Assuming you mean in CD form I found it in a Fry's Electronics once. I really should have picked it up since I can't seem to find a reasonably priced copy on Amazon or Ebay
Ever17 is fucking amazing, btw. The way it kept feeding you bits and pieces of the mystery, and key plot details, felt a lot like the first time I watched Higurashi - completely awesome.
If you liked Higurashi, you should look into Umineko. It's made by the same guy who did the Higurashi VN, has no sex content to my knowledge, and the first few chapters have been translated.
Assuming you mean in CD form I found it in a Fry's Electronics once. I really should have picked it up since I can't seem to find a reasonably priced copy on Amazon or Ebay
I picked my copy up from Hirameki when they had their visual novel blowout, $1-5 dollars per game.
I am at work and so did not read any of the links.
But YES. I am 100% for any form of art that takes advantage of the Internet medium, which is completely different from the book medium. Hyperlinks should revolutionize the way we write fiction and graphic novels. If not full-balls choose your own adventures, hyperlinks can allow you to do other things with literature that you can't do with books. In the same way, books let you do things with writing that you couldn't do with scrolls.
I am working on a website novel right now, actually. I'm totally going to be internet-famous someday.
I am at work and so did not read any of the links.
But YES. I am 100% for any form of art that takes advantage of the Internet medium, which is completely different from the book medium. Hyperlinks should revolutionize the way we write fiction and graphic novels. If not full-balls choose your own adventures, hyperlinks can allow you to do other things with literature that you can't do with books. In the same way, books let you do things with writing that you couldn't do with scrolls.
I am working on a website novel right now, actually. I'm totally going to be internet-famous someday.
There ARE online choose-your-own-adventure stories.
For starters, I don't like reading in a digital format for an extended period.
Beyond that, the best stories have themes embedded in them beyond just the simple plot. It would be very difficult to have this sort of thing in a story where you can't be sure what's going to happen. So it seems like VNs would be, by necessity, very shallow, exclusively plot-driven affairs. Character development beyond the superficial sort would also be difficult to pull off, because the characters would have to be allowed to grow in different ways depending on the actions of the player/reader. Alternately, everything is handled generically and the input has little effect on anything at all.
The best books are too complicated to effectively realize in this format. And the best games require more interaction than simply choosing whether to go out on a date with the cute blonde chick or the cute brunette chick. VNs seem like they combine two media while necessarily leaving out the strengths of both.
I suppose it could be done well, but who would do it? The best writers would rather dedicate themselves to more traditional, linear storytelling media, where they can actually incorporate all the elements that VNs can't possess. The folks most adept at interactive media would probably rather make real games, where they can more effectively draw in the player with real, concrete decisions and the corresponding immersion.
I think VNs, at best, could achieve a status of moderately entertaining diversions. They would be hard-pressed to achieve anything really good, and fundamentally incapable of achieving greatness.
ElJeffe on
I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
The Higurashi/Umineko series has no porn, and they are very, VERY good mystery series. With lots of great character development, and great music and sound. Making it a very good experience all in all.
That said, "the player", you, don't have any actual choices to choose when reading the story. You can switch between reading the novel, and reading a character page (because the cast gets huge), but besides that, there isn't really any interaction.
So yeah, the series isn't really a "choose your own adventure" tale, but it's still highly entertaining.
(and yes, - Umineko has translation patches for the first 3 games (chapters) and part of the fourth with more translations on the way . The Higurashi VN has the first game translated, with the second on the way.)
For starters, I don't like reading in a digital format for an extended period.
Beyond that, the best stories have themes embedded in them beyond just the simple plot. It would be very difficult to have this sort of thing in a story where you can't be sure what's going to happen. So it seems like VNs would be, by necessity, very shallow, exclusively plot-driven affairs. Character development beyond the superficial sort would also be difficult to pull off, because the characters would have to be allowed to grow in different ways depending on the actions of the player/reader. Alternately, everything is handled generically and the input has little effect on anything at all.
The best books are too complicated to effectively realize in this format. And the best games require more interaction than simply choosing whether to go out on a date with the cute blonde chick or the cute brunette chick. VNs seem like they combine two media while necessarily leaving out the strengths of both.
I suppose it could be done well, but who would do it? The best writers would rather dedicate themselves to more traditional, linear storytelling media, where they can actually incorporate all the elements that VNs can't possess. The folks most adept at interactive media would probably rather make real games, where they can more effectively draw in the player with real, concrete decisions and the corresponding immersion.
I think VNs, at best, could achieve a status of moderately entertaining diversions. They would be hard-pressed to achieve anything really good, and fundamentally incapable of achieving greatness.
Ehh... You can tell a single story from a lot of different vantage points, and have a fair amount of development and depth in the characters that represent each view. It's not a particularly original idea as it's been done in pretty much every other form of media. It can be done very well and can speak to many different aspects of how people view themselves and the world.
I think VN would lend themselves well to that mode of story telling. You don't really get to influence the major plot points too much, but you get do determine what parts of the story you see. Which characters are the villains and which are the heros. Obvious possibilities for romance and conflict and whatever.
I think you could tell a very compelling story with a great deal of depth. It wouldn't to seriously hinder a writer, because a lot of it is things they already do. They may not have taken the time to put all the views down in ink, though having a few in a given story is not uncommon, but they've certainly done the mental leg work. Just because a story's omniscience may be limited, it does not mean the author's is, and it's not necessarily too much more work(particularly when you consider works like House of Leaves). It would give the reader a chance to more or less explore the story in a way not really too common in other media.
I think a VN could be really pretty phenomenal, but I don't pay much attention to them because I am fairly certain they've never really got anywhere near there and I don't think that's all too likely to change.
edit: I type ponderously slow. Higurashi sound not unlike what I'm thinking. I really ought to play/read it at some point, as I am somewhat partial to the anime.
So if it's a single story just viewed from different angles, how many times are you really going to want to read about the exact same events? And why not arrange the bits of narration into a single tale told all at once? Relating a certain scene from multiple points of view in sequence isn't exactly unheard of in regular fiction.
You could argue that VNs allow the reader to read a story clear through from multiple viewpoints, and that his opinions on certain events could alter dramatically as each viewpoint gives him new information to consider. Bad guys may suddenly seem like good guys, simple acts may become much more complicated, and so on. Except standard fiction writers can already do this in standard fiction, with the added advantage of people able to structure all these revelations just so, in order to maximize their effect.
Maybe it's just not for me, but I'm still struggling to find a single advantage of VNs that isn't buried beneath a pile of corresponding disadvantages.
ElJeffe on
I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
VNs are no less limited than reading plays really. There are quite a few limitations when things are forced into a somewhat awkward storytelling style that's 90% dialogue, but that certainly doesn't mean a requisite lack of depth. The earlier Key games are rather good at it, although lately they've pushed themselves well beyond that and into straight up proselytizing. For example, One is a pretty in depth look at death and how people remember each other. Fate is your pretty standard coming of age story with the three stories representing idealism, pragmatism, and cynicism.
The medium itself is probably the biggest disadvantage though. Computer screens really aren't a good browsing medium. Not to mention the flow issues and such. *shrug* I certainly lack the will to play them for long periods of time without breaks for actual gameplay or something to do unless they're particularly good. They're like books on tape, with some pretty pictures basically.
So if it's a single story just viewed from different angles, how many times are you really going to want to read about the exact same events? And why not arrange the bits of narration into a single tale told all at once? Relating a certain scene from multiple points of view in sequence isn't exactly unheard of in regular fiction.
That isn't it, exactly.
That guy phrased it really badly.
It's closer to different stories branching from the same start. Depending on the actions the protagonist takes, different results can happen.
Interactive Mediums are interesting because of this. You don't ever really see this sort of thing done in books or TV. The "game" format makes it work, really, because it makes sense that with the player in control he can make different decisions.
For starters, I don't like reading in a digital format for an extended period.
I call bullshit.
You make an average of 18.29 posts per day on here. Assuming it takes an average of 5 minutes to write each of your posts—that's probably quite conservative, as you're pretty long-winded—that means you spend more than an hour and a half writing, per day—in response to other things you've read, many of which you are not even responding to, only on Penny Arcade, which is quite likely one of 8 to 10 tabs you have open on your Firefox, not to mention whatever you actually do for a living that you're interacting with on your computer screen.
Actually, it's not quite the same. Reading on monitors is actually a lot more brain intensive than reading books and crap. There's actually quite a bit of evidence to suggest that it's totally learned behavior though. People learn forward to look at monitors (ie, concentration activity), while they lean back (relaxed) to read books or magazines and such. Totally unconscious behavior, and my personal theory is that it has to do with the level of control you have over the position of the engagement medium, but blah blah blah HCI rambling.
Actually, it's not quite the same. Reading on monitors is actually a lot more brain intensive than reading books and crap. There's actually quite a bit of evidence to suggest that it's totally learned behavior though. People learn forward to look at monitors (ie, concentration activity), while they lean back (relaxed) to read books or magazines and such. Totally unconscious behavior, and my personal theory is that it has to do with the level of control you have over the position of the engagement medium, but blah blah blah HCI rambling.
Hm, I didn't meant to imply it was the same. But how can reading paper be an "unconscious" behavior? Your brain still has to process the information?
I definitely think reading is different on computer screens (and iPhones)—but I think a lot of the problems people have with reading on computers is due more to the format than anything inherent about computer screens. A lot of stuff is either in unwieldy pdfs or long scrolls of html, with either too little or too much white space. On the other hand, people don't seem to have any problem devouring hours' worth of blog text, message board text, or browsing through Wikipedia hyperlinks. I wonder if a lot of that is because such formats provide a sense of interactivity that mimics the physical sensation of turning a page in a book.
For starters, I don't like reading in a digital format for an extended period.
I call bullshit.
You make an average of 18.29 posts per day on here. Assuming it takes an average of 5 minutes to write each of your posts—that's probably quite conservative, as you're pretty long-winded—that means you spend more than an hour and a half writing, per day—in response to other things you've read, many of which you are not even responding to, only on Penny Arcade, which is quite likely one of 8 to 10 tabs you have open on your Firefox, not to mention whatever you actually do for a living that you're interacting with on your computer screen.
I don't consider that "for an extended period", as it doesn't happen for long stretches. I read a few posts, then do something else, read a couple more, post, do something else, and so on. When I do sit there and just read for an hour at a time, my eyes start to bug, and much longer than that gives me a headache. Compared with a book, where I can read for 3-4 hours no sweat.
Also, for some reason, writing doesn't affect me the same way as reading. Which is a good thing, since I'm also a technical writer.
ElJeffe on
I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
I don't consider that "for an extended period", as it doesn't happen for long stretches. I read a few posts, then do something else, read a couple more, post, do something else, and so on. When I do sit there and just read for an hour at a time, my eyes start to bug, and much longer than that gives me a headache. Compared with a book, where I can read for 3-4 hours no sweat.
Also, for some reason, writing doesn't affect me the same way as reading. Which is a good thing, since I'm also a technical writer.
I don't really like reading from a screen for prolonged periods either. I certainly can and it doesn't bug me to a huge degree, but I also still prefer paper.
I don't really like reading from a screen for prolonged periods either. I certainly can and it doesn't bug me to a huge degree, but I also still prefer paper.
However: computers are getting better pretty rapidly.
That's just within a decade. I bet in five years there is a high probability that computer screens will not bother you significantly. Or computer screens may all just be like the Kindle with color. Anyway, my point is that this is an eminently solvable problem and will probably be solved just in time to herald electronic literature, inshwillow.
Anyway, my point is that this is an eminently solvable problem and will probably be solved just in time to herald electronic literature, inshwillow.
I also don't like computer screens because they're not near as comfortable. However, that's why I'm quite interested in devices like the Kindle and am waiting for a relatively cheap color version, at which point I'll probably move over to electronic literature. Though I'll still probably want an actual book every now and again.
In case anyone is still interested after all this time, 4Leaf Studios have announced that Katawa Shoujo will definitely be released some time this year, within the next few months.
I've been playing G-Senjou no Maou recently, at the behest of an /a/ thread. Some good shit. Also much faster than Fate Stay Night and Tsukihime, both of which I loved dearly but were so slow and had the worst H-Scenes.
I also "borrowed" my host uncle's old copy of the Shuffle Limited Edition.
Also while we're on the subject of Japanese shit, anyone want to help me do write-ups of various Gundam series and an article on Gunpla? I got the OK blessing from Irond Will on that thread.
I actually plan to turn my web novels into visual novels as I complete them.
More than the visual aspect, I find that the sound makes all of the difference. Good music and sound effects can turn a mediocre fight scene into something truly memorable and epic. Same for dramatic scenes etc.
edit: Though personally, I prefer fixed scenarios to multiple-choice endeavors. Might try writing one eventually just to see if I can.
Kamar on
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RingoHe/Hima distinct lack of substanceRegistered Userregular
It's possible, but most writers want to tell a more specific story, and will focus their efforts on that, so you won't get a very large number of good writers even considering it.
I would think takyris and all the other people working as writers for companies like Bioware would disagree with this statement.
I've been playing G-Senjou no Maou recently, at the behest of an /a/ thread. Some good shit. Also much faster than Fate Stay Night and Tsukihime, both of which I loved dearly but were so slow and had the worst H-Scenes.
I also "borrowed" my host uncle's old copy of the Shuffle Limited Edition.
I just read this recently. I was quite enjoying the premise of
the protagonist also being the antagonist
. I don't know what you thought about it, but I found
the brother plot twist really fell flat. I almost dropped reading it, but the prison ending was pretty cool.
Posts
If you liked Higurashi, you should look into Umineko. It's made by the same guy who did the Higurashi VN, has no sex content to my knowledge, and the first few chapters have been translated.
Steam: Drokmir
I picked my copy up from Hirameki when they had their visual novel blowout, $1-5 dollars per game.
But... http://hirameki-int.com/
But YES. I am 100% for any form of art that takes advantage of the Internet medium, which is completely different from the book medium. Hyperlinks should revolutionize the way we write fiction and graphic novels. If not full-balls choose your own adventures, hyperlinks can allow you to do other things with literature that you can't do with books. In the same way, books let you do things with writing that you couldn't do with scrolls.
I am working on a website novel right now, actually. I'm totally going to be internet-famous someday.
There ARE online choose-your-own-adventure stories.
Dead Ends: Zombie choose your own adventure:
http://www.visitdeadends.com/index2.html
There's also that Soul Calibur Choose-Your-Own-Weight-Gain story but I'm not linking to that.
For starters, I don't like reading in a digital format for an extended period.
Beyond that, the best stories have themes embedded in them beyond just the simple plot. It would be very difficult to have this sort of thing in a story where you can't be sure what's going to happen. So it seems like VNs would be, by necessity, very shallow, exclusively plot-driven affairs. Character development beyond the superficial sort would also be difficult to pull off, because the characters would have to be allowed to grow in different ways depending on the actions of the player/reader. Alternately, everything is handled generically and the input has little effect on anything at all.
The best books are too complicated to effectively realize in this format. And the best games require more interaction than simply choosing whether to go out on a date with the cute blonde chick or the cute brunette chick. VNs seem like they combine two media while necessarily leaving out the strengths of both.
I suppose it could be done well, but who would do it? The best writers would rather dedicate themselves to more traditional, linear storytelling media, where they can actually incorporate all the elements that VNs can't possess. The folks most adept at interactive media would probably rather make real games, where they can more effectively draw in the player with real, concrete decisions and the corresponding immersion.
I think VNs, at best, could achieve a status of moderately entertaining diversions. They would be hard-pressed to achieve anything really good, and fundamentally incapable of achieving greatness.
That said, "the player", you, don't have any actual choices to choose when reading the story. You can switch between reading the novel, and reading a character page (because the cast gets huge), but besides that, there isn't really any interaction.
So yeah, the series isn't really a "choose your own adventure" tale, but it's still highly entertaining.
(and yes, - Umineko has translation patches for the first 3 games (chapters) and part of the fourth with more translations on the way . The Higurashi VN has the first game translated, with the second on the way.)
Ehh... You can tell a single story from a lot of different vantage points, and have a fair amount of development and depth in the characters that represent each view. It's not a particularly original idea as it's been done in pretty much every other form of media. It can be done very well and can speak to many different aspects of how people view themselves and the world.
I think VN would lend themselves well to that mode of story telling. You don't really get to influence the major plot points too much, but you get do determine what parts of the story you see. Which characters are the villains and which are the heros. Obvious possibilities for romance and conflict and whatever.
I think you could tell a very compelling story with a great deal of depth. It wouldn't to seriously hinder a writer, because a lot of it is things they already do. They may not have taken the time to put all the views down in ink, though having a few in a given story is not uncommon, but they've certainly done the mental leg work. Just because a story's omniscience may be limited, it does not mean the author's is, and it's not necessarily too much more work(particularly when you consider works like House of Leaves). It would give the reader a chance to more or less explore the story in a way not really too common in other media.
I think a VN could be really pretty phenomenal, but I don't pay much attention to them because I am fairly certain they've never really got anywhere near there and I don't think that's all too likely to change.
edit: I type ponderously slow. Higurashi sound not unlike what I'm thinking. I really ought to play/read it at some point, as I am somewhat partial to the anime.
You could argue that VNs allow the reader to read a story clear through from multiple viewpoints, and that his opinions on certain events could alter dramatically as each viewpoint gives him new information to consider. Bad guys may suddenly seem like good guys, simple acts may become much more complicated, and so on. Except standard fiction writers can already do this in standard fiction, with the added advantage of people able to structure all these revelations just so, in order to maximize their effect.
Maybe it's just not for me, but I'm still struggling to find a single advantage of VNs that isn't buried beneath a pile of corresponding disadvantages.
The medium itself is probably the biggest disadvantage though. Computer screens really aren't a good browsing medium. Not to mention the flow issues and such. *shrug* I certainly lack the will to play them for long periods of time without breaks for actual gameplay or something to do unless they're particularly good. They're like books on tape, with some pretty pictures basically.
Well, assuming you understand the language.
That isn't it, exactly.
That guy phrased it really badly.
It's closer to different stories branching from the same start. Depending on the actions the protagonist takes, different results can happen.
Interactive Mediums are interesting because of this. You don't ever really see this sort of thing done in books or TV. The "game" format makes it work, really, because it makes sense that with the player in control he can make different decisions.
You make an average of 18.29 posts per day on here. Assuming it takes an average of 5 minutes to write each of your posts—that's probably quite conservative, as you're pretty long-winded—that means you spend more than an hour and a half writing, per day—in response to other things you've read, many of which you are not even responding to, only on Penny Arcade, which is quite likely one of 8 to 10 tabs you have open on your Firefox, not to mention whatever you actually do for a living that you're interacting with on your computer screen.
I definitely think reading is different on computer screens (and iPhones)—but I think a lot of the problems people have with reading on computers is due more to the format than anything inherent about computer screens. A lot of stuff is either in unwieldy pdfs or long scrolls of html, with either too little or too much white space. On the other hand, people don't seem to have any problem devouring hours' worth of blog text, message board text, or browsing through Wikipedia hyperlinks. I wonder if a lot of that is because such formats provide a sense of interactivity that mimics the physical sensation of turning a page in a book.
I don't consider that "for an extended period", as it doesn't happen for long stretches. I read a few posts, then do something else, read a couple more, post, do something else, and so on. When I do sit there and just read for an hour at a time, my eyes start to bug, and much longer than that gives me a headache. Compared with a book, where I can read for 3-4 hours no sweat.
Also, for some reason, writing doesn't affect me the same way as reading. Which is a good thing, since I'm also a technical writer.
That's just within a decade. I bet in five years there is a high probability that computer screens will not bother you significantly. Or computer screens may all just be like the Kindle with color. Anyway, my point is that this is an eminently solvable problem and will probably be solved just in time to herald electronic literature, inshwillow.
STEAM
I also "borrowed" my host uncle's old copy of the Shuffle Limited Edition.
Also while we're on the subject of Japanese shit, anyone want to help me do write-ups of various Gundam series and an article on Gunpla? I got the OK blessing from Irond Will on that thread.
More than the visual aspect, I find that the sound makes all of the difference. Good music and sound effects can turn a mediocre fight scene into something truly memorable and epic. Same for dramatic scenes etc.
edit: Though personally, I prefer fixed scenarios to multiple-choice endeavors. Might try writing one eventually just to see if I can.
I would think takyris and all the other people working as writers for companies like Bioware would disagree with this statement.
Also, you all need to check out www.choiceofgames.com
Do Choice of the Dragon and Choice of Romance and then I dare you to tell me you didn't have fun.
I would write (and play!) games like that in a heartbeat. Visual elements would only make it better.
I just read this recently. I was quite enjoying the premise of