Haha, funny this thread came up today. I played my friend in SF4 today, I pretty much wanted to kick the TV after 5 matches (10 games) cause I couldn't get him below 50% HP even once. Kind of bullshit.
Duh, anyone should be able to pick up a game and instantly be as good as the person who owns it and obviously plays a lot. This is America, we don't put up with that "having to invest time and effort to be good at something" bullshit.
Duh, anyone should be able to pick up a game and instantly be as good as the person who owns it and obviously plays a lot. This is America, we don't put up with that "having to invest time and effort to be good at something" bullshit.
Uh, it's a video game, not a fucking competitive sport. It's not fun if a new player can't possibly beat someone who's been playing for a while.
Especially MvC2
Duh, anyone should be able to pick up a game and instantly be as good as the person who owns it and obviously plays a lot. This is America, we don't put up with that "having to invest time and effort to be good at something" bullshit.
Uh, it's a video game, not a fucking competitive sport. It's not fun if a new player can't possibly beat someone who's been playing for a while.
I can't think of many games that are like that in general...FPS, RTS, fighting games, even like worms and stuff like that. The advantage goes to the person that's good. Why is there a problem with this?
Not everyone wants a built in catch up mode in every game.
Duh, anyone should be able to pick up a game and instantly be as good as the person who owns it and obviously plays a lot. This is America, we don't put up with that "having to invest time and effort to be good at something" bullshit.
Uh, it's a video game, not a fucking competitive sport. It's not fun if a new player can't possibly beat someone who's been playing for a while.[
Not really. It's not ridiculously impossible to beat an expert in a shooting game, some strategy games, and even certain fighting games (Soul Caliber, smash).
I generally like fighting games but I think I've reached my plateau of skill. And it's really more like an anthill. Just got SF4 and I adore it, the graphics are awesome, the characters are a wonderful mix of nostalgia and freshness, and I absolutely suck. I seriously cannot finish even the third trial for most characters, the basic cancelling one. Perhaps I'm just getting older and my reflexes aren't there anymore.
I don't feel a great need to practice intensively to get better, either. I suspect that I'll be Goozexing/trading it in once either the new UFC or Batman hits.
I am pretty much the same. I've always liked fighting games and the SF series but I don't have the drive to learn how to do cancels and stuff. I tend to take games at face value and don't really have the attention span to learn the intricacies of combo links, cancels, priorities, kara throws, invincibility frames and all that other shit that goes along with mid-high level play.
Some people absolutely get off on that kind of depth though, so there will always be a market for those kinds of games. I crave something a little simpler, but as long as you're playing against other people at your skill level, few things are as fun as kicking the crap out of your buddies in some street fighter or soul calibur.
Duh, anyone should be able to pick up a game and instantly be as good as the person who owns it and obviously plays a lot. This is America, we don't put up with that "having to invest time and effort to be good at something" bullshit.
Uh, it's a video game, not a fucking competitive sport. It's not fun if a new player can't possibly beat someone who's been playing for a while.
Especially MvC2
So turn off the tv and play rock paper scissors if that is what you want.
No, I'm not high, I was pretty good at TF2 right off the bat, I've had people that have only played a few times before beat me at Halo. I've beaten my brother and his friends in Soul Caliber and smash and I don't even own either game.
I recall beating one of my friends in Starcraft my second time playing.
Either way, SF 4 has too steep a learning curve and will put a lot of people off.
Especially when you think about how many combos there are to memorize for each character.
No, I'm not high, I was pretty good at TF2 right off the bat, I've had people that have only played a few times before beat me at Halo. I've beaten my brother and his friends in Soul Caliber and smash and I don't even own either game.
I recall beating one of my friends in Starcraft my second time playing.
Your friends suck at all the video games they play. I'm not trying to be a dick, I'm stating a fact. If you can come in and beat them without even knowing the nuances of serious play (because all of those games have serious high level games), they're fucking awful.
Either way, SF 4 has too steep a learning curve and will put a lot of people off.
The game came out like a million years ago. Anyone that is put off by that probably isn't playing anymore, which honestly is for the better in my opinion.
Either way, SF 4 has too steep a learning curve and will put a lot of people off.
Especially when you think about how many combos there are to memorize for each character.
I have over 2000bp (not a lot, but I mostly know what I'm doing), and I use exactly three combos, none of which require the ridiculously precise timing the ones in training/challenge mode do. The longest one is four moves.
Either way, SF 4 has too steep a learning curve and will put a lot of people off.
Especially when you think about how many combos there are to memorize for each character.
Look... people who enjoy SF4 don't mind losing to someone who is better. If you do, this (and every other competitive multiplayer game) is not for you.
I don't know what kind of 'experts' your friends are, but if they're losing at starcraft/smash/Soul Caliber to someone who doesn't own the game, they're not very good.
There are plenty of games out there where people can pick it up and have a good chance of winning. But for people who want to get better at a game and see results, those games exist as well.
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
edited April 2009
Yeah...I'm no where near the skill level of the top players and I still work people's shit in SF4. And if I lose...meh, just have to get better.
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acidlacedpenguinInstitutionalizedSafe in jail.Registered Userregular
Duh, anyone should be able to pick up a game and instantly be as good as the person who owns it and obviously plays a lot. This is America, we don't put up with that "having to invest time and effort to be good at something" bullshit.
Uh, it's a video game, not a fucking competitive sport. It's not fun if a new player can't possibly beat someone who's been playing for a while.
Especially MvC2
um what? I always thought MvC2 was the game to haul out when playing games for shiggles because it's so insane even if you're sucking hard it's a blast picking crazy teams and blowing each other away with giant super moves.
No, I'm not high, I was pretty good at TF2 right off the bat, I've had people that have only played a few times before beat me at Halo. I've beaten my brother and his friends in Soul Caliber and smash and I don't even own either game.
I recall beating one of my friends in Starcraft my second time playing.
Your friends suck at all the video games they play. I'm not trying to be a dick, I'm stating a fact. If you can come in and beat them without even knowing the nuances of serious play (because all of those games have serious high level games), they're fucking awful.
I though that it was kinda funny that he used starcraft as an example. That is a game where if you don't know what you're doing, someone who's has been playing a while, not even an expert can seriously fuck your shit up. My brother, after the SC beta went like 200-0, finally being beaten after it had been out for 2 months.
No, I'm not high, I was pretty good at TF2 right off the bat, I've had people that have only played a few times before beat me at Halo. I've beaten my brother and his friends in Soul Caliber and smash and I don't even own either game.
I recall beating one of my friends in Starcraft my second time playing.
Your friends suck at all the video games they play. I'm not trying to be a dick, I'm stating a fact. If you can come in and beat them without even knowing the nuances of serious play (because all of those games have serious high level games), they're fucking awful.
I though that it was kinda funny that he used starcraft as an example. That is a game where if you don't know what you're doing, someone who's has been playing a while, not even an expert can seriously fuck your shit up. My brother, after the SC beta went like 200-0, finally being beaten after it had been out for 2 months.
Didn't read the entire thread yet, but here's my two cents at least:
I used to hate fighting games. I was much more of a strategy game guy; Starcraft and all that. There was an unquenchable fire that burned within me that made me hate fighting games so much. Looking back now, I couldn't really remember why, but I do remember one of my cousins introducing me to Guilty Gear maybe about two Christmases ago. I was skeptical but willing to give it a go since the game looked absolutely gorgeous. I sucked at first, like any newbie, but I was also really angry. My cousin kept doing this one move. It came out fast like a jab, and it was the opening to a pretty devastating combo. And I kept falling right into it.
I was ready to throw away the controller and storm angrily away, but maybe seeing the rage in my eyes, my cousin told me to calm down, and that he'd show me some ways how to counter it. Now this was a really important moment in my fighting game life. I could walk away and never touch fighting games again, or I could sit down, shut up, and learn. I chose the latter, and we ran through the rest of the day just him teaching me some rote bread-and-butter combos and their weaknesses, how they're countered, etc. The similarities this had to learning RTS games was not lost on me. Two years later, I play a pretty mean Baiken. I look at frame data, move properties, and most of all, go to the local arcade to match wits against the good players. It makes a hell of a difference if you're just willing to learn. All games are like this. I went through precisely the same thing learning RTS games. I don't see why fighting games should be singled out.
As for the control issue, come on, compared to the keyboard/mouse ballet you have to conduct in RTS games, I find fighting games are actually pretty simple. And some of them actually DO have invisible advantages to their motion, and it's not just arbitrary. For example, Baiken in Guilty Gear is a character based around comboing from guard cancel moves. These are basically moves that come after you get hit by the enemy while blocking, basically a riposte. All of them are done by pressing back+down+face button. This allows you to immediately flow into your guard cancel immediately after you get hit. If they had done forward+down+face button instead, it would have felt weird, and would have left you extremely open if you failed in attempting your guard cancel.
No, I'm not high, I was pretty good at TF2 right off the bat
I'm going to guess that you play a lot of FPS games, thus, you already have practice in basic, transferable skills. This is true for most FPS games; it's easy to jump in if you've played another and do well, and you become an expert as you master the specifics of a given game.
Do you play a lot of 2D Fighters? If not, then no, you don't have existing transferable skills, and thus will suck when you first pick it up.
Anyway, you seem to think that you should be able to pick up a completely unfamiliar game and beat someone who's been playing it for at least a modest amount of time. Barring the occasional prodigy, shit don't work that way, and it's not the game's fault. It's up to the player to put in the time to become good at it.
Seriously. Do people complain that they can't hit free throws the first time they pick up a Basketball, or do they practice it for hours on end?
Yeah, a lot of getting good quickly at anything involves having someone a lot better than you there to say "that sucked! Why did you do such a sucky thing?"
If you just tried to get good at street fighter by playing online, I could see it being a horrible experience. I wipe the floor with those players, because they develop tons of bad habits that don't manifest if you play against other people in the same room.
*Sigh* I wish that they would make more guilty gears. Like, guilty gears that isn't a rts/dynasty warriors hybrid and also isn't based on XX. Give us GGXXX already!
Playing online, or playing with anyone with experience, is a pretty good way to learn though to me. I get destroyed plenty of times, but playing with humans is alot more informative than playing against CPU.
Playing online, or playing with anyone with experience, is a pretty good way to learn though to me. I get destroyed plenty of times, but playing with humans is alot more informative than playing against CPU.
One would think, but playing online only gives you a pretty skewed experience towards people who can make combos but not do any sort of zoning or mixups/mind games.
That is, in SFIV online, sit there and block versus ken or ryu, then punish whiffed shoryukens with a combo or a throw. You'll gain rank fast. They get tons of positive reinforcement on bad habits from playing other kens and ryus who are so worried about pulling combos that they never block, so they don't learn even if you make them look like an idiot by doing the same punishment move to them over and over.
Playing versus someone in the same room or at least someone you know is good online is way better than just random online matchups, which are very nearly as bad as vs CPU.
If I just sit there and block all day I'm pretty much guaranteed to eat a throw or overhead. :P
I don't know about you, but I rarely get shoryuken happy Kens and Ryus scrubs anymore. Most of them actually know how to play. More fun to play against, too.
If you are playing ranked in the 1500-2500bp range, there are still tons of those scrubs around.
In fact, I'd much sooner advise playing vs the computer on hard and just trying to block everything (don't press any attack buttons and see how long you can last) than playing against random online people if you are having problems winning. It's how I broke from suck to moderate.
*Sigh* I wish that they would make more guilty gears. Like, guilty gears that isn't a rts/dynasty warriors hybrid and also isn't based on XX. Give us GGXXX already!
Playing online, or playing with anyone with experience, is a pretty good way to learn though to me. I get destroyed plenty of times, but playing with humans is alot more informative than playing against CPU.
As Arcsys lost the rights to guilty gear characters to Sega, which is why they're making crappy rts/dynasty warrior hybrids, we won't be seeing another GG anytime soon. Have to make due with blazblue!
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acidlacedpenguinInstitutionalizedSafe in jail.Registered Userregular
Well, Arcsys had a publishing agreement with Sammy, and then Sammy merged with Sega.
But Arcsys has been busy developing other fighting games (Hokuto no Ken, Blazblue), so I don't think it's as if Arcsys wants to make a new Guilty Gear but Sega won't let them.
(lol at this becoming a miscellaneous fighting game thread)
Fighting games are, by definition, a zero-sum game. Zero-sum games always have losers. People hate to lose. People who start playing fighting games almost always lose. Thus, people hate fighting games.
That and scrubby players almost always lose to retarded tactics.
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Duh, anyone should be able to pick up a game and instantly be as good as the person who owns it and obviously plays a lot. This is America, we don't put up with that "having to invest time and effort to be good at something" bullshit.
Uh, it's a video game, not a fucking competitive sport. It's not fun if a new player can't possibly beat someone who's been playing for a while.
Especially MvC2
I can't think of many games that are like that in general...FPS, RTS, fighting games, even like worms and stuff like that. The advantage goes to the person that's good. Why is there a problem with this?
Not everyone wants a built in catch up mode in every game.
FFBE: 898,311,440
Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/dElementalor
What the fuck did I just read?
I am pretty much the same. I've always liked fighting games and the SF series but I don't have the drive to learn how to do cancels and stuff. I tend to take games at face value and don't really have the attention span to learn the intricacies of combo links, cancels, priorities, kara throws, invincibility frames and all that other shit that goes along with mid-high level play.
Some people absolutely get off on that kind of depth though, so there will always be a market for those kinds of games. I crave something a little simpler, but as long as you're playing against other people at your skill level, few things are as fun as kicking the crap out of your buddies in some street fighter or soul calibur.
Come clean here.
Are you high?
So turn off the tv and play rock paper scissors if that is what you want.
I recall beating one of my friends in Starcraft my second time playing.
Especially when you think about how many combos there are to memorize for each character.
Your friends suck at all the video games they play. I'm not trying to be a dick, I'm stating a fact. If you can come in and beat them without even knowing the nuances of serious play (because all of those games have serious high level games), they're fucking awful.
The game came out like a million years ago. Anyone that is put off by that probably isn't playing anymore, which honestly is for the better in my opinion.
I have over 2000bp (not a lot, but I mostly know what I'm doing), and I use exactly three combos, none of which require the ridiculously precise timing the ones in training/challenge mode do. The longest one is four moves.
Look... people who enjoy SF4 don't mind losing to someone who is better. If you do, this (and every other competitive multiplayer game) is not for you.
I don't know what kind of 'experts' your friends are, but if they're losing at starcraft/smash/Soul Caliber to someone who doesn't own the game, they're not very good.
There are plenty of games out there where people can pick it up and have a good chance of winning. But for people who want to get better at a game and see results, those games exist as well.
GT: Tanky the Tank
Black: 1377 6749 7425
um what? I always thought MvC2 was the game to haul out when playing games for shiggles because it's so insane even if you're sucking hard it's a blast picking crazy teams and blowing each other away with giant super moves.
I though that it was kinda funny that he used starcraft as an example. That is a game where if you don't know what you're doing, someone who's has been playing a while, not even an expert can seriously fuck your shit up. My brother, after the SC beta went like 200-0, finally being beaten after it had been out for 2 months.
It's also a professional, competitive game.
FFBE: 898,311,440
Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/dElementalor
I used to hate fighting games. I was much more of a strategy game guy; Starcraft and all that. There was an unquenchable fire that burned within me that made me hate fighting games so much. Looking back now, I couldn't really remember why, but I do remember one of my cousins introducing me to Guilty Gear maybe about two Christmases ago. I was skeptical but willing to give it a go since the game looked absolutely gorgeous. I sucked at first, like any newbie, but I was also really angry. My cousin kept doing this one move. It came out fast like a jab, and it was the opening to a pretty devastating combo. And I kept falling right into it.
I was ready to throw away the controller and storm angrily away, but maybe seeing the rage in my eyes, my cousin told me to calm down, and that he'd show me some ways how to counter it. Now this was a really important moment in my fighting game life. I could walk away and never touch fighting games again, or I could sit down, shut up, and learn. I chose the latter, and we ran through the rest of the day just him teaching me some rote bread-and-butter combos and their weaknesses, how they're countered, etc. The similarities this had to learning RTS games was not lost on me. Two years later, I play a pretty mean Baiken. I look at frame data, move properties, and most of all, go to the local arcade to match wits against the good players. It makes a hell of a difference if you're just willing to learn. All games are like this. I went through precisely the same thing learning RTS games. I don't see why fighting games should be singled out.
As for the control issue, come on, compared to the keyboard/mouse ballet you have to conduct in RTS games, I find fighting games are actually pretty simple. And some of them actually DO have invisible advantages to their motion, and it's not just arbitrary. For example, Baiken in Guilty Gear is a character based around comboing from guard cancel moves. These are basically moves that come after you get hit by the enemy while blocking, basically a riposte. All of them are done by pressing back+down+face button. This allows you to immediately flow into your guard cancel immediately after you get hit. If they had done forward+down+face button instead, it would have felt weird, and would have left you extremely open if you failed in attempting your guard cancel.
Do you play a lot of 2D Fighters? If not, then no, you don't have existing transferable skills, and thus will suck when you first pick it up.
Anyway, you seem to think that you should be able to pick up a completely unfamiliar game and beat someone who's been playing it for at least a modest amount of time. Barring the occasional prodigy, shit don't work that way, and it's not the game's fault. It's up to the player to put in the time to become good at it.
Seriously. Do people complain that they can't hit free throws the first time they pick up a Basketball, or do they practice it for hours on end?
Yeah, a lot of getting good quickly at anything involves having someone a lot better than you there to say "that sucked! Why did you do such a sucky thing?"
If you just tried to get good at street fighter by playing online, I could see it being a horrible experience. I wipe the floor with those players, because they develop tons of bad habits that don't manifest if you play against other people in the same room.
*Sigh* I wish that they would make more guilty gears. Like, guilty gears that isn't a rts/dynasty warriors hybrid and also isn't based on XX. Give us GGXXX already!
Playing online, or playing with anyone with experience, is a pretty good way to learn though to me. I get destroyed plenty of times, but playing with humans is alot more informative than playing against CPU.
One would think, but playing online only gives you a pretty skewed experience towards people who can make combos but not do any sort of zoning or mixups/mind games.
That is, in SFIV online, sit there and block versus ken or ryu, then punish whiffed shoryukens with a combo or a throw. You'll gain rank fast. They get tons of positive reinforcement on bad habits from playing other kens and ryus who are so worried about pulling combos that they never block, so they don't learn even if you make them look like an idiot by doing the same punishment move to them over and over.
Playing versus someone in the same room or at least someone you know is good online is way better than just random online matchups, which are very nearly as bad as vs CPU.
If I just sit there and block all day I'm pretty much guaranteed to eat a throw or overhead. :P
I don't know about you, but I rarely get shoryuken happy Kens and Ryus scrubs anymore. Most of them actually know how to play. More fun to play against, too.
Harder to get wins against, but still.
In fact, I'd much sooner advise playing vs the computer on hard and just trying to block everything (don't press any attack buttons and see how long you can last) than playing against random online people if you are having problems winning. It's how I broke from suck to moderate.
Player matches are where I go to practice.
I don't really have patience for CPU when I can access online. :P
It is a goddamn crime it has not been remade in some capacity.
Fixed and limed some truth.
As Arcsys lost the rights to guilty gear characters to Sega, which is why they're making crappy rts/dynasty warrior hybrids, we won't be seeing another GG anytime soon. Have to make due with blazblue!
Sega has some pretty interesting photos that Arcsys' wife would like to see.
But Arcsys has been busy developing other fighting games (Hokuto no Ken, Blazblue), so I don't think it's as if Arcsys wants to make a new Guilty Gear but Sega won't let them.
(lol at this becoming a miscellaneous fighting game thread)
That and scrubby players almost always lose to retarded tactics.