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'pro gamers', mlg, and gettin' paid to play.

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Posts

  • GogoKodoGogoKodo Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    If an SC player, Jaedong, is being used to promote a companies shoes then it's decently big. Now that I think about it, if there's several large companies (including beer, Hite) sponsoring teams then it's decently big.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIC3bYMGEdI
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFw5GeKMM-k

  • pinenut_canarypinenut_canary Registered User
    edited April 2009
    -SPI- wrote: »
    I wouldn't mind seeing the top players of games playing different games than just the ones they play competitively. Get the Starcraft guy playing Civ4 and the Streetfighter guy in Supreme Commander and the CoD4 guy playing DDR.

    That would be a show that would almost be interesting enough to watch.

    Fatality (I'm not putting the numbers in his name because fuck that) saw how popular Counter-Strike 1.6 was getting, and so he started his own team (iFate, I believe). His team managed to do all right, but towards the end his team started getting stomped by the upper teams, and iFate eventually disbanded.

    (This was a long time ago, so if I'm wrong, please correct me)

  • TelMarineTelMarine Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Jubeh wrote: »
    And they also wonder who the fuck is Alex Valle?

    I'm actually curious to see how many people here know who Dennis Fong is without looking it up first.

  • krapst78krapst78 Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Wasn't he the guy that won John Carmack's Ferrari and then went on to start gamers.com and contributed to Firingsquad. I only remember that because I was a fan of d22-soso who was also a contributor to gamers.com. I think he also made some website where you could wager on online games.

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  • CygnusZCygnusZ Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Isn't he Thresh?

    Watching games played by a pro is boring. It's much more amusing to watch somebody who doesn't know what they're doing.

  • krapst78krapst78 Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Dangerisk wrote: »
    You're actually probably understating the popularity of SC now, but I agree that SC isn't that big in Korea. It just is relative to everywhere else.

    As for the popularity of Starcraft, I guess a better analogy might be the popularity of soccer in the States. Most people in the US know about soccer and people might even be able to name some of the more famous stars that played there like David Beckham. But not many people really follow the MLS or even the International leagues.

    Pro Starcraft is in a similar boat. A majority of the younger generation in Korea have played Starcraft just like Soccer is one of the most played youth activity in the US. This doesn't mean that interest carries over to professional level. I work at one of the largest online game developers in Korea and almost none of my co-workers know of LeeJaedong, even though he is currently one of the most dominant pro Starcraft pro-gamers. This isn't to say they are ignorant about Starcraft because most of my coworkers could easily kick my butt in the game while barely breaking a sweat. It just means that the overall interest in upper level Starcraft is still limited in scope.

    As for Jaedong having his own shoes, Lecaf is not really a well known brand outside of a few niche circles. Lecaf were originally known as a sportswear manufacturer for martial arts equipment and have the same mainstream exposure as Mitre or Mizuno has in the US. One thing to note is that Adidas does have a special pro-gamer line of sportswear but they also sell a weightlifting line in the same vein.

    Hello! My name is Inigo Montoya! You killed my father prepare to die!
  • UnbreakableVowUnbreakableVow Klonoa of the Wind WAHOO!Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    070815_BillyMitchellPacMan_hmed_2p.hmedium.jpg

    This picture...

    It just pisses me off so much.

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    Magya! | Sometimes I stream PS4 games here | PSN: UnbreakableVow
  • BlackDragon480BlackDragon480 Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    This picture...

    It just pisses me off so much.

    Having talked with Billy Mitchell a couple of times (friend of mine lives just outside Hollywood, Florida and I've met Billy in town when I visited), I can understand. While he's not quite as much of an asshat as King of Kong makes him out to be, he definitely has some narcissistic tendencies.

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  • UnbreakableVowUnbreakableVow Klonoa of the Wind WAHOO!Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    I haven't even seen King of Kong. I fear that I will die of a brain aneurysm if I do. It's just that whenever a gaming mag use to talk about Billy Mitchell, they'd show that picture along with some stuck-up quote.

    "Everyone sucks balls at Pac-Man except me!"

    BwQ9Ecd.jpg?1
    Magya! | Sometimes I stream PS4 games here | PSN: UnbreakableVow
  • SnareSnare Registered User
    edited April 2009
    Maybe I'm an idiot, but what's the difference between an outside sport and playing computer games beyond the physical side? Both require practice and skill and dedication to become really good. I don't see how one is considered less than the other.

    Someone also said something about 'just pressing buttons' but that hardly makes sense, that's just the physical side, soccer could be put down to 'just kicking a ball' if you're thinking along those basic lines.

  • UnbreakableVowUnbreakableVow Klonoa of the Wind WAHOO!Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Well, gaming is just mental. Sports are physical and mental. Sports are also not really pre-defined things. You're two people playing against each other, but you're limited by what the games tell you that can and cannot do. There's a lot more variety when you add in the human factor.

    Plus watching sports isn't completely boring as fuck.

    BwQ9Ecd.jpg?1
    Magya! | Sometimes I stream PS4 games here | PSN: UnbreakableVow
  • Toxin01Toxin01 Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Well, gaming is just mental. Sports are physical and mental. Sports are also not really pre-defined things. You're two people playing against each other, but you're limited by what the games tell you that can and cannot do. There's a lot more variety when you add in the human factor.

    Plus watching sports isn't completely boring as fuck.

    Well, curling.

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  • UnbreakableVowUnbreakableVow Klonoa of the Wind WAHOO!Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Sports = Baseball and socer

    BwQ9Ecd.jpg?1
    Magya! | Sometimes I stream PS4 games here | PSN: UnbreakableVow
  • SparvySparvy Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Sports = Baseball and socer

    So sports = sports you like? Thats a pretty weird stance

  • UnbreakableVowUnbreakableVow Klonoa of the Wind WAHOO!Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    It's a pretty weird world.

    BwQ9Ecd.jpg?1
    Magya! | Sometimes I stream PS4 games here | PSN: UnbreakableVow
  • AntihippyAntihippy Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Sports = Baseball and socer

    It still applies.

    Being bored, that is.

    10454_nujabes2.pngPSN: Antiwhippy
  • Rhesus PositiveRhesus Positive Damn these electric sex pants! Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Toxin01 wrote: »
    Well, gaming is just mental. Sports are physical and mental. Sports are also not really pre-defined things. You're two people playing against each other, but you're limited by what the games tell you that can and cannot do. There's a lot more variety when you add in the human factor.

    Plus watching sports isn't completely boring as fuck.

    Well, curling.

    I like to watch curling :|

    Would you count reaction times as physical? Twitch gaming, that sort of thing?

    I don't really have a leg to stand on when it comes to sports vs video games, as I play competitive tiddlywinks, one of the last amateur sports/games around (in the sense that nobody plays for money). Watching a game of tiddlywinks can be as boring as fuck if you have no idea what's going on, as it's very hard to work out the strategies on the fly. I'd feel the same about watching an RTS being played, as I have no real understanding of why anybody does anything beyond 'kill the other mans'.

    At least some sports can be quickly comprehended - get the ball to x, run to y, that sort of thing.

    Another successful post, thanks to the power of Spacestar Ordering™!
  • Hotlead JunkieHotlead Junkie Registered User
    edited April 2009
    We had a 'pro gamer' in my games design class, apparentley he got paid to play one of the quake games and enter tournaments too, advertising some company's 3d cards or something. He always wore those shirts to class.

    Also, apparentley he didn't shower, or at least shower often. That's what I remember him for mostly.

    And no, most 'pro gamers' shouldn't be allowed on TV. It was like a circus of ugly watching a certian Smash Bros Brawl tournament.

    95% of peoplewho 'professionally' play games aren't really TV personality material/role models for kids. They promote being unhealthy and learning a pointless skill unlike most professional atheletes. I don't watch football and have no interest in it (soccer to the americans here) but I'd rather have my kid obsessivley play football with freinds rather than obsessivley play quake by himself.

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  • DodgeBlanDodgeBlan Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    self-hating gamers ITT

    Spoiler:

    OooOOOoOoOOOooOOOoOOOoOoOOoOOoOOOOOOOOoooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooo
  • AntihippyAntihippy Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    He could obsessively play quake with friends. :P

    To me, professional sports is just about as pointless as professional gaming.

    10454_nujabes2.pngPSN: Antiwhippy
  • SnareSnare Registered User
    edited April 2009
    Professional sports is a joke anyway, 'Hey David Beckham, have £10000000000 to play for a shitty american soccer (lol at that word) team.'

  • LeitnerLeitner Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    95% of peoplewho 'professionally' play games aren't really TV personality material/role models for kids. They promote being unhealthy and learning a pointless skill unlike most professional atheletes. I don't watch football and have no interest in it (soccer to the americans here) but I'd rather have my kid obsessivley play football with freinds rather than obsessivley play quake by himself.
    Spoiler:

  • Hotlead JunkieHotlead Junkie Registered User
    edited April 2009
    The point is he would be a damn sight fitter and interested in his health if he played football compared to if he obsessivley played quake. That's the point I'm trying to make here.

    I love gaming with freinds but most of the time I'm the one who would rather actually go outside and so something rather than putting another 4 hours into the Wii.

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  • AntihippyAntihippy Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Moderation is the key.

    Besides, being obsessed in football/any sports doesn't necessarily guarantee fitness. Go to any sport stadium and you see beer bellies everywhere.

    10454_nujabes2.pngPSN: Antiwhippy
  • DodgeBlanDodgeBlan Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    obsession with anything is bad.

    It's just that being obsessed and getting really good at quake has no benefits (outside of being good at quake), whereas devotion to soccer will have some benefits.

    OooOOOoOoOOOooOOOoOOOoOoOOoOOoOOOOOOOOoooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooo
  • SixSix Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    I can't wait until I can go to my community's quake stadium to watch a match.

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  • Hotlead JunkieHotlead Junkie Registered User
    edited April 2009
    Six wrote: »
    I can't wait until I can go to my community's quake stadium to watch a match.

    The world Quake stadium better be in San Andreas

    tf2_sig.png
  • Fizban140Fizban140 Registered User, __BANNED USERS
    edited April 2009
    Khavall wrote: »
    Pro gaming has two main problems as I see it:

    1: No faces, this has been mentioned. At the end of a tournament I'll be able to differentiate between DInOT[XIDNF] and ZLNGMUTE[SNUT], but fuck if I'll be able to tell one gamer from another tournament to tournament.

    2: Even with really good commentators, no one fucking knows what "Surprise move on the 5-hatch-lurk-spire move with the zling flank against the pylon-nexus-rush" means. You have to know the game to understand what the players are doing, and when you do, it's incredibly awesome to watch. With English-commentary I enjoy watching SC tournaments because I have enough knowledge of the game to understand what a 5-hatch-lurk strategy is. A basic understanding of the rules is important, and there isn't a game people care enough about to get that understanding of yet in America's mainstream.

    Anyone who's trying to argue things like "Well they have a controller so they're not really doing anything" is just completely deluding themselves as to what makes something popular or enjoyable to watch.
    Halo 3 solves both these problems I think. Halo 3 is a very deep and complex game despite what it looks like but to the average view they can see what is going on and get a good feel for the match as it is pretty simple at first. There are also many faces I recognize and I have never been to a tournament. I have watched a few videos online but I would not say I am a big follower of the competitive Halo 3 scene.

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  • Hockey JohnstonHockey Johnston Registered User
    edited April 2009
    I think poker is probably the best analogy -- there were always great personalities, but until someone found a way to make the game understandable to a TV viewer (showing the hole cards) it never took off. Obviously, having a great TV product essentially recruits people to play the game, which in turn improves the level of play and the excitement overall.

    I can fully enjoy watching two great teams face off in CS as long as someone is *directing* and not just relying on the built-in follow cam. Anything becomes interesting if people are playing for enough money that they're willing to cry on camera when they lose.

  • SithDrummerSithDrummer Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Something like CS/CS:S with small "encounter" areas to focus on could work. Maps are typically designed around specific spots for firefights, so you have several faux-CCTV static cameras positioned showing these areas. In addition (or alternately), a director with a top-down view of all players and locations can easily see where skirmishes are about to take place, so you activate a static camera there, or have a dedicated "cameraman" go there and capture it. This is about the only way it could work "live", because as Hockey said, simply relying on the follow cam is boring and doesn't really show much.

    All in all, however, I highly doubt that games will ever reach the same level of coverage in the USA as real sports.

    It's an easy game to hate
  • Hockey JohnstonHockey Johnston Registered User
    edited April 2009

    All in all, however, I highly doubt that games will ever reach the same level of coverage in the USA as real sports.

    While that's probably true, it also doesn't matter. Achieving a poker-like level of popularity would still be an *enormous* step up for computer games.

  • SithDrummerSithDrummer Registered User regular
    edited April 2009

    All in all, however, I highly doubt that games will ever reach the same level of coverage in the USA as real sports.

    While that's probably true, it also doesn't matter. Achieving a poker-like level of popularity would still be an *enormous* step up for computer games.
    This I could see, and the comparison is apt. Considering Starcraft, both it and poker are predominantly mental, and generally uninteresting without being familiar to the game, but familiarity opens up a wealth of strategy.

    It's an easy game to hate
  • SithDrummerSithDrummer Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    jdarksun wrote: »
    All in all, however, I highly doubt that games will ever reach the same level of coverage in the USA as real sports.
    Bolded for emphasis. It's hard to take your opinion seriously when you're not giving equal weight to both sides.

    A sport is any "...activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often engaged in competitively."

    Competitive gaming is a sport. The real question is if it will achieve broadcast popularity.
    I thought for awhile about adding quotation marks, but I thought not in the end. Besides, if games were in the same ballpark (ha-HA), people wouldn't need to call them "e-"sports. And your definition is far too broad - covering everything from musical performance competitions to BINGO.


    What equal weight are you looking for? Am I really not giving games a fair shake, or are you miffed that my fair shake ended up with video games and sports not being on the same page?

    It's an easy game to hate
  • BloodySlothBloodySloth Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Games aren't sports. There's a reason chess isn't an olympic event. Monopoly isn't a sport. Just because something is televised and spectated, doesn't make that thing a sport.

    To be honest, I don't even understand the need for trying to define games as sports. Saying something isn't a sport in no way denies it status as a skilled, competitive event, just like chess. I admire people who rock chess tournaments, but that still doesn't make chess a physical event, which is what I most often see a sport defined as.

    Dictionary.com says:
    an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature

    In short, video games aren't sports, but that doesn't mean they inherently take less skill, strategy, or are less viable in competition.

  • BloodySlothBloodySloth Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    jdarksun wrote: »
    Dictionary.com says:
    an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature
    And that's definitely one way to define "sports", but it discounts auto racing entirely. Is Formula 1 not a sport because Lewis Hamilton and Kimi Räikkönen are driving cars instead of running around a track?

    Have you seen those guys? Driving an F1 car most certainly takes physical prowess. They train regularly just so they can be in shape enough to effectively fight their own cars.

    edit: http://www.f1technical.net/features/3646 talks about the physical strains put on the human body during an F1 race.

  • G RolG Rol Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    jdarksun wrote: »
    Dictionary.com says:
    an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature
    And that's definitely one way to define "sports", but it discounts auto racing entirely. Is Formula 1 not a sport because Lewis Hamilton and Kimi Räikkönen are driving cars instead of running around a track?

    Auto racing is usually defined as a motorsport. That's a pretty specific distinction.

  • SparvySparvy Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Games aren't sports. There's a reason chess isn't an olympic event. Monopoly isn't a sport. Just because something is televised and spectated, doesn't make that thing a sport.

    To be honest, I don't even understand the need for trying to define games as sports. Saying something isn't a sport in no way denies it status as a skilled, competitive event, just like chess. I admire people who rock chess tournaments, but that still doesn't make chess a physical event, which is what I most often see a sport defined as.

    Dictionary.com says:
    an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature

    In short, video games aren't sports, but that doesn't mean they inherently take less skill, strategy, or are less viable in competition.

    The thing is this a lot more fuzzy if you go in deeper. Take curling, or how about all the different branches of shooting (I once an olympic final in pistol between a 16 year old boy and a 50 + old man with a beer belly, the old man won), or racing, etc etc. Alot of those "sports" have some of the elite being frankly obese, is that still an athletic activity?

  • ArcSynArcSyn Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Games aren't sports. There's a reason chess isn't an olympic event. Monopoly isn't a sport. Just because something is televised and spectated, doesn't make that thing a sport.

    To be honest, I don't even understand the need for trying to define games as sports. Saying something isn't a sport in no way denies it status as a skilled, competitive event, just like chess. I admire people who rock chess tournaments, but that still doesn't make chess a physical event, which is what I most often see a sport defined as.

    Dictionary.com says:
    an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature

    In short, video games aren't sports, but that doesn't mean they inherently take less skill, strategy, or are less viable in competition.

    The problem with including physical activity is that what sports are already considered sports that have little to no physical movement?

    Archery? You pull back a bow string and release your fingers. One could think you could work up a bigger sweat playing an FPS.
    Ping Pong? My wife and I talk about this every time the olympics come around because she doesn't think there's enough movement to consider it a sport.
    Target Shooting? Isn't pulling a trigger similar in activity to clicking a button?

    Where's the line drawn in physical activity that determines sport or not sport? Chess you move your whole arm and fingers when you're moving a piece, so there's physical activity in it. We can't just make up a boundary when there's so many activities that aren't clearly on one side or the other.

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  • BloodySlothBloodySloth Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    ArcSyn wrote: »
    Games aren't sports. There's a reason chess isn't an olympic event. Monopoly isn't a sport. Just because something is televised and spectated, doesn't make that thing a sport.

    To be honest, I don't even understand the need for trying to define games as sports. Saying something isn't a sport in no way denies it status as a skilled, competitive event, just like chess. I admire people who rock chess tournaments, but that still doesn't make chess a physical event, which is what I most often see a sport defined as.

    Dictionary.com says:
    an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature

    In short, video games aren't sports, but that doesn't mean they inherently take less skill, strategy, or are less viable in competition.

    The problem with including physical activity is that what sports are already considered sports that have little to no physical movement?

    Archery? You pull back a bow string and release your fingers. One could think you could work up a bigger sweat playing an FPS.
    Ping Pong? My wife and I talk about this every time the olympics come around because she doesn't think there's enough movement to consider it a sport.
    Target Shooting? Isn't pulling a trigger similar in activity to clicking a button?

    Where's the line drawn in physical activity that determines sport or not sport? Chess you move your whole arm and fingers when you're moving a piece, so there's physical activity in it. We can't just make up a boundary when there's so many activities that aren't clearly on one side or the other.

    All of those examples, at their highest levels, still take a great deal of control over your own body. I'm not sure how comfortable I am saying something like target shooting is a sport, but if the Olympic committee says it is, that's fine with them. Sitting on a couch and pulling a trigger with no consideration to how the rest of your body is behaving is in no way similar to standing stock still, monitoring your own heartbeat and breathing cycles, and controlling/timing them perfectly enough to beat a bunch of other people trying to do the same thing.

    And saying table tennis doesn't take a great deal of fitness is just wrong. Those guys run all over the damn place to get that little ball. It's kind of a silly sport in my opinion, but it's still a sport.

  • KrunkMcGrunkKrunkMcGrunk Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    I honestly think that the problem with gaming as a sport is that there are just too many games, and people will change what games they play when something new comes out. It's really hard for me to appreciate a competition in Street Fighter if I've only ever played Soul Caliber.

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