I think Thanatos is trying to articulate that many people use their Jewish heritage as an excuse to be horrible assholes, and because of their socio-economic stature, it's much more dangerous than when, say, the children of African-American slaves do it.
That sounds very much like it's heading into "Jews control the world" territory, by which I mean crazytown. Is there any evidence that shows Jews are disproportionally represented among the successful?
the problem is how small a sample Jews are, comparetively. it's like comparing apples and grapes.
Money is power. Their numbers merely mean that they have to concentrate it to keep it from being diluted.
Incenjucar on
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Der Waffle MousBlame this on the misfortune of your birth.New Yark, New Yark.Registered Userregular
edited June 2009
Was I wrong to assume that this was less about what we're arguing now, and more about how the words "anti-semite" tend to be used as a bludgeon against any criticism of Israel's actions?
Because I have seen that happen a lot in the local news back around the Lebanon incident.
Last I checked, Jews were massively over-represented in the U.S. Congress, along with the high side of the income scale. I'm not saying that anti-semitism doesn't exist in this country, but given the responses one garners when one has the slightest negative thing to say about Israel, I'd say reverse-anti-semitism ("anti-gentilism," if you will) is a far greater problem.
Now, would THIS have been an acceptable thing to post?
Last I checked, a Black man was president, and many popular musicians and comedians are also black. I'm not saying that racism doesn't exist in this country, but given the responses one garners when one has the slightest negative thing to say about inner city crime, I'd say reverse-racism ("anti-whitism," if you will) is a far greater problem.
I thought the "How dare other minorities play the victim card, we have it WORSE" mindset was something unique to my people.
this isn't that
this is the "reverse racism" card, just with special guest "Jews" filling in for "Blacks"
Again, it's not my fault that the Jewish anti-hate groups have married themselves so strongly to the pro-Israel groups that instead of fighting actual hate, they're just hatchet-men for the pro-Israel lobby.
And I'm goddamned well not going to take it back just because you think I'm being unfair; I'm being perfectly fucking fair, you just don't like that I'm right.
You are holding ALL Jews responsible for the actions of a minority WITHIN a minority.
I DO NOT say this lightly, but you, sir, ARE an Anti-Semite. When you start declaring that name calling is a greater issue to this nation than ACTUAL crimes which are occurring, or start implying conspiracy (what else it the point of bringing up "the number of Jews in power"?) you are tipping your hand.
The great irony being that the majority of Jews are actually incredibly liberal, just like you. You're unwilling to accept them as allies, though, because a couple of Jews looked at you funny, and you were offended.
Oh, for fuck's sake, all I'm saying is that while most minorities face systemic racism and prejudice, Jews are faced with primarily isolated incidents of racism and prejudice (which by no means make it okay), and that the pro-Israel lobbies actions are a far greater threat to the world as a whole than the actions of a few douchebags. The only reason I'm citing the societal and political presence of the Jews is to point out that they aren't facing the same kind of systemic racism that other minorities do.
And where in the world did I say that there is some sort of global conspiracy of Jews? The only actions I'm talking about are the actions of the most vocal Jewish groups, who tend to be accepted as speaking for the Jewish population as a whole because--despite being a "minority within a minority"--most Jewish groups are afraid to speak out against them for fear of being accused of being whatever the Jewish equivalent of an "Uncle Tom" is.
I really dont even know where to start....
Incenjucar, as a citizen of Israel and an Ex soldier i can promise you that no military action was ever excused with "they killed my grandpa in the gas chambers".
and all of you need to decide if ur talking about jews or about Israeli international politics.
stop fusing those two togather. as a jew im insulted by it.
and jews will start being a problem in the states once they start going out and shooting at afro americans and other people cuz they arent jewish or said some thing bad about Israel.
and BTW seeing the word kike a gazillion times in this thread isnt fun. and its as bad as seeing the word N-word(cuz saying kike is ok. but say N____, and get banned) posted with so little regard to what stands behind it.
Last I checked, Jews were massively over-represented in the U.S. Congress, along with the high side of the income scale. I'm not saying that anti-semitism doesn't exist in this country, but given the responses one garners when one has the slightest negative thing to say about Israel, I'd say reverse-anti-semitism ("anti-gentilism," if you will) is a far greater problem.
Now, would THIS have been an acceptable thing to post?
Last I checked, a Black man was president, and many popular musicians and comedians are also black. I'm not saying that racism doesn't exist in this country, but given the responses one garners when one has the slightest negative thing to say about inner city crime, I'd say reverse-racism ("anti-whitism," if you will) is a far greater problem.
The fact that you even begin to compare prejudice against Jews in this country to prejudice against black people is fucking laughable. They're not even on the same order of magnitude. Nowhere close.
the problem is how small a sample Jews are, comparetively. it's like comparing apples and grapes.
Money is power. Their numbers merely mean that they have to concentrate it to keep it from being diluted.
except that Jews don't controll a majority of the money in the country.
I don't think you realize just how small a group sews are. We are 1.7% of the US population. that is just over five and a quarter million. That is LESS than a third of the population of New York city, but spread through the ENTIRE country.
Last I checked, Jews were massively over-represented in the U.S. Congress, along with the high side of the income scale. I'm not saying that anti-semitism doesn't exist in this country, but given the responses one garners when one has the slightest negative thing to say about Israel, I'd say reverse-anti-semitism ("anti-gentilism," if you will) is a far greater problem.
Now, would THIS have been an acceptable thing to post?
Last I checked, a Black man was president, and many popular musicians and comedians are also black. I'm not saying that racism doesn't exist in this country, but given the responses one garners when one has the slightest negative thing to say about inner city crime, I'd say reverse-racism ("anti-whitism," if you will) is a far greater problem.
The fact that you even begin to compare prejudice against Jews in this country to prejudice against black people is fucking laughable. They're not even on the same order of magnitude. Nowhere close.
And THAT makes your racism okay?
Go ahead, and tell me why it's okay for you to hate an entire group of people, the vast majority of whom you've never met.
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Der Waffle MousBlame this on the misfortune of your birth.New Yark, New Yark.Registered Userregular
But the rampant overuse of the "Anti-Semite" care IS really really really bad. Because it cripples the US's ability to properly deal with Israel. Anyone who comes out strongly against Israel's actions is tarred with the Anti-Semite bush (see: Jimmy Carter)
This has a HUGE effect on US foreign policy, especially in the Middle East. And has alot to do with the thousands thousands dying down there in various ways. And also comes back on the US and it's allies from people pissed at the US's support of Israel.
So, yeah, I'd say it's a bigger deal.
Was I wrong to assume that this was less about what we're arguing now, and more about how the words "anti-semite" tend to be used as a bludgeon against any criticism of Israel's actions?
Because I have seen that happen a lot in the local news back around the Lebanon incident.
I really dont even know where to start....
Incenjucar, as a citizen of Israel and an Ex soldier i can promise you that no military action was ever excused with "they killed my grandpa in the gas chambers".
and all of you need to decide if ur talking about jews or about Israeli international politics.
stop fusing those two togather. as a jew im insulted by it.
and jews will start being a problem in the states once they start going out and shooting at afro americans and other people cuz they arent jewish or said some thing bad about Israel.
and BTW seeing the word kike a gazillion times in this thread isnt fun. and its as bad as seeing the word n***** posted with so little regard to what stands behind it.
The N-word is explicitly banned on these forums. I suggest you edit that out.
And if you have a problem with the pro-Israel lobby in the U.S. being so intertwined with Jewish interests, I suggest you write the ADL and let them know, because they were the ones who fucking started it.
except that Jews don't controll a majority of the money in the country.
No, but as individuals they average out MUCH better than anyone else, and our country is divided into states, counties, cities, districts, and neighborhoods.
I don't think you realize just how small a group sews are. We are 1.7% of the US population. that is just over five and a quarter million. That is LESS than a third of the population of New York city, but spread through the ENTIRE country.
The fact that you even begin to compare prejudice against Jews in this country to prejudice against black people is fucking laughable. They're not even on the same order of magnitude. Nowhere close.
And THAT makes your racism okay?
Go ahead, and tell me why it's okay for you to hate an entire group of people, the vast majority of whom you've never met.
Speaking of Jews specifically, I don't hate Jews; I hate specific Jewish lobbying organizations, but I don't hate Jews.
As for why it's okay for me to hate entire groups of people, the vast majority of whom I've never met, I hate Neo-Nazis and KKK members, too. Also agriculture conglomerates, hippies, and Christoholics. I don't see anything wrong with any of that.
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Der Waffle MousBlame this on the misfortune of your birth.New Yark, New Yark.Registered Userregular
except that Jews don't controll a majority of the money in the country.
No, but as individuals they average out MUCH better than anyone else, and our country is divided into states, counties, cities, districts, and neighborhoods.
I don't think you realize just how small a group sews are. We are 1.7% of the US population. that is just over five and a quarter million. That is LESS than a third of the population of New York city, but spread through the ENTIRE country.
The racial situation with the "Black" population is not the same as that of the Jewish population.
Not remotely.
You may as well say that the Native Americans and Koreans are on the same footing.
and that makes it okay to hate Jews?
Who here hates Jews?
Thanatos, at best, just hates the Jewish lobby.
But, but, the two are exactly the same m i rite?
Which is, to some extent, exactly what he seems to have been talking about in the first place. Amusing.
Oh, and having a black president is an aberration. They're still underrepresented across the entire power structure, and will be even more so when our next white president gets elected (whether in 4 or 8 years, either way).
And rappers and athletes don't (in general) make broad policy.
The racial situation with the "Black" population is not the same as that of the Jewish population.
Not remotely.
You may as well say that the Native Americans and Koreans are on the same footing.
and that makes it okay to hate Jews?
Who here hates Jews?
Thanatos, at best, just hates the Jewish lobby.
But, but, the two are exactly the same m i rite?
Which is, to some extent, exactly what he seems to have been talking about in the first place. Amusing.
Oh, and having a black president is an aberration. They're still underrepresented across the entire power structure, and will be even more so when our next white president gets elected (whether in 4 or 8 years, either way).
And rappers and athletes don't (in general) make broad policy.
And the broad policy that Jews support (in general) is ACTUALLY the same stuff that Thanatos supports.
The racial situation with the "Black" population is not the same as that of the Jewish population.
Not remotely.
You may as well say that the Native Americans and Koreans are on the same footing.
and that makes it okay to hate Jews?
No, but its a goddamned insulting comparison.
why is it insulting?
did you say the same thing about when people compared gay marriage to interracial marriage?
Probably because the comparison of gay marriage bans to interracial marriage bans is a valid fucking comparison, whereas the comparison of prejudice against Jews to prejudice against black people isn't?
This is like when the Republicans were comparing themselves to the Reformists in Iran. "I almost got hit by a taxi on the way to work, now I know what it was like at Tienanmen Square."
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KageraImitating the worst people. Since 2004Registered Userregular
The racial situation with the "Black" population is not the same as that of the Jewish population.
Not remotely.
You may as well say that the Native Americans and Koreans are on the same footing.
and that makes it okay to hate Jews?
Who here hates Jews?
Thanatos, at best, just hates the Jewish lobby.
But, but, the two are exactly the same m i rite?
Which is, to some extent, exactly what he seems to have been talking about in the first place. Amusing.
Oh, and having a black president is an aberration. They're still underrepresented across the entire power structure, and will be even more so when our next white president gets elected (whether in 4 or 8 years, either way).
And rappers and athletes don't (in general) make broad policy.
And the broad policy that Jews support (in general) is ACTUALLY the same stuff that Thanatos supports.
If we're talking about Jewish politicians, well, then, I'm anti-genocide, they're pro-genocide; I'm anti-apartheid, they're pro-apartheid. Everything else just kinda seems like bullshit in comparison.
I mean, really, how would you feel about a KKK member who was strongly pro-choice, pro-universal health care, in favor of progressive taxation, and supported a more internationalist foreign policy, but just felt that black people should go back to Africa?
Thanatos, i will leave this forum hoping to never come back(unless some thing interesting happens here).
and my parting words are...
Sir, You are a racist. and there is little you can say against that.
Ok look this right here? This is the entire point of the thread. Make any criticism of Israel or the Jewish lobby and suddenly you are branded an anti-semite. This is the problem. You right here are proving that.
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Money is power. Their numbers merely mean that they have to concentrate it to keep it from being diluted.
Because I have seen that happen a lot in the local news back around the Lebanon incident.
Now, would THIS have been an acceptable thing to post?
Not remotely.
You may as well say that the Native Americans and Koreans are on the same footing.
And where in the world did I say that there is some sort of global conspiracy of Jews? The only actions I'm talking about are the actions of the most vocal Jewish groups, who tend to be accepted as speaking for the Jewish population as a whole because--despite being a "minority within a minority"--most Jewish groups are afraid to speak out against them for fear of being accused of being whatever the Jewish equivalent of an "Uncle Tom" is.
Incenjucar, as a citizen of Israel and an Ex soldier i can promise you that no military action was ever excused with "they killed my grandpa in the gas chambers".
and all of you need to decide if ur talking about jews or about Israeli international politics.
stop fusing those two togather. as a jew im insulted by it.
and jews will start being a problem in the states once they start going out and shooting at afro americans and other people cuz they arent jewish or said some thing bad about Israel.
and BTW seeing the word kike a gazillion times in this thread isnt fun. and its as bad as seeing the word N-word(cuz saying kike is ok. but say N____, and get banned) posted with so little regard to what stands behind it.
except that Jews don't controll a majority of the money in the country.
I don't think you realize just how small a group sews are. We are 1.7% of the US population. that is just over five and a quarter million. That is LESS than a third of the population of New York city, but spread through the ENTIRE country.
And THAT makes your racism okay?
Go ahead, and tell me why it's okay for you to hate an entire group of people, the vast majority of whom you've never met.
Its the only word we have banned here.
This has a HUGE effect on US foreign policy, especially in the Middle East. And has alot to do with the thousands thousands dying down there in various ways. And also comes back on the US and it's allies from people pissed at the US's support of Israel.
So, yeah, I'd say it's a bigger deal.
That's why I thought it was about.
And if you have a problem with the pro-Israel lobby in the U.S. being so intertwined with Jewish interests, I suggest you write the ADL and let them know, because they were the ones who fucking started it.
and that makes it okay to hate Jews?
Who here hates Jews?
Thanatos, at best, just hates the Jewish lobby.
No, but as individuals they average out MUCH better than anyone else, and our country is divided into states, counties, cities, districts, and neighborhoods.
And?
How many Senators are there in the country?
Depends on the region.
there are some places where Jews WOULD be systematically persecuted if any of them were there.
As for why it's okay for me to hate entire groups of people, the vast majority of whom I've never met, I hate Neo-Nazis and KKK members, too. Also agriculture conglomerates, hippies, and Christoholics. I don't see anything wrong with any of that.
Nobody here hates Jews as a race.
We can sure hate what the most powerful people who happen to be Jewish are doing though.
That's not what his posts in here are saying.
oh noes the jews are coming to steal ur monies
PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
Actually, it is. The problem is he's not articulating it that well and your blatantly overreacting.
why is it insulting?
did you say the same thing about when people compared gay marriage to interracial marriage?
But, but, the two are exactly the same m i rite?
Which is, to some extent, exactly what he seems to have been talking about in the first place. Amusing.
Oh, and having a black president is an aberration. They're still underrepresented across the entire power structure, and will be even more so when our next white president gets elected (whether in 4 or 8 years, either way).
And rappers and athletes don't (in general) make broad policy.
I'd have had him on ignore AGES ago if I could. Can't ignore mods, though.
And the broad policy that Jews support (in general) is ACTUALLY the same stuff that Thanatos supports.
Another bad comparison.
Jewish people have, on average, wonderful socioeconomic status.
Black people have, on average, horrible socioeconomic status.
Gay marriage and interracial marriage do not have socioeconomic status components.
This is like when the Republicans were comparing themselves to the Reformists in Iran. "I almost got hit by a taxi on the way to work, now I know what it was like at Tienanmen Square."
Sigged.
I mean, really, how would you feel about a KKK member who was strongly pro-choice, pro-universal health care, in favor of progressive taxation, and supported a more internationalist foreign policy, but just felt that black people should go back to Africa?
That statement is your DEFENSE that you are not being racist?
and my parting words are...
Sir, You are a racist. and there is little you can say against that.
Where the flying fucktown you got that from I have no idea.