Man people actually schedule raids and stuff? That looks a hell of a lot like a job.
Raids are just another group activity. Replace the word raids with any of the following:
soccer games
dates
seeing a movie
going out for food
parties
Any time you have more than one person taking part in something, you're going to have to do some scheduling.
That's not really the same kind of scheduling though is it. If I had my week set out as Go Out For Drinks 7PM Monday Cinema 8pm Tuesday Sports Game Wednesday etc it'd be pretty weird. Actual social engagements are a lot looser, that raid schedule is laid out like a work timetable.
Man people actually schedule raids and stuff? That looks a hell of a lot like a job.
Raids are just another group activity. Replace the word raids with any of the following:
soccer games
dates
seeing a movie
going out for food
parties
Any time you have more than one person taking part in something, you're going to have to do some scheduling.
That's not really the same kind of scheduling though is it. If I had my week set out as Go Out For Drinks 7PM Monday Cinema 8pm Tuesday Sports Game Wednesday etc it'd be pretty weird. Actual social engagements are a lot looser, that raid schedule is laid out like a work timetable.
To each their own, but I usually have to plan things out more than a couple of hours in advance.
Man people actually schedule raids and stuff? That looks a hell of a lot like a job.
Raids are just another group activity. Replace the word raids with any of the following:
soccer games
dates
seeing a movie
going out for food
parties
Any time you have more than one person taking part in something, you're going to have to do some scheduling.
That's not really the same kind of scheduling though is it. If I had my week set out as Go Out For Drinks 7PM Monday Cinema 8pm Tuesday Sports Game Wednesday etc it'd be pretty weird. Actual social engagements are a lot looser, that raid schedule is laid out like a work timetable.
It was. We did have a good portion of people who could Iron Man it. Remember out of over 100 level 60s I think most maintained about 2/3 raid attendence. Some would be around half. Some were just mostly pvpers who would join the raid if needed or if it was going to be a dungeon we had on farm (BWL, AQ40 eventually). They all made the choice. No one forced anyone to go, I would do about 4 out of 6 raids a week (Id skip the farm dungeons) and just goto progression raids.
Man people actually schedule raids and stuff? That looks a hell of a lot like a job.
Raids are just another group activity. Replace the word raids with any of the following:
soccer games
dates
seeing a movie
going out for food
parties
Any time you have more than one person taking part in something, you're going to have to do some scheduling.
That's not really the same kind of scheduling though is it. If I had my week set out as Go Out For Drinks 7PM Monday Cinema 8pm Tuesday Sports Game Wednesday etc it'd be pretty weird. Actual social engagements are a lot looser, that raid schedule is laid out like a work timetable.
Monday nights, friends come over to watch House. Wednesdays, they come over for Lost. Same time, each week. Flag football league? That's dates and times. Date with girlfriend? Date and time.
Perhaps playing WoW 7 days a week is more schedule than you stick to, but that's just a matter of degree, not a different entity altogether. That doesn't even sound that weird then.
If he spends 10 years of his life enjoying that kind of social interaction and validation, who are you to judge? I look back on my time with WOW as good times. Will never play it again because my son is too old for that and my friends have mostly all moved on from it.
This seems to rest on the assumption that just because he is spending the time doing that, that he really wants to be spending his time doing that.
So hes playing a game constantly because he hates playing it? I dunno if youve played wow or not but its pretty damn validating and almost always fun. Its easy to find something engaging and rewarding to do and there is always social interaction to be had. Im not saying its the best thing nor do I disagree that it is physically and perhaps socially determental in extremes. But that is anything on extremes. People are not addicted to WOW, COD4, or any other game. They are hooked on the validation and persistant rewards bit that wraps around the entire social communal aspect. Theres a reason people are not addicted to say, RE5 or something. I say let them play.
I play CoV in fits and spurts and honestly if an ITF takes more than an hour and a half everyone bitches. I can't imagine playing a game you actually have to schedule
Dunno, you have to schedule amateur sports games, D&D sessions, card games, poker night, etc.
Don't read this as a defense of "I WILL NOT GO OUTSIDE MUST RAID MUST RAID!" but I don't think there's some sacred rule that "scheduling" and "videogames" must be kept separate. If you're going to play any group-oriented game on a somewhat competitive level you'll probably need to do some scheduling. Note "some scheduling," doing one night a week of hard raiding or skirmishing in Counterstrike or whatever is not the same as giving up sunshine so you can have more purples.
On-topic for the OP, I'd recommend trying to talk your friend into being more social, not trying to get him to quit the game cold turkey. Ideally you want to reinforce "RL > WoW" and let him make his own conclusions.
It sounds like your friend's WoW condition is pretty bad (interrupting real-life social get togethers to raid). You might want to apply some very careful pressure on your friend to illustrate the destructive effect this is having on his social life. Be very cautious if you make this approach, but you could try to communicate what he's giving up (particularly from your perspective) for his addiction. "We used to play D&D / go drinking / watch shitty movies / etc. etc." The careful part has to be that you don't come off as heavy-handed or moralizing. Make it about "we used to do fun stuff" and not "I'm your parent you play too much WoW!"
Ultimately, and unfortunately, it is his choice to make. Offer him a way out, and perhaps remind him that he still has a way to "escape" WoW, but don't feel that it is your obligation to save him. WoW can be dangerous in that it combines many potentially addictive activities (online networking, group obligations, constant rewards for participation, etc.) Hopefully your friend brings his playtime under control, its always a shame to see a gamer go bad.
I had over 365 days /played when I quit a little over 2 years after game came out.
That's 8736 hours in two years, right? Of the 17472 hours available in two years? When a full time job is only 4160 hours in two years? So essentially you were putting in the work of two fulltime jobs playing WoW?
I have to call bullshit on that. It's not even possible to play the game that much. How would you live? When would you sleep?
I'm usually on WoW's side in these arguments, but there are some freaks out there.
For the final month of the grind, he spent over $500 on two things: Diet Mountain Dew (because it contains more caffeine than regular Mountain Dew) and alcohol. "It's the only way I could endure playing, to be totally numb, detached... only when I was within a week of finishing did I stop drinking to maintain optimal reaction time."
"I'm doing 15 hours per day, minimum," Mitenka admitted
Although, in fairness, Blizz realized that depreciating honor and rank based PVP was bullshit because it lead to things like that, and got rid of it with TBC.
So hes playing a game constantly because he hates playing it? I dunno if youve played wow or not but its pretty damn validating and almost always fun. Its easy to find something engaging and rewarding to do and there is always social interaction to be had. Im not saying its the best thing nor do I disagree that it is physically and perhaps socially determental in extremes. But that is anything on extremes. People are not addicted to WOW, COD4, or any other game. They are hooked on the validation and persistant rewards bit that wraps around the entire social communal aspect. Theres a reason people are not addicted to say, RE5 or something. I say let them play.
I'm very much speaking from experience. I had a sort of fun-simulacrum, a thin veneer of fun, but I very nearly always had much more fun going out, but the very next day when I was at home, I'd be too stuck to the game to go out again.
I was engaged in the game, yes. But I was not really happy doing it.
But if they don't come over for Lost, no biggie right? There's no penalty associated with it, and there is for non-attendance in raids.
Well sure, you can pick and choose some events as having no penalty associated, but that's true in MMORPGs too. Horde were raiding Alliance cities at midnight, you could come if you want, but you wouldn't be punished if you didn't.
Inversely, there are definitely real-life engagements with penalties for absence. Dates, football games, birthday parties, etc.
The HWL grind was extremely brutal and depended on who you were competing with for the title. If anyone is unfamiliar with the game that is no longer unattainable and cannot be pursued. Like I said we had over a dozen of our guildmates do the grind but rarely on their own. I know our first HWL was actually done by 3 people on the same account.
But if they don't come over for Lost, no biggie right? There's no penalty associated with it, and there is for non-attendance in raids.
I'd say board games, role-playing, and group sports are a more apt comparison, as all require a minimum level of attendance for the activity to commence.
That said, I did play WoW and refused on principle to be party of any guild that had "mandatory" attendance. Some people are fine with that, if you want to commit X nights to raiding that isn't necessarily a bad thing, but if "X" is "7" then you've probably sacrificed your health, social life, and outside hobbies for fancy purples that will be completely worthless when the next expansion hits in 12-16 months.
I guess what I'm getting at is its all a matter of perspective and moderation.
So hes playing a game constantly because he hates playing it? I dunno if youve played wow or not but its pretty damn validating and almost always fun. Its easy to find something engaging and rewarding to do and there is always social interaction to be had. Im not saying its the best thing nor do I disagree that it is physically and perhaps socially determental in extremes. But that is anything on extremes. People are not addicted to WOW, COD4, or any other game. They are hooked on the validation and persistant rewards bit that wraps around the entire social communal aspect. Theres a reason people are not addicted to say, RE5 or something. I say let them play.
I'm very much speaking from experience. I had a sort of fun-simulacrum, a thin veneer of fun, but I very nearly always had much more fun going out, but the very next day when I was at home, I'd be too stuck to the game to go out again.
I was engaged in the game, yes. But I was not really happy doing it.
I want to 2nd the notion that it's very easy to play a game, even a fun game, and not be having fun.
Kill 1 golem -- COOL! Kill 10,000 golems waiting for a .1% drop item? Not as cool.
Raid 1 instance -- COOL! Raid the same instance that requires concentration, coordination, and planning, night after night after night hoping to get enough fake points to get an item? Not as cool.
So hes playing a game constantly because he hates playing it? I dunno if youve played wow or not but its pretty damn validating and almost always fun. Its easy to find something engaging and rewarding to do and there is always social interaction to be had. Im not saying its the best thing nor do I disagree that it is physically and perhaps socially determental in extremes. But that is anything on extremes. People are not addicted to WOW, COD4, or any other game. They are hooked on the validation and persistant rewards bit that wraps around the entire social communal aspect. Theres a reason people are not addicted to say, RE5 or something. I say let them play.
I'm very much speaking from experience. I had a sort of fun-simulacrum, a thin veneer of fun, but I very nearly always had much more fun going out, but the very next day when I was at home, I'd be too stuck to the game to go out again.
I was engaged in the game, yes. But I was not really happy doing it.
You still play? I mean, I played for quite some time but it was always competitive and extremely engaging. The rough parts were rough, Im not gonna lie. But it was always worth it.
So hes playing a game constantly because he hates playing it? I dunno if youve played wow or not but its pretty damn validating and almost always fun. Its easy to find something engaging and rewarding to do and there is always social interaction to be had. Im not saying its the best thing nor do I disagree that it is physically and perhaps socially determental in extremes. But that is anything on extremes. People are not addicted to WOW, COD4, or any other game. They are hooked on the validation and persistant rewards bit that wraps around the entire social communal aspect. Theres a reason people are not addicted to say, RE5 or something. I say let them play.
I'm very much speaking from experience. I had a sort of fun-simulacrum, a thin veneer of fun, but I very nearly always had much more fun going out, but the very next day when I was at home, I'd be too stuck to the game to go out again.
I was engaged in the game, yes. But I was not really happy doing it.
I want to 2nd the notion that it's very easy to play a game, even a fun game, and not be having fun.
Kill 1 golem -- COOL! Kill 10,000 golems waiting for a .1% drop item? Not as cool.
Raid 1 instance -- COOL! Raid the same instance that requires concentration, coordination, and planning, night after night after night hoping to get enough fake points to get an item? Not as cool.
How long did you play a game you didnt have fun playing?
@ Septus: I think just about every recovered WoW addict is familiar with the "playing to be there not because you want to play." WoW is a very fun game, and unfortunately the game itself and the community built around it have kind of fed off each other in terrible ways to reinforce some very unhealthy behavior. I think my favorite bit of MMO wisdom was "Nothing you do now will matter at all in two months." Top guild? Gladiator PvP'er? World first? Best-on-server-whatever? Doesn't matter in 8 weeks. Good way to keep the game in perspective IMO.
@ Fei: I have always hoped that Blizzard would have to pay out some silly settlement in a civil suit by someone grinding for HWL back in old system. The way they set that thing up was maliciously unethical.
@ Septus: I think just about every recovered WoW addict is familiar with the "playing to be there not because you want to play." WoW is a very fun game, and unfortunately the game itself and the community built around it have kind of fed off each other in terrible ways to reinforce some very unhealthy behavior. I think my favorite bit of MMO wisdom was "Nothing you do now will matter at all in two months." Top guild? Gladiator PvP'er? World first? Best-on-server-whatever? Doesn't matter in 8 weeks. Good way to keep the game in perspective IMO.
@ Fei: I have always hoped that Blizzard would have to pay out some silly settlement in a civil suit by someone grinding for HWL back in old system. The way they set that thing up was maliciously unethical.
Well I quit because of patch 2.0. Several of the bosses became unkillable that month. I actually didnt really play for Dec06, Jan07 that much. I would have quit if it wasnt for my burning desire to show off my rep as a great dueler and respected pvper. Thats why I got triple Gladiator in season 1 and then quit, selling my account for $3500. I used to spend hours at work dueling in front of Org in Durator. I could beat mages and rogues with just lightning shield (World first and server only Wushoolay's Charm of Spirits, baby, when that shit was broken!)
So hes playing a game constantly because he hates playing it? I dunno if youve played wow or not but its pretty damn validating and almost always fun. Its easy to find something engaging and rewarding to do and there is always social interaction to be had. Im not saying its the best thing nor do I disagree that it is physically and perhaps socially determental in extremes. But that is anything on extremes. People are not addicted to WOW, COD4, or any other game. They are hooked on the validation and persistant rewards bit that wraps around the entire social communal aspect. Theres a reason people are not addicted to say, RE5 or something. I say let them play.
I'm very much speaking from experience. I had a sort of fun-simulacrum, a thin veneer of fun, but I very nearly always had much more fun going out, but the very next day when I was at home, I'd be too stuck to the game to go out again.
I was engaged in the game, yes. But I was not really happy doing it.
You still play? I mean, I played for quite some time but it was always competitive and extremely engaging. The rough parts were rough, Im not gonna lie. But it was always worth it.
I played from release, until a couple of months ago. In that time period, I stopped playing once for about 3 months, and again for about 5 months, but for very long periods of time in there that I was playing, I wasn't really having fun. And the times when I was, like the first 6 months, or the first couple of months of TBC and WotLK, I still wasn't enjoying my time as much as I would hanging out with friends.
So hes playing a game constantly because he hates playing it? I dunno if youve played wow or not but its pretty damn validating and almost always fun. Its easy to find something engaging and rewarding to do and there is always social interaction to be had. Im not saying its the best thing nor do I disagree that it is physically and perhaps socially determental in extremes. But that is anything on extremes. People are not addicted to WOW, COD4, or any other game. They are hooked on the validation and persistant rewards bit that wraps around the entire social communal aspect. Theres a reason people are not addicted to say, RE5 or something. I say let them play.
I'm very much speaking from experience. I had a sort of fun-simulacrum, a thin veneer of fun, but I very nearly always had much more fun going out, but the very next day when I was at home, I'd be too stuck to the game to go out again.
I was engaged in the game, yes. But I was not really happy doing it.
I want to 2nd the notion that it's very easy to play a game, even a fun game, and not be having fun.
Kill 1 golem -- COOL! Kill 10,000 golems waiting for a .1% drop item? Not as cool.
Raid 1 instance -- COOL! Raid the same instance that requires concentration, coordination, and planning, night after night after night hoping to get enough fake points to get an item? Not as cool.
Go download the first Everquest.
There's a part of me still killing fireflies in a swamp... and there always will be.
Sentry on
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
wrote:
When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
How long did you play a game you didnt have fun playing?
People will play a game like that for absurdly long amounts of time after the fun has stopped. That's what the other positive feedback methods are for. And that's part of why it can be classified as an addiction...because some people will participate even though they desire not to.
I know I've grinded a bit in other non-MMO online games, as well as a few offline games...playing because it was something to do and something I used to enjoy, but not so much because I was currently having any fun. It's depressing as fuck.
Then it gets to the point where you've neglected your "real" social life for a while, and you're not sure you're still welcome among your previous friends. Whereas the game is always there for you. You can count on it. And besides, you still wanted to get <loot, score, whatever>, didn't you?
Didn't you?
Seriously, that's what makes shit like WoW so evil...it's specifically designed to encourage players to continue playing even when no longer having fun.
When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
So hes playing a game constantly because he hates playing it? I dunno if youve played wow or not but its pretty damn validating and almost always fun. Its easy to find something engaging and rewarding to do and there is always social interaction to be had. Im not saying its the best thing nor do I disagree that it is physically and perhaps socially determental in extremes. But that is anything on extremes. People are not addicted to WOW, COD4, or any other game. They are hooked on the validation and persistant rewards bit that wraps around the entire social communal aspect. Theres a reason people are not addicted to say, RE5 or something. I say let them play.
I'm very much speaking from experience. I had a sort of fun-simulacrum, a thin veneer of fun, but I very nearly always had much more fun going out, but the very next day when I was at home, I'd be too stuck to the game to go out again.
I was engaged in the game, yes. But I was not really happy doing it.
You still play? I mean, I played for quite some time but it was always competitive and extremely engaging. The rough parts were rough, Im not gonna lie. But it was always worth it.
I played from release, until a couple of months ago. In that time period, I stopped playing once for about 3 months, and again for about 5 months, but for very long periods of time in there that I was playing, I wasn't really having fun. And the times when I was, like the first 6 months, or the first couple of months of TBC and WotLK, I still wasn't enjoying my time as much as I would hanging out with friends.
I dunno man. The first time blizzard fucked us over with the 2.0 patch and we couldnt kill Patchwerk anymore, Twin Emps were unkillable, and lots of other nuissances right before BC I quit. I dunno why you would put up with purposely not having fun for such a long time, quit and return, quit and return. Its like one of my good friends with his marriage. Asshole should get divorced, hes miserable, shes miserable, but they stick with it. Dont understand it, not one bit.
So hes playing a game constantly because he hates playing it? I dunno if youve played wow or not but its pretty damn validating and almost always fun. Its easy to find something engaging and rewarding to do and there is always social interaction to be had. Im not saying its the best thing nor do I disagree that it is physically and perhaps socially determental in extremes. But that is anything on extremes. People are not addicted to WOW, COD4, or any other game. They are hooked on the validation and persistant rewards bit that wraps around the entire social communal aspect. Theres a reason people are not addicted to say, RE5 or something. I say let them play.
I'm very much speaking from experience. I had a sort of fun-simulacrum, a thin veneer of fun, but I very nearly always had much more fun going out, but the very next day when I was at home, I'd be too stuck to the game to go out again.
I was engaged in the game, yes. But I was not really happy doing it.
I want to 2nd the notion that it's very easy to play a game, even a fun game, and not be having fun.
Kill 1 golem -- COOL! Kill 10,000 golems waiting for a .1% drop item? Not as cool.
Raid 1 instance -- COOL! Raid the same instance that requires concentration, coordination, and planning, night after night after night hoping to get enough fake points to get an item? Not as cool.
Go download the first Everquest.
There's a part of me still killing fireflies in a swamp... and there always will be.
Oh hell yeah! Old EQ was good times. Xegony server Druid and the Sullon Zek Monk.
Onslaught_Fei on
XBL: Onslaught Fei
0
Options
reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
So hes playing a game constantly because he hates playing it? I dunno if youve played wow or not but its pretty damn validating and almost always fun. Its easy to find something engaging and rewarding to do and there is always social interaction to be had. Im not saying its the best thing nor do I disagree that it is physically and perhaps socially determental in extremes. But that is anything on extremes. People are not addicted to WOW, COD4, or any other game. They are hooked on the validation and persistant rewards bit that wraps around the entire social communal aspect. Theres a reason people are not addicted to say, RE5 or something. I say let them play.
I'm very much speaking from experience. I had a sort of fun-simulacrum, a thin veneer of fun, but I very nearly always had much more fun going out, but the very next day when I was at home, I'd be too stuck to the game to go out again.
I was engaged in the game, yes. But I was not really happy doing it.
I want to 2nd the notion that it's very easy to play a game, even a fun game, and not be having fun.
Kill 1 golem -- COOL! Kill 10,000 golems waiting for a .1% drop item? Not as cool.
Raid 1 instance -- COOL! Raid the same instance that requires concentration, coordination, and planning, night after night after night hoping to get enough fake points to get an item? Not as cool.
Go download the first Everquest.
There's a part of me still killing fireflies in a swamp... and there always will be.
Oh hell yeah! Old EQ was good times. Xegony server Druid and the Sullon Zek Monk.
I dunno man. The first time blizzard fucked us over with the 2.0 patch and we couldnt kill Patchwerk anymore, Twin Emps were unkillable, and lots of other nuissances right before BC I quit. I dunno why you would put up with purposely not having fun for such a long time, quit and return, quit and return. Its like one of my good friends with his marriage. Asshole should get divorced, hes miserable, shes miserable, but they stick with it. Dont understand it, not one bit.
Heh, the reason why, is I was addicted.
Oh, and in the "breaks" I'd play other MMOs like CoV or WAR, but they're all gone from my computer now. Hopefully it'll stick.
How long did you play a game you didnt have fun playing?
People will play a game like that for absurdly long amounts of time after the fun has stopped. That's what the other positive feedback methods are for. And that's part of why it can be classified as an addiction...because some people will participate even though they desire not to.
I know I've grinded a bit in other non-MMO online games, as well as a few offline games...playing because it was something to do and something I used to enjoy, but not so much because I was currently having any fun. It's depressing as fuck.
Then it gets to the point where you've neglected your "real" social life for a while, and you're not sure you're still welcome among your previous friends. Whereas the game is always there for you. You can count on it. And besides, you still wanted to get <loot, score, whatever>, didn't you?
Didn't you?
Seriously, that's what makes shit like WoW so evil...it's specifically designed to encourage players to continue playing even when no longer having fun.
Never experienced it that. I like to think I was there and saw it all and did it all in the old school days. Max exalted with all BGs before they made it easy. Every alchemy recipe in game. Orange tiger mount. Full T1/T2/T2.5 and half of T3. Gladiator x3 in 1 season. Never did HWL grind but raided just as much. I mean it was nothing but good times. IRL guildmeets 3x a year. We still get together and have parties. Lots of old school talk and rock banding it up nowdays though. I like to think I forged some lifelong friendships with that experience.
So hes playing a game constantly because he hates playing it? I dunno if youve played wow or not but its pretty damn validating and almost always fun. Its easy to find something engaging and rewarding to do and there is always social interaction to be had. Im not saying its the best thing nor do I disagree that it is physically and perhaps socially determental in extremes. But that is anything on extremes. People are not addicted to WOW, COD4, or any other game. They are hooked on the validation and persistant rewards bit that wraps around the entire social communal aspect. Theres a reason people are not addicted to say, RE5 or something. I say let them play.
I'm very much speaking from experience. I had a sort of fun-simulacrum, a thin veneer of fun, but I very nearly always had much more fun going out, but the very next day when I was at home, I'd be too stuck to the game to go out again.
I was engaged in the game, yes. But I was not really happy doing it.
I want to 2nd the notion that it's very easy to play a game, even a fun game, and not be having fun.
Kill 1 golem -- COOL! Kill 10,000 golems waiting for a .1% drop item? Not as cool.
Raid 1 instance -- COOL! Raid the same instance that requires concentration, coordination, and planning, night after night after night hoping to get enough fake points to get an item? Not as cool.
Go download the first Everquest.
There's a part of me still killing fireflies in a swamp... and there always will be.
Oh hell yeah! Old EQ was good times. Xegony server Druid and the Sullon Zek Monk.
I think people who are labeled addicted to mmo, I wonder if the MMO was not there to fulfill that craving would it be replaced with something else like drugs etc?
Horus on
“You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes. You can steer yourself any direction you choose. You're on your own. And you know what you know. And YOU are the one who'll decide where to go...”
― Dr. Seuss, Oh, the Places You'll Go!
Well, this should field some interesting responses.
I'm actually unsure if I'm addicted to WoW or not. Or that if it's even a bad thing.
I'm Guildmaster of a casual raiding guild. We raid three nights of week (One of which only lasts maybe an hour and a half). But, on the other four nights, I'm usually doing other shit. I play some tabletop games with a bunch of friends one night, I usually go out and party or go clubbing on the weekends, and then keep a night open to just relax and catch up on TV/Movies/Console games.
I play with a group of RL friends. We think we're fairly casual. But, I've had it brought up before by other friends and even my dad that I play WoW too much. But, I don't see it. I'm doing plenty of other social activities. Hell, I have no problems missing raids if some sort of social event pops up (For example, I'm going to a party tonight instead of going to my raid. Since parties are infinitely superior to Naxx). Right now, I'm unemployed, but WoW doesn't even impede my job search. First thing I do when I wake up is go job hunting, both online and by driving around.
Am I addicted? And, if I am, is it a bad thing? Or are those other people just overreacting?
You have an active social life, are actively seeking employment and so forth. I'm surprised you even consider yourself addicted.
Posts
That's not really the same kind of scheduling though is it. If I had my week set out as Go Out For Drinks 7PM Monday Cinema 8pm Tuesday Sports Game Wednesday etc it'd be pretty weird. Actual social engagements are a lot looser, that raid schedule is laid out like a work timetable.
To each their own, but I usually have to plan things out more than a couple of hours in advance.
It was. We did have a good portion of people who could Iron Man it. Remember out of over 100 level 60s I think most maintained about 2/3 raid attendence. Some would be around half. Some were just mostly pvpers who would join the raid if needed or if it was going to be a dungeon we had on farm (BWL, AQ40 eventually). They all made the choice. No one forced anyone to go, I would do about 4 out of 6 raids a week (Id skip the farm dungeons) and just goto progression raids.
Monday nights, friends come over to watch House. Wednesdays, they come over for Lost. Same time, each week. Flag football league? That's dates and times. Date with girlfriend? Date and time.
Perhaps playing WoW 7 days a week is more schedule than you stick to, but that's just a matter of degree, not a different entity altogether. That doesn't even sound that weird then.
So hes playing a game constantly because he hates playing it? I dunno if youve played wow or not but its pretty damn validating and almost always fun. Its easy to find something engaging and rewarding to do and there is always social interaction to be had. Im not saying its the best thing nor do I disagree that it is physically and perhaps socially determental in extremes. But that is anything on extremes. People are not addicted to WOW, COD4, or any other game. They are hooked on the validation and persistant rewards bit that wraps around the entire social communal aspect. Theres a reason people are not addicted to say, RE5 or something. I say let them play.
Dunno, you have to schedule amateur sports games, D&D sessions, card games, poker night, etc.
Don't read this as a defense of "I WILL NOT GO OUTSIDE MUST RAID MUST RAID!" but I don't think there's some sacred rule that "scheduling" and "videogames" must be kept separate. If you're going to play any group-oriented game on a somewhat competitive level you'll probably need to do some scheduling. Note "some scheduling," doing one night a week of hard raiding or skirmishing in Counterstrike or whatever is not the same as giving up sunshine so you can have more purples.
On-topic for the OP, I'd recommend trying to talk your friend into being more social, not trying to get him to quit the game cold turkey. Ideally you want to reinforce "RL > WoW" and let him make his own conclusions.
It sounds like your friend's WoW condition is pretty bad (interrupting real-life social get togethers to raid). You might want to apply some very careful pressure on your friend to illustrate the destructive effect this is having on his social life. Be very cautious if you make this approach, but you could try to communicate what he's giving up (particularly from your perspective) for his addiction. "We used to play D&D / go drinking / watch shitty movies / etc. etc." The careful part has to be that you don't come off as heavy-handed or moralizing. Make it about "we used to do fun stuff" and not "I'm your parent you play too much WoW!"
Ultimately, and unfortunately, it is his choice to make. Offer him a way out, and perhaps remind him that he still has a way to "escape" WoW, but don't feel that it is your obligation to save him. WoW can be dangerous in that it combines many potentially addictive activities (online networking, group obligations, constant rewards for participation, etc.) Hopefully your friend brings his playtime under control, its always a shame to see a gamer go bad.
I'm usually on WoW's side in these arguments, but there are some freaks out there.
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=154715&site=pcg
Although, in fairness, Blizz realized that depreciating honor and rank based PVP was bullshit because it lead to things like that, and got rid of it with TBC.
I'm very much speaking from experience. I had a sort of fun-simulacrum, a thin veneer of fun, but I very nearly always had much more fun going out, but the very next day when I was at home, I'd be too stuck to the game to go out again.
I was engaged in the game, yes. But I was not really happy doing it.
Well sure, you can pick and choose some events as having no penalty associated, but that's true in MMORPGs too. Horde were raiding Alliance cities at midnight, you could come if you want, but you wouldn't be punished if you didn't.
Inversely, there are definitely real-life engagements with penalties for absence. Dates, football games, birthday parties, etc.
I'd say board games, role-playing, and group sports are a more apt comparison, as all require a minimum level of attendance for the activity to commence.
That said, I did play WoW and refused on principle to be party of any guild that had "mandatory" attendance. Some people are fine with that, if you want to commit X nights to raiding that isn't necessarily a bad thing, but if "X" is "7" then you've probably sacrificed your health, social life, and outside hobbies for fancy purples that will be completely worthless when the next expansion hits in 12-16 months.
I guess what I'm getting at is its all a matter of perspective and moderation.
I want to 2nd the notion that it's very easy to play a game, even a fun game, and not be having fun.
Kill 1 golem -- COOL! Kill 10,000 golems waiting for a .1% drop item? Not as cool.
Raid 1 instance -- COOL! Raid the same instance that requires concentration, coordination, and planning, night after night after night hoping to get enough fake points to get an item? Not as cool.
You still play? I mean, I played for quite some time but it was always competitive and extremely engaging. The rough parts were rough, Im not gonna lie. But it was always worth it.
How long did you play a game you didnt have fun playing?
@ Fei: I have always hoped that Blizzard would have to pay out some silly settlement in a civil suit by someone grinding for HWL back in old system. The way they set that thing up was maliciously unethical.
Well I quit because of patch 2.0. Several of the bosses became unkillable that month. I actually didnt really play for Dec06, Jan07 that much. I would have quit if it wasnt for my burning desire to show off my rep as a great dueler and respected pvper. Thats why I got triple Gladiator in season 1 and then quit, selling my account for $3500. I used to spend hours at work dueling in front of Org in Durator. I could beat mages and rogues with just lightning shield (World first and server only Wushoolay's Charm of Spirits, baby, when that shit was broken!)
I played from release, until a couple of months ago. In that time period, I stopped playing once for about 3 months, and again for about 5 months, but for very long periods of time in there that I was playing, I wasn't really having fun. And the times when I was, like the first 6 months, or the first couple of months of TBC and WotLK, I still wasn't enjoying my time as much as I would hanging out with friends.
Go download the first Everquest.
There's a part of me still killing fireflies in a swamp... and there always will be.
People will play a game like that for absurdly long amounts of time after the fun has stopped. That's what the other positive feedback methods are for. And that's part of why it can be classified as an addiction...because some people will participate even though they desire not to.
I know I've grinded a bit in other non-MMO online games, as well as a few offline games...playing because it was something to do and something I used to enjoy, but not so much because I was currently having any fun. It's depressing as fuck.
Then it gets to the point where you've neglected your "real" social life for a while, and you're not sure you're still welcome among your previous friends. Whereas the game is always there for you. You can count on it. And besides, you still wanted to get <loot, score, whatever>, didn't you?
Didn't you?
Seriously, that's what makes shit like WoW so evil...it's specifically designed to encourage players to continue playing even when no longer having fun.
I dunno man. The first time blizzard fucked us over with the 2.0 patch and we couldnt kill Patchwerk anymore, Twin Emps were unkillable, and lots of other nuissances right before BC I quit. I dunno why you would put up with purposely not having fun for such a long time, quit and return, quit and return. Its like one of my good friends with his marriage. Asshole should get divorced, hes miserable, shes miserable, but they stick with it. Dont understand it, not one bit.
Oh hell yeah! Old EQ was good times. Xegony server Druid and the Sullon Zek Monk.
The Nazis.
Stalin.
The KKK.
Saddam Hussein.
WoW.
Yeah, I can see how it fits right in there.
What was your name on Xegony?
Heh, the reason why, is I was addicted.
Oh, and in the "breaks" I'd play other MMOs like CoV or WAR, but they're all gone from my computer now. Hopefully it'll stick.
Never experienced it that. I like to think I was there and saw it all and did it all in the old school days. Max exalted with all BGs before they made it easy. Every alchemy recipe in game. Orange tiger mount. Full T1/T2/T2.5 and half of T3. Gladiator x3 in 1 season. Never did HWL grind but raided just as much. I mean it was nothing but good times. IRL guildmeets 3x a year. We still get together and have parties. Lots of old school talk and rock banding it up nowdays though. I like to think I forged some lifelong friendships with that experience.
Debonare
Well, was bard with that char. He was later but actually raided. Druid was prekunark ;[
Dark Templars
Anyway, sorry for derailing the topic. I just rarely see people who say they played on Xegony.
― Dr. Seuss, Oh, the Places You'll Go!
Only if your guild is a bunch of jackasses not worth spending time with in the first place.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOkF0McZKIw&feature=channel_page