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Presenting Kima! Your AI popstar...

WMain00WMain00 Registered User
edited April 2009 in Debate and/or Discourse
Reading Idoru got me thinking about the possibilities of the future and music. I'm not particularly a fan of music of today, mainly because most of it seems to be synthesized nonsense. Going through itunes the top of the music video charts in the UK is Lady GaGa recent video, a woman who in my mind is the equivalent of a blow up doll; absolutely no mind whatsoever. A product of a music industry with set ideas of what sells and what doesn't. Oh indeed GaGa will sell lots of money.

In William Gibson's Idoru, Gibson tells us of a synthetic personality known as Rei Toei; effectively an artifical intelligence designed to simulate a human female, which adapts and learns via interaction with humans. Something as complex as that is quite amazing to read considering to book was made in 1997, just as the Internet was kick starting.

Yet how far are we really from creating such a thing ourself? Imagine the possibilities. No longer would you have pay these singers, or pay for there habits and vices that follow them. Suddenly you can tell them what to do exactly as you want it to be via coding and synthesis. You could create the popstar to be whatever you want to be, and have it on live shows anywhere in the world simultaeneously.

An example of such an idea of this that never really came into fruition was Ananova, the news presenter that back when we were immature about how the Net worked we theorised was going to take over news broadcasters jobs because it would cheaper and easier to build. Of course the truth back then was that we didn't have the technology to do such a thing, but nowadays we do! What's more is we have the video community technology to publish it rapidly. To get it known and get going. Suddenly your pop star is out of a job because Kima! (random name) has come into town with new popular music and vocal chords that can range above and beyond any other pop star.

So, how far do you think we are from creating the Rei Toei's of the music world? Is it just one step away? A simple matter of fine tuning our AI technology? Or is it a storm in a teacup idea?

Reference Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idoru

WMain00 on
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Posts

  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Holy God! Quick, keep tell the Armed Forces to shut down every single computer they have!

    ALL OF THEM, DAMMIT! This is an emergency! We were killing people just fine before the digital processor, we can do it again! My God, what do you mean the Russians are still using gauges and vacuum tubes in their aircraft?! Those clever bastards! We must close the punch-card gap!


    [/totally irrelevant diatribe]

    Anyway, it is quite a coincidence (given that Macross Plus came out in 1994), all the same, it's quite interesting. A case of a new, and potentially very profitable marriage of capitalism and technology, replacing capitalism's negotiation with 'art', I guess we'd call it.

    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
  • AldoAldo Hippo Hooray the swamp, always the swampRegistered User regular
    edited April 2009
    You base your judgement on 'today's music' on the current most popular song? ... Really? If you would have even paid an iota of attention you would have noticed that the most popular songs are not necessarily about the composition, but about the personality of the performing artists. The song is not popular because po-po-po-po-po-pokerface, but because Lady Gaga dresses in insane ways and came out of nowhere with this insane videoclip.

    I would also like to pose that good music as opposed to music that is just popular (and on rare occasions the two can overlap) has something going for it that a machine can not possess: soul. A good song makes you feel emotions, a robot cannot do that and - unless the movie AI becomes reality - never will.

    Elendil wrote: »
    said Aldo hazily, before clop-clop-clopping out of the room
  • WMain00WMain00 Registered User
    edited April 2009
    Good point, i forgot that Macross Plus came up with the same idea as well.

  • CherrnCherrn Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Screw robots. Alien singers are the wave of the future

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4PMHt7vSE8

    All creature will die and all the things will be broken. That's the law of samurai.
  • necroSYSnecroSYS Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited April 2009
    Aldo wrote: »
    I would also like to pose that good music as opposed to music that is just popular (and on rare occasions the two can overlap) has something going for it that a machine can not possess: soul. A good song makes you feel emotions, a robot cannot do that and - unless the movie AI becomes reality - never will.
    I would argue that a sufficiently advanced AI could assimilate the chord progressions, lyric devices, and note patterns that make up all of the "good music" that's ever been recorded and will be able to extrapolate that (given sufficient tuning) into music which the human ear and the human mind will interpret in the same ways as the "good music" you're referencing.

    One of Gibson's most interesting concepts was that of machines creating art (in music or visual form) which had access to emotions that humans could not replicate. The machines evoked loneliness and sadness in ways that transcended the human experience and allowed people to feel the ache of eternities.

    There's no point in you getting both of yourselves all worked up and ready to chart the undiscovered country, then having her flush crimson red, run to the bathroom, and spend twenty minutes straining and grunting and stressing out because you're all ready to deliver your package but there's a three inch thick Sunday paper clogging up the mail slot.
  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    necroSYS wrote: »
    Aldo wrote: »
    I would also like to pose that good music as opposed to music that is just popular (and on rare occasions the two can overlap) has something going for it that a machine can not possess: soul. A good song makes you feel emotions, a robot cannot do that and - unless the movie AI becomes reality - never will.
    I would argue that a sufficiently advanced AI could assimilate the chord progressions, lyric devices, and note patterns that make up all of the "good music" that's ever been recorded and will be able to extrapolate that (given sufficient tuning) into music which the human ear and the human mind will interpret in the same ways as the "good music" you're referencing.

    One of Gibson's most interesting concepts was that of machines creating art (in music or visual form) which had access to emotions that humans could not replicate. The machines evoked loneliness and sadness in ways that transcended the human experience and allowed people to feel the ache of eternities.

    Honestly, what the hell is good music anyway? I suppose it is broken down into a science (certain sounds are more pleasing to the human ear than others), but music based on those sciences is not going to be universally beloved anyway.

    I spend most of my childhood smashing my hands against a wood keyboard playing the 'classics'--music that, given the choice, I probably wouldn't listen to 90% of the time. So what is 'good'? Everyone has an opinion, but it's going to be subjective, when you get right down to it.

    I certainly wouldn't argue that a lot of popular music is 'bad' in my opinion, but I can guarantee there's a song I think is good that other people think is bad, and vice versa. It's too subjective. Back to the computers trying to imitate human behavior....

    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
  • never dienever die Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Aldo wrote: »

    I would also like to pose that good music as opposed to music that is just popular (and on rare occasions the two can overlap) has something going for it that a machine can not possess: soul. A good song makes you feel emotions, a robot cannot do that and - unless the movie AI becomes reality - never will.

    Pop music still has soul, I think. The reason it's pop music is is able to capture commonly felt emotions or experiences, and uses that to sell the song. That's why we have all of these "yay! love!" "boo! love!" "Yay!sex" and "oh noes someone died!" songs.

    Spoiler:
  • AldoAldo Hippo Hooray the swamp, always the swampRegistered User regular
    edited April 2009
    t Synthesis: That is why I placed 'good' in italics and defined it as music that had soul as to make it bring forth emotions. Sorry if that wasn't clear for you. It's absolutely not a science, it's opinions. What someone living in Lapland might consider good music, someone in Burkina Faso might consider the sound of goats being decapitated and vice versa.

    Elendil wrote: »
    said Aldo hazily, before clop-clop-clopping out of the room
  • zakkielzakkiel Registered User
    edited April 2009
    necroSYS wrote: »
    Aldo wrote: »
    I would also like to pose that good music as opposed to music that is just popular (and on rare occasions the two can overlap) has something going for it that a machine can not possess: soul. A good song makes you feel emotions, a robot cannot do that and - unless the movie AI becomes reality - never will.
    I would argue that a sufficiently advanced AI could assimilate the chord progressions, lyric devices, and note patterns that make up all of the "good music" that's ever been recorded and will be able to extrapolate that (given sufficient tuning) into music which the human ear and the human mind will interpret in the same ways as the "good music" you're referencing.

    One of Gibson's most interesting concepts was that of machines creating art (in music or visual form) which had access to emotions that humans could not replicate. The machines evoked loneliness and sadness in ways that transcended the human experience and allowed people to feel the ache of eternities.

    http://blog.wired.com/music/2008/05/survey-produced.html

    :?:

    Smash Bros - 4639-8632-8299 (WA)
  • durandal4532durandal4532 Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    We will never create an AI pop-star. There's no reason to make it intelligent.


    In all seriousness, it's not the "intelligence" bit that's holding back having a nonhuman pop star, it's the inability to play live shows and the CG being still slightly too bad to pass as real. It's not as though the industry is looking to create songs written by an AI, they're looking for a decent profit margin.

    As for whether an AI could make decent music, of course one could. Unless your definition of AI involves something other than it being sentient.

  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Aldo wrote: »
    t Synthesis: That is why I placed 'good' in italics and defined it as music that had soul as to make it bring forth emotions. Sorry if that wasn't clear for you. It's absolutely not a science, it's opinions. What someone living in Lapland might consider good music, someone in Burkina Faso might consider the sound of goats being decapitated and vice versa.

    Thanks. I'm one of those people who gets all up-in-arms when people use the word "good music". It's the product of being surrounded by people who are adamant that one form of music is 'good', then turning around and being surrounded by another group (or the same group) who are adamant that it sucks, and using the same arguments both times.

    I'll accept that the emotional aspect of music is usually beneficial to the experience, so long as we aren't narrowing it down to a specific type of music (this is precisely why I almost never share what specific songs I like). Then again, you'd be hard pressed to find a song that didn't have some sort of emotional factor in it. I love the Alexandrov Red Army Choir, and that's chock full of emotion (if not the normal kind in music).

    On the other hand, I could see AI having difficulty replicating that emotion sporadically (pre-rehearsed is another story). And that would be a problem.

    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
  • JebusUDJebusUD Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    It won't happen. People at least want the illusion of the genuine. Record companies put a lot of work into not only marketing and creating music, but making it seem as real as possible.

    With an AI people will know that it is totally artificial. Without at least some glimmer of the genuine, I doubt people would buy it.

    Maybe the record company could lie and say it is a real person.

    You haven't given me a reason to steer clear of you!
  • CantidoCantido Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    The movie S1mone?

    steam_sig.png
  • CervetusCervetus Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Aldo wrote: »
    You base your judgement on 'today's music' on the current most popular song? ... Really? If you would have even paid an iota of attention you would have noticed that the most popular songs are not necessarily about the composition, but about the personality of the performing artists. The song is not popular because po-po-po-po-po-pokerface, but because Lady Gaga dresses in insane ways and came out of nowhere with this insane videoclip.

    Basically, this is it. They wouldn't want to make a pop singer without the "vices" because it's those vices that make the singer interesting to audiences. If some pop singer were to stay sober and polite throughout their career they would have a short career. Britney Spears, for example, is way past her expiration date as a musician, but she still makes people money because she seems like such a train wreck. Same for Madonna, who only stays with us because lol Kabbalah and lol adopting Africans.

    The libertarian response to anything is, "Sure, that works fine in practice, but it doesn't fly in theory."
  • JebusUDJebusUD Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Cervetus wrote: »
    If some pop singer were to stay sober and polite throughout their career they would have a short career.

    What about Justin Timberlake?

    You haven't given me a reason to steer clear of you!
  • AldoAldo Hippo Hooray the swamp, always the swampRegistered User regular
    edited April 2009
    JebusUD wrote: »
    Cervetus wrote: »
    If some pop singer were to stay sober and polite throughout their career they would have a short career.

    What about Justin Timberlake?

    Cute kid, sexy videoclips, good producer, works together with artists who are also popular and good looking.

    And he's a comeback kid: after nsync we didn't really expect to hear anything from them ever again, but like Robby Williams he came back.

    Elendil wrote: »
    said Aldo hazily, before clop-clop-clopping out of the room
  • JebusUDJebusUD Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Aldo wrote: »
    JebusUD wrote: »
    Cervetus wrote: »
    If some pop singer were to stay sober and polite throughout their career they would have a short career.

    What about Justin Timberlake?

    Cute kid, sexy videoclips, good producer, works together with artists who are also popular and good looking.

    And he's a comeback kid: after nsync we didn't really expect to hear anything from them ever again, but like Robby Williams he came back.

    My point is, he is not a dick. He is sober and polite throughout his career. Hell, he is on nickelodeon a whole bunch for award shows. He has had a long career.

    You haven't given me a reason to steer clear of you!
  • AldoAldo Hippo Hooray the swamp, always the swampRegistered User regular
    edited April 2009
    JebusUD wrote: »
    Aldo wrote: »
    JebusUD wrote: »
    Cervetus wrote: »
    If some pop singer were to stay sober and polite throughout their career they would have a short career.

    What about Justin Timberlake?

    Cute kid, sexy videoclips, good producer, works together with artists who are also popular and good looking.

    And he's a comeback kid: after nsync we didn't really expect to hear anything from them ever again, but like Robby Williams he came back.

    My point is, he is not a dick. He is sober and polite throughout his career. Hell, he is on nickelodeon a whole bunch for award shows. He has had a long career.

    Didn't he create the Nipple-gate, though?

    And yea, I don't think Cervetus' post is like a set-in-stone rule, there are many other reasons why folks can remain popular for extended periods of time.

    Elendil wrote: »
    said Aldo hazily, before clop-clop-clopping out of the room
  • Hockey JohnstonHockey Johnston Registered User
    edited April 2009
    necroSYS wrote: »
    I would argue that a sufficiently advanced AI could assimilate the chord progressions, lyric devices, and note patterns that make up all of the "good music" that's ever been recorded and will be able to extrapolate that (given sufficient tuning) into music which the human ear and the human mind will interpret in the same ways as the "good music" you're referencing.

    You will hit full sentience way before you get something that can create art that humans will like.

    Just to give you some context about which would happen first in AI development. Art is the final final final frontier.

  • JengoJengo Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    I came in here thinking the thread's title was "Presenting Kima! Your AI pornstar" Needless to say, I am disappointed.

    3DS FC: 1977-1274-3558 Pokemon X ingame name: S3xy Vexy
  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Virtual idols, you say? Hatsune Miku has several CDs, a manga series, action figures, even her own sponsored Super GT circuit car, and she's a singing synthesizer program you can buy on the shelves in Japan.

    optimusighsig.png
    Gamertag: PrimusD | Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
  • Centipede DamascusCentipede Damascus ha ha just kidding I'm Frog ManRegistered User regular
    edited April 2009
    No AI program could create the Protomen. Your argument is invalid.

  • Rhesus PositiveRhesus Positive Damn these electric sex pants! Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Anybody else think this was an American Idol thread?

    Turns out it's all about artificial pop stars and manufactured music with no soul.

    Wait...

    Another successful post, thanks to the power of Spacestar Ordering™!
  • EmanonEmanon __BANNED USERS
    edited April 2009
    WMain00 wrote: »
    Good point, i forgot that Macross Plus came up with the same idea as well.

    Great soundtrack too, I have both CDs!

    Treats Animals Right!
  • mensch-o-maticmensch-o-matic Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    Virtual idols, you say? Hatsune Miku has several CDs, a manga series, action figures, even her own sponsored Super GT circuit car, and she's a singing synthesizer program you can buy on the shelves in Japan.

    Was just about to bring this up. Miku (and the other voice synthesizers in the 'vocaloid' series) is popular as all hell in Japan without even any real AI. Why create a fully intelligent, sentient musical robot when you can let user-created content reign? Just add a pretty face to a voice synthesizer and Voila:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMZNKeb61Gk

  • MrMonroeMrMonroe Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    ok wait

    You've accepted the eventuality of heuristic artificial intelligences, and you're worried about the music industry?

  • CristoCristo Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    So basically it's like S1m0ne?

    Unlucky wrote: »
    So, after having read all of his stuff, Pony's officially my hero now. I wish I could be that callous towards humanity.
  • necroSYSnecroSYS Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited April 2009
    Aldo wrote: »
    JebusUD wrote: »
    Cervetus wrote: »
    If some pop singer were to stay sober and polite throughout their career they would have a short career.

    What about Justin Timberlake?

    Cute kid, sexy videoclips, good producer, works together with artists who are also popular and good looking.

    Please explain which of these wouldn't be possible with an AI popstar.

    There's no point in you getting both of yourselves all worked up and ready to chart the undiscovered country, then having her flush crimson red, run to the bathroom, and spend twenty minutes straining and grunting and stressing out because you're all ready to deliver your package but there's a three inch thick Sunday paper clogging up the mail slot.
  • AldoAldo Hippo Hooray the swamp, always the swampRegistered User regular
    edited April 2009
    necroSYS wrote: »
    Aldo wrote: »
    JebusUD wrote: »
    Cervetus wrote: »
    If some pop singer were to stay sober and polite throughout their career they would have a short career.

    What about Justin Timberlake?

    Cute kid, sexy videoclips, good producer, works together with artists who are also popular and good looking.

    Please explain which of these wouldn't be possible with an AI popstar.

    Cute and sexy. When was the last time you got the hots for a robot?

    Elendil wrote: »
    said Aldo hazily, before clop-clop-clopping out of the room
  • necroSYSnecroSYS Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited April 2009
    Please, with the amount of airbrushing and post-processing that goes on with most pop-star photos, you really think there's that much difference any more?

    There's no point in you getting both of yourselves all worked up and ready to chart the undiscovered country, then having her flush crimson red, run to the bathroom, and spend twenty minutes straining and grunting and stressing out because you're all ready to deliver your package but there's a three inch thick Sunday paper clogging up the mail slot.
  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Aldo wrote: »
    necroSYS wrote: »
    Aldo wrote: »
    JebusUD wrote: »
    Cervetus wrote: »
    If some pop singer were to stay sober and polite throughout their career they would have a short career.

    What about Justin Timberlake?

    Cute kid, sexy videoclips, good producer, works together with artists who are also popular and good looking.

    Please explain which of these wouldn't be possible with an AI popstar.

    Cute and sexy. When was the last time you got the hots for a robot?

    Robot, or digitally-generated image? After all, a physical presence isn't required. The thing doesn't have to lift boxes, after all.

    And the way things are going with digital production, I wouldn't surprised if this is more than feasible in a few years.

    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
  • Premier kakosPremier kakos Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited April 2009
    Aldo wrote: »
    necroSYS wrote: »
    Aldo wrote: »
    JebusUD wrote: »
    Cervetus wrote: »
    If some pop singer were to stay sober and polite throughout their career they would have a short career.

    What about Justin Timberlake?

    Cute kid, sexy videoclips, good producer, works together with artists who are also popular and good looking.

    Please explain which of these wouldn't be possible with an AI popstar.

    Cute and sexy. When was the last time you got the hots for a robot?

    Today.

    1209070627_Cortana_mini.jpg

    SuperKawaiiWillSig.jpg
  • TubularLuggageTubularLuggage Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Could pop music be done by AI? Years from now, maybe.
    It would be limited to pop music though. Now, that's a very profitable market, so it's not much of a downside to those who are just looking to make money. Sure, it would be a soulless, devoid experience, but today's pop music is pretty much like that anyway.

    Other music couldn't be handled that way though. Many styles outside of pop music still need to actually have some soul to them for people to accept it, whether it's metal, classical, jazz, etc. Plus, part of what makes it enjoyable is the human element of it. If you have someone playing an amazing guitar solo, part of the enjoyment comes from knowing a person worked hard developing the skill to play it, and was able to put the emotion into it. A machine playing the same solo isn't impressive. The same goes for any other instrument, and for vocals. A human hitting A5 is incredible; a computer doing so isn't.
    There's also the emotion of the artist performing that you get with genuine music, that you couldn't get with a machine. Whether it's seeing the artist genuinely enjoying themselves while playing, or seeing them truly express the emotion of the song, you need an actual person doing it.
    Crowd interaction is also pretty important outside of pop music. You need people for good crowd interaction.

    tl;dr
    AI could work for pop music where people just want to go and watch essentially a pre-rendered performance, but won't work for other genres.

  • Pat_McRochPat_McRoch Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    I was reading through the wiki summary and:

    "Fourteen year old Chia Pet McKenzie is chosen by the group to go to Tokyo" huh? I suppose if I read the book it would make sense.

  • necroSYSnecroSYS Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited April 2009
    Pat_McRoch wrote: »
    I was reading through the wiki summary and:

    "Fourteen year old Chia Pet McKenzie is chosen by the group to go to Tokyo" huh? I suppose if I read the book it would make sense.

    Yep.

    And I still want a Sandbenders laptop.

    There's no point in you getting both of yourselves all worked up and ready to chart the undiscovered country, then having her flush crimson red, run to the bathroom, and spend twenty minutes straining and grunting and stressing out because you're all ready to deliver your package but there's a three inch thick Sunday paper clogging up the mail slot.
  • necroSYSnecroSYS Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited April 2009
    Could pop music be done by AI? Years from now, maybe.
    It would be limited to pop music though. Now, that's a very profitable market, so it's not much of a downside to those who are just looking to make money. Sure, it would be a soulless, devoid experience, but today's pop music is pretty much like that anyway.

    Other music couldn't be handled that way though. Many styles outside of pop music still need to actually have some soul to them for people to accept it, whether it's metal, classical, jazz, etc. Plus, part of what makes it enjoyable is the human element of it. If you have someone playing an amazing guitar solo, part of the enjoyment comes from knowing a person worked hard developing the skill to play it, and was able to put the emotion into it. A machine playing the same solo isn't impressive. The same goes for any other instrument, and for vocals. A human hitting A5 is incredible; a computer doing so isn't.
    There's also the emotion of the artist performing that you get with genuine music, that you couldn't get with a machine. Whether it's seeing the artist genuinely enjoying themselves while playing, or seeing them truly express the emotion of the song, you need an actual person doing it.
    Crowd interaction is also pretty important outside of pop music. You need people for good crowd interaction.

    tl;dr
    AI could work for pop music where people just want to go and watch essentially a pre-rendered performance, but won't work for other genres.

    I think you're really getting on a musical high horse here. I think, if an AI is capable of generating pop music, it's capable of generating "classical" music, jazz music, and a lot of others.

    Now, you're absolutely right that it wouldn't be that impressive in seeing a performance of some of those genres of music, because of the perfect nature of mechanical ability. In the case of AI-created music, the amazing thing is the composition itself.

    There's no point in you getting both of yourselves all worked up and ready to chart the undiscovered country, then having her flush crimson red, run to the bathroom, and spend twenty minutes straining and grunting and stressing out because you're all ready to deliver your package but there's a three inch thick Sunday paper clogging up the mail slot.
  • LawndartLawndart Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    necroSYS wrote: »
    Please, with the amount of airbrushing and post-processing that goes on with most pop-star photos, you really think there's that much difference any more?

    This. It's much easier and cheaper for a producer to simply hire an actual human being to be the "pop star" than to invest in creating some CGI pop star.

    There are already more than enough digital studio tricks to turn a mediocre singer into a pop singer (and vocals that sound blatantly synthetic are become more accepted as well), lip-synching has become more and more acceptable during live performances, and nobody really expects modern pop stars to write or compose their own songs.

    Someone needs to give Milli Vanilli their Grammy back.

  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Lawndart wrote: »
    necroSYS wrote: »
    Please, with the amount of airbrushing and post-processing that goes on with most pop-star photos, you really think there's that much difference any more?

    This. It's much easier and cheaper for a producer to simply hire an actual human being to be the "pop star" than to invest in creating some CGI pop star.

    It's not quite the same thing, but there are "virtual" musical artists like the Gorillaz or Lumi of Genki Rockets, who aren't real people but are portrayed musically by actual people, while all their appearances in the multimedia are manufactured.

    optimusighsig.png
    Gamertag: PrimusD | Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
  • joshua1joshua1 Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    That miku video above is terrible. She doesn't even open her mouth to sing.

  • Hockey JohnstonHockey Johnston Registered User
    edited April 2009
    Tubular - so pop music doesn't rely heavily on human interaction and charm while technically sophisticated music does?

    Weird!

    For what it's worth, I think arguing that 'degree of difficulty associated with performance' is a pretty empty way of juding music. Lots of stuff is hard as hell to perform, but that's quite different from it being good.

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