The Bitching About Bad Comics Thread

Futt Bucker

I would have to say that Quiver was quite good but The Sounds of Violence was mediocre. I thought Guardian Devil was the lamest thing ever.

KidDork

Again I find myself in the unsettling position of agreeing with Crimsondude.

It's my opinion that Kevin Smith only gets comic work for two reasons:

1) He's buddies with the editors at Marvel and DC, who let their fanboy tendencies override their job description of providing good, saleable comics to their customers. The fact that his scripts are over-written is proof that his editors take a hands-off approach.

2) There is an assumption that since Smith is a comic geek, allegedly like us, that we will pick up anything he does. ( Hey, it's that Clerks guy! He's doing Daredevil! FUCKAWESOME!)That there is a large Kevin Smith fanbase that will support his work regardless of quality, because we're all stoners, living in our parent's basement, and whatever, dude.

I avoid his stuff like H1N1.

Balefuego

There's a third reason.

His comics sell lots and lots of copies.

KidDork

Sadly, they do. And I guess that's all that matters.

wirehead26

Wasn't his last Batman book something of a sales disappointment? Not to mention a critical one as well?

Balefuego

I mean say what you want about the stories themselves but I'm not sure people remember how marginalized Green Arrow and Daredevil were before Smith relaunched them.

If nothing else I'm thankful for Guardian Devil if only for giving us the Bendis/Maleev run (and subsequently Brubaker/Lark)

Crimsondude

Balefuego wrote: »

There's a third reason.

His comics sell lots and lots of copies.

This is the only real reason.

The Lovely Bastard

Me Too! wrote: »

The Lovely Bastard wrote: »

oh and kevin smith has never written a single good comic book ever

Hey fuck you Guardian Devil and the first two arcs of Green Arrow owned pretty goddamn hard

no they didn't

at all

Faynor

I realize this is from last page, but I kind of like Dark Beast. I think rather than thinking of him as genius unrestrained by morality, it's more interesting to think of him as Hank unrestrained by morality. Seeing them side by side is sort of shocking.

But enough about that. Something I hate about comics? The stigma. "Oh, you read comics?"

They need to make a Wii in comic book form so they can become mainstream.

The Lovely Bastard

faynor you are not supposed to like good things


stop liking dark beast right now

Faynor

Dark Beast is great! Dazzler is cool! I have accepted US Agent as my lord and savior!

[tiny]One of these things isn't true.[/tiny]

Robos A Go Go

I think we can all agree that comics need more giant monsters like Fing Fang Foom and Godzilla.

Faynor

Never were words so true spoken, Robos.

Sentry

Faynor wrote: »

I realize this is from last page, but I kind of like Dark Beast. I think rather than thinking of him as genius unrestrained by morality, it's more interesting to think of him as Hank unrestrained by morality. Seeing them side by side is sort of shocking.

But enough about that. Something I hate about comics? The stigma. "Oh, you read comics?"

They need to make a Wii in comic book form so they can become mainstream.

See, that would only be interesting if Beast shared any real characteristics with Dark Beast besides his name. He just doesn't. Even when they tried to show him pushing the envelope to find the cure for Decimation in Endangered Species, he barely got close to any such line. And seriously, his morals are so flexible anyway depending on the writer (see what he did in the X-Men arc of Secret Invasion) that he could hardly be called Dark Beast's opposite.

Robos A Go Go

Most of the time, an evil counterpart is evil "just because" rather than because of some event or experience that could conceivably have warped them. Without a justification for their behavior, the counterparts just don't make sense as characters, and so they're poorly suited for recurring roles.

The Lovely Bastard

Faynor wrote: »

Dark Beast is great! Dazzler is cool! I have accepted US Agent as my lord and savior!

[tiny]One of these things is extra true.[/tiny]

Anjin-San

say what you will, guardian devil and quiver brought two characters back from the shit abyss

Hensler

When Dark Beast sealed Hank in the walls and then went to his hometown are started killing all his old friends, I thought he was going to be a good villain. But then he started trying to eat Gen X or some shit and became a hairier version of Mr. Sinister.

Robos A Go Go

Did Smith bring anything new to characters, though, or did he just happen to be the guy who started their return to the mainstream? Sure he killed Karen Page, but anyone could have done that.

The Lovely Bastard

Anjin-San wrote: »

say what you will, guardian devil and quiver brought two characters back from the shit abyss

decapitating ultron with a stick is not the abyss at all

TexiKen

That....that was 100 issues before DD went into the tank (and even then those Joe Kelly issues were very fun, DD for once didn't have his world shattered every 5 minutes).

If anyone ever speaks bad of the Nocenti/JRjr run they no next to nothing about anything anywhere.

Balefuego

Robos A Go Go wrote: »

Did Smith bring anything new to characters, though, or did he just happen to be the guy who started their return to the mainstream? Sure he killed Karen Page, but anyone could have done that.

Smith brought his name and noteriety.

Smith relaunching Daredevil was a huge deal.

The Lovely Bastard

the ultron thing is the Nocenti run

and it was early 90's

sucka

The Lovely Bastard

ain't no hundred issues then chump

TexiKen

Acts of Vengeance was in '89. And Nocenti's stuff was mostly 1987 to the first months of 1990. DD went into the abyss with issue #380.

DD beating Ultron in Acts of Vengeance was #275-276.

100 issues prior.

And what I'm saying is that DD beating all those Ultrons is not bad comics. It's awesome. DD also fought Mephisto and Blackheart, you all know nothing!

Served

The Lovely Bastard

dangit stop knowing so much about daredevil

The Lovely Bastard

also I could have sworn acts of vengeance was 1990

The Lovely Bastard

also also who the hell knows that much about daredevil

who

TexiKen

DD's issues were the tail end of '89.

I just checked those issues, and DD #276, in that stupid legal mumbo jumbo on the first page says it had a publication date of January 1990. But those things are always 2-3 months ahead, especially back in the before time, the long long ago.

Robos A Go Go

How does Daredevil fight Mephisto? By praying really hard?

Bob Slidel

Robos A Go Go wrote: »

Did Smith bring anything new to characters, though, or did he just happen to be the guy who started their return to the mainstream? Sure he killed Karen Page, but anyone could have done that.

Smith brought a lot to Green Arrow. He introduced the new speedy and made him much more dynamic. Plus his writing of GA and Hawkman in Sounds of Violence was just fantastic.

"Ollie, the ancient egyptians have a word for guys like you"

"Oh yeah, whats that?"

"Schmuck"

If you don't just hate Kevin Smith arbitrarily, you really have to appreciate his writing in Green Arrow.

"I don't know about the men, but you sure are making me merry."

Classic.

The Lovely Bastard

that hawkman dialogue is awful and not hawkman like at all

Robos A Go Go

That doesn't sound like the Ancient Egyptians either!

The Lovely Bastard

robos come on now

Sentry

Smith's Green Arrow arguably saved the character and is a very well accepted contribution. Far be it from me to accuse TLB of having a bias but...

The Lovely Bastard

I am not biased

as I like Kevin Smith's movies

and I like Green Arrow

but Kevin Smith cannot write characters to save his life

and when they are characters he didn't even create he fails spectacularly

dialogue? yes

characters? no

Bob Slidel

The Lovely Bastard wrote: »

that hawkman dialogue is awful and not hawkman like at all

Come on, its Hawkman who really cares? He's a guy with some wings and a mace. There is nothing all that interesting about his character.

"I'm an ancient egyptian/ alien. I'm reborn every time I die. I'm strong and I can fly with the help of my wings/ wing harness. I get retconned pretty regularly since no one gives a damn about me. My wife doesn't remember me anymore and it makes me sad. However, I did tap Power Girl."

Spoiler:

I got beat to death with my own damned mace by a guy whose only power is the ability to stretch, whom I have fought alongside for decades and should have figured out how to beat, or at least had some kind of clue as to how to fight against. By the way, I didn't even land a blow. He pretty much crushed my skull without opposition.

Did I miss anything?

The Lovely Bastard

he's a flying barbarian

he ain't gonna be witty

ever

Robos A Go Go

To be fair, that line wasn't very witty.

The Lovely Bastard

touche