So I want to build an effective Vampire Counts list without fielding special characters( because I hate them and believe they ruin the experience at medium point level games), and I am seriously having trouble winning at 1000 points. I built a 2000 point list for review, and I'd like it if the more experienced players would compare it to what they've seen in other Vampire counts lists. Keep in mind I'm using what I have bought or made myself.
Here's a 1k list I used against a friend who had an Empire army with lot of a guns, a unit of knights, a mortar, a stank, and some other shit. Like you, I was limited to what I actually had in my possession, so I ended up having to trick out a couple of Vamps to fill my point requirements. In the end, I beat the shit out of him, but I knew he was gun-crazy, so I planned for that:
Crypt Ghouls x10 (w/Crypt Ghast)
88
Skeleton Warriors x10 (spears and shields, w/musician, standard bearer, Banner of Hellish Vig, and champion)
132
Vampire (w/Lord of the Dead, Helm of Commandment, Dispel Scroll)
170
Total = 1000 Points
Sent my wolves after his gunners, and they chased them off the table before dying terribly to his stank. That actually ended up okay, since it kept the stank relatively distracted. The Varghulf sped up the side of the table, destroying a mortar crew and a unit of outriders. The skellies lurched forward, and along with the crypt ghouls (with Konrad in their midst), wiped out his knights and a solo warrior priest.
Would I take that list always? Unlikely. But since I knew my opponent, and knew what kind of player he was, it really helped. I would recommend taking the Helm of Commandment, especially if you plan on using grave guard with great weapons. Crypt ghouls are highly underrated as a core unit. Dire wolves are a cheap way to increase your mobility, and the Varghulf is a fucking killing machine.
Guys, sorry to get between your hardcore Warhammer debate, but do any of you know what these are? there are 3 models here and they are from 1995. I know one is from the dark elves, but the other 2 are a mystery. They use to be my brothers from a long time ago.
The two dual-wielding chicks are witch elves. The dude with the staff is...a HE mage maybe?
Guys, sorry to get between your hardcore Warhammer debate, but do any of you know what these are? there are 3 models here and they are from 1995. I know one is from the dark elves, but the other 2 are a mystery. They use to be my brothers from a long time ago.
The two dual-wielding chicks are witch elves. The dude with the staff is...a HE mage maybe?
It's actually a Dark Elf Sorceror
Asher on
I put models on Instagram now: asher_paints
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General NemoThe Mighty ShameChurch for DogsRegistered Userregular
So I want to build an effective Vampire Counts list without fielding special characters( because I hate them and believe they ruin the experience at medium point level games), and I am seriously having trouble winning at 1000 points. I built a 2000 point list for review, and I'd like it if the more experienced players would compare it to what they've seen in other Vampire counts lists. Keep in mind I'm using what I have bought or made myself.
Here's a 1k list I used against a friend who had an Empire army with lot of a guns, a unit of knights, a mortar, a stank, and some other shit. Like you, I was limited to what I actually had in my possession, so I ended up having to trick out a couple of Vamps to fill my point requirements. In the end, I beat the shit out of him, but I knew he was gun-crazy, so I planned for that:
Crypt Ghouls x10 (w/Crypt Ghast)
88
Skeleton Warriors x10 (spears and shields, w/musician, standard bearer, Banner of Hellish Vig, and champion)
132
Vampire (w/Lord of the Dead, Helm of Commandment, Dispel Scroll)
170
Total = 1000 Points
Sent my wolves after his gunners, and they chased them off the table before dying terribly to his stank. That actually ended up okay, since it kept the stank relatively distracted. The Varghulf sped up the side of the table, destroying a mortar crew and a unit of outriders. The skellies lurched forward, and along with the crypt ghouls (with Konrad in their midst), wiped out his knights and a solo warrior priest.
Would I take that list always? Unlikely. But since I knew my opponent, and knew what kind of player he was, it really helped. I would recommend taking the Helm of Commandment, especially if you plan on using grave guard with great weapons. Crypt ghouls are highly underrated as a core unit. Dire wolves are a cheap way to increase your mobility, and the Varghulf is a fucking killing machine.
God I love VC...
I took Konrad against a HE player at 1400 pts. yesterday and he destroyed the Silver Helms that charged him. I like him but I don't usually like taking special characters.
But I do like the list. When I get Dire Wolves, I'll keep that in mind.
Thanks alot guys. Didn't know what they really were.
Were Witch elves powerful back then or something? They're metal...
Shiekahn_boy on
"your a moron you know that wolves have packs wich they rely on nd they could ever here of lone wolves? you an idiot and your gay, wolves have packs and are smart with tactics" - Youtube Wolf Enthusiast.
Ah ha ha, I hate GW sometimes. So recently there was the DE FAQ which said that Rending Stars + Manbane + T6 = S7. The writer for the DE book disagrees. Of course, this article is from before the FAQ, but he says twice in it that S7 was never the intention.
The whole article is interesting, like his thoughts on PoK, why common items cost different amounts and why the Ring of Hotek is so cheap.
EDIT - Apparently he regrets the way Khainite turned out. That's nice.
Quick question about Chaos Knights; is it worth giving 'em lances or leave 'em as is?
Leave 'em as-is. The points aren't worth getting +1S on the charge, then -1S on the next round (if there is one), and the lances don't count as magic weapons, so knights with lances are much worse against ethereal stuff and anything vulnerable specifically to magical weapons.
Mouschi on
Gamertag: Cunning Hekate // League of Legends: FeroxPA
Quick question about Chaos Knights; is it worth giving 'em lances or leave 'em as is?
Leave 'em as-is. The points aren't worth getting +1S on the charge, then -1S on the next round (if there is one), and the lances don't count as magic weapons, so knights with lances are much worse against ethereal stuff and anything vulnerable specifically to magical weapons.
Thanks. Kinda sucks; they look so good with the lances, but effective is effective.
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Mr_Rose83 Blue Ridge Protects the HolyRegistered Userregular
Quick question about Chaos Knights; is it worth giving 'em lances or leave 'em as is?
That is one of the most heated debates in Warhammer, principally because there's no really obvious major benefit to either; S5/magic all the time vs S6 on the charge is actually a really close-run thing.
Personally though, I prefer the magic S5 weapons because they are cheaper and because of a lot of ethereal/wood-elf/can-only-be-hit-by-magic opponents.
I would take lances if you didn't have to pay for the upgrade. Which one is strictly better than the other in practice is extremely debatable but when one costs 5 fucking points per model and the other is free, there is no debate.
EDIT: I misunderstood the Khaneite thing. I thought you meant Khaneites as in dark elves as a whole, not the Khaneite rule itself.
It is cheap when compared on those direct terms, yes. On the other hand, it is costed bearing in mind two things – the Toughness 3 of the character wearing it, and the fact that it does not protect against all types of damage.
I like how his answer is basically "The PoK is so cheap because Dark Elves are pussies".
Erandus on
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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admanbunionize your workplaceSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
So, with the new army books, Beasts of Chaos can no longer take WoC units? I hope this means that Centigors get some kind of boost. Being able to take a unit of WoC knights was one of the saving graces of a relatively underpowered army.
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PiptheFairFrequently not in boats.Registered Userregular
edited June 2009
they likely are not going to get a new book before the end of the year
So, with the new army books, Beasts of Chaos can no longer take WoC units? I hope this means that Centigors get some kind of boost. Being able to take a unit of WoC knights was one of the saving graces of a relatively underpowered army.
There's no cross-armying at all anymore in Chaos. I think that's really lame, personally, and not terribly fluffy, and as the only book not currently redone, BoC are taking it in the butt to the full extent at this point. WoC were kinda left hanging when half their book got chopped out from them at the DoC release, but Beasts really have nothing left. Even as an Ogre player, I feel bad for them.
EDIT: Also, ArmyBuilder all the way. I am a lazy man and it makes pretty sheets. Sucks that Army Roster got run out of town, but really... Who didn't see that coming?
EDIT: Also, ArmyBuilder all the way. I am a lazy man and it makes pretty sheets. Sucks that Army Roster got run out of town, but really... Who didn't see that coming?
Army Roster is going through some re-design right now. Keep checking back.
They're a relatively cheap way to add mobility, and work great as a screen. They're a pain in the ass to assemble and paint though. Be sure to have some green stuff handy, because there's lots of visible cracks near the nape.
Been meaning to get some fell bats, but their models are so fucking ugly. Spirit hosts are nice, because they're ethereal, but you can get 3 fell bats that fly, have 2 wounds each, and 2 attacks each, for 60 points. One spirit hose base is 65 points. So it's kind of a toss up there. Chances are I'd take the bats, but it depends on what you're fighting.
Jackmode on
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AlazullYour body is not a temple, it's an amusement park.Enjoy the ride.Registered Userregular
I figure buying the dude a beer or two will pay for that one.
you may get dick punched
Eh, I still had the PoK. I'll let him roll a D6, if he gets a 1 he can dick punch me.
What is a PoK? Some kind of ward save?
Pendant of Khaeleth, the most broken item in the game. For 35 points, it gives you a ward save where you have to roll the strength of the hit or under to save. So, if you get hit by S5 or higher it's essentially like having a 2+ ward save, only with a 6 being a failure.
EDIT - Ah, Pip, don't forget the equal to part!
So, Snotlings would be the counter to that.
Which would involve charging Snotlings into a Dreadlord.
what
EDIT: Oh, and has anyone fought an Organ Gun? Are they worth the points? y/n
Oh Lord I hate fighting Organ Guns. I consider people who take 2 in 1k games to be total assholes. As for low S attacks, that what armor saves are for. Things get even more crazy if you give the dude the Armor of Eternal Servitude (one of the most underpriced magic items in the game).
On the Organ Gun: God yes, it is the best Rare choice for Dwarfs. Sure, the Gyrocopter can march block and can take out lone characters. The Organ gun can point itself at anything in LOS and within 24" and say, "I'm raping that."
I don't even think you can take two at 1k, but if you can don't. It is horribly dickish and automatically qualifies you as taking a gunline, and if you're at a tournament then your comp score will go down. Plus, you will get kicked so hard in the balls you will vomit up your testicles.
Alazull on
User name Alazull on Steam, PSN, Nintenders, Epic, etc.
EDIT: Also, ArmyBuilder all the way. I am a lazy man and it makes pretty sheets. Sucks that Army Roster got run out of town, but really... Who didn't see that coming?
Army Roster is going through some re-design right now. Keep checking back.
Yeah, I saw the announcement. My understanding is that he's going for a more Army-Builder like approach, where he'll provide a "generic" army creator and there will somehow be user driven content for it beyond the core framework. We'll see.
I don't even think you can take two at 1k, but if you can don't. It is horribly dickish and automatically qualifies you as taking a gunline, and if you're at a tournament then your comp score will go down. Plus, you will get kicked so hard in the balls you will vomit up your testicles.
We should really put together some sort of "things you can't do without being labled a cockbag" list.
Erandus on
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CorporateLogoThe toilet knowshow I feelRegistered Userregular
edited June 2009
So, I've been thinking about picking up that goblin on gigantic spider model for a while now. Problem is, I don't believe it counts as fast cav. The stat line is listed under the Spider Riders which says they get fast cav, but the mount section only shows it having Wall-crawlers and Poisoned Attacks. If that's the case then there's really no place to put him outside of a Boar Boyz unit, which doesn't really suit a goblin.
Also, bows on Spider Riders, worth it or no? They come with spears standard. I'm leaning towards no.
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Do not have a cow, mortal.
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Mr_Rose83 Blue Ridge Protects the HolyRegistered Userregular
edited June 2009
Protip: Bestiary entries always, always, take precedence over summaries. If it says it's Fast Cav in it's page in the main section of the book then it's fast cav. OTOH, if it gives one set of special rules for them all and then has brackets after certain rules indicating which stat-lines they apply to, you have to be more careful.
Posts
Here's a 1k list I used against a friend who had an Empire army with lot of a guns, a unit of knights, a mortar, a stank, and some other shit. Like you, I was limited to what I actually had in my possession, so I ended up having to trick out a couple of Vamps to fill my point requirements. In the end, I beat the shit out of him, but I knew he was gun-crazy, so I planned for that:
(w/Crypt Ghast)
88
Skeleton Warriors x10
(spears and shields, w/musician, standard bearer, Banner of Hellish Vig, and champion)
132
Dire Wolves x10
(w/Doom Wolf)
90
Varghulf
175
Konrad von Carstein
145
Vampire (General)
(w/Forbidden Lore, Summon Ghouls, Armor of Night, Dispel Scroll)
200
Vampire
(w/Lord of the Dead, Helm of Commandment, Dispel Scroll)
170
Total = 1000 Points
Sent my wolves after his gunners, and they chased them off the table before dying terribly to his stank. That actually ended up okay, since it kept the stank relatively distracted. The Varghulf sped up the side of the table, destroying a mortar crew and a unit of outriders. The skellies lurched forward, and along with the crypt ghouls (with Konrad in their midst), wiped out his knights and a solo warrior priest.
Would I take that list always? Unlikely. But since I knew my opponent, and knew what kind of player he was, it really helped. I would recommend taking the Helm of Commandment, especially if you plan on using grave guard with great weapons. Crypt ghouls are highly underrated as a core unit. Dire wolves are a cheap way to increase your mobility, and the Varghulf is a fucking killing machine.
God I love VC...
The two dual-wielding chicks are witch elves. The dude with the staff is...a HE mage maybe?
It's actually a Dark Elf Sorceror
I took Konrad against a HE player at 1400 pts. yesterday and he destroyed the Silver Helms that charged him. I like him but I don't usually like taking special characters.
But I do like the list. When I get Dire Wolves, I'll keep that in mind.
Were Witch elves powerful back then or something? They're metal...
I read that and totally thought you meant:
Witch elves are F'ing metal?
well, they kinda are
also, most models were metal way back then
it was a very heavy hobby
Indeed!
The whole article is interesting, like his thoughts on PoK, why common items cost different amounts and why the Ring of Hotek is so cheap.
EDIT - Apparently he regrets the way Khainite turned out. That's nice.
I've got an MP3 of the song from it too; it's ridiculously close to GW 80's artwork.
Leave 'em as-is. The points aren't worth getting +1S on the charge, then -1S on the next round (if there is one), and the lances don't count as magic weapons, so knights with lances are much worse against ethereal stuff and anything vulnerable specifically to magical weapons.
Gamertag: Cunning Hekate // League of Legends: FeroxPA
Thanks. Kinda sucks; they look so good with the lances, but effective is effective.
Personally though, I prefer the magic S5 weapons because they are cheaper and because of a lot of ethereal/wood-elf/can-only-be-hit-by-magic opponents.
Nintendo Network ID: AzraelRose
DropBox invite link - get 500MB extra free.
EDIT: I misunderstood the Khaneite thing. I thought you meant Khaneites as in dark elves as a whole, not the Khaneite rule itself.
I like how his answer is basically "The PoK is so cheap because Dark Elves are pussies".
Games Workshop went through a metal phase back during the whole fantasy-metal craze. That was a disturbing period.
Touche.
But it still frightens me.
Um, Army Builder?
Thanks. :P
I use a spreadsheet, and my memorization of item point costs.
There's no cross-armying at all anymore in Chaos. I think that's really lame, personally, and not terribly fluffy, and as the only book not currently redone, BoC are taking it in the butt to the full extent at this point. WoC were kinda left hanging when half their book got chopped out from them at the DoC release, but Beasts really have nothing left. Even as an Ogre player, I feel bad for them.
EDIT: Also, ArmyBuilder all the way. I am a lazy man and it makes pretty sheets. Sucks that Army Roster got run out of town, but really... Who didn't see that coming?
Army Roster is going through some re-design right now. Keep checking back.
They're a relatively cheap way to add mobility, and work great as a screen. They're a pain in the ass to assemble and paint though. Be sure to have some green stuff handy, because there's lots of visible cracks near the nape.
Been meaning to get some fell bats, but their models are so fucking ugly. Spirit hosts are nice, because they're ethereal, but you can get 3 fell bats that fly, have 2 wounds each, and 2 attacks each, for 60 points. One spirit hose base is 65 points. So it's kind of a toss up there. Chances are I'd take the bats, but it depends on what you're fighting.
On the Organ Gun: God yes, it is the best Rare choice for Dwarfs. Sure, the Gyrocopter can march block and can take out lone characters. The Organ gun can point itself at anything in LOS and within 24" and say, "I'm raping that."
I don't even think you can take two at 1k, but if you can don't. It is horribly dickish and automatically qualifies you as taking a gunline, and if you're at a tournament then your comp score will go down. Plus, you will get kicked so hard in the balls you will vomit up your testicles.
Yeah, I saw the announcement. My understanding is that he's going for a more Army-Builder like approach, where he'll provide a "generic" army creator and there will somehow be user driven content for it beyond the core framework. We'll see.
We should really put together some sort of "things you can't do without being labled a cockbag" list.
Also, bows on Spider Riders, worth it or no? They come with spears standard. I'm leaning towards no.
Nintendo Network ID: AzraelRose
DropBox invite link - get 500MB extra free.
How nerdy is it it write your own backstory for an army? WHICH I TOTALLY HAVEN'T DONE.