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Representing Modern War in Video Games.

24

Posts

  • Ethan SmithEthan Smith Origin name: Beart4to Arlington, VARegistered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Deus Ex
    Spoiler:

    The desire to deprive some of our citizens of their rights—economic, civic or political—has the same basic motivation as actuates the Fascist mind when it seeks to dominate whole peoples and nations.
  • DukiDuki Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Also in COD4 there was that incredible segment where you're, I think, playing as a gunner on a helicopter. You see everything that you're doing through a black and white monitor. And you are blowing the hell out of some tiny little figures.

    It was surreal. War as a video game inside a video game about war.

  • Jason ToddJason Todd Registered User
    edited April 2009
    Duffel wrote: »
    ...how do you make a video game about existential angst...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planescape:_torment

    filefile.jpg
  • EvigilantEvigilant Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    I'm skeptical to how close they'll get it to the real battle. If you want to talk about sales, playability, and what not, a lot of modern war has to be trimmed, otherwise who going to play as the bad guy? What's the incentive? Just so you can say you pissed on some digital soldier? Of course, they could probably circumvent this by being only single player, but even then, what would the challenge be; especially where in the battle of Fallujah we basically leveled the city.

    Also, depending on how realistic and how close they get it to the memories I believe it should affect the game rating.

    "I hate war as only a soldier who has lived it can, only as one who has seen its brutality, its futility, its stupidity." Dwight D. Eisenhower
    Google+ Profile Origin: 13Evigilant Steam: Evigilant
  • QinguQingu Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Rent wrote: »
    Qingu wrote: »

    Edit: in light of these scenes, did you have any moral qualms with gunning down people in the game?
    That's a fair question....I didn't really have any moral qualms, but Infinity Ward made the point that just because you're on the "Good" side doesn't mean you always win, and that War is Hell, and that Might does not make Right.

    Of course, I'm also in the army, and I'm being deployed in a month and a half, so I kind of have to be black and white about those sorts of moral qualms. (There's no place in debating matters of who is right or wrong when motherfuckers be shooting at you and your squadmates. Sorry) That might've influenced my opinions whilst playing...the insurgents certainly do have a somewhat lukewarm good reason to fight against us, they're just going about it all wrong and being cocks about it, imo
    I dunno. Qingu I'm not the best to ask, you should probably ask a civilian who's played how they feel about COD4 since my perceptions are inherently skewed.
    I'm a bit tipsy now, but I think your perspective is quite interesting. And God bless you for going to Iraq and shit. I mean, I don't believe in God, but still.

    I guess maybe I should play this game to see what all the hulabaloo is about.

  • KhavallKhavall Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Yeah, Getting shot in the opening, getting Nuked, and the turret scene are great at showing how sides other than "SHOOT THE BAD GUYS YAY GO AMERICA" can be presented in video games. And it's even better that it comes in the 4th installment of what was previously a time-locked series of shooters.

    The turret scene was just disturbing. Shooting a huge shell that completely obliterates some white blips and hearing completely emotionally disconnected "ka-boom". It was wonderful

  • RentRent I'm always right Fuckin' deal with itRegistered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Qingu wrote: »
    I'm a bit tipsy now, but I think your perspective is quite interesting. And God bless you for going to Iraq and shit. I mean, I don't believe in God, but still.

    I guess maybe I should play this game to see what all the hulabaloo is about.
    Fucking unironically sigged. We coo', Qingu :D
    (Also, you should totally play COD4 because it is a fucking excellent game, besides being a pretty thoughful FPS)

  • AzioAzio Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    I think the problem with Vietnam wasn't that it's too hard to translate the conflict into a fun video game. It's no harder than making a video game about any given conflict. Add good level design and familiar gameplay, and let everyone have at it. The problem with Vietnam was that when developers started exploring it, computers and real-time rendering technology were too shitty to make the jungle look even remotely convincing. Everyone turned off grass in BF:V to get better performance, anyone who tried to "hide" in the foliage got shot, and it might as well have been a 1942 mod.

  • OrganichuOrganichu Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Yeah playing through CoD4 for the first time was insane in the membrane. Replaying it and knowing everything is coming is a lot more palatable and you feel more and more like a super man... but CoD4 on Veteran is just insane. I almost wish people could practice (and you'll need to in order to play it on Veteran because I'm very good at the game, logged well over a hundred hours in multiplayer, beat it on each difficulty multiple times... and I still die on Veteran pretty often) first without watching the cutscenes... then play it through.

    Because seriously, the ballsiness of the cinematics plus the realistic physics effects and hit detection plus the super steep learning curve... it's probably the most immersive and authentic war experience ever.

    XMSODhjrer45.gif
  • ShadowfireShadowfire Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Duki wrote: »
    Also in COD4 there was that incredible segment where you're, I think, playing as a gunner on a helicopter. You see everything that you're doing through a black and white monitor. And you are blowing the hell out of some tiny little figures.

    It was surreal. War as a video game inside a video game about war.

    ac130.jpg

    AC-130 Spectre. Yea, that scene was actually really powerful to me. It wasn't even particularly fun, just... big impact.

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    WiiU: Windrunner ; Guild Wars 2: Shadowfire.3940 ; PSN: Bradcopter
  • override367override367 Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    The shocking part of it was how much like an actual video from a gunship it looked. How the crew of the gunship made little quips as you vaporized dozens of people who have no hope at striking back at you. Good stuff.

    Boom

    There's a video of an actual AC-130 from afghanistan on youtube and it's a little scary how similar it looks

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  • South hostSouth host I obey without question Registered User regular
    edited April 2009

    Although in the end you "win", there's so many people killed. It's inescapable that millions of civilians die as a direct result of the actions of the good guys. We never actually see any of these civilians, but in one mission as you're approaching a village, the forces there (emboldened by the victory against the americans in imaginarymuslimcountry) are heard executing civilians out of view.
    In one of the missions, if you're too slow, an old man get executed in front of you.

    Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    emnmnme wrote: »
    Similarly, I can't bring myself to even look at Kane & Lynch. It's a mediocre shooter but from previews it looks like you're more involved with killing dozens of cops instead of focusing on a clean getaway. Cop killing ain't cool. :(

    This does bring up an interesting point--killing police officers isn't acceptable for obvious reasons, but what about shooting down German bomber-interceptors?

    I mean, after all, those certain FW-190s were specifically intended to shoot down those B-17s, etc.--bombers that were going to drop bombs and kill, rather than soldiers or the like, innocent civilians--even noncombatants forced to work for Germany itself. In that sense, those fighters were saving both the lives of innocent Germans and those who forced into slave-labor, like Red Army POWs.

    Personally, as deplorable as I find many of Germany's behavior during the war, I see those bomber-interceptors (either German or Japanese) as doing something easily as honorable as being a police officer, protecting people from crime. Every bomber they managed to down could potentially mean saving hundreds or even thousands of lives. I really can't think of many things more noble in the horrors of war than saving noncombatants from a threat they have effectively no defense against. To defend your own comrades is one thing--how about protecting civilian lives from a death from a bomb dropped at 8,000 meters?

    Of course, it's not that simple. Those bombers were intended to break the infrastructure and bring a quick end to the war, something that would, in theory, save lives (particularly those on your side). I just presented this as an example--a dutiful cop versus a bomber hunter. The same could be said about Allied bomber hunters, except that Axis bombing raids never reached a comparable scope (even Shanghai's bombing pales in comparison). I wouldn't recommend looking at games too far for that reason--for me, in GTAIV or in Kane & Lynch, a cop is simply another human entity (and not even a real one at that). Call of Duty games have me killing wave after wave of nameless 'foreigners'--they're no different from police in that they're fictional entities.

    Of course, that's just my view on the subject. Then again, I do take a certain pride in IL-2 Sturmovik hunting Allied bombers in the Luftwaffe and IJA campaigns. It's nice to think that every bomber you bring down is 20,000 less bombs that will land in some neighborhood somewhere.

    (This is me trying to keep the subject on war)

    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
  • DrakeDrake Blow it all up ForeverRegistered User regular
    edited April 2009
    I think that no matter how realistic a video game is made, it's goddamn silly to ever think it's anything like real war. Same way a driving simulator is nothing like real driving.

    The only people who don't seem to understand this are kids. And, honestly, I'm sure our government is more than happy for kids to think war is like a video game.

    Do you really think there are people consciously thinking "I'm glad our kids don't understand that war is one of the most horrible things imaginable, and that it destroys people whether they live or die, and ruins millions of lives; that means we can manipulate them more effectively!" ?

    I find it hard to believe.

    "Military men are just dumb stupid animals to be used as pawns in foreign policy." - Henry Kissinger, quoted in "Kiss the Boys Goodbye: How the United States Betrayed Its Own POW's in Vietnam"

    edit: Kissinger is a bastard.

  • Ethan SmithEthan Smith Origin name: Beart4to Arlington, VARegistered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Drake wrote: »
    I think that no matter how realistic a video game is made, it's goddamn silly to ever think it's anything like real war. Same way a driving simulator is nothing like real driving.

    The only people who don't seem to understand this are kids. And, honestly, I'm sure our government is more than happy for kids to think war is like a video game.

    Do you really think there are people consciously thinking "I'm glad our kids don't understand that war is one of the most horrible things imaginable, and that it destroys people whether they live or die, and ruins millions of lives; that means we can manipulate them more effectively!" ?

    I find it hard to believe.

    "Military men are just dumb stupid animals to be used as pawns in foreign policy." - Henry Kissinger, quoted in "Kiss the Boys Goodbye: How the United States Betrayed Its Own POW's in Vietnam"

    edit: Kissinger is a bastard.

    " Nobody will ever win the battle of the sexes. There’s too much fraternizing with the enemy. "

    This one's pretty good though.

    The desire to deprive some of our citizens of their rights—economic, civic or political—has the same basic motivation as actuates the Fascist mind when it seeks to dominate whole peoples and nations.
  • darksteeldarksteel Registered User
    edited April 2009
    The AC-130 part in Call of Duty 4 is just bone chilling. They tell you to engage all targets without the flashing strobe lights. You pass over a church with some people streaming out. Your pilot asks for clearance to engage potential threats to the ground force. Command responds by saying "you are clear to engage any and all targets not marked with a flashing strobe."

    I only realized later they were probably civilians.

    shikisig6-1.jpg
  • MrMonroeMrMonroe Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    I apologize if I missed it reading the thread, but,

    If it is unreasonable or distasteful to make a video game about a current conflict, then MASH was an absolute atrocity.

  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Honk wrote: »
    BubbaT wrote: »
    Rent wrote: »
    Qingu wrote: »

    Edit: in light of these scenes, did you have any moral qualms with gunning down people in the game?
    That's a fair question....I didn't really have any moral qualms, but Infinity Ward made the point that just because you're on the "Good" side doesn't mean you always win, and that War is Hell, and that Might does not make Right.

    I'd also submit the barn scene in Brothers in Arms: Hell's Highway.
    Spoiler:

    Isn't that more of a "the Germans are super-evil swine" message though? Though I agree there's some touching scenes in that game.

    It is based on a real thing that happened. Whilst researching Market Garden, Gearbox came across a report or interview or something. Some GIs found that barn and the woman hanging inside of it. (There is a BiA:HH video on XBL where the mention this. Could be on YouTube or something...)

    Brothers in Arms does make a few concessions to the nature of video games (squad members 'respawning' during the mission and such). But it also tries really hard to at least remind the player that war isn't supposed to be fun. Also, since it's from the allied perspective, I kind of expect the Germans to come off a bit more villainous. Like Rent kind of mentions, if you're not on the battlefield ready to kill the enemy, then you aren't going to be any good to your squad.

    PAsig5.png
    You're muckin' with a G!
  • DrakeDrake Blow it all up ForeverRegistered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Drake wrote: »
    I think that no matter how realistic a video game is made, it's goddamn silly to ever think it's anything like real war. Same way a driving simulator is nothing like real driving.

    The only people who don't seem to understand this are kids. And, honestly, I'm sure our government is more than happy for kids to think war is like a video game.

    Do you really think there are people consciously thinking "I'm glad our kids don't understand that war is one of the most horrible things imaginable, and that it destroys people whether they live or die, and ruins millions of lives; that means we can manipulate them more effectively!" ?

    I find it hard to believe.

    "Military men are just dumb stupid animals to be used as pawns in foreign policy." - Henry Kissinger, quoted in "Kiss the Boys Goodbye: How the United States Betrayed Its Own POW's in Vietnam"

    edit: Kissinger is a bastard.

    " Nobody will ever win the battle of the sexes. There’s too much fraternizing with the enemy. "

    This one's pretty good though.

    I'll bet Hitler could throw out a good one liner every now and then.

    On the topic of modern warfare in games, I'll chime in with some of what I wrote in Galenblades thread. An action game at best can convey the "war sucks" idea and at worst "it's awesome to shoot people." That's why I'd hoped that this Six Days in Fallujah would be a strategy game, especially since that's what Atomic is known for (the original Close Combat games) producing.

    Strategy war games allow for a deeper understanding (in my opinion anyway) of both sides of a conflict, allow for more exploration of hypotheticals. Consider a game where you are given a set of objectives delivered as policy. How do you implement this policy? Do you bomb the hospital that has been taken over by the insurgents? What are the appropriate Rules of Engagement that will limit civilian casualties to their lowest potential? Is it acceptable that these RoE put your men at greater risk? These are the kinds of things that I would like to see in a game about modern war. This kind of gaming could truly be an educational experience, even if what you learn is the futility of the situation. Hell, I think that could be the most useful thing that a war game could teach.

    edit: And I'll also say, as I did in the other thread, that I could totally be proven wrong about Atomic's new game, and they may deliver something unique and worthwhile.

  • South hostSouth host I obey without question Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    darksteel wrote: »
    The AC-130 part in Call of Duty 4 is just bone chilling. They tell you to engage all targets without the flashing strobe lights. You pass over a church with some people streaming out. Your pilot asks for clearance to engage potential threats to the ground force. Command responds by saying "you are clear to engage any and all targets not marked with a flashing strobe."

    I only realized later they were probably civilians.

    Nah, The ultranationalists did a pretty good job of killing the civilians on their own. And I think you can see them carrying rifles if you zoom in enough.
    *edit* Yeah, you can see rifles.

    Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
  • GungHoGungHo Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    MrMonroe wrote: »
    I apologize if I missed it reading the thread, but,

    If it is unreasonable or distasteful to make a video game about a current conflict, then MASH was an absolute atrocity.
    MASH was set in Korea?

    "Adios, mofo" -- TX Gov Rick Perry (R)
  • BloodySlothBloodySloth Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    GungHo wrote: »
    MrMonroe wrote: »
    I apologize if I missed it reading the thread, but,

    If it is unreasonable or distasteful to make a video game about a current conflict, then MASH was an absolute atrocity.
    MASH was set in Korea?

    Yep.

  • RentRent I'm always right Fuckin' deal with itRegistered User regular
    edited April 2009
    GungHo wrote: »
    MrMonroe wrote: »
    I apologize if I missed it reading the thread, but,

    If it is unreasonable or distasteful to make a video game about a current conflict, then MASH was an absolute atrocity.
    MASH was set in Korea?

    Yep.


    Not only that, but MASH's creator even stated that MASH was set in Korea to be a direct analogy to Vietnam, which was the current hot-button topic
    So it was doubly about a current conflict

  • ZombiemamboZombiemambo Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    ...Is a bad idea because the medium hasn't become mature enough to handle it. Even if it does it well, nobody's going to notice, they'll just see it as tragedy-turned-game.

    JKKaAGp.png
  • KhavallKhavall Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    ...Is a bad idea because the medium hasn't become mature enough to handle it. Even if it does it well, nobody's going to notice, they'll just see it as tragedy-turned-game.

    And how do we make the industry mature, class?

    HINT: It's not by releasing DOOM over and over again until we decide it's time and we've magically reached the point where it works.

  • BloodySlothBloodySloth Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    The medium isn't ever going to mature unless people try to make mature games, and this is precisely what is happening. Like Khavall says, video games aren't going to just magically become a "mature medium" after a predetermined period of time.

  • ScalfinScalfin __BANNED USERS regular
    edited April 2009
    Rent wrote: »
    GungHo wrote: »
    MrMonroe wrote: »
    I apologize if I missed it reading the thread, but,

    If it is unreasonable or distasteful to make a video game about a current conflict, then MASH was an absolute atrocity.
    MASH was set in Korea?

    Yep.


    Not only that, but MASH's creator even stated that MASH was set in Korea to be a direct analogy to Vietnam, which was the current hot-button topic
    So it was doubly about a current conflict

    I still think somebody should reboot MASH in Afghanistan while making allusions to Iraq.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    The rest of you, I fucking hate you for the fact that I now have a blue dot on this god awful thread.
  • JacobkoshJacobkosh Gamble a stamp. I can show you how to be a real man!Super Moderator, Moderator mod
    edited April 2009
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    As long as we are talking about COD4 don't forget where you are manning the weapons in that gunship through the little nightvision TV camera. It's so impersonal and distant and your team-mates cheer your on. I don't know, it really captured the horror and disconnect of modern war to me.

    Yeah, that part was definitely a sterling example of art in games. I remember my friend was playing the game on his big screen and several of us were gathered in the living room, and that bit came up and the collective mood quickly went from "oh cool" to disbelieving laughter to D:D:D:

    Other games have achieved that, but often by accident. I loved all the old Rainbow Six and Ghost Recon games on PC, but felt a bit oogy sometimes gunning down enemies explicitly described in the briefing as "leftist students". I had this friend at the time who would actually yell at me for playing the "fascism simulation" and while he was a dick I think he sometimes had a point.

  • ArrathArrath Registered User
    edited April 2009
    Qingu wrote: »
    Rent wrote: »
    Qingu wrote: »
    What war games were not shallow and meaningless?

    What games actually added to your understanding of the moral complexity and suffering involved in warfare?
    COD4's intro and nuclear blast scene were the two greatest storytelling moments in FPS history
    ...that's not exactly saying much.

    Can you explain why they were so meaningful? Or should I just look at them on Youtube?

    Edit: in light of these scenes, did you have any moral qualms with gunning down people in the game?

    The greatest thing COD4 did story wise was presenting the good guys not as supermen who make the world a better place. The US invasion fails, thousands of servicemen are killed, the entire area is destabilized, and America's enemies are emboldened.

    Although in the end you "win", there's so many people killed. It's inescapable that millions of civilians die as a direct result of the actions of the good guys. We never actually see any of these civilians, but in one mission as you're approaching a village, the forces there (emboldened by the victory against the americans in imaginarymuslimcountry) are heard executing civilians out of view.

    Another thing, the nuclear scene, you only die because you go back to save a single downed pilot. Being the hero gets you and everyone with you killed.



    I think a game could perhaps go further than that, but expecting much more is being unrealistic.

    And even though you 'win' in the end its still pretty bleak. Not only the nuking, civilian executions, etc that you mention, but in the finale scene you watch helplessly as two squad members get executed and later the screen fades to black as you watch a soldier try (seemingly in vain, but its vague) to revive your commanding officer.

    CoD4 did a great job of portraying war in a way that a majority of games haven't even tried.

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  • darksteeldarksteel Registered User
    edited April 2009
    South host wrote: »
    darksteel wrote: »
    The AC-130 part in Call of Duty 4 is just bone chilling. They tell you to engage all targets without the flashing strobe lights. You pass over a church with some people streaming out. Your pilot asks for clearance to engage potential threats to the ground force. Command responds by saying "you are clear to engage any and all targets not marked with a flashing strobe."

    I only realized later they were probably civilians.

    Nah, The ultranationalists did a pretty good job of killing the civilians on their own. And I think you can see them carrying rifles if you zoom in enough.
    *edit* Yeah, you can see rifles.

    Still, what about the part in the start where you shoot the crew of the Estonian freighter? They were pretty harmless.

    shikisig6-1.jpg
  • ZombiemamboZombiemambo Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Khavall wrote: »
    ...Is a bad idea because the medium hasn't become mature enough to handle it. Even if it does it well, nobody's going to notice, they'll just see it as tragedy-turned-game.

    And how do we make the industry mature, class?

    HINT: It's not by releasing DOOM over and over again until we decide it's time and we've magically reached the point where it works.

    There's a pretty big gap between DOOM and this. We should probably bridge that gap before tackling politics.

    JKKaAGp.png
  • HonkHonk Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited April 2009
    Wow, you guys got a whole other experience from CoD4 than me... It was good, but I can't recall feeling anything other than that it was a well directed action game in which I kill everything that moves. C-130 part was visually quite realistic though.

  • HozHoz Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    darksteel wrote: »
    Still, what about the part in the start where you shoot the crew of the Estonian freighter? They were pretty harmless.
    Besides the AKs they're using to guard the nuclear weapon, I guess so.

  • MorninglordMorninglord Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Those video monitors are likely black and white and display what they display to dehumanize what is happening and remove the soldier from the situation. It also makes it easier to tell what is a target as well though and apply all their fancy pants seeing through the wall stuff.

    I also don't mean to insinuate this is some big conspiracy, I should really say that as well as being deliberately designed that way, it could be they have that effect because of the nature of the fancy pants wall seeing toys.

    You may choose whichever explanation is more pleasing to you.

    But shit if I was designing a machine for soldiers I'd probably do that. Not that I would want to design such a thing.

    Regardless, the point is it dehumanizes whats happening, which is an important thing to remember.

    I'm not making a moral point, I'm just saying it matches up to what I know about how humans work. It makes sense they would be like that, the impersonal comments and whatnot.
    I don't take any of it as reflective of the person involved, they're doing the job they are told to do.

    My Dark Souls 2 Diary
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  • darksteeldarksteel Registered User
    edited April 2009
    Hoz wrote: »
    darksteel wrote: »
    Still, what about the part in the start where you shoot the crew of the Estonian freighter? They were pretty harmless.
    Besides the AKs they're using to guard the nuclear weapon, I guess so.

    Sure, the security detail was armed, but the crew wasn't. Remember the briefing?

    Cpt. Price: ...it has a crew and a small security detail.
    Gaz: Rules of engagement, sir?
    Cpt. Price: Crew expendable.

    I'd imagine the first bogies you eliminated (i.e. the bridge crew and the guys in the crew quarters) probably had no idea what they were carrying.

    shikisig6-1.jpg
  • HonkHonk Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited April 2009
    darksteel wrote: »
    Hoz wrote: »
    darksteel wrote: »
    Still, what about the part in the start where you shoot the crew of the Estonian freighter? They were pretty harmless.
    Besides the AKs they're using to guard the nuclear weapon, I guess so.

    Sure, the security detail was armed, but the crew wasn't. Remember the briefing?

    Cpt. Price: ...it has a crew and a small security detail.
    Gaz: Rules of engagement, sir?
    Cpt. Price: Crew expendable.

    I'd imagine the first bogies you eliminated (i.e. the bridge crew and the guys in the crew quarters) probably had no idea what they were carrying.

    As far as I recall, everyone on that ship was armed. There was some drunk guy in a corridor, even he was armed.

  • MorninglordMorninglord Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    A soldiers training is such that if they are armed or they might possibly be armed and the likelyhood of determining so is almost impossible and the situations is as dire as the one you are describing, they shoot to kill.

    They are not fancy police.

    My Dark Souls 2 Diary
    (PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
  • HozHoz Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Those video monitors are likely black and white and display what they display to dehumanize what is happening and remove the soldier from the situation. It also makes it easier to tell what is a target as well though and apply all their fancy pants seeing through the wall stuff.

    I also don't mean to insinuate this is some big conspiracy, I should really say that as well as being deliberately designed that way, it could be they have that effect because of the nature of the fancy pants wall seeing toys.
    There are thousands of soldiers that get their kill on up close and personal and in the glory of technicolor. They are not going to design any piece technology to detach a few airmen from their deeds. It's purely practical.

    But I gotta say, I've seen a pilot demonstrate a few reels of bombing runs and he acted like he was watching footage of himself playing basketball. It was creepy as hell.

  • AzioAzio Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Those video monitors are likely black and white and display what they display to dehumanize what is happening and remove the soldier from the situation. It also makes it easier to tell what is a target as well though and apply all their fancy pants seeing through the wall stuff.
    No, they're black and white because the cameras scan on infrared frequencies.

    Shocking, I know.

  • postinonthenetspostinonthenets Registered User
    edited April 2009
    Honk wrote: »
    darksteel wrote: »
    Hoz wrote: »
    darksteel wrote: »
    Still, what about the part in the start where you shoot the crew of the Estonian freighter? They were pretty harmless.
    Besides the AKs they're using to guard the nuclear weapon, I guess so.

    Sure, the security detail was armed, but the crew wasn't. Remember the briefing?

    Cpt. Price: ...it has a crew and a small security detail.
    Gaz: Rules of engagement, sir?
    Cpt. Price: Crew expendable.

    I'd imagine the first bogies you eliminated (i.e. the bridge crew and the guys in the crew quarters) probably had no idea what they were carrying.

    As far as I recall, everyone on that ship was armed. There was some drunk guy in a corridor, even he was armed.

    Pretty sure I remember shooting two guys in their bunks. Just sayin'.

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