be looking for, ideally a 40" plasma that'll be good to hook my xbox up to. I can't go for the latest models as they seem out of my price range, but maybe something from last year?
If you're really looking to go plasma, my advice would be to pick the size you want, then find the highest-model Panasonic in your price range for that size. I didn't realize availability was different in the UK. Alternatively, Vizio seems to be making strong headway in the plasma market with cheaper, well-performing screens. I would go to a store and check them out side-by-side to a Panny, if possible. If you go last year, the Panny 850s and 800s did pretty well at the lower price ranges but there aren't too many of those left...
Still no idea what TV I should be looking for, ideally a 40" plasma that'll be good to hook my xbox up to. I can't go for the latest models as they seem out of my price range, but maybe something from last year?
If you're really looking to go plasma, my advice would be to pick the size you want, then find the highest-model Panasonic in your price range for that size. I didn't realize availability was different in the UK. Alternatively, Vizio seems to be making strong headway in the plasma market with cheaper, well-performing screens. I would go to a store and check them out side-by-side to a Panny, if possible. If you go last year, the Panny 850s and 800s did pretty well at the lower price ranges but there aren't too many of those left...
I generally sit under 5 feet away from my 46", let alone 40. Not all the time sure, but its nice to pull up a chair and have the tv take up your entire field of vision when watching movies or playing games.
Still no idea what TV I should be looking for, ideally a 40" plasma that'll be good to hook my xbox up to. I can't go for the latest models as they seem out of my price range, but maybe something from last year?
If you're really looking to go plasma, my advice would be to pick the size you want, then find the highest-model Panasonic in your price range for that size. I didn't realize availability was different in the UK. Alternatively, Vizio seems to be making strong headway in the plasma market with cheaper, well-performing screens. I would go to a store and check them out side-by-side to a Panny, if possible. If you go last year, the Panny 850s and 800s did pretty well at the lower price ranges but there aren't too many of those left...
Cheers, that's what I'm thinking. I'm hoping to get into town today and have a look at some screens, hooray!
Cheers, that's what I'm thinking. I'm hoping to get into town today and have a look at some screens, hooray!
Be sure to let me know what you find out! I could be in the market for something similar to what you're looking for. Might have to cut my budget by a little, but any impressions you get on anything out there would be appreciated.
Well I've done some more research, but I don't know how useful it was. In Currys there was a Samsung that was gorgeous, but about £1600. The rest were all on the same HD feed and.. it just wasn't the best. A Panasonic plasma was outlcassed by a £100-cheaper LG next to it, which didn't seem right. Also the picture on every screen was clipping off the left-hand side, which didn't inspire much confidence in what I was seeing.
Also Sainsburys have no idea how to sell a HDTV.
So now I'm back at home and have been looking online some more. After going on the Gadget Show's site and seeing what they suggest, their plasmas seem rather expensive or a bit too much of a compromise, bu there's now a Samsung LCD that I'm considering. The reference is different for the US it seems, and I'm not sure it's precisely this model, but here for Samsung's own site and here for probably the best price I can see it for. Still want to go into town tomorrow and see how it looks, but I'm certainly interested.
I suggest if you find screens at the store you are interested in, ask for the remote and reset them to factory defaults. If a screen you like is next to a screen that mysteriously looks better, do the same for that screen.
All those televisions have "display modes" where they crank up the contrast and saturate the colors to make them look prettier. Not all screens do this the same way, and people are constantly in there dicking around with the sliders. The only way to make a fair comparison is dick with the sliders yourself.
I know a guy who works in the shop I'm going to visit tomorrow, so hopefully he'll be able to help me out when it comes to fiddling with settings and stuff. I'm considering taking my xbox in to see if I can hook it up, but I don't know how much hassle that'd be.
I know a guy who works in the shop I'm going to visit tomorrow, so hopefully he'll be able to help me out when it comes to fiddling with settings and stuff. I'm considering taking my xbox in to see if I can hook it up, but I don't know how much hassle that'd be.
Do you have an hdmi xbox? Because almost all modern screens have an hdmi port along the side.
Most will still have component inputs too.. but they're on the back panel and hard to get to.
I know a guy who works in the shop I'm going to visit tomorrow, so hopefully he'll be able to help me out when it comes to fiddling with settings and stuff. I'm considering taking my xbox in to see if I can hook it up, but I don't know how much hassle that'd be.
Do you have an hdmi xbox? Because almost all modern screens have an hdmi port along the side.
Most will still have component inputs too.. but they're on the back panel and hard to get to.
Yup, HDMI. Today was useful for research, but I'm hoping to get more done tomorrow, and possibly return with a new TV..
Gah, the ln46a650 just went back up to 1450 on amazon....
...and back down to $1390... fuuuuuck what do i do.
....and back up to $1540. fuck me.
... and now Amazon now longer has the "click here to view price" link and has the price set at $1499. Does this mean its likely to stay at that price until they're gone?
So, after being put off by the LCD motion blur (turns out the artifacts I saw were just crappy signal quality, but I did see the blur as well when they finally had some quick motion in the feed), I turned my sights to the Samsung PN42B450 Plasma, currently $759 on Amazon with free shipping (I do occasionally sit close enough that I would have liked 1080p, but that's just due to extremely cramped arrangements at the moment, so 720p should be fine in the long run).
Having never owned a plasma TV, I've read up as much as I can on the burn-in issue, but since you guys are likely to use your TVs in the same way I am, I figured I'd ask about it here. I talked to the salesman at Best Buy who reassured me, 'Oh yeah, I've never even had any image retention on mine, and I'm a huge gamer. Like, 2 hours every week, man.'
I guess my question is: as a gamer, should burn-in even be making me hesitate about buying this?
Everything I see seems to say, "Burning-in is really hard to do nowadays! (as long as you adhere to the 151 enclosed protocols and perform the necessary bewitching rituals each Thursday within one hour of sundown)." I can easily turn the TV off rather than leaving it on pause, and I can deal with a breaking-in period of 100-200 hours, but I'm not too keen on having to change my gaming/TV habits for as long as I have this TV. I tend to pick games and plow through them, playing one game until I beat it or get sick of it. What about 2-3 hours a day on average? I don't play every day, but I do enjoy some marathon sessions now and again.
Should I opt for the cheap, prettyful plasma now, or wait until I can afford an LCD with a higher refresh rate?
Even the threat of burn-in scared me away from getting a plasma. It's just not something I want to be risking at all, for something I'm dropping a thousand dollars on.
The LCD I got is viewable from any angle and the picture seems clear and sharp, so as far as I'm concerned, LCD screens are equivalent to plasmas, with none of the downsides.
Went to the shop earlier and hooked the 360 up to a couple of Sony Bravias, and was most impressed by the KDL37S5500, which was £725 there, and I can find about £50 cheaper online (but would have to wait 5 days for delivery). On researching these, I've seen that's basically a bottom-range model, and there's a V5500 and W5500. Now I've found a 37" V5500 for £717 delivered. It's less than I'd pay for a S5500, and supposedly better. Anyone got any experience with these and can say if it's actually a superior product?
The LCD I got is viewable from any angle and the picture seems clear and sharp, so as far as I'm concerned, LCD screens are equivalent to plasmas, with none of the downsides.
You can possibly make a statement that you personally don't notice it, but asserting that LCD screens are equivalent to plasmas in off-angle viewing is retarded. It is not debatable whether LCDs wash their color out and fade off-angle...they do. And while I can't speak from experience, not being a professional screen reviewer, apparently they do it equally from the $12,000 screens you can't find in stores right down to the bottom-barrel lowest end screen at Best Buy.
I guess my question is: as a gamer, should burn-in even be making me hesitate about buying this?
Everything I see seems to say, "Burning-in is really hard to do nowadays! (as long as you adhere to the 151 enclosed protocols and perform the necessary bewitching rituals each Thursday within one hour of sundown)." I can easily turn the TV off rather than leaving it on pause, and I can deal with a breaking-in period of 100-200 hours, but I'm not too keen on having to change my gaming/TV habits for as long as I have this TV. I tend to pick games and plow through them, playing one game until I beat it or get sick of it. What about 2-3 hours a day on average? I don't play every day, but I do enjoy some marathon sessions now and again.
Should I opt for the cheap, prettyful plasma now, or wait until I can afford an LCD with a higher refresh rate?
I went with the "cheap" plasma (got my Pio 5020FD @ $2300, then for $2000 after doing a price match at best buy this week). I've had it two weeks now, and I have punished the thing with games. I have the exact same gaming habits as you, mostly on the PS3 with some Wii at the moment. The first thing I noticed is that most games don't even have static images anymore...almost all the games I play either move the HUD (in response to motion) or hide things (like health when I'm not being hit). I've done three hour movies with black letterbox, etc., and never even seen image retention. I did a huge amount of reading in the two months leading up to this purchase trying to get a solid handle on burn-in. The following facts seem to be pretty reliable:
-It takes AWHILE to burn something in. You will have sufficient warning that you are doing so. During your marathon session, every few hours just watch something else for a few minutes and see if you notice any image retention (the correctible precursor to burn-in). If you see image retention, most TVs have a built-in feature to blow it away using preloaded screens. Most TVs also have a feature that you can run constantly in the background that imperceptibly shifts pixels to reduce the chance of burn-in.
-Treating the TV nice for its first 150 hours helps ensure that all the phosphors break-in evenly. They age/deteriorate the fastest during this time period...aging them evenly early on means that you will have to age specific pixels MUCH harsher later on to achieve burn-in.
If you don't mind dealing with that, plasma will be fine. If not, wait for LCD. The reason I'm willing to go pro-plasma right now is the insanely high price of LCDs...Samsung's newest LED line is $3,000+, and it doesn't even do local dimming like last year's A950 line did...and Sony is even MORE expensive!
Edit: I thought about it, are you intending on using this TV for WoW? I feel confident gaming with 99% of games, but the sheer amount of static images from some people's UI-mods plus the incredibly long, repeated sessions WoW usually encourages would make me concerned about a plasma. When I rebuild my comp I will probably reactivate WoW for the hell of it for a month or two but I am going to be damn careful the whole time.
The LCD I got is viewable from any angle and the picture seems clear and sharp, so as far as I'm concerned, LCD screens are equivalent to plasmas, with none of the downsides.
You can possibly make a statement that you personally don't notice it, but asserting that LCD screens are equivalent to plasmas in off-angle viewing is retarded. It is not debatable whether LCDs wash their color out and fade off-angle...they do. And while I can't speak from experience, not being a professional screen reviewer, apparently they do it equally from the $12,000 screens you can't find in stores right down to the bottom-barrel lowest end screen at Best Buy.
I don't notice color fading on my LCD until I'm watching it almost exactly to one side. It's still watchable at least.. when most everyone I've ever talked to acts like LCD screens disappear as soon as you view from anywhere except the exact center.
A weakness I can tolerate when the alternative is burn-in.
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Steam id: skoot LoL id: skoot
...and back down to $1390... fuuuuuck what do i do.
I cannot see the future. However, I don't think you're going to see that panel much cheaper. The leap from the 550 to the 650 is noticeable, and at the lowest point in the X-mas fire sales I don't remember the ln52a650 dropping below $1800. So that's probably an appropriate price for the 46A650 on its way out the door.
PSN: TheScrublet
Their 6 month no financing offer lasts until april 30th. I'm thinking of waiting until then to take the plunge.
How long will it take to get approved for the card though?
I dunno about Amazon, but when I just did it at Best Buy it was instantaneous. Assuming you have no credit problems my guess would be it's much the same. Not a bad idea to wait till end of month, just make sure you keep an eye on it...they should start listing how many they have left when they are getting close to gone.
PSN: TheScrublet
I know the LN46A650 was the last one at my Best Buy.. it was the floor model, and the guy said he had none left in the back. Obviously there's hundreds of these stores out there and this only reflects my experiences, but I can imagine that if you really want that TV, waiting will only end in tears.
That price translates to around $880 USD, so I'm going with those terms. Via Amazon: the Panasonic 42" G10 (essentially their second best plasma line this year) is around $1100...not quite your price range but close. The next step down is the Panasonic 42" S1, which should be close in quality, and exactly meets your budget. I haven't seen either in person, but they're supposed to be pretty good.
There is also the Samsung 42B450 at $800. Not sure how it stacks up, but generally I see people going Panny over Samsung, who makes most of their money on the LCDs.
PSN: TheScrublet
....and back up to $1540. fuck me.
Damn, just had a quick look for that S1 and can't seem to find it over here. It sounds really good, though. That's a frustration.
edit: Here's what they seem to currently have over here
http://www.panasonic.co.uk/html/en_GB/385811/module/general/compare/productsCategory.html
some quick googling seems to show the G10 at around £1000 anyway, which is a shame. There's something like this which is kind of tempting, as having a stand for it would be rather useful. Or I could probably build a functional one myself, if that's a kind of older, crappier model (and spend a bit more on a newer one).
Question: I noticed the video on it looked kinda artifactish from up close...like, the same as a poorly compressed JPEG would look. Is that the motion blur everyone talks about (this model is 60Hz, not 120Hz, IIRC) or is it just a bad connection to the feed or something? It would surprise me if their connections sucked. The Sony model next to it had honest-to-god static over its image. o_O
I will be using this a lot for gaming, so if it's the motion blur I'm noticing, I'll probably spring for something better. But if it was just the feed, I will gleefully take this one because the size, colors and price all click for me.
Edit: Note, I have never noticed motion blur on my LCD monitors while gaming on the PC, so is this a good indicator that I do not in fact notice motion blur?
If you can, ask for a remote for the TV and hunt around in the menus until you find 'set to defaults'. There's a huge chance someone was fucking around with sliders and cranked up the contrast and stuff to make it look pretty.
According to Samsung's site that screen has a 5ms refresh rate (which is quite good), so I don't think what you're seeing is motion blur.
Currently Amazon is asking $890 but like I said it keeps bouncing around on an almost daily basis. Just an FYI for you to have while considering your options.
They had a 42" Samsung plasma for the same price ($799) as the LCD, but it was 720p instead of 1080p. In fact, looking around, I didn't really see any 1080p plasmas unless they were in the 50-60" range. Is that common, or were they just lacking in selection? I can't seem to find many online, either. And if I do, they're a lot more expensive than similarly sized LCDs. I though plasmas had the advantage in price? Or is that just for 720p models?
As the graph in the OP will show you, your eyes cannot physically tell the difference between 720p and 1080p on a 40" set. Even at the 50" level it's not dramatic, it's just noticeable. So it's pretty common to see the smaller sets lacking the feature...it just makes more sense to make them native to 720p. That way their best picture is at that resolution. Plasmas also generally do have the advantage in price.
As far as the comment on the 5 ms refresh rate, this is another one of those figures that is of questionable use. While not as questionable as contrast ratio or as pointless as DYNAMIC contrast ratio, there is still not an industrywide standard for measuring refresh rate. I remember when LCD monitors were really blowing up for computers, and these 6ms monitors were coming out and my Hyundai 12+ was still kicking their ass.
If you notice the blur on the A550 and don't notice it on a neighboring monitor, don't get the 550. Make no mistake, it is a budget-level Samsung. I noticed with my PS3 that it's colors were significantly off. But if you want to save money, then these concessions are probably worth it to you. BTW, I don't think the artifacts you're talking about are motion blur, but I could be wrong.
PSN: TheScrublet
A word of warning: "720p" plasmas are almost always 1024x768 in actuality. Non-square pixels means text will generally look like shit, which is bad for consoles and computers at the very least. Any input source - 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i, 1080p - has to be scaled to match the crazy-ass native resolution. And, of course, it's somewhere around 85% the resolution of a real 720p (1280x720) panel.
As far as the "motion blur" - I agree, it doesn't sound like motion blur. If it looks like compression artifacting, odds are it is compression artifacting. Best Buy's video source could have been shitty - a DVD or an over-compressed cable/satellite channel. Combine that with the woeful settings display units are given (backlight, brightness, and sharpness maxed for 'eye-catching'), and you have a recipe for very noticeable compression artifacts.
If you sit 5' away from your 40" TV we need to stop talking about resolution difference and start talking about questionable living room arrangements.
If you're really looking to go plasma, my advice would be to pick the size you want, then find the highest-model Panasonic in your price range for that size. I didn't realize availability was different in the UK. Alternatively, Vizio seems to be making strong headway in the plasma market with cheaper, well-performing screens. I would go to a store and check them out side-by-side to a Panny, if possible. If you go last year, the Panny 850s and 800s did pretty well at the lower price ranges but there aren't too many of those left...
PSN: TheScrublet
I generally sit under 5 feet away from my 46", let alone 40. Not all the time sure, but its nice to pull up a chair and have the tv take up your entire field of vision when watching movies or playing games.
Cheers, that's what I'm thinking. I'm hoping to get into town today and have a look at some screens, hooray!
Be sure to let me know what you find out! I could be in the market for something similar to what you're looking for. Might have to cut my budget by a little, but any impressions you get on anything out there would be appreciated.
Also Sainsburys have no idea how to sell a HDTV.
So now I'm back at home and have been looking online some more. After going on the Gadget Show's site and seeing what they suggest, their plasmas seem rather expensive or a bit too much of a compromise, bu there's now a Samsung LCD that I'm considering. The reference is different for the US it seems, and I'm not sure it's precisely this model, but here for Samsung's own site and here for probably the best price I can see it for. Still want to go into town tomorrow and see how it looks, but I'm certainly interested.
All those televisions have "display modes" where they crank up the contrast and saturate the colors to make them look prettier. Not all screens do this the same way, and people are constantly in there dicking around with the sliders. The only way to make a fair comparison is dick with the sliders yourself.
Do you have an hdmi xbox? Because almost all modern screens have an hdmi port along the side.
Most will still have component inputs too.. but they're on the back panel and hard to get to.
Yup, HDMI. Today was useful for research, but I'm hoping to get more done tomorrow, and possibly return with a new TV..
... and now Amazon now longer has the "click here to view price" link and has the price set at $1499. Does this mean its likely to stay at that price until they're gone?
Having never owned a plasma TV, I've read up as much as I can on the burn-in issue, but since you guys are likely to use your TVs in the same way I am, I figured I'd ask about it here. I talked to the salesman at Best Buy who reassured me, 'Oh yeah, I've never even had any image retention on mine, and I'm a huge gamer. Like, 2 hours every week, man.'
I guess my question is: as a gamer, should burn-in even be making me hesitate about buying this?
Everything I see seems to say, "Burning-in is really hard to do nowadays! (as long as you adhere to the 151 enclosed protocols and perform the necessary bewitching rituals each Thursday within one hour of sundown)." I can easily turn the TV off rather than leaving it on pause, and I can deal with a breaking-in period of 100-200 hours, but I'm not too keen on having to change my gaming/TV habits for as long as I have this TV. I tend to pick games and plow through them, playing one game until I beat it or get sick of it. What about 2-3 hours a day on average? I don't play every day, but I do enjoy some marathon sessions now and again.
Should I opt for the cheap, prettyful plasma now, or wait until I can afford an LCD with a higher refresh rate?
The LCD I got is viewable from any angle and the picture seems clear and sharp, so as far as I'm concerned, LCD screens are equivalent to plasmas, with none of the downsides.
You can possibly make a statement that you personally don't notice it, but asserting that LCD screens are equivalent to plasmas in off-angle viewing is retarded. It is not debatable whether LCDs wash their color out and fade off-angle...they do. And while I can't speak from experience, not being a professional screen reviewer, apparently they do it equally from the $12,000 screens you can't find in stores right down to the bottom-barrel lowest end screen at Best Buy.
PSN: TheScrublet
I went with the "cheap" plasma (got my Pio 5020FD @ $2300, then for $2000 after doing a price match at best buy this week). I've had it two weeks now, and I have punished the thing with games. I have the exact same gaming habits as you, mostly on the PS3 with some Wii at the moment. The first thing I noticed is that most games don't even have static images anymore...almost all the games I play either move the HUD (in response to motion) or hide things (like health when I'm not being hit). I've done three hour movies with black letterbox, etc., and never even seen image retention. I did a huge amount of reading in the two months leading up to this purchase trying to get a solid handle on burn-in. The following facts seem to be pretty reliable:
-It takes AWHILE to burn something in. You will have sufficient warning that you are doing so. During your marathon session, every few hours just watch something else for a few minutes and see if you notice any image retention (the correctible precursor to burn-in). If you see image retention, most TVs have a built-in feature to blow it away using preloaded screens. Most TVs also have a feature that you can run constantly in the background that imperceptibly shifts pixels to reduce the chance of burn-in.
-Treating the TV nice for its first 150 hours helps ensure that all the phosphors break-in evenly. They age/deteriorate the fastest during this time period...aging them evenly early on means that you will have to age specific pixels MUCH harsher later on to achieve burn-in.
If you don't mind dealing with that, plasma will be fine. If not, wait for LCD. The reason I'm willing to go pro-plasma right now is the insanely high price of LCDs...Samsung's newest LED line is $3,000+, and it doesn't even do local dimming like last year's A950 line did...and Sony is even MORE expensive!
Edit: I thought about it, are you intending on using this TV for WoW? I feel confident gaming with 99% of games, but the sheer amount of static images from some people's UI-mods plus the incredibly long, repeated sessions WoW usually encourages would make me concerned about a plasma. When I rebuild my comp I will probably reactivate WoW for the hell of it for a month or two but I am going to be damn careful the whole time.
PSN: TheScrublet
I don't notice color fading on my LCD until I'm watching it almost exactly to one side. It's still watchable at least.. when most everyone I've ever talked to acts like LCD screens disappear as soon as you view from anywhere except the exact center.
A weakness I can tolerate when the alternative is burn-in.