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Girlfriend having guy friend issues ... ?

LeggraphicsLeggraphics Registered User
edited May 2009 in Help / Advice Forum
Hey guys and girls.

I dont normally need help with this stuff but I am really struggling at this point....

To put it bluntly... I used to not have issues finding girls and I in the past have had serious relationship issues.. Commitment issues as it will...

I have been going out with this girl for 4 months. Seeing her for like 8 months now and I know she has ONLY guy friends.. No girls as friends but she goes on about how her guy friends always squeeze her bottom and stuff and it really makes me worry... anyway... there are a few issues to the relationship like she does some drugs and I dont like it at all and she gets drunk every weekend and I am old enough to be passed that area of my life..

Point being is I trust her but she goes out and gets smashed with all of her male friends to which I have never met any of them... Every weekend she gets paralytic with them and tells me stories of say this weekend her friend she goes out clubbing with tried to hookup (kiss her) and she said no.. i have a bf and then he kept trying so she got into a taxi and left. Last weekend the taxi driver put his hand on her crotch and was trying to get with her..

This kind of shit really concerns me... I mean.. This stuff happened last night with her male friend but every 30 minutes pretty much she was messaging me while drunk saying 'i like you SOOO much'

arhhghh I know Im soo F*Ked up about the issue. I've told her and she said.. its ok i would be jealous to if you hung around with girls..

What am I spost to do about it all????

Tomorrow I plan on asking her if i can meet these male friends.. She keeps on telling me since she started going out with me all her friends seem a little pissed at her and have started to test her. She tells me I wont like going out with them because they will try to fire me up by coming onto her and stuff infront of me.

The issue I have is in the past I have just got ridden of a girl at the first sign of trouble.. This one Im trying to hold onto because I think she is the only keeper I have ever met... yet most nights Im pretty much worried out of my head as to what she is up to.. for instance tonight she went over to a mates (guys) house to watch movies with..

Just to add one more thing... she doesnt invite me out with her friends... her excuse for that is she doesnt ask me out because she doesnt want to get drunk infront of me because she doesnt want to make a fool of herself..

Advice? what do I do? I feel the need to get rid of her and find someone that wants me to be more of their life but I know when it comes to this stuff I always ditch the towel to early.. I need to know If in this case Im being immature and just cant cope with my shit or I should get rid of her...

Leggraphics on
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Posts

  • Jmac71Jmac71 Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    At this point, if she isn't willing to let you meet them, or at least drinking all the time with them, you should probably move on. It seems like she likes the attention of this friend. Why else would she keep going out with people who constantly disrespect her ( and you and your relationship).

  • VThornheartVThornheart Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    It sounds to me that you two are at very different phases of your lives. The drugs/drinking/partying is one thing that you know of and you don't like/feel that you're past. Maybe you should consider whether you are in too different of a position in your life from her to be with her.

    Someone's bound to bring up the point that "if you think she's messing around behind your back, it's already a problem whether it's happening or not." Which is true, but I think there's another deeper issue here, that is entirely aside from any possibility of anything happening between her and her guy friends and any trust issues you or her may have with that. It sounds to me like you should be asking whether this is the person you really want to be with given her current interests and activities versus your own.

    Also, you might want to be asking yourself what qualifies as a "keeper" in your mind if you're worried about whether she's being faithful to you, and you dislike the activites she engages in (drinking all the time and doing drugs). Those seem like some pretty serious and potentially deep clashes... so what exactly makes her a "keeper"?

    EDIT: If you want my honest opinion given what you've been saying, she sounds to me like she's a girl that never grew up. She sounds like a lot of high school drama and irresponsibility. Just my personal analysis given what you've revealed about her behavior.

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  • starmanbrandstarmanbrand Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    She's a party skeezer. Step away.

    She wants emotional attention from you, and she wants "omg sup baby you so fine" attention from her guy friends. If she respected you or the relationship, she would put her foot down instead of "Oh hey lets go get drunk next weekend." Also, meeting the guys will probably not help. They will not suddenly be like "Man, Leg, you are the coolest I'm sorry I ever even tried for the girl."

    Should I assume that you are not bothered by her and her friends lack of respect? If so, you just need to decide if this is the type of relationship you want. If you start going partying with her it may mean that she will recieve less attention from other guys. This might not work for her. So things may be difficult or impossible to change.

    I think you're trying too hard to picture this girl as a keeper instead of accepting she is a disrespectful skeez.

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  • SpawnbrokerSpawnbroker Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    So, your girlfriend goes out and gets drunk a lot at parties. Okay, fair enough. She hangs out exclusively with guys, who she gets drunk with. Getting a little sketchy here. She refuses to let you come to these parties where she gets shitfaced with lots of guys that are obviously attracted to her and are trying to get in her pants?

    There are two possible explanations here.

    1) Your girlfriend likes attention. Like, REALLY likes attention. To the point where she hangs out exclusively with guys so she will get hit on all the time, and then proceeds to tell you about it so she can get even more attention. See where I'm going with this? She's a drama queen. Even if she isn't a drama queen, she very likely does things at these parties that she either doesn't remember, or doesn't want you knowing about. Option 1 is not healthy for a relationship.

    2) Your girlfriend is naive and believes that none of these guys really want in her pants. This is the more unlikely explanation, since she has told you herself that guys grab her ass and are actively trying to pull her away from you. Let's roll with it though. She goes out and gets drunk every weekend with these guys and they're all best buds. From what you've been saying, these guys do not sound like morally upstanding individuals. If she doesn't understand that bad things happen to girls that go out and party primarily with guy friends, then you need to find a girlfriend that has some self-respect or a sense of self preservation.

    The only reason I came up with those two explanations is because she goes out and parties every weekend and you're not allowed to come. Big flashing neon warning sign right there. The fact that she does it with guys that are constantly trying to get in her pants is even worse.

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  • SimpsoniaSimpsonia Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Well she may not be telling the entire truth. Believe it or not a lot of women lie as part of tests/games whatever. She could be testing your commitment or jealousness by telling you about all this goings on in the hope that you will act out in some manner. Like seriously a cabby trying to put his hand on her crotch, how the fuck does that even happen, there's almost always a huge divider in between the driver and passenger. That story I don't buy.

    My advice is make absolute sure that you go out with her and her friends. See what it is really like. If the guys give you shit, dish it right back. One of the reasons these guys most likely don't respect you as her BF is because they've never met you. If she doesn't want to let you go out with her cause she is afraid of acting like a drunken fool just counter with how can you date someone while only knowing one facet of them, you gotta see the whole picture or some BS like that.

    Bottom line, you can't do anything until you meet them and see what a few typical nights out are like. If you dump her without doing that you're always gonna have a seed of doubt.

  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Yeah I was going to say that the taxi driver thing doesn't even sound realistic to me.

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  • rfaliasrfalias Registered User
    edited May 2009
    Do you play grabass with all of your female friends?
    I'd be willing to imagine there is a little more involved at these parties with all her guy friends.

    Drugs, Alcohol... Only one thing missing.

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  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Drez wrote: »
    Yeah I was going to say that the taxi driver thing doesn't even sound realistic to me.
    Yeah, I'm with Drez. It sounds like she's attention-whoring, and making shit up to get it. She probably doesn't want you to go because you'll see that she's full of shit (which is why you've never met any of these "friends"). Call her bluff.

  • ImprovoloneImprovolone Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    I'm not gonna say that this girl is not capable of being in a committed monogamous relationship, but based on the OP alone I am confident in saying that this relationship will cause you a fuck ton of grief. You don't need that kind of emotional stress in a relationship.
    It sounds like you want her to change, but you can't make her change. Hell, you can't even get her to understand why she needs to change. This very scarily reminds me of my ex, so my advice is to just get out.

    Oh, and keeping you out of her life like she is but constantly reminding you how much she likes you is really manipulative and not a socially normal/healthy/okay thing to do.

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  • CasualCasual flap flap flap wiggle wiggle wiggle Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    The trouble is here as with any thread we are probably seeing less than half the whole picture here however with the information you have given us this is my conclusion; any one of the issues you have raised on its own wouldn't be that big a deal but combined they make a metric fuckton of deal.

    For a start I'm calling BS on the taxi driver story too. It's obviously not impossible that happened but it is highly improbable. After all even if your girlfriend looked like Angelina Jolie why would any taxi driver in his right mind throw away his job/marriage/freedom just to grope the first pretty lady that gets in his cab? At best its a drunken fabrication at worst she's a lying drama queen as others have said.

    So she only has male friends? That's certainly not something you should hold against her it just means she's a tomboy. However the fact they feel her up and try shit with her despite knowing she has a boyfriend is very bad news because it indicates they're scumbags. This means your girlfriend is willingly getting drunk and stoned loosing all her inhibitions around men she knows will take advantage. This brings me neatly to the next big problem.

    She doesn't want you to meet her friends or hang around with her in social situations? Is this not sending off warning lights with massive fucking bells attached? It should be. Given my last point what do you think she is getting up to while you're sitting at home uninvited?

    Then in the mix is the fact you don't trust her. Quite right too. Given her incredibly selfish/suspicious behaviour I wouldn't either, she's given you absolutely no reason to trust her.

    This is the point where you sit her down and have a make or break conversation with her. You need to tell her that the status quo is NOT good enough. Tell her you want to meet her friends as her boyfriend asking to meet the people she spends the other half of her time with is not a big ask.

    It's already been said that this girl does not sound like the keeper you say she is. Put your heart aside for now and let your head decide if you want to stick around for the rest of what may very well be a complete train wreck.

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  • NappuccinoNappuccino Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    I agree with just about everything said here... regardless if what she is saying is true, she doesn't sound like she's in a good place to have a relationship. The two of you don't have the same mentality about how this relationship should be going and, like Improvolone said, I don't think you'll be able to change her unless she wants to change. Sadly, you can't make someone want anything, that will have to come from her own decision.

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  • W2W2 Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Simpsonia wrote: »
    Well she may not be telling the entire truth. Believe it or not a lot of women lie as part of tests/games whatever. She could be testing your commitment or jealousness by telling you about all this goings on in the hope that you will act out in some manner. Like seriously a cabby trying to put his hand on her crotch, how the fuck does that even happen, there's almost always a huge divider in between the driver and passenger. That story I don't buy.

    In my experience, not in an Australian (I'm in Victoria, OP is from South Australia so it may actually vary) taxi, there are usually no dividers and more often than not a passenger will sit in the front seat. I've had some dodgy cab drivers in the past and I've heard similar anecdotes here and there (from friends who catch a lot more cabs than I do) so it's not totally implausible.

    That said it's one problem out of what sounds like a whole plethora of issues, so the rest of the advice given so far is still absolutely valid.

  • ImprovoloneImprovolone Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Nappuccino wrote: »
    I agree with just about everything said here... regardless if what she is saying is true, she doesn't sound like she's in a good place to have a relationship. The two of you don't have the same mentality about how this relationship should be going and, like Improvolone said, I don't think you'll be able to change her unless she wants to change. Sadly, you can't make someone want anything, that will have to come from her own decision.

    And unfortunately the only way that usually happens is for them to experience why their life style is so horrible. And only sometimes does that work.

    This is just really weird for me, it sounds like I could have made this thread a couple years ago.

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  • VThornheartVThornheart Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Drez wrote: »
    Yeah I was going to say that the taxi driver thing doesn't even sound realistic to me.
    Yeah, I'm with Drez. It sounds like she's attention-whoring, and making shit up to get it. She probably doesn't want you to go because you'll see that she's full of shit (which is why you've never met any of these "friends"). Call her bluff.

    But why even call her bluff?

    I mean... this is a "danger Will Robinson" scenario if ever I've heard one. Don't even bother calling her out on it, just step away and don't look back...

    ... and while you're doing so, examine why you thought she was a "keeper" to begin with. I'm serious.

    I'm not trying to insult you or anything: I've had the same problem before myself. Sometimes we subconsciously get our wires crossed on what properties in members of the opposite sex equate to the ability to hold a long-term relationship. If you can pull to the surface what you were thinking she had that made her someone worthy of a long-term relationship, you can begin to examine whether those were rational reasons or whether you're looking for exactly the WRONG kind of person for a long-term relationship.

    I get the feeling that it's probably the latter... but the good news is that realizing it consciously is the first step toward changing your mindset.

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  • underdonkunderdonk __BANNED USERS
    edited May 2009
    Wow. I sounds like you could be dating my ex-wife. Seriously. There's a reason she's my ex-wife. Obviously every situation is different, but I can only say based on my experience with a very similar woman, this will only lead to bad things. It did in my case, after she cheated on me with one of these "guy friends" that are "just friends". But really, they are, nothing ever happens! Save yourself the trouble, man, there are plenty of awesome women out there who you can establish a relationship with where you will not have to deal with these issues. It's just not worth dating (or marrying someone) who's "damaged goods".

    Also...
    And unfortunately the only way that usually happens is for them to experience why their life style is so horrible. And only sometimes does that work.

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  • Seattle ThreadSeattle Thread The fuck am I looking atRegistered User regular
    edited May 2009
    She isn't ready to be in a relationship. End it, offer to be there for her once she is, but don't wait around for her.


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  • admanbadmanb the bored genie Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Simpsonia wrote: »
    Well she may not be telling the entire truth. Believe it or not a lot of women lie as part of tests/games whatever. She could be testing your commitment or jealousness by telling you about all this goings on in the hope that you will act out in some manner. Like seriously a cabby trying to put his hand on her crotch, how the fuck does that even happen, there's almost always a huge divider in between the driver and passenger. That story I don't buy.

    This would be better how? Either way she needs to do a lot of growing up before she is ready for an adult relationship.

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  • RocketSauceRocketSauce Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Kudos to those guys who's girlfriends only hang out with guys who get drunk with her, hit on her, grab her ass, and try and kiss her. Because I certainly couldn't put up with that shit.

  • PopicesPopices Registered User
    edited May 2009
    Similar to what everyone else is saying....she is likely crazy about the amount of attention that she gets from other guys in a physical way, and emotional attention you give her from a relationship standpoint. She is getting the best of both worlds and making you feel like shit in the process. This is exactly what happened with my ex-girlfriend, except the start of the relationship was nice and peachy and this is something that she developed into, and I couldn't wrap my head around it.

    Honestly, she is at a different place in her life than you right now and looks like she wants to have fun and mess around instead of settle down and have a meaningful relationship (which is what you seem to be after). But yeah, if you try to point out what she is doing and why it makes you uncomfortable she will likely say you have trust issues, make you feel bad, etc.....you haven't been in the relationship long enough to have to tolerate this shady behavior and try to accept it, in my opinion. Turns out a lot of the time the people who are fun to hang out around are not relationship material whatsoever. It's not worth the mental anguish that it is [obviously] causing you (else you wouldn't have made this thread)

  • mooshoeporkmooshoepork Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Drez wrote: »
    Yeah I was going to say that the taxi driver thing doesn't even sound realistic to me.
    Yeah, I'm with Drez. It sounds like she's attention-whoring, and making shit up to get it. She probably doesn't want you to go because you'll see that she's full of shit (which is why you've never met any of these "friends"). Call her bluff.

    I came in the thread specifically to say this.

  • LeggraphicsLeggraphics Registered User
    edited May 2009
    yerr thanks guys and gals..

    I have to say I used to treat girls like shit without knowing it.. Then I kind of grew up and decided I couldnt have a girlfriend for 2 years just to avoid doing it...and this is the first I kind of really liked.

    For any other I havn't bothered to even confront a girl about anything.. I would just move on but I have confronted her about the drugs before and she has cut back a huge amount and only has them once every like 3 months.

    I have to agree with everything that has been said and I have indeed already gone through those possibilities in my mind I just needed the reassurance to be honest. Im really good at reading people through eyes and body language and all of my mates both female and male get me to check out there partners and give them a time. The time being how long do I think they will last and usually it is pritty accurate. I tend to like girls who have allot of guy friends as they are easier to hang around with. Same reason she has only guy friends because she doesn't get along with girls. All of her friends were kind of shocked that she would ever have a boyfriend because she just is seen as one of the guys..

    But..... when your emotionally involved it turns into a train wreck

    What I plan on doing is asking her to meet the friends. Apparently most are allot older than her and are her brothers friends as well so they 'look after her' but I Will be able to read them and how they react anyway so I can judge the deal from there.

    I also plan on giving her a little less attention.. making her wonder whats going on and to pull her back into my world for a while making her start to make more of an effort.

    Last but not least. The reason I put up with most of this is I have been through it... I am 22 and she is 19 but got over this stage quicker than I would of expected (not the drugs, just the alcohol and clubbing till dawn) and she has allot of good areas I havnt discussed obviously. I know you guys are right and I expect her to change.. and I get the impression she is starting to the more attached she becomes to me... I am known by my friends as having a short relationship span and the first sign of trouble I dump them. I really want to avoid a rash decision and I will give it another week. If I'm left with a stressful weekend next week I know life will be allot better without her.

    Once again cheers for the replies

  • ImprovoloneImprovolone Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Just don't get caught up in playing your own games.

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  • LeggraphicsLeggraphics Registered User
    edited May 2009
    Just don't get caught up in playing your own games.

    Totally agree. Yet I am someone who doesn't trust anyone.. (i have serious issues lol) isnt life a game anyway?

  • NappuccinoNappuccino Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    life isn't a game. It doesn't abide by set rules or even approximate rules. Every person is different and so is every situation. You just need to adapt or realize the situation isn't what you want to deal with and move on.

    There's nothing wrong with trying to change your habits, but I'm not sure if this is the girl to do it. Her problems sound more severe than your average relationship problems. That said, talk to her and see if things change.

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  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    y
    Last but not least. The reason I put up with most of this is I have been through it... I am 22 and she is 19 but got over this stage quicker than I would of expected (not the drugs, just the alcohol and clubbing till dawn) and she has allot of good areas I havnt discussed obviously. I know you guys are right and I expect her to change.. and I get the impression she is starting to the more attached she becomes to me... I am known by my friends as having a short relationship span and the first sign of trouble I dump them. I really want to avoid a rash decision and I will give it another week. If I'm left with a stressful weekend next week I know life will be allot better without her.

    At your age, there is no problem with fast breakups when it is clear it is not working out. It's a learning experience.

    Also, don't expect her to change... she probably will calm down as she gets older, but can you wait 10 years?

    By the way, the taxi driver harassing her is totally plausible...there are a lot of taxi drivers that will harass (or worse!) a drunken young woman on her own. Maybe she needs to start sharing taxis back.

  • VThornheartVThornheart Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    And will she still even have whatever qualities you DO see in her after she calms down? I'm still of the theory that, most likely, the qualities that you find attractive in her and the "counterqualities" that make her a bad potential mate are probably overlapping more than you realize.

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  • ShogunShogun Hair long; money long; me and broke wizards we don't get along Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Have you considered finding someone more age appropriate? If you're past the stage of getting drunk with friends at parties on the weekend you are WAY past the point of dealing with nonsense from little girls like this.

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  • SamSam Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    if you knew a guy that had only female friends, would you consider that normal?

    yeah, she's not a keeper.

  • LeggraphicsLeggraphics Registered User
    edited May 2009
    Sam wrote: »
    if you knew a guy that had only female friends, would you consider that normal?

    I dont think its normal either way but most girls I seem to get closed to usually only really have male friends because they dont get along with other girls. I dont think its a reason to get rid of someone as that seems to be a trait I tend to pick...

    Badger- Thanks for making my relationship issues sound normal. It will help me sleep tonight lol :)

    Shogun- I went out with a girl 3 years older than me for a while and it had just as many problems lol... just differnt problems I guess.

    Im off to see her now. Unfortunately im to hungover and tired to really bring this stuff up with her tonight... I went out with 7 of my female friends lastnight to get away from it all.. so intimidating being the only guy in a group like that but I find it fun.

    I noticed that when I told lisa who i went out with more stories came up about her and guys. I think you guys might be right in that she feels intimidated and is talking it up a little. Ill see how things go this week and tackle it all a different way.

  • KazakaKazaka Registered User
    edited May 2009
    www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/irony

    Can you really be on her about it? You "go out" and with opposite sex company, no less.

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  • CristoCristo Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Not quite the same, I don't think. He doesn't ONLY have female friends, he just went out with some of his friends that happened to be girls. Plus, it might have been a test to see how his girlfriend would react and to see if it was what was predicted here.

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  • SamSam Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    I dont think its normal either way but most girls I seem to get closed to usually only really have male friends because they dont get along with other girls. I dont think its a reason to get rid of someone as that seems to be a trait I tend to pick...

    it's a sign that something is wrong that they're thriving on a certain kind of non platonic interaction even if it never goes past a hint in the air. I know girls who become "one of the guys" when they hang out with their guy friends and in those situations it actually is platonic, and guess what, those girls have girlfriends too.

    If a straight person exclusively associates with the opposite sex, they have an overbearing need for a certain kind of attention and they prize that to an excessive degree. There may be exceptions, sure, there's exceptions to everything but this isn't one of them seeing as you've indicated that these guys do in fact hit on her and touch her. She's not one of the guys that happens to be a girl, she's grinding attention points.

    What more is there you need to know about this person to make an informed decision?

  • LeitnerLeitner Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Sam wrote: »
    if you knew a guy that had only female friends, would you consider that normal?

    yeah, she's not a keeper.

    Yes? Like is this a serious question?

  • ilmmadilmmad Registered User
    edited May 2009
    Sam wrote: »
    if you knew a guy that had only female friends, would you consider that normal?

    yeah, she's not a keeper.

    Eh, I don't think that is a good rationale. My girlfriend has mostly male friends, because she doesn't like dealing with the drama most girls bring with them. Sure, it isn't "normal" by definition, but it in no way makes her a bad girlfriend, especially considering how level-headed and drama-free she is.

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  • CrashtardCrashtard Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Im off to see her now. Unfortunately im to hungover and tired to really bring this stuff up with her tonight... I went out with 7 of my female friends lastnight to get away from it all.. so intimidating being the only guy in a group like that but I find it fun.

    Listen to what you just said: I went out last night with other women to get away from all the grief that my girlfriend is causing me. YOU said that. If that's the state of your relationship, end it now and walk away.
    I also plan on giving her a little less attention.. making her wonder whats going on and to pull her back into my world for a while making her start to make more of an effort.

    DO NOT DO THIS. If this is the kind of effort that's required to get her to give a shit about your relationship, it's not worth saving. I know you like her, but this can only get worse.

    I pinky swear that we will not screw you.

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  • KalTorakKalTorak Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Ask to meet her friends, but don't start playing your own mind games.

    It soudns like you guys are at two different maturity levels - the best way to test this is to just be honest and talk about your concerns. If things don't get better, there's your answer.

  • underdonkunderdonk __BANNED USERS
    edited May 2009
    Nappuccino wrote: »
    life isn't a game. It doesn't abide by set rules or even approximate rules.

    You're assuming that every game has rules and/or a win condition. Life is very much a game.

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  • ImprovoloneImprovolone Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    underdonk wrote: »
    Nappuccino wrote: »
    life isn't a game. It doesn't abide by set rules or even approximate rules.

    You're assuming that every game has rules and/or a win condition. Life is very much a game.

    There is absolutely a skill to interpersonal skills and you wind up seeing everything like a game, but that would really complicate his situation. Even though you can, you shouldn't always be "playing".

    Voice actor for hire. My time is free if your project is!
  • NappuccinoNappuccino Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    underdonk wrote: »
    Nappuccino wrote: »
    life isn't a game. It doesn't abide by set rules or even approximate rules.

    You're assuming that every game has rules and/or a win condition. Life is very much a game.

    Alright then. Life is like Calvin Ball. No matter what, you always lose.

    Seriously, if you treat life as just a game you won't be going places for long.

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    Spoiler:
  • underdonkunderdonk __BANNED USERS
    edited May 2009
    Nappuccino wrote: »
    Alright then. Life is like Calvin Ball. No matter what, you always lose.

    No, losing implies the capacity to win. I suggest looking at the definition of game as a verb.

    Back in the day, bucko, we just had an A and a B button... and we liked it.
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