I don't even understand why Defend is a factor, the damage reduction is only against ranged and AG gaunts are fast/plentiful enough to have all your shit tied up almost instantly.
I don't even understand why Defend is a factor, the damage reduction is only against ranged and AG gaunts are fast/plentiful enough to have all your shit tied up almost instantly.
No, it works in melee too. What, you trust the tooltip? Remember conceal/distort field?
Hmm at my low trueskill level I don't encounter too many 'nid players and the other 3 races are equal enough that any imbalances can be overcome. From the attitude in this thread it seems this will change as my trueskill raises and normalizes.
Melee's bonus dmg on retreating is quick annoying though.
Here's a tip for anyone that wants to be good at the game. Spam one unit. Guardians, banshees, horms, TSM, sluggas, shootas, it doesn't matter. Just spam that power-free unit and kill their generators with your unkillable hoard and tech up to anti-tank units. Bonus for Eldar going banshees, you don't even really need to get a t2 unit, so go right on through to fire prisms.
You're now unbeatable because you don't need to know anything about attack move but that's okay, because if something's easy to use that doesn't mean it's broken, ergo spamming one unit isn't broken.
I really want this game to not be so fucking broken, because it could be really, really good.
You can see the bar of gold, or the diamond, or the gem, or whatever you want to use in this metaphor, but it's covered by an elephant's weight in pure poop. And honestly, who wants to dig through that?
Here's a tip for anyone that wants to be good at the game. Spam one unit. Guardians, banshees, horms, TSM, sluggas, shootas, it doesn't matter. Just spam that power-free unit and kill their generators with your unkillable hoard and tech up to anti-tank units. Bonus for Eldar going banshees, you don't even really need to get a t2 unit, so go right on through to fire prisms.
You're now unbeatable because you don't need to know anything about attack move but that's okay, because if something's easy to use that doesn't mean it's broken, ergo spamming one unit isn't broken.
I am not sure if you are joking, but spaming one unit type doesn't seem to work in the games I've played. If your opponent combines a few counters and you could be in for real trouble if you just keep spamming that unit.
Also guardians are freaking horrible at power harrassment. OMG they do no damage to the generators without their nades, even with their nades they take forever to take down generators. =(
Didn't you also buy COH? And now DOW2 and presumably the first one and a couple of expansions maybe? You have a strange way or displaying hate. Usually when you hate someone you don't give them a hundred dollars.
So, DoW2 killed my Video card, unfortunately. Ironically enough I normally only play 1v1, but this was after a 3v3 that looked more intense then any Michael Bay film I've ever seen.
I regret paying full price for DoW2 more than any other game I've paid full price for, and I bought The Temple of Elemental Evil on launch day.
Relic is a bunch of tricksters. Making me think it would stay fun with the beta and then ruining it days after I pre-ordered but promising to fix it by retail.
Pancake on
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Custom SpecialI know I am, I'm sure I am,I'm Sounders 'til I die!Registered Userregular
I don't remember, how were the suppression units different?
Suppression units suppressed very quickly and units in the suppression if they didn't retreat would be killed very quickly as well. Making them quite worth while and requiring hard counters to really deal with. You could not just run up to a suppression weapon and destroy it for example.
This is back before the retail.
I've still found no version of the game more fun and interesting than that beta.
I kind of want a dev to come in here and lie to me and say they are working on a new patch and oh man it will make things so great. The silence is what kills me.
I know its been said, but the retreat/melee interplay has basically terribled out the entire game. The whole thing was demonstrated to me with ugly finality when I had one of my lone banshee squads confronted by the enemy warlock and his requisite 2 banshees in tow. I went to retreat but as I was about to the warlock knocked down my entire squad, with the yellow arrow of doom sitting above their heads as they sat on their asses. This gave the 2 banshee squads time to close on mine and they were dead in seconds.
I'm not bitching because I lost a squad, just that the lethality of melee units is like they come from an entirely different game to the ranged ones.
It just fucking drives me insane that melee units can run down and kill my entire retreating squads, but as soon as some fucks run away from me my guns start shooting blanks.
But if they didn't do extra damage it wouldn't be economical using melee armies. That's why the devs made the game like they did - great!. Seeing 3 or 4 or 5 or fucking whatever AG horm squads chasing down and killing half my army every time my opponent decides to attack move his blob with strangler in tow just proves their point and shows awesome they are at this balancing thing.
Here's a tip for anyone that wants to be good at the game. Spam one unit. Guardians, banshees, horms, TSM, sluggas, shootas, it doesn't matter. Just spam that power-free unit and kill their generators with your unkillable hoard and tech up to anti-tank units. Bonus for Eldar going banshees, you don't even really need to get a t2 unit, so go right on through to fire prisms.
You're now unbeatable because you don't need to know anything about attack move but that's okay, because if something's easy to use that doesn't mean it's broken, ergo spamming one unit isn't broken.
I am not sure if you are joking, but spaming one unit type doesn't seem to work in the games I've played. If your opponent combines a few counters and you could be in for real trouble if you just keep spamming that unit.
Also guardians are freaking horrible at power harrassment. OMG they do no damage to the generators without their nades, even with their nades they take forever to take down generators. =(
Are you serious? Two guardians take down a generator farm faster than the enemy can reinforce from a grenade. Then again, you're using grenades on generators, which is pretty dumb.
The words "hard counters" lose meaning when you realize there's no hard counter to a spam. Three guardians wipe out infantry in seconds at no power cost. Then you just tech straight up and blow your power on whatever you want because you have a huge stock pile of it.
I love how I come back to the DOW2 thread for about the first time since before the beta patch was even news, and people are upset about the same fucking things they were upset about when the game hit retail. It's really just incredible.
BloodySloth on
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surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
edited August 2009
It's totally without rancour now; they are merely actors playing their part in the stage that is the great Dow2 thread.
I don't even understand why Defend is a factor, the damage reduction is only against ranged and AG gaunts are fast/plentiful enough to have all your shit tied up almost instantly.
After our disaster yesterday, Dalzi, DoA and myself turned to the dark side and played a couple of games like complete dickheaded dickheads. The first was against people pretty much playing their first game. If they play a second one, I'll be surprised. The next game was against a TS 28/29 team which should have made for a close game, except we all picked Lictor. None of us play nids, but we made the other team look completely fucking ordinary. It was a joke how easy it was. I built two squads of Horms (for three total) and gave them the AG upgrade. The next unit I built was a Screamer-Killer and there was hardly anything left for it to shoot at. We'd completely crushed the enemy team with a handful of squads of the basic fucking unit. I could have sleepwalked to victory. I think we wanted to kill ourselves when the match ended, it was a complete horrorshow.
So rather than fixing Tyranids it's even easier than before 1.5. Who needs tunnels when you can walk across the map in 10 seconds.
GJ relic. Ought to teach them NOT to buff units "as compensation for nerfing terribly OP units" like rippers. It's a terrible idea. Nerf what's OP and leave it at fucking that. No unnecessary compensations. No buffing up terms to OP status should you nerf AG Horms. Don't. It will never end like this.
I kind of want a dev to come in here and lie to me and say they are working on a new patch and oh man it will make things so great.
Well, there are new modes coming. Probably defend missions against NPC controlled tyranids (the tyranids that build more than 1-2 different units).
Alegis on
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surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
edited August 2009
REPLAY PLEASE DARLING THESE MAKE GREAT FODDER FOR THE SHOUTCAST MILL
surrealitycheck on
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KlykaDO you have anySPARE BATTERIES?Registered Userregular
edited August 2009
Replays for the shoutcast throne!!!
Klyka on
SC2 EU ID Klyka.110
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BethrynUnhappiness is MandatoryRegistered Userregular
edited August 2009
We demand you save the best hateplays you can find, otherwise we're forced to rely upon GameReplays and then Goomba will stomp on our heads. 8(
On another note, Scouts.
As much as I hate Scout spam, I still think Scouts on their own a) don't fulfil their role of anti-melee very well at all, and b) have a lot of power-demanding upgrades for one of the most fragile units on the game.
And honestly, I think they should give them grenades by default, and possibly give Infiltration to the Sargeant rather than have it as a third t1 power sink that few people use. As it is, scouts can push back one melee squad per shotgun upgrade. This doesn't deal a great deal of damage; the actual countering of the squad is left to supporting units. So for example, whereas melee units counter Tacs or Shootas should they meet in a skirmish, Scouts will always lose despite being the 'anti-melee' unit of SM.
Giving them grenades by default while keeping them as fragile units would at least help resolve this because 'nades actually are anti-melee when used well, meaning that without power requiring upgrades, they would counter what they're supposed to damn well counter. The power upgrade (i.e. shotgun) would make them better at it, surprise, surprise, like how most of the power upgrades work for the other units' basic roles. And at the same time, if they're kept fragile, since most ranged units counter scouts nicely, they shouldn't become an anti-everything unit.
On one further note, has anyone seen a Waaagh banner in multiplayer? I mean ever?
Once. Mekboy built like two of them and got stomped.
Pop cost is rather high (5). Takes 15 sec to build, destroyed quickly and is 75 req. And a great way to feed the opponent 25 zeal. 6% less incoming damage (normal and courage), 6% more damage, speed + 0.25, radius of 40. Not sure if it stacks with multiple banners.
[edit]The most infuriating thing about DOW2 is that a lot of the issues could be put into a more manageable state if Relic would only man up and put in hard caps. Literally the only people who will care are the people who play to each imbalance in each race in every patch; the people who were spamming Tacs in 1.3, and are currently spamming AG Horms.
DoA forbade me to ever share the scout spam game. I didn't save the Team Lictor game but I'll ask to see if the other two have it.
I saw a Waaagh banner recently but I think it was only under construction and I remember winning the game pretty easily. Back in 1.3 I played 2v2 where a Mekboy spammed Waaagh banners, maybe as many as 12 on one screen. Needless to say it didn't work.
(...) Not sure if it stacks with multiple banners.
They do stack with eachothers. They still don't do anything in the current version however. If you could actually build them within a reasonable window of time along with a reduction to 50 req maybe.
Posts
[Response to your post goes here, validating your trolling]
Mostly because it's busy flashing "RAVENER TUNNELS DEFENDED AG HORMS FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK EVERYTHING"
Melee's bonus dmg on retreating is quick annoying though.
side note: Warlock's warp throw is so awesome!
You're now unbeatable because you don't need to know anything about attack move but that's okay, because if something's easy to use that doesn't mean it's broken, ergo spamming one unit isn't broken.
You can see the bar of gold, or the diamond, or the gem, or whatever you want to use in this metaphor, but it's covered by an elephant's weight in pure poop. And honestly, who wants to dig through that?
I am not sure if you are joking, but spaming one unit type doesn't seem to work in the games I've played. If your opponent combines a few counters and you could be in for real trouble if you just keep spamming that unit.
Also guardians are freaking horrible at power harrassment. OMG they do no damage to the generators without their nades, even with their nades they take forever to take down generators. =(
Didn't you also buy COH? And now DOW2 and presumably the first one and a couple of expansions maybe? You have a strange way or displaying hate. Usually when you hate someone you don't give them a hundred dollars.
http://beta.humugus.com/index.php/auth/register/inv/1966
On the black screen
I sense an apotheosis approaching.
Attention all passengers: prepare for the denoument.
Also, I want to back to the original beta.
You know, when the game was actually fun and suppression units were worth more than shit.
http://beta.humugus.com/index.php/auth/register/inv/1966
Relic is a bunch of tricksters. Making me think it would stay fun with the beta and then ruining it days after I pre-ordered but promising to fix it by retail.
Suppression units suppressed very quickly and units in the suppression if they didn't retreat would be killed very quickly as well. Making them quite worth while and requiring hard counters to really deal with. You could not just run up to a suppression weapon and destroy it for example.
This is back before the retail.
I've still found no version of the game more fun and interesting than that beta.
Well, that and the game. But also: silence.
On the black screen
I'm not bitching because I lost a squad, just that the lethality of melee units is like they come from an entirely different game to the ranged ones.
https://medium.com/@alascii
By shooting at them.
Shocking I know.
The words "hard counters" lose meaning when you realize there's no hard counter to a spam. Three guardians wipe out infantry in seconds at no power cost. Then you just tech straight up and blow your power on whatever you want because you have a huge stock pile of it.
After our disaster yesterday, Dalzi, DoA and myself turned to the dark side and played a couple of games like complete dickheaded dickheads. The first was against people pretty much playing their first game. If they play a second one, I'll be surprised. The next game was against a TS 28/29 team which should have made for a close game, except we all picked Lictor. None of us play nids, but we made the other team look completely fucking ordinary. It was a joke how easy it was. I built two squads of Horms (for three total) and gave them the AG upgrade. The next unit I built was a Screamer-Killer and there was hardly anything left for it to shoot at. We'd completely crushed the enemy team with a handful of squads of the basic fucking unit. I could have sleepwalked to victory. I think we wanted to kill ourselves when the match ended, it was a complete horrorshow.
GJ relic. Ought to teach them NOT to buff units "as compensation for nerfing terribly OP units" like rippers. It's a terrible idea. Nerf what's OP and leave it at fucking that. No unnecessary compensations. No buffing up terms to OP status should you nerf AG Horms. Don't. It will never end like this.
Well, there are new modes coming. Probably defend missions against NPC controlled tyranids (the tyranids that build more than 1-2 different units).
On another note, Scouts.
As much as I hate Scout spam, I still think Scouts on their own a) don't fulfil their role of anti-melee very well at all, and b) have a lot of power-demanding upgrades for one of the most fragile units on the game.
And honestly, I think they should give them grenades by default, and possibly give Infiltration to the Sargeant rather than have it as a third t1 power sink that few people use. As it is, scouts can push back one melee squad per shotgun upgrade. This doesn't deal a great deal of damage; the actual countering of the squad is left to supporting units. So for example, whereas melee units counter Tacs or Shootas should they meet in a skirmish, Scouts will always lose despite being the 'anti-melee' unit of SM.
Giving them grenades by default while keeping them as fragile units would at least help resolve this because 'nades actually are anti-melee when used well, meaning that without power requiring upgrades, they would counter what they're supposed to damn well counter. The power upgrade (i.e. shotgun) would make them better at it, surprise, surprise, like how most of the power upgrades work for the other units' basic roles. And at the same time, if they're kept fragile, since most ranged units counter scouts nicely, they shouldn't become an anti-everything unit.
On one further note, has anyone seen a Waaagh banner in multiplayer? I mean ever?
Pop cost is rather high (5). Takes 15 sec to build, destroyed quickly and is 75 req. And a great way to feed the opponent 25 zeal. 6% less incoming damage (normal and courage), 6% more damage, speed + 0.25, radius of 40. Not sure if it stacks with multiple banners.
I mean it's not perfect but it's better.
[edit]The most infuriating thing about DOW2 is that a lot of the issues could be put into a more manageable state if Relic would only man up and put in hard caps. Literally the only people who will care are the people who play to each imbalance in each race in every patch; the people who were spamming Tacs in 1.3, and are currently spamming AG Horms.
I saw a Waaagh banner recently but I think it was only under construction and I remember winning the game pretty easily. Back in 1.3 I played 2v2 where a Mekboy spammed Waaagh banners, maybe as many as 12 on one screen. Needless to say it didn't work.
They do stack with eachothers. They still don't do anything in the current version however. If you could actually build them within a reasonable window of time along with a reduction to 50 req maybe.