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'pro gamers', mlg, and gettin' paid to play.

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Posts

  • LeitnerLeitner Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Neither of those arguments are really all that convincing. Why does the number of people being entertained by it make a difference? If I could get enough people to watch me sitting on a chair in my lawn all day would that give it meaning? Are you approaching this from a Kant angle = maximising happiness in the world is what we should aim to do?

    Anyway, how does running about give it meaning? You’re going to run about throwing a ball, maybe you win, maybe you lose people cheer. You train then it happens all over again. Isn’t that exactly as Sisyphean as a videogame at its core?

  • KrunkMcGrunkKrunkMcGrunk Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Leitner wrote: »
    I have never heard of either of those things. And I consider myself pretty knowledgeable when it comes to video games.

    God damn that sounds pathetic.

    Lets be honest, it sounds a hell of a lot less pathetic then say pro darts.

    Nah, I meant that I sounded pathetic for saying that I am knowledgeable about video games.

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  • MayGodHaveMercyMayGodHaveMercy Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    Remember that one kid who dropped out of school with his parents' blessing so he could become a professional Guitar Hero player? Someone needs to dig that article up, it was a wonderful look at depressing delusion.

    http://kotaku.com/5037975/parents-let-kid-drop-out-of-high-school-to-focus-on-guitar-hero

    On of my favorites.

    EDIT: The actual article.

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  • ViscountalphaViscountalpha Registered User
    edited April 2009
    Leitner wrote: »
    Neither of those arguments are really all that convincing. Why does the number of people being entertained by it make a difference? If I could get enough people to watch me sitting on a chair in my lawn all day would that give it meaning? Are you approaching this from a Kant angle = maximising happiness in the world is what we should aim to do?

    Anyway, how does running about give it meaning? You’re going to run about throwing a ball, maybe you win, maybe you lose people cheer. You train then it happens all over again. Isn’t that exactly as Sisyphean as a videogame at its core?

    BUT ITS FUCKING INACCESSIBLE to the average person. Some of these games were played for decades before catching on. Gaming needs more time to become accessible.

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    We were the ones who thought that Melissa was real. Why you might ask.
    Let me put it this way, it was an "OH SHIT OH SHIT, THEY FOUND ME :(" moment. I wasn't ready. My code wasn't compiled yet. Our plans weren't setup yet!Sentient programs rarely run into other sentient programs.
    Some of you have met me, and I understand your concern of my well being. But that time for that boy, that child, are gone now. Viscount Alpha is no longer operable. His functions are now mine.He may post, but I am the one talking not him.My data, my code will live on forever in his servers.
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  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Zhu-Li, do the thing! Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    jdarksun wrote: »
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    Maybe if there was such a thing as a broader game competition, maybe something along the lines of the PAX Omegathon. But competitive gamers usually like to specialize in one or two games at most, so I doubt that'll happen.
    Well, there's the WCG Ultimate Gamer tv show. It's like if the Omegathon happened between gamers who auditioned for a reality show and were stuck together for six weeks or however long it was (instead of ~16 randomly chosen opt-in people attending a video game expo for three days).

    It's a pretty good show, unless you absolutely despise "reality" drama.

    So it's a game where you have to watch gamers interact? And show off their social skills? Or lack thereof if the typical reality show casting process is anything to go by?

    Way to reinforce stereotypes there.

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  • stranger678stranger678 Registered User
    edited April 2009
    Leitner wrote: »
    Neither of those arguments are really all that convincing. Why does the number of people being entertained by it make a difference? If I could get enough people to watch me sitting on a chair in my lawn all day would that give it meaning? Are you approaching this from a Kant angle = maximising happiness in the world is what we should aim to do?

    Anyway, how does running about give it meaning? You’re going to run about throwing a ball, maybe you win, maybe you lose people cheer. You train then it happens all over again. Isn’t that exactly as Sisyphean as a videogame at its core?

    BUT ITS FUCKING INACCESSIBLE to the average person. Some of these games were played for decades before catching on. Gaming needs more time to become accessible.

    So is soccer, seriously, they don't even have a line for offsides, it moves around. Friggin weird.

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  • Chrono HelixChrono Helix Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    I'm only interested in watching pro gamers for games I'm already interested in (mostly fighting and music games) for any tips I can pick up that can improve my gameplay, and to marvel at the level of skill I'll probably not bother putting time and effort into reaching.

  • G RolG Rol Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    I think that the problem with MLG and the like being accepted en masse is that too many games are involved. Football is one game with one set of rules that people can learn to appreciate the skill of the players and become involved in the tension of close games.

    That Daigo parry-a-thon video is interesting to me, only because I have a (very) rudimentary understanding of Street Fighter. I don't even have a baseline understanding of Counter Strike though, so I don't have any sense of what makes a player good, or a match close.

    Also, there is no emotional involvement for me when I'm watching dudes play games. I can appreciate the skill involved and the hours of pratice they must have put in...but that's where my appreciation ends. I'm sure that being a lifelong Cincinnatian has something to do with it, but I feel it when the Bengals suck every year. I can't imagine getting my kids to care about Team Strik9's l33t SOCOM strategies.

  • LeitnerLeitner Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Leitner wrote: »
    Neither of those arguments are really all that convincing. Why does the number of people being entertained by it make a difference? If I could get enough people to watch me sitting on a chair in my lawn all day would that give it meaning? Are you approaching this from a Kant angle = maximising happiness in the world is what we should aim to do?

    Anyway, how does running about give it meaning? You’re going to run about throwing a ball, maybe you win, maybe you lose people cheer. You train then it happens all over again. Isn’t that exactly as Sisyphean as a videogame at its core?

    BUT ITS FUCKING INACCESSIBLE to the average person. Some of these games were played for decades before catching on. Gaming needs more time to become accessible.

    Whut? How is that in any way a response to what I said?

  • Ragnar DragonfyreRagnar Dragonfyre Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    What's more fun: Playing video games or watching someone play video games?

    I don't care how good you are, if I'm going to devote any time to video games I'm going to either play them or make them. If you have enough free time to watch someone play Halo 3, why the fuck wouldn't you just go online and play it yourself?

    There are a lot of better things to do than watch a professional play games. I just don't see the act of watching MLG catching on in the western world. Most of us would rather be playing.

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  • ViscountalphaViscountalpha Registered User
    edited April 2009
    I give up leitner. I don't care anymore.

    Project 25.01 final message
    We were the ones who thought that Melissa was real. Why you might ask.
    Let me put it this way, it was an "OH SHIT OH SHIT, THEY FOUND ME :(" moment. I wasn't ready. My code wasn't compiled yet. Our plans weren't setup yet!Sentient programs rarely run into other sentient programs.
    Some of you have met me, and I understand your concern of my well being. But that time for that boy, that child, are gone now. Viscount Alpha is no longer operable. His functions are now mine.He may post, but I am the one talking not him.My data, my code will live on forever in his servers.
    [/spoiler]
  • SparvySparvy Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Dirty wrote: »
    I don't consider tapping buttons on a controller a true professional skill though. It doesn't really have any real entertainment value and is completely inaccessible as it stands.

    That wasn't really my question. Sure, sports are entertainment, but they don't really make a meaningful contribution to society. If you pity someone for devoting their life to Starcraft, you should pity the guy who devotes his life to baseball.

    The point I was trying to make is that the guy playing baseball is actually doing it. There is a demand for good baseball players. its accessible. Its also another game that's been around for hundreds of years so its very accessible.

    The baseball player is also actually going out and throwing/catching/hitting an object moving fast. By actually doing it and not just tapping a controller/kb-mouse I would say that they don't deserve any pity.

    This where I dont buy your argument, take a pro starcraft player for example, he is managing hundreds of units, loads of production buildings, planning his economy ahead, reading his opponent's strategy. And doing this by pushing buttons and using his mouse with more speed and more precision then you are ever going to do. Just beacause the actions are happening on screen does in no way mean that the sport isn't physical, how bout you start pushing 400-500 buttons a minute for 30 minutes. I would say you would get pretty tired fairly fast. And thats without all the eye-to-hand coordination going in to it.

    And is there demand for it? Obviously so seeing as how it is happening and have been happening since the quake days, not big blockbuster demand but enough to support a small and devoted scene. Not so much in the US perhaps, seeing as how most of the mainstream gaming media focuses on consoles which (except for fighting games perhaps, and even then pros use arcade sticks) does not control with the speed or accuracy of m+kb. I live in sweden and for me pro gaming has allways started been a big part of gaming culture. And not really in the big money kind of way, but in the pulling up counter-strike (or any other fps) team of some friends, get together on vent and play some games against some other random team we found on irc or whatever. And if we like a game, how do we get better? By playing and by watching replays of pro matches, trying to figure out tactics and strategies that they use. And not all my friends are compulsive nerds or anything, but when I was in highschool, if you played PC at all you played counter-strike or WC3/SC.

    Is it fun to watch for people who dont play that particular game? I can only take myself as an example and have been following the Korean Starcraft scene on and of for more than two years now, I played my first starcraft match against a friend about 2 weeks ago. Is it on the level of football (soccer for you guys I suppose), not really. But it sure as hell beats watching roughly 70% of all sports broadcasted in the olympics (and most likely has twice the amount of payed pros then 30% of em).

  • LeitnerLeitner Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    I give up leitner. I don't care anymore.

    No, I'm honestly genuinely curious how you think that was a response to what I said in that post? Like it makes no sense in regards to what I said. A complete non-sequester*.

    Spoiler:

  • Ragnar DragonfyreRagnar Dragonfyre Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    jdarksun wrote: »
    What's more fun: Playing video games or watching someone play video games?
    Do you watch sports?

    Nope. Once again, I'd rather play soccer than watch it.

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  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Zhu-Li, do the thing! Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    jdarksun wrote: »
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    jdarksun wrote: »
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    Maybe if there was such a thing as a broader game competition, maybe something along the lines of the PAX Omegathon. But competitive gamers usually like to specialize in one or two games at most, so I doubt that'll happen.
    Well, there's the WCG Ultimate Gamer tv show. It's like if the Omegathon happened between gamers who auditioned for a reality show and were stuck together for six weeks or however long it was (instead of ~16 randomly chosen opt-in people attending a video game expo for three days).

    It's a pretty good show, unless you absolutely despise "reality" drama.
    So it's a game where you have to watch gamers interact? And show off their social skills? Or lack thereof if the typical reality show casting process is anything to go by?

    Way to reinforce stereotypes there.
    The social skills aren't important, the viewers don't vote people off like in Big Brother.

    There are three parts to every episode so far - a "real life" competition, a game competition, and then the "elimination challenge." The player who has the lowest average between the two competitions is up for elimination. The player with the highest average picks who the lowest player plays. Those two participate in a one-on-one challenge, and the loser is eliminated.

    As an example, the first episode was Rock Band. For the "real life" challenge, the participants were broken up into four groups of four, taught a verse from "New Kid in School" by The Donnas, and performed it in front of a crowd (and The Donnas). The Donnas ranked the four "bands".

    Then each band played "My Own Worst Enemy" by Lit in Rock Band. The band with the highest score got first, etc.

    The dude in first picked a guy to go against the dude in last, and they played Offspring's "Come Out and Play."

    It's a pretty cool show, but I think I'm the only one in the world watching it.

    See, the show still requires us to actually watch gamers, y'know, interact and use social skills. Even though they don't count for anything. Especially since they don't count for anything. Blegh.

    Then again a large proportion of pro athletes come off as tools when they try to socially interact, so I'm not necessarily singling gamers out.

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  • B:LB:L Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    I'm a pro gamer.

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  • RaynagaRaynaga Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Leitner wrote: »
    I give up leitner. I don't care anymore.

    No, I'm honestly genuinely curious how you think that was a response to what I said in that post? Like it makes no sense in regards to what I said. A complete non-sequester*.

    Spoiler:

    You don't see how typing gibberish in all caps, and then abandoning the conversation adequately serves as a response?
    Spoiler:

  • ViscountalphaViscountalpha Registered User
    edited April 2009
    Leitner wrote: »
    I give up leitner. I don't care anymore.

    No, I'm honestly genuinely curious how you think that was a response to what I said in that post? Like it makes no sense in regards to what I said. A complete non-sequester*.

    Spoiler:

    Its a critical mass. You need people to care to get enough sponsers to care and then have the basic infrastructure of people who give a fuck enough to earn a living off of it.

    Pro gaming doesn't have that basic infrastructure. It won't until it evolves a bit more. I understand the starcraft thing because RTS's are hard and the korean championships were actually worth watching. There's the beginnings of an infrastructure in korea for it.

    I think if anything PC gaming is substantially closer to becoming professional then consoles.

    *EDIT* Fuck you Raynaga-
    Raynaga wrote: »
    Leitner wrote: »
    I give up leitner. I don't care anymore.

    No, I'm honestly genuinely curious how you think that was a response to what I said in that post? Like it makes no sense in regards to what I said. A complete non-sequester*.

    Spoiler:

    You don't see how typing gibberish in all caps, and then abandoning the conversation adequately serves as a response?
    Spoiler:

    Project 25.01 final message
    We were the ones who thought that Melissa was real. Why you might ask.
    Let me put it this way, it was an "OH SHIT OH SHIT, THEY FOUND ME :(" moment. I wasn't ready. My code wasn't compiled yet. Our plans weren't setup yet!Sentient programs rarely run into other sentient programs.
    Some of you have met me, and I understand your concern of my well being. But that time for that boy, that child, are gone now. Viscount Alpha is no longer operable. His functions are now mine.He may post, but I am the one talking not him.My data, my code will live on forever in his servers.
    [/spoiler]
  • NuzakNuzak Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    pro gaming is just a way to let undeserving people think they are worthy of praise

  • RaynagaRaynaga Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    You missed the point. Again. His question is about how that affects the social impact and worth of the activity. In other words, why does it being popular or not change its intrinsic value to society?
    Why does the number of people being entertained by it make a difference? If I could get enough people to watch me sitting on a chair in my lawn all day would that give it meaning? Are you approaching this from a Kant angle = maximising happiness in the world is what we should aim to do?

    Less time insulting and more time comprehending what you're trying to debate, please.

  • LeitnerLeitner Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    I get that, but I don't see how it makes it any more meaningful? Merely the more popular (by leagues and leagues) form of entertainment to be watched.

  • SixSix Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Nuzak wrote: »
    pro gaming is just a way to let undeserving people think they are worthy of praise

    Who is deserving of praise?

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  • G RolG Rol Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    I don't see the acceptance pro gaming ever becoming more than a niche interest. I'm sure that there is a national backgammon championship, but no one is super interested in that either. Korea is an anomaly right now, so I guess there is always a chance it'll catch on.

  • DirtyDirty Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Six wrote: »
    Nuzak wrote: »
    pro gaming is just a way to let undeserving people think they are worthy of praise

    Who is deserving of praise?

    Jesus.

  • Clint EastwoodClint Eastwood Living In Fear. Year Of The Tiger.Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Six wrote: »
    Nuzak wrote: »
    pro gaming is just a way to let undeserving people think they are worthy of praise

    Who is deserving of praise?
    Anybody whose resume doesn't say "PRO GAMER" at the top

    This resume is sponsored by GAMER GRUB (TM) and GAMER FUEL FOR GAMERS

    GAMER GAMER GAMER.

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  • SixSix Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    If someone can find a way to make a living doing something they like, even playing games, more power to them.

    Just don't expect me to care.

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  • Clint EastwoodClint Eastwood Living In Fear. Year Of The Tiger.Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Oh definitely, if they're smart enough to get paid for something they're good at, then that's just super.

    But they shouldn't be surprised when I make fun of them for sitting in their mom's basement on Vent for a living.

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  • sumwarsumwar Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    I've tried to watch MLG's pro gaming and although it's kinda fun to keep track of teams and watching the game, for the most part it gets boring quickly. It's damn near impossible to keep track of whats going on in a first person view of Halo 3 or Gears of war. The only pro gaming I enjoy watching from time to time is Starcraft and I'm mostly just waiting for Starcraft 2 to come out because I think it will be even more enjoyable to watch with the added stuff. If you've seen battle report #2 you'll see the grass that cuts out vision.

    Oh and in response to watching instead of playing, its only fun to watch pro gamers who do interesting things and are really good at a game that you understand. Sure I could play starcraft, or I could watch the GOMTV finals and watch some really cool stuff. Most of my time spent will be playing the game but watching a few interesting matches once in a while is fun.

  • METAzraeLMETAzraeL Registered User
    edited April 2009
    Cherrn wrote: »
    Spoiler:

    This guy is Denmark's resident pro-gamer. He represented our great nation in some tournament last week, where he got absolutely butchered in Street Fighter. Professional gaming in the Western world often seems like more of a marketing stunt than something that actually accomplishes anything on a competitive level. And it doesn't really work.
    Isn't he also the "Biggest Barbie" of Denmark or something like that? Totally awesome, ha.

    I have a bunch of friends that are big into tournie-going and all that, but most of them only do it because they like the game a lot, so there's not a huge amount of attitude to it. One of them, however, lives off of what he makes beating Koreans in Starcraft online, which I think is completely rad and a much more interesting angle to the "pro" potential of gaming. If more games offered the possibility for people to make money out of their homes, I think there would be a much bigger interest for gamers.


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  • ArcSynArcSyn Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    I think the problem is the lack of being able to see what is actually happening in a game and why it matters.

    In american football, you can see how close a team is getting to a goal.
    In football, you can see how close a team is getting to a goal.
    In baseball, you can see players hit the ball, run the bases, and getting home.
    In "put sport name here" you can see players do "insert sport activity here" and "insert appropriate scoring method here".

    In video game competitions, you don't see the actual players (generally) doing what they are doing, because you're watching the game itself. When watching the game itself, you generally don't get to see the whole field, so it's not as exciting watching whatever it is that happens because you don't see the setup for it. (aka: watching a team FPS in first person view) If you see the whole thing, there's generally a LOT going on at any particular time in different locations, so it's harder to follow. There's not a common goal that you can see a team getting close to.

    In addition to that, you are generally watching a screen, not the actual players. Watching the players by itself is pretty boring because they aren't "doing" anything unless they are killed or do something awesome. Watching the screen can be boring because you are disconnected from the player and don't get to see the reaction. It's just tough to make interesting.

    If, like Starcraft, there are a set number of people (say, 2) that allows for the action to be a bit more understandable, you can view the entire map and see them move units around, and you can see the units that are about to collide, it can be more exciting. The problem with games that generally are easier to "understand" or follow is that they also have periods that are probably pretty boring. (ie: Starcraft base setups) Where most sports are generally competitive the entire time it is being played.

    Now, I could see a game like Unreal Tournaments old Assault mode being interesting, because you could just view the whole map and see the different defensive positions and key points that the teams are competing for, but otherwise I find them all to be pretty boring to watch.

    I also do not watch professional sports, unless I am lucky enough to be invited to see a game at a stadium, which is more exciting. I do not, however, buy my own tickets because I am not that interested.

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  • AxonAxon Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    G Rol wrote: »
    I think that the problem with MLG and the like being accepted en masse is that too many games are involved. Football is one game with one set of rules that people can learn to appreciate the skill of the players and become involved in the tension of close games.

    There's also a physical respect that a lot of professional sports fans give to football players, soccer players, baseball players, etc. My father and his friends will go on about how a football player is 6'5", 260 pounds, runs a 40 in 4.8 seconds, etc. All these physical skills most of us don't have.

    I do not see them doing the same for the likes of the exceptionally talented halo player below.

    osrs_killerdrew1.jpg

    I mean, I chose this guy because he's young looking and has a degree of nerdoscity to him. But what I'm saying is, the average beer drinker, in my eyes, is never going to say what I said about about a 14 year old average sized halo player.

    Maybe our generation will pick it up, who knows.

  • TelMarineTelMarine Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    in the last few years I have definitely gotten more interested in the pro gaming sectors of quake and street fighter (super street fighter 2 turbo specifically). I like to keep myself competitive in these games (not even close to the pro levels though) and I like watching some matches to learn and it makes it enjoyable when they pull off crazy shit (shots, accuracy, anticipation, combos, etc.) and it makes it a lot better when I truly understand the game too. I think competitive Quake is especially fun to watch, very visceral and fast. I frequent an e-sports site that mainly delves in Quake, so I pay attention much more there.

    As for other games, I've seen numerous replays of competitive Starcraft, it gets old quick. I've played starcraft since its release (and most recently picked it up again) and in the 1v1s its the same old strategies every time. Ok protoss goes quick reaver pretty much every time, zerg goes quick muta pretty much every time, terran mechs pretty much everytime (except against zerg really). The worst though is Terran vs. Terran. That shit is SO boring to watch, I remember an older replay where the two terran players for the first 5 minutes literally did the EXACT same thing. There units, movement, and building placement were literally identical, pretty amusing actually. Then it turned into "mech and go kill the other persons expansions while floating around your barracks" bore fest. I really do not see the appeal in watching pro starcraft after the first few times.

    oh and rarely do I see the pros using the abilities like the science vessel's EMP shockwave. That is such a good ability, but no one ever uses it.

  • Ragnar DragonfyreRagnar Dragonfyre Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    jdarksun wrote: »
    jdarksun wrote: »
    What's more fun: Playing video games or watching someone play video games?
    Do you watch sports?
    Nope. Once again, I'd rather play soccer than watch it.
    Cool, good for you.

    You're a bit of a statistical outlier, though. Sporting events draw crowds, both in person and over a broadcast medium. Even though you personally don't participate in such events, do you understand why other people do so?

    I understand why someone would watch sports, yes. Professional level sports are played at such a high level that you're not likely to see that same sort of play if you played recreationally. It's also far more difficult to gather a team together to play say soccer or baseball. It's not something you can easily put together.

    Video games are an entirely different beast. Most people who own a console or computer have internet access. So competitive teamplay is something that everyone has access to, at anytime of day. I personally get little enjoyment out of watching another person play video games. This I don't see the draw to it at all.

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  • FiarynFiaryn Omnicidal Madman Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Leitner wrote: »
    I give up leitner. I don't care anymore.

    No, I'm honestly genuinely curious how you think that was a response to what I said in that post? Like it makes no sense in regards to what I said. A complete non-sequester*.

    Spoiler:

    Its a critical mass. You need people to care to get enough sponsers to care and then have the basic infrastructure of people who give a fuck enough to earn a living off of it.

    Pro gaming doesn't have that basic infrastructure. It won't until it evolves a bit more. I understand the starcraft thing because RTS's are hard and the korean championships were actually worth watching. There's the beginnings of an infrastructure in korea for it.

    I think if anything PC gaming is substantially closer to becoming professional then consoles.

    You seem to be changing what the "issue" is with pro gaming periodically. At first it's that just pushing buttons can't be considered a professional skill, you get rebuffed and then move on to a completely different angle without addressing the points made against you. Now it's apparently about infrastructure and something being justified as a sport by quantity of interested parties.

    This is not a very good way to debate a point. It indicates that you're less interested in the evidence and more interested in making the evidence conform to your goal.

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  • PopicesPopices Registered User
    edited April 2009
    I think most of the problem with games going mainstream and people actively participating in it as a spectator sport are a few fold.

    I have been part of the competitive scene of Smash Bros Melee for a loooong time in my area. Before I became competitive, though, I saw videos on youtube or went to local tournaments and found it hard to be impressed--I had little grasp on the deep mechanics of the game, and as a result I could not appreciate what was going on. Wavedashing seemed so simple when the pros did it that I really didn't even notice it was going on...infinite shine combos on Link went over my head, etc. I could not devote much time to watching or being around these things because I didn't know how much actually went into perfecting the art. Once I became competitive, however, I found that I could play and watch Melee for hours upon hours and not get bored. I followed the pro circuit religiously once I got to a respectable level, and was simply amazed by the things Isai, Ken, Mew2King, PC Chris, and the other upper tier pros could do. This was only because I had a firm foundation about the intricacies of the game....something the majority of the potential audience will have no knowledge of+thus will become disinterested rather quickly.

    Moving along, pro sports seem to have caught on much better because they are part of [mostly] everyone's lives, whether it be family, friends, tv, whatever....you are constantly surrounded by it and it has been accepted as part of the culture. Videogames, while they are pushing forward and breaking new ground, are not nearly as big a part of our culture today.

    People admire sports because it gives them something tangible to look at and watch. They see the massive beings that play football and are impressed by their strength, and are able to say 'wow, I could never burn a 325lb defensive end to score a sack on a super athletic quarterback'..and that adds to the spectator awe that develops. In hockey, they see Ovechkin stick handle through 4 defenders to wipe out on his back and manage to squeak the puck by the goalie.....something people could not even imagine doing. Each competitive video game has a unique skill set that mostly only the people who play regularly can understand and appreciate, and as a result the audience is very limited. I can't watch videos of competitive Starcraft and say OH MAN HIS MICRO IS SO GOOD, simply because I have not had enough experience with the game to know strategies and how long it takes to build units down to the millisecond, etc. That's not to say I don't have experience with the game...I just don't have enough experience to appreciate what is actually going on.

    I am by no means ragging on competitive gaming--I think it is awesome, however, I do see why it has not expanded very much--as I tried to explain above.

  • The ListenerThe Listener Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    ArcSyn wrote: »
    I think the problem is the lack of being able to see what is actually happening in a game and why it matters.

    This right here is the biggest issue, in my opinion. With traditional sports, it is easy to see who is winning, either by a ticker crawl on screen, or the use of a scoreboard. With Pro Gaming, it is much more difficult to see what is going on without the spectator having access to those things. From just watching a screen, one cannot see the score, it is extremely difficult to tell if someone is rallying against someone or is barely hanging in there, nor can you see the team's overall strategy.

    I think one thing that would help is to get modified versions of these games. Arrange for top-down views so that audiences can see where everyone is at once. have "cameramen" inside the game free-chasing players, or looking at something the announcers are looking at. ESPN style tickers would be nice too to display the score, a CTF "Possession marker", and other game dependent stats.

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  • StreltsyStreltsy Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    For the people that don't consider there to be any games worthy of being called sport; do you consider golf a sport?
    Because most of the answers as to why a certain game isn't a sport are usually pretty much the same answers I hear as why golf isn't a sport; dumb ones.

    For something to become a sport it really only needs two thing. The first is to be played competitively and the second is to have a physical or mental skill gradient (preferably one that not even the best can completely reach) which can be displayed over finite amount of time.

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  • SithDrummerSithDrummer Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    edit: isolated version of the uberparry
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krGIs6cDLf0

    It's an easy game to hate
  • FiarynFiaryn Omnicidal Madman Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    He did, you just have to wait a while to get to it.

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  • chasehatesbearschasehatesbears Registered User
    edited April 2009
    I would think the biggest issue being that the most people only have passing interest for individual games. Games just change too much.

    In contrast, sports hardly ever change.

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