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legalize it! ALL OF IT, apparently.

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Posts

  • Loren MichaelLoren Michael Registered User regular
    "I smoke pot, and I like it."

    "The answer is no, I don't think that is a good strategy to grow our economy." President Obama said it with a chuckle last week at a town hall-style forum. The idea was for Obama to answer some questions about the economy submitted to the White House website. The most popular ones all had something to do with the virtues of legalizing and taxing marijuana. “I don’t know what this says about the online audience,” Obama joshed, and the good Americans assembled at the forum shared a little laugh. What does it say about the online audience? Maybe it says that advocates of marijuana legalization have hope that a president who once inhaled will, even in the middle of a recession, devote some attention to our country's disastrous drug policies.

    ...

    Did you know that the United States of America, the Land of the Free, puts a larger portion of its population behind bars than any country on earth? Thanks in large part to the War on Drugs, Americans lock more of their own in cages than do the thuggish Russians or those “Islamofascist” Saudis. As it happens, American drug prohibition and sentencing policies hit poor black men the hardest, devastating already disadvantaged black families and communities—a tragic, mocking contrast to the achievement of Obama’s election. Militarized police departments across the nation month after month kick down the wrong doors, terrify innocent families, shoot lawful citizens, and often kill the family dog.

    ...

    Barack Obama inhaled. “The point was to inhale,” he once smartly observed. But Obama also knows how to get elected president. Sadly, at this point in history, it remains a political liability to have become intoxicated on certain safe but illegal and stigmatized substances, like marijuana. Obama has said his past drug use was a regrettable youthful indiscretion, and he might even believe it. But why regret it? He managed to become president, didn’t he? It’s easy to laugh off the folks who jammed the White House switchboard when we imagine them as pranking “stoners,” and this picture of “the online audience” concedes the harmlessness of marijuana users while refusing to take them seriously. But why not imagine them as regular folks motivated by a love of liberty, justice, peace, and, sure, maybe a taste for grass? Why not imagine them as successful professionals, unlike Barack Obama only in political ambition?

    Marijuana is neither evil nor dangerous. Scientists have proven its medical uses. It has spared millions from anguish. But the casual pleasure marijuana has delivered is orders of magnitude greater than the pain it has assuaged, and pleasure matters too. That’s probably why Barack Obama smoked up the second and third times: because he liked it. That’s why tens of millions of Americans regularly take a puff, despite the misconceived laws meant to save us from our own wickedness.

    The Atlantic Monthly’s Andrew Sullivan has been documenting on his blog the stories of typical, productive Americans—kids’ football coaches, secretaries of the PTA—who smoke marijuana because they like to smoke marijuana, but who understandably fear emerging fully from the “cannabis closet.” This is a profoundly necessary idea. If we’re to begin to roll back our stupid and deadly drug war, the stigma of responsible drug use has got to end, and marijuana is the best place to start. The super-savvy Barack Obama managed to turn a buck by coming out of the cannabis (and cocaine) closet in a bestselling memoir. That’s progress. But his admission came with the politicians’ caveat of regret. We’ll make real progress when solid, upstanding folk come out of the cannabis closet, heads held high.

    So here we go. My name is Will Wilkinson. I smoke marijuana, and I like it.

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  • JamesKeenanJamesKeenan Registered User regular
    AAGHHHHH

    This whole goddamn issue just drives me insane. And it felt like a slap in the face the way Obama handled it. It was a smaller scale version of "Any weapons of mass destruction under here? No, what about here?"

  • electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    The answer is he's not going to show any interest in it while he's got other fish to fry. Man's a shrewd politician.

    Dis' wrote: »
    Cancer is when cells stop letting the body mooch off their hard work - clearly a community of like-minded cells should isolate themselves and do the best job each can do, even if the rest of the body collapses!
  • JamesKeenanJamesKeenan Registered User regular
    The answer is he's not going to show any interest in it while he's got other fish to fry. Man's a shrewd politician.

    I really think you, and a few people I talk to, in fact everyone who has ever tried to magic away debate with the line of reasoning "they've got bigger things to handle."

    Well, no shit there are other bigger issues. But

    1. They're usually severely underestimating the value of this issue. And

    2. They're seriously overestimating the time consumption of those other issues.


    It's not like politicians have all locked themselves in one single room. Quarantined until they can solve all the world's problem. They still take a ton of vacations, and spend hours and hours being as arduous and tedious and bureaucratic as possible.

    They could squeeze in the issue that sends near a million to jail a year for a completely harmless activity, based on ass-backwards moral legislation.

  • electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    That wasn't my point. My point is, it's political suicide to bring it up and the republicans would go nuts with it. Why bother at this phase of the game?

    Of course moreover, it's possible he really doesn't care for this issue - politicians do tend to have a list of things they want to accomplish and stick to it pretty closely - though again, same reason.

    Dis' wrote: »
    Cancer is when cells stop letting the body mooch off their hard work - clearly a community of like-minded cells should isolate themselves and do the best job each can do, even if the rest of the body collapses!
  • Loren MichaelLoren Michael Registered User regular
    That wasn't my point. My point is, it's political suicide to bring it up and the republicans would go nuts with it. Why bother at this phase of the game?

    Uh.

    The Republicans are already nuts.

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  • electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    Doesn't mean it wouldn't be needlessly divisive with the democrats in congress either.

    Dis' wrote: »
    Cancer is when cells stop letting the body mooch off their hard work - clearly a community of like-minded cells should isolate themselves and do the best job each can do, even if the rest of the body collapses!
  • Loren MichaelLoren Michael Registered User regular
    Not to mention, not all Republican institutions are rote anti-pot. The National Review has been anti-drug-war for a while.

    EDIT: by which I mean against the war on drugs.

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  • JamesKeenanJamesKeenan Registered User regular
    It shouldn't be political suicide. I don't like pot because I just enjoy getting stoned.

    This a hugely fucking pragmatic issue. I can't stand the fact that something that should be the RATIONAL course of action would be "political suicide."

    You know what, you might be right. Probably are. But I like to hope not, because it's just fucking sane.

    Someone needs to beat congress into having a debate about the issue where no moral platitudes are allowed unless backed up by real world consequences and weighed against the alternatives.

  • TommattTommatt Registered User regular
    Behind every great man, there is a woman. And every night, when george washington came home, martha had a fat ass bowl waiting for him. They knew it'd be a cash crop in the southern states.

    But seriously, this law is as outdated as being able to beat your wife on churchhouse steps on sundays.

    And you know what amazes me? Its the #1 issue on the fuckers website, every election year its a big debate in states. Hell, denver legalized it. 14 states have it legal for medical reasons. Yet, anybody in power just brushes it aside. Hey fucker, we elected you to deal with OUR ISSUES!! Guess what, to the normal population, who can't just do blow and get hookers whenver we want, IT IS AN ISSUE!

    but then again Im based as a mother fucker.

    And yes, I agree, we have bigger issues as a nation. However, it could help us recover from where we are.

    And my answer to the deficit? Tax toilet paper 3 cents a roll. NObody would notice it, everybody needs shitter paper, government profit?

    360 GT Tommatt
  • TommattTommatt Registered User regular

    Someone needs to beat congress into having a debate about the issue where no moral platitudes are allowed unless backed up by real world consequences and weighed against the alternatives.

    They're to busy doing cocaine and getting blow jobs from hookers in resturaunt bathrooms.

    360 GT Tommatt
  • RingoRingo Registered User regular
    After Obama's done hammering Healthcare through our idiot Congress, then he can get around to dealing with the pot issue. I realize that there are many small steps he can take in the meantime, but I think he's trying to position himself on getting as much as he can, as quickly as he can for reforming healthcare first. Most likely it's going to be a fight and a half even though we desperately need it. Once he's won and the economy is looking a bit better, it should be easier to say, "I was right here. I was right there. On this pot thing, we're going to do the right thing again."

    Of course I don't expect him to legalize it. But massively scale back the War on Drugs and try to reform our laws would be a good start.

    ceres wrote: »
    I'm just going to go ahead and lock this thread before I feel any worse about humanity.
    AUGMENTOS - Edcrab's Exigency RPG
  • archonwarparchonwarp Registered User regular
    It's not going to happen overnight, and the first steps are going to be at the state level. States should take the baby steps, and allow their people to speak their voice on the issue. When someone with enough balls and political clout, like Dennis Kucinich, is willing to go out a limb and push it forward into congress, and when there's enough statewide support available, it will happen. If you want to help out, talk about it with anyone who will listen and write your state's lawmakers. There's a LOT of momentum on the movement right now and that's what it will take.

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  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Fake Nerd I just want to be lovedRegistered User regular
    archonwarp wrote: »
    It's not going to happen overnight, and the first steps are going to be at the state level. States should take the baby steps, and allow their people to speak their voice on the issue. When someone with enough balls and political clout, like Dennis Kucinich, is willing to go out a limb and push it forward into congress, and when there's enough statewide support available, it will happen. If you want to help out, talk about it with anyone who will listen and write your state's lawmakers. There's a LOT of momentum on the movement right now and that's what it will take.

    When I think Kucinich, I don't think "political powerhouse".

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  • enc0reenc0re Registered User regular
    archonwarp wrote: »
    It's not going to happen overnight, and the first steps are going to be at the state level. States should take the baby steps, and allow their people to speak their voice on the issue. When someone with enough balls and political clout, like Dennis Kucinich, is willing to go out a limb and push it forward into congress, and when there's enough statewide support available, it will happen. If you want to help out, talk about it with anyone who will listen and write your state's lawmakers. There's a LOT of momentum on the movement right now and that's what it will take.

    I fear it will take more than that. The U.S. are signatories to the UN Single Convention on Narcotics. It does not allow for Marijuana to be legalized. Now, there is some legal wrangling on whether it must be criminalized. For now, decriminalization is the very best for which we can hope.

    Sadly, 55% of federal inmates are incarcerated for drug offenses. That comes out to half a million drug prisoners. That's not "just" an annual loss of at least $20 Billion of productivity and $20 Billion direct imprisonment cost, but also huge future social cost (single parenting, orphans, substance abuse, further criminalization, recidivism...).

    The War on Drugs is literally unreasonable.

  • archonwarparchonwarp Registered User regular
    enc0re wrote: »
    archonwarp wrote: »
    It's not going to happen overnight, and the first steps are going to be at the state level. States should take the baby steps, and allow their people to speak their voice on the issue. When someone with enough balls and political clout, like Dennis Kucinich, is willing to go out a limb and push it forward into congress, and when there's enough statewide support available, it will happen. If you want to help out, talk about it with anyone who will listen and write your state's lawmakers. There's a LOT of momentum on the movement right now and that's what it will take.

    I fear it will take more than that. The U.S. are signatories to the UN Single Convention on Narcotics. It does not allow for Marijuana to be legalized. Now, there is some legal wrangling on whether it must be criminalized. For now, decriminalization is the very best for which we can hope.

    Sadly, 55% of federal inmates are incarcerated for drug offenses. That comes out to half a million drug prisoners. That's not "just" an annual loss of at least $20 Billion of productivity and $20 Billion direct imprisonment cost, but also huge future social cost (single parenting, orphans, substance abuse, further criminalization, recidivism...).

    The War on Drugs is literally unreasonable.

    So true, which makes super frustrating that the issue is simply laughed at when anyone brings all of this up in any type of discussion. It's as though politicians need something to demonize and scapegoat, and this is the easiest issue.

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  • TL DRTL DR Registered User regular
    archonwarp wrote: »
    enc0re wrote: »
    archonwarp wrote: »
    It's not going to happen overnight, and the first steps are going to be at the state level. States should take the baby steps, and allow their people to speak their voice on the issue. When someone with enough balls and political clout, like Dennis Kucinich, is willing to go out a limb and push it forward into congress, and when there's enough statewide support available, it will happen. If you want to help out, talk about it with anyone who will listen and write your state's lawmakers. There's a LOT of momentum on the movement right now and that's what it will take.

    I fear it will take more than that. The U.S. are signatories to the UN Single Convention on Narcotics. It does not allow for Marijuana to be legalized. Now, there is some legal wrangling on whether it must be criminalized. For now, decriminalization is the very best for which we can hope.

    Sadly, 55% of federal inmates are incarcerated for drug offenses. That comes out to half a million drug prisoners. That's not "just" an annual loss of at least $20 Billion of productivity and $20 Billion direct imprisonment cost, but also huge future social cost (single parenting, orphans, substance abuse, further criminalization, recidivism...).

    The War on Drugs is literally unreasonable.

    So true, which makes super frustrating that the issue is simply laughed at when anyone brings all of this up in any type of discussion. It's as though politicians need something to demonize and scapegoat, and this is the easiest issue.

    Right. Druggies, terrorists, convicts, anyone even briefly suspected in a sex crime case... all demographics that nobody wants to stick up for.

    "Fucking drug smokers. I heard on the teevee that they want to be able to sell pot outside schools! Glad I don't know anyone that smokes that stuff, eh Fred?"

    "Uhh... yeaaaah.
    >.>
    <.<

    eokNV.jpg
  • TubularLuggageTubularLuggage Registered User regular
    Tommatt wrote: »
    And my answer to the deficit? Tax toilet paper 3 cents a roll. NObody would notice it, everybody needs shitter paper, government profit?

    Never underestimate the ability people have to get extremely outraged over extremely stupid things. There was recently an uproar in my province because the price of beer went up about 2-3 cents per can.

  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    enc0re wrote: »
    archonwarp wrote: »
    It's not going to happen overnight, and the first steps are going to be at the state level. States should take the baby steps, and allow their people to speak their voice on the issue. When someone with enough balls and political clout, like Dennis Kucinich, is willing to go out a limb and push it forward into congress, and when there's enough statewide support available, it will happen. If you want to help out, talk about it with anyone who will listen and write your state's lawmakers. There's a LOT of momentum on the movement right now and that's what it will take.

    I fear it will take more than that. The U.S. are signatories to the UN Single Convention on Narcotics. It does not allow for Marijuana to be legalized. Now, there is some legal wrangling on whether it must be criminalized. For now, decriminalization is the very best for which we can hope.

    Sadly, 55% of federal inmates are incarcerated for drug offenses. That comes out to half a million drug prisoners. That's not "just" an annual loss of at least $20 Billion of productivity and $20 Billion direct imprisonment cost, but also huge future social cost (single parenting, orphans, substance abuse, further criminalization, recidivism...).

    The War on Drugs is literally unreasonable.

    So what, we're actually abiding by treaties now?

    Seriously, if we really wanted to legalize marijuana do you think a UN convention would stop us, or that any other nation would honestly care if we pulled out of that treaty?

  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    The thing is, I don't think it would even be political suicide. I think there are very few people at this point who really believe that marijuana should be the reason for so much prison spending, and also very few who don't know multiple people who use, or have used it.

    I don't necessarily think that Obama should be the one out leading on weed deciminalization, but if some congressional reps with job security started floating legislation, I think there'd be more support than people think.

    hope? change? busproject.org
    my unofficial autobio will be accompanied with tips on how to smile
    cause I've found that when they don't see you frown, they never know that you're a threat
    and they don't sweat you when you came around
  • FeralFeral Who needs a medical license when you've got style? Registered User regular
    Feral wrote: »
    California's Prop 36 and DEJ (I think that stands for Deferred Entry of Justice but don't take my word for it) programs have the right idea.

    If you are caught in a nonviolent crime and you have drugs on your person or in your system, you can go through a very intense, court-mandated, long-term addiction recovery program. As long as you are complying with the program to your judge's satisfaction, and once you successfully complete the program, your criminal record related to the offense are sealed. Only law enforcement can access them - they do not show up on pre-employment background checks.

    I assume it's up to the judge whether to grant such an option? For instance, I doubt it would be available on a trafficking charge, right?

    edit: god dammit Res

    No, judges do not actually have discretion. If you meet the criteria, you are eligible. And yes, dealing is one of the eligible charges.

    That said, judges do set the difficulty of the program. They can make things really hard on you, expecting you to screw up. Once you screw up once, they have full discretion to kick you out of the program or forgive you.

    I am comforted by Richard Dawkins’ theory of memes. Those are mental units: thoughts, ideas, gestures, notions, songs, beliefs, rhymes, ideals, teachings, sayings, phrases, clichés that move from mind to mind as genes move from body to body. After a lifetime of writing, teaching, broadcasting and telling too many jokes, I will leave behind more memes than many. They will all also eventually die, but so it goes. - Roger Ebert, I Do Not Fear Death
  • FeralFeral Who needs a medical license when you've got style? Registered User regular
    I don't smoke pot, because I don't like it.

    I still think it should be legalized.

    I am comforted by Richard Dawkins’ theory of memes. Those are mental units: thoughts, ideas, gestures, notions, songs, beliefs, rhymes, ideals, teachings, sayings, phrases, clichés that move from mind to mind as genes move from body to body. After a lifetime of writing, teaching, broadcasting and telling too many jokes, I will leave behind more memes than many. They will all also eventually die, but so it goes. - Roger Ebert, I Do Not Fear Death
  • JamesKeenanJamesKeenan Registered User regular
    http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=portugal-drug-decriminalization

    http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2009/04/08/portugal/index.html

    More articles on the resounding success that decriminalization has been in Portgul.

    New AIDS cases from needles went down from 1,400 in 2000 to 400 in 2006. Users aren't just locked away, they're offered treatment. Drug use also declined, and the country didn't become a "drug haven" despite what critics have said, and a few have come out specifically to say that it hasn't.

  • CognisseurCognisseur Registered User
    http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=portugal-drug-decriminalization

    http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2009/04/08/portugal/index.html

    More articles on the resounding success that decriminalization has been in Portgul.

    New AIDS cases from needles went down from 1,400 in 2000 to 400 in 2006. Users aren't just locked away, they're offered treatment. Drug use also declined, and the country didn't become a "drug haven" despite what critics have said, and a few have come out specifically to say that it hasn't.

    This is just a repeat of abstinence-only sex education failure.

    Never have sex or ELSEEEEEE ends with lots of people having sex in stupid and dangerous ways.
    If you do have sex, do it safely and with protection ends with the same number of people having sex, but in safer and more intelligent ways.

    Same thing with drugs.
    Don't do drugs or you'll go to JAAAIIILLL ends with lots of people in jail.
    If you do have drugs, do it safely ends with a really charming Amsterdam community full of happy and friendly people.

  • Loren MichaelLoren Michael Registered User regular
  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Fake Nerd I just want to be lovedRegistered User regular

    I am skeptical of their results.

    Judging from what I saw on FOX news, the real reason pot helps is the pact you must make with The Devil before you can begin to toke up.

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