[Game On]SSB:Brawl - Over two years and we're still playing!

mntorankusu

I'm 2921-9334-1101, but I think we already have each other registered?

Strato

Cool, I'm getting on now.

Munkus Beaver

BTP wrote: »

Well, what do you know? Brawl is going to be a part of the MLG circuit this year.
http://www.mlgpro.com/content/page/302153/MLG-Announces-First-2010-Pro-Circuit-Details

What makes this even more interesting is that, over the last little while on SWF, they've been in a debate about banning Meta-Knight or at least trying out a 6 month temp ban in order to get some data for comparison (as in MK tourneys vs. No-MK tourneys). No decision had been made yet (although there was a lot of evidence showing they should try the temp ban), so this announcement has really made things uncertain.

The MK ban discussion is dumb. They should be trying to ban planking/scrooging/stalling instead. I've yet to see a single person try to make a coherent argument on why MK should be banned outside of those three elements.

Furthermore, ADHD plays Diddy and he seems to do pretty well.

Strato

Oh god, controller issues.

Coupled with being retarded.

Also Frostee joined

mntorankusu

That's the only time I've ever footstool killed someone on purpose in an online match!!

mntorankusu

Good games all!!

I have to go, now!!

That Spear Pillar match was awesome!!

Bye!!

Strato

My poor mangled joystick. Can't sit still.

I told myself I wouldn't buy a new controller til I got a job.

Frosteey

Good games.

My only attempt at Kirbycide ended in disaster : ( That was pretty great.

Glenn565

Good games guys, been a couple of months since I played. Took a little bit to get my groove back.

And that kill on Dream Land was the greatest.

Strato

Good games Toran, Frosteey, and Glenn!

BTP

Munkus Beaver wrote: »

BTP wrote: »

Well, what do you know? Brawl is going to be a part of the MLG circuit this year.
http://www.mlgpro.com/content/page/302153/MLG-Announces-First-2010-Pro-Circuit-Details

What makes this even more interesting is that, over the last little while on SWF, they've been in a debate about banning Meta-Knight or at least trying out a 6 month temp ban in order to get some data for comparison (as in MK tourneys vs. No-MK tourneys). No decision had been made yet (although there was a lot of evidence showing they should try the temp ban), so this announcement has really made things uncertain.

The MK ban discussion is dumb. They should be trying to ban planking/scrooging/stalling instead. I've yet to see a single person try to make a coherent argument on why MK should be banned outside of those three elements.

Furthermore, ADHD plays Diddy and he seems to do pretty well.

It's late for me, so maybe I'm not interpreting this correctly, but it sounds like you think banning MK due to his planking/scrooging/stalling ability are invalid arguments. Am I correct?

As for what you said about ADHD and Diddy, I have no idea who does what or plays as what. I'm completely ignorant on that kind of discussion. Sorry.

While on the subject, Smashboarders from Puerto Rico are saying that competitive Brawl in Puerto Rico as it is right now is effectively dead, mainly because of MK. As best as I can tell, it was a community of approximately 500 people a month and a half ago, and it is now down to 10 people at the most. This is not an exaggeration based on this quote from one of them: "If I were to count the remaining dedicated Brawl members in PR, it would be difficult to fill my fingers."

Munkus Beaver

You ban what causes the problem. The problem is A: the strategies and B: the people who would use the strategies.

Planking/Stalling/etc. are the reasons pushed forth to ban MK. I don't want to get into that. What I have wanted any pro-ban person to do was make the case for MK getting banned discounting Planking/Stalling/Etc. It's not legitimate.

It's a case of some people (jerks) discovering a way to 'break' the game (planking) and then some other people (stupids) using it as a rally cry to ban their pariah.

BTP

Munkus Beaver wrote: »

You ban what causes the problem. The problem is A: the strategies and B: the people who would use the strategies.

Planking/Stalling/etc. are the reasons pushed forth to ban MK. I don't want to get into that. What I have wanted any pro-ban person to do was make the case for MK getting banned discounting Planking/Stalling/Etc. It's not legitimate.

It's a case of some people (jerks) discovering a way to 'break' the game (planking) and then some other people (stupids) using it as a rally cry to ban their pariah.

I've done some digging around their forums for you.

"Why we can't wait to ban Metaknight"
This was posted on January 27. I've Ctrl+F'ed its OP for "plank", "scroog", and "stall", and it's not found in the OP or that page. The data in that OP uses tournaments with turnouts of 150 people or more since Brawl's release.

The next day, the guy who wrote that OP, "Overswarm", later did the same thing for tournaments with 100 or more people and it can be found here.

While there is probably more to that data that I can see right away, it shows that MK usage is increasing and at the same time overall tournament turnout is decreasing. (Correlation =/= Causation, I know, but Puerto Rico might disagree with that. I'm just saying what I'm seeing there.)

It all basically comes down to how much MK dominates the rest of the cast.

On February 16, another person, "Crow!", tried to determine if the stats gathered about MK's dominance are inflated due to popularity. Apparently that post proves that not only is that NOT true, but MK's dominance happens at ALL skill levels. At the same time, it ended up showing that MK is 3-27 times better than the rest of the cast (though I'm not sure how right now).

A quote from Overswarm in the first link speaking in layman's terms about Crow's data (which I won't link as they have sigs which approach NSFW):

His information shows that MK's dominance of the metagame is not only incredible, but is not due to popularity. It is also the case at ALL levels of play.

It also shows that the very top MK, Snake, and Diddy all perform well outside the bounds of the norm, meaning M2k, Ally, and ADHD are not indicative of any trends.

Edit: Holy crap there's more! Crow has broken down MK usage data compared to other top ranking characters from the last year, month by month. There is a continuing trend of increased MK usage shown, and in the charts it shows points when certain "large tourneys" happened. MK usage in "large tourneys" jumped from around 27% to 42% in a year.

Munkus Beaver

Overswarm in particular exaggerates data and creates inferences that aren't there. I have always had a very hard time to take him seriously, because he has a history of using data to prove things that the data doesn't prove.

AshtonDragon

People using Metaknight isn't why people are stopping playing Brawl competitively, though. They stop playing because high level matches involving a whole bunch of characters come down to playing defensively. I actually really enjoy playing against Metaknight (moreso than Snake, King DDD, or the Ice Climbers especially), but it all goes to hell as soon as someone starts safely poking with dairs and tornados without much else. I should dig up that tournament match where M2K annihilates Lain's Ice Climbers by camping on a platform the entire match.

I really don't think anything can be done to salvage it, perhaps to the glee of most casual players here. At least Melee is still awesome.

Speed Racer

Why is a defensive emphasis a bad thing? I'm not even arguing to the contrary, I just don't understand the position that the game is bad because it encourages long matches with lots of caution and defense.

Munkus Beaver

Because playing defense isn't as fun as playing offense, and because it's hard to come back from a deficit to win a match as a result.

AshtonDragon

Yeah, it's just a matter of fun for me. Fighting against a Snake who does nothing but grenades and forward tilts (with the occasional grab, or up tilt at high percents) just isn't enjoyable. Long matches are only a problem because those matches are also extremely boring. Eight minutes of lasers or Metaknight tornados? No thanks!

DarkMecha

Question: just grabbed a Wii in preparation for monster hunter tri, and am looking for something fun to tide me over - was thinking about Brawl or Tatsunoko vs Capcom and would love some advice!

I figured a fighting game with online play would be a fun option with alot of value. Brawl just looks totally nuts with the cool items, tons of modes, and fun roster of awesome characters - is this still played alot online? I have like one friend I could play with but mostly would be playing online if I got it.

Strato

DarkMecha wrote: »

Question: just grabbed a Wii in preparation for monster hunter tri, and am looking for something fun to tide me over - was thinking about Brawl or Tatsunoko vs Capcom and would love some advice!

I figured a fighting game with online play would be a fun option with alot of value. Brawl just looks totally nuts with the cool items, tons of modes, and fun roster of awesome characters - is this still played alot online? I have like one friend I could play with but mostly would be playing online if I got it.

I'm able to find random matches online, but they're basically restricted to 4-player 2 minute bouts, and when people leave you have to sit around and wait for someone else to join. It's not perfect, but enough to have some fun. It's an awesome game though.

We also play around here sometimes. Usually takes some initiative.

Anyone want to set up a Brawl later tonight?

agoaj

Tatsunoko has much better online than brawl. You can fight people across the country and have a good time. For Brawl, you'll want to stick to east coast/west coast area. Brawls online works but it's finicky.

You have to trade friendcodes for both games to play against specific people. www.allisbrawl.com is a great site to get a brawl game going.


Also, new hacking developments
Master Chief(Based on Falcon) Vs. Cloud(Based on Ike, but his moves have been altered)

Trynant

Time for more hacking talk, namely about one hack for the game: Brawl Minus (Brawl-).

This has to be the one reason I'm even remotely interested in the game anymore. Brawl- follows the philosophy of "if it ain't broken, break it until it gets better. If it is broken, act like it isn't and break it until it gets better." Instead of nerfs, every character (including Metaknight) has been improved. It's just that some have been so absurdly changed that the balance is shifted dramatically (to give you some idea, Bowser and Jigglypuff are pretty frackin' awesome right now, especially Bowser).

Some examples of how Brawl- is broken.

Samus Super Missile's freeze opponents.

Bowser has heavy armor for everything, meaning he's not being knocked around unless you do 10% damage or more to him.

Ice Climber's glaciers grow to enormous size given time (try this on the LoZ Temple level).

Snake's up smash shoots three mortars instead of one.

This list goes on. Every character is INSANE, and this is a good thing.

Hockey Johnston

Competitive people hate to hear it, but the items really solve all the balance problems in this game. 2v2 goes a long way towards that goal as well.

Smash Bros was never about 1v1s, and you have to do all kinds of weird bans to make it work if people are playing like there's money on the line.

LBD_Nytetrayn

Fun time at some relatives' house this past weekend.

Last time I was there, I knew that the kid had a Wii and Brawl. What I didn't know was that he didn't have any GameCube controllers, nor Classic. Either Wii Remote or WR+Nunchuk were my options. And with that handicap, I managed to break about even with him in the win/loss column.

When I left, I let him know that I would return prepared.

And last weekend, I kept true to my word.

The only way it would've been better is if I'd had The Miz's theme song playing as we got ready: "I came to play, there's a price to pay; time for you to get down on your knees and pray."

This time, there were three of us playing (since we had an extra controller), and I did pretty well, winning the vast majority of the matches, save for when they ganged up on me (bring it on) or I used a less-familiar character. Another one there was watching, and just got the biggest kick out of the fact that not only did I bring my own controller, but that they accepted the challenge. He kept comparing it to something like in the movies or on TV.

It was fun. Must be how Lucas felt when he whipped out the Power Glove in The Wizard, though my Cube controller sadly lacked any sort of special case.

BTP

Hockey Johnston wrote: »

Competitive people hate to hear it, but the items really solve all the balance problems in this game. 2v2 goes a long way towards that goal as well.

Smash Bros was never about 1v1s, and you have to do all kinds of weird bans to make it work if people are playing like there's money on the line.

Speaking of competition and items, why is it that the items are set to "off" and "none"? Why both of them? Needing both set that way sounds a bit overkill to me.

Glenn565

BTP wrote: »

Hockey Johnston wrote: »

Competitive people hate to hear it, but the items really solve all the balance problems in this game. 2v2 goes a long way towards that goal as well.

Smash Bros was never about 1v1s, and you have to do all kinds of weird bans to make it work if people are playing like there's money on the line.

Speaking of competition and items, why is it that the items are set to "off" and "none"? Why both of them? Needing both set that way sounds a bit overkill to me.

Peach and Dedede both can spawn certain items if individual items are set to on, even if you set spawns to none. Dedede can spawn Capsules and Peach can spawn Bob-ombs I believe.

BTP

Glenn565 wrote: »

BTP wrote: »

Hockey Johnston wrote: »

Competitive people hate to hear it, but the items really solve all the balance problems in this game. 2v2 goes a long way towards that goal as well.

Smash Bros was never about 1v1s, and you have to do all kinds of weird bans to make it work if people are playing like there's money on the line.

Speaking of competition and items, why is it that the items are set to "off" and "none"? Why both of them? Needing both set that way sounds a bit overkill to me.

Peach and Dedede both can spawn certain items if individual items are set to on, even if you set spawns to none. Dedede can spawn Capsules and Peach can spawn Bob-ombs I believe.

Okay, so that explains why items are set to "off". Now why do they afterwards also need to be set to "none"?

agoaj

BTP wrote: »

Glenn565 wrote: »

BTP wrote: »

Hockey Johnston wrote: »

Competitive people hate to hear it, but the items really solve all the balance problems in this game. 2v2 goes a long way towards that goal as well.

Smash Bros was never about 1v1s, and you have to do all kinds of weird bans to make it work if people are playing like there's money on the line.

Speaking of competition and items, why is it that the items are set to "off" and "none"? Why both of them? Needing both set that way sounds a bit overkill to me.

Peach and Dedede both can spawn certain items if individual items are set to on, even if you set spawns to none. Dedede can spawn Capsules and Peach can spawn Bob-ombs I believe.

Okay, so that explains why items are set to "off". Now why do they afterwards also need to be set to "none"?

Because if it's not none, capsules will still drop I think.

Strato

Any brawlers tonight?

Strato

Or today?

LBD_Nytetrayn

So, I finally got the image data (I think) off my SD card... but I forgot how to convert the images. Can anyone help?

agoaj

LBD_Nytetrayn wrote: »

So, I finally got the image data (I think) off my SD card... but I forgot how to convert the images. Can anyone help?

http://old-computer.org/blog/?p=15

LBD_Nytetrayn

Ah, thanks.

BTP

Well, if any of you still play Melee, you're going to be amazed at this one.

It is entirely possible to select Master Hand. No hacking, no cheat devices, but purely within the proper game.

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/episode-3-pop-fiction/701341

It takes some precise timing, but once you get it right......

MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

Spoiler:

That's supposed to be the Master Hand laugh.

Of course, it's still possible for the game to end up crashing during the use of Master Hand, so you still might want to exercise some caution.

TelMarine

haha, that is awesome

mntorankusu

The best thing to do with Master Hand is to go into Cruel Melee and just wail on those bastards for a while. When you quit, Mario's KO record is replaced with the record you got with Master Hand. Mine says something ridiculous like 440 KOs.

RockinX

I hate Melee, but I think I'll try it later when I get some time.

THEPAIN73

BTP wrote: »

Well, if any of you still play Melee, you're going to be amazed at this one.

It is entirely possible to select Master Hand. No hacking, no cheat devices, but purely within the proper game.

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/episode-3-pop-fiction/701341

It takes some precise timing, but once you get it right......

MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

Spoiler:

That's supposed to be the Master Hand laugh.

Of course, it's still possible for the game to end up crashing during the use of Master Hand, so you still might want to exercise some caution.

Holy shit I need to try this!

I like how this was just nw found out about.. 9 years after release.

forty

I saw that video earlier this week. Almost makes me want to look for my SSBM disc. Almost.

RockinX

Master Hand is boring. I just did 150 kills in Cruel Melee. I didn't get all the trophies, and I don't remember if I had any challenges left to do with the Multi-Man Melee, does anyone know/remember what trophies were obtainable through Multi-Man Melee?