Craigslist deal gone bad, now I'm being harassed

T-bolt

I sold an old (1981) Korg synthesizer last week through Craigslist. I answered a guy's WTB ad. I was up front about it's minor issues (some key contacts didn't work all the time), I let him try it out and didn't pressure him, and I even let him open it up to take a look inside. Through talking with him he seemed to know what he was getting into with buying old used synths, as it can be a crapshoot concerning the instrument's reliability. I sold it for $500, the same I paid for it over a year ago.

This Friday I get an email from him where he claims that it doesn't tune correctly anymore and he demanded that I pay the full cost to have it fixed or give him his money back. I replied back saying that there was no warranty, and the sale was final. He replies back that if I don't pay him then he'd take me to small claims court and that he would win. I call his bluff, I said no, and that I had his number and I'd file harrasment charges with the police if need be.

He replies back with a "go ahead and call the cops, funny". Yesterday, he emails again and says that the synth has now gone completely dead and asked me when I'd be available the next day to "make the exchange". I don't reply to this. He's now emailed me today saying if I don't contact him back he'll assume that I'm ok with paying to have it fixed and that I'll be in touch with the repair shop about the cost. He also reiterated that either I pay him directly or he gets the money through small claims court, either way he's sure he'll win.

My friends think he's just trying to coerce me to pay up and when I don't he's all talk and he'll just give up. That's likely but there's the chance he'll take it a step further because he unfortunately knows where I live. I'm pretty sure he doesn't have a leg to stand on concerning small claims court as it was a cash transaction without any written or implied warranty, but I want him off my back now (without giving him what he wants). Right now I'm mulling over going through with my threat to call the cops because he's not taking no for an answer. Opinions?

jhunter46

Did you tell him about the issues via email? If you have a written exchange of that, you should be covered regardless. Just ignore him.

Improvolone

You re so in the right its not even funny. He can't do anything. Besides that, it wouldn't hurt to contact the police. Call the non-emergency line and get a written record of this. They don't mind, it's their job. Let him know you've filed a report. This way he knows you are probably a bit serious on the matter and if he does do something stupid because he knows where you live, hey, a police report connects him.

The "if I don't hear back from you, I'll assume you are okay with paying the repair bill" is a bullshit line. My first thought was "imagine if you were him, wouldn't you be pissed having just lost $500? Maybe you should give him $100 back to be a nice guy, if he did indeed buy something that is so much worse than he though." But no, the guy is acting like a total douche bag and you should do him no favors.

Fuck knows what he's done to the thing to "fix" it since its "just gone dead", you know, randomly and all.

PeregrineFalcon

Improvolone wrote: »

You re so in the right its not even funny. He can't do anything. Besides that, it wouldn't hurt to contact the police. Call the non-emergency line and get a written record of this. They don't mind, it's their job.

The "if I don't hear back from you, I'll assume you are okay with paying the repair bill" is a bullshit line. My first thought was "imagine if you were him, wouldn't you be pissed having just lost $500? Maybe you should give him $100 back to be a nice guy, if he did indeed buy something that is so much worse than he though." But no, the guy is acting like a total douche bag and you should do him no favors.

Fuck knows what he's done to the thing to "fix" it since its "just gone dead", you know, randomly and all.

Yep. If he'd been nicer about it, I could see helping him out a bit. But if he's going to be a raging douche, just cut contact and let the police know "Hey, this guy's being a raging douche, and he might do something dumb. Just wanted you guys to know in case I end up calling you later to report a bleeding/dead raging douche on my front lawn."

matt has a problem

The cops won't do anything. He hasn't threatened you, outside of threatening legal action. And you're right, he doesn't have a leg to stand on, you didn't misrepresent the item and he bought it as-is, no warranty. You owe him nothing. And no repair shop in their right mind would bill someone else on the word of the person bringing the instrument in. The only thing you'll have to worry about is showing up to small claims court, if he does go that route, which I doubt he will, since it costs money to file a claim.

Improvolone

Calling the cops wouldn't be to get them to do something, calling the cops would be to get a legitimate paper work trail made and to get this guy's name on it. It's called covering your ass when shit happens. Calling the police is not a bad thing.

Bob Slidel

If you told him that it had some problems, and didn't hold anything back, you should be covered. I just took a legal environment of business class where we talked a lot about warranties and such. This guy couldn't win in small claims court. He purchased it as is, knowing that it had issues. Getting the police involved is probably a good idea, as would informing him that you have no problem filing a counter- suit for harassment.

Or, just ignore the idiot. He will eventually give up.

TexiKen

What everyone else has said is spot on.

One thing I would do is, if you think he might do something to your house or apartment just to get even, tell your neighbors to watch out for (insert make and model car) in the neighborhood.

Shade

PeregrineFalcon wrote: »

Improvolone wrote: »

You re so in the right its not even funny. He can't do anything. Besides that, it wouldn't hurt to contact the police. Call the non-emergency line and get a written record of this. They don't mind, it's their job.

The "if I don't hear back from you, I'll assume you are okay with paying the repair bill" is a bullshit line. My first thought was "imagine if you were him, wouldn't you be pissed having just lost $500? Maybe you should give him $100 back to be a nice guy, if he did indeed buy something that is so much worse than he though." But no, the guy is acting like a total douche bag and you should do him no favors.

Fuck knows what he's done to the thing to "fix" it since its "just gone dead", you know, randomly and all.

Yep. If he'd been nicer about it, I could see helping him out a bit. But if he's going to be a raging douche, just cut contact and let the police know "Hey, this guy's being a raging douche, and he might do something dumb. Just wanted you guys to know in case I end up calling you later to report a bleeding/dead raging douche on my front lawn."

Save all the emails and contact stuff and always be polite. If he tries to take it to court it'll take a few minutes for the judge to look it over then tell him to stuff it. And no matter what BE POLITE.

T-bolt

Thanks for the advice guys.

In the two emails I unfortunately had some strong language, but I didn't resort to insults. I was just extremely angry that this guy was trying to coerce me to pay as if it was my responsibility since he seemed to know what he was getting into. A friend thinks he might have thought I'd be a pushover as I'm a somewhat quiet person around strangers.

I think I will go to the police tomorrow, and not reply to him. If he sends another email I'll just have more ammunition if this actually goes to small claims court.

Shadowfire

Improvolone wrote: »

The "if I don't hear back from you, I'll assume you are okay with paying the repair bill" is a bullshit line.

It is also not valid in contract law... just sayin.

Thanatos

I would e-mail him one final time and say "the synth was provided as-is, with no warranty whatsoever. The deal is done, I'm not giving you any money or paying for anything. If you attempt to contact me any more, I'm going to consider it harassment, and go to the police. Have a nice day."

The Black Hunter

It sounds like he does this often

Liquid Hellz

Read stories about where people buy things like this and have an exact non-working replica they will try to trade back a few days later. This could be his m/o.

tsmvengy

Thanatos wrote: »

I would e-mail him one final time and say "the synth was provided as-is, with no warranty whatsoever. The deal is done, I'm not giving you any money or paying for anything. If you attempt to contact me any more, I'm going to consider it harassment, and go to the police. Have a nice day."

This.

CoJoeTheLawyer

Thanatos wrote: »

I would e-mail him one final time and say "the synth was provided as-is, with no warranty whatsoever. The deal is done, I'm not giving you any money or paying for anything. If you attempt to contact me any more, I'm going to consider it harassment, and go to the police. Have a nice day."

This about covers my 0.02.

All of his nonsense about him contacting a repair shop and you footing the bill, taking you to small-claims court et. al. is just that. Don’t sweat it.

However, as a word of caution for future Craiglists transactions, make sure you state in the ad that everything you sell is "as-is, no warranties, caveat emptor, etc., etc." That way, when someone has a problem with what they bought from you, they can't say they did not have advanced notice.

King Kong

Just an FYI. I love me some craigslist and have used it in LOTS of dealings. Just always follow this rule, never have someone meet at your house. I know sometimes this can't be helped (I've sold beds with box spring, car body parts) but really have a spot picked to do transactions at like a mall parking lot etc.

Sheep

He inspected it. He liked what he saw. He bought it.

Most likely the guy is just trying to scam you for cash. Happens to me via eBay from time to time.

Wulf

Sheep wrote: »

He inspected it. He liked what he saw. He bought it.

Most likely the guy is just trying to scam you for cash. Happens to me via eBay from time to time.

This 100%. I'm still shocked that there is anyone left on Craigslist but these people scamming each-other in an Ouroboros-ian cycle.

Figgy

King Kong wrote: »

Just an FYI. I love me some craigslist and have used it in LOTS of dealings. Just always follow this rule, never have someone meet at your house. I know sometimes this can't be helped (I've sold beds with box spring, car body parts) but really have a spot picked to do transactions at like a mall parking lot etc.

Inside the mall is a better idea. I know a guy who got robbed at knife point when he set up a meeting to sell his Macbook Pro in a mall parking lot.

"Hey, my car is over here. Let me get the money."

Three other guys jump out with masks.

Scrublet

Figgy wrote: »

King Kong wrote: »

Just an FYI. I love me some craigslist and have used it in LOTS of dealings. Just always follow this rule, never have someone meet at your house. I know sometimes this can't be helped (I've sold beds with box spring, car body parts) but really have a spot picked to do transactions at like a mall parking lot etc.

Inside the mall is a better idea. I know a guy who got robbed at knife point when he set up a meeting to sell his Macbook Pro in a mall parking lot.

"Hey, my car is over here. Let me get the money."

Three other guys jump out with masks.

Yea honestly I wouldn't meet someone anywhere except where it'd be extremely difficult to pull anything no matter how ballsy or stupid the guy is. Somewhere that eyewitnesses aren't just possible, but are guaranteed to see what's going on. This gets harder with audio stuff because you generally want to try it out before you buy it, but I would try to find a way to go SOMEWHERE besides your own house.

Figgy

I use the mall food court for most things. For big ticket items (1000+) I have someone I know sitting a few tables away as a secret spy :P

Sheep

I actually have gone to peoples houses on craigslist ads.

But then again, I'm not a scum bag and it was always homes in suburbia.

Kyanilis

For craigslist I always bring someone else along. Not "secret spy" type of thing, just someone else along, which should basically be standard procedure. People are shady and I don't trust em.

ChillyWilly

Kyanilis wrote: »

For craigslist I always bring someone else along. Not "secret spy" type of thing, just someone else along, which should basically be standard procedure. People are shady and I don't trust em.

DTA, mutthafucka.

I trust my friends and my family. Past that, I assume that most people are generally out for themselves in every situation. Especially when it's the internet and you can't see the person, hear their voice or have any means of really judging what kind of person they are.

jhunter46

Sheep wrote: »

I actually have gone to peoples houses on craigslist ads.

But then again, I'm not a scum bag and it was always homes in suburbia.

With a secret sex basement/reading room.

I always meet someone somewhere in public. Costco parking lot or the like.

T-bolt

Well the police were no help, even after he sent me yet another email threatening to go to my landlord to get my information. She does not legally have to tell him anything, but I don't want to risk him doing anything when he doesn't get what he wants from her. I told him to quit contacting me, he's not welcome on my apartment complex and the police will be called if he does, and just go through small claims court. He still has the nerve to reply back saying that he'll still have to contact me because he's taking me to small claims, he'll of course win, then I'll have to give him his money and he expects to be paid promptly. I really want this guy to be punished for his behaviour but it seems the only way I can do that is to get a lawyer and counter-sue (thus still costing me $$$).

I'd love to do all transactions in a public place, but as was already said then it couldn't be tested out. I know I wouldn't buy any electronics I couldn't test first. I think I'll just avoid Craigslist instead.

Trillian

In small claims court the judge might hit him for punitive damages to keep him from acting like a big fat dickwad again, especially if he's done this more than once. You could post on craigslist to track down some other people he's bought stuff from and see if he's done this before.

Djeet

Not surprised the cops weren't much help as this guy isn't really doing anything other then being a twat. Talk to your apartment manager and explain that this guy is harassing you and you would like them not to share your personal information with him (most likely they aren't supposed to anyways).

Ideally your last communcations with him was something to the effect of what Thanatos recommended. After that if you receive emails/voicemails from him do not respond. If there are threats to your person or property then talk to the cops. Don't delete messages from him.

If he does try to bring you to small claims court it is not his responsibility to inform you of dick. Some 3rd party would serve you (at his expense). Don't get hung up on punishing this guy, you will likely do something stupid or costly. There's nothing to be gained by you continuing any kind of dialogue with this guy; do not rise to his bait.

Craigslist is fine for unloading stuff, there are a bunch of idiots on it though. In the future, try to figure out if the guy you're talking to is an idiot, and if so just don't deal with him: it's more trouble then it's worth.

CoJoeTheLawyer

T-bolt wrote: »

Well the police were no help, even after he sent me yet another email threatening to go to my landlord to get my information. She does not legally have to tell him anything, but I don't want to risk him doing anything when he doesn't get what he wants from her. I told him to quit contacting me, he's not welcome on my apartment complex and the police will be called if he does, and just go through small claims court. He still has the nerve to reply back saying that he'll still have to contact me because he's taking me to small claims, he'll of course win, then I'll have to give him his money and he expects to be paid promptly. I really want this guy to be punished for his behaviour but it seems the only way I can do that is to get a lawyer and counter-sue (thus still costing me $$$).

I'd love to do all transactions in a public place, but as was already said then it couldn't be tested out. I know I wouldn't buy any electronics I couldn't test first. I think I'll just avoid Craigslist instead.

The next time he e-mails you, I would respond with something along the lines of you're never getting any money back, and if you don't like it, I'll see you in court. Leave it at that.

The thing about these particular type of jag-off is that he is all B.S., and a great way to get him to leave you alone is to call the bluff. Maybe he would win in court, maybe he wouldn't (I'm going to lean strongly towards no), but if he never actually files a complaint in court, it doesn't really matter. If he really was going to file a complaint, he would have by now, instead he’s pissing and moaning at you in hopes he’ll find a sore spot and you’ll fold and give him the money.

T-bolt

Djeet wrote: »

Craigslist is fine for unloading stuff, there are a bunch of idiots on it though. In the future, try to figure out if the guy you're talking to is an idiot, and if so just don't deal with him: it's more trouble then it's worth.

See, appearances can be deceiving. When we were making the deal, he seemed like a somewhat reasonable middle-aged guy who just wanted to relive a bit of his youth with a synthesizer he used in the 80's . If he actually came anywhere near me I'm sure I could outrun him (or probably kick his ass), but that's a moot point if he draws a weapon.

Iron Weasel

I wouldn't really start worrying about whether or not you're going to have to fight this person.

Definately speak to your landlord about the situation and ask them not to share your personal information with anyone without your consent (as someon else has mentioned, this is supposed to be their position by default).

I also agree with the other posters who are encouraging you to call this call on his bluff. He says he'll take you to court? Tell him that you'll see him there, and leave it at that.

Ths guy had a chance to inspect the item you sold him, and he agreed that it was in good enough condition for him to buy. Frmo what you've said, there was never any mention of a refund should he decide he was unhappy with his purchase, so he's out of luck.

I really wouldn't stress this very much. Most likely he's full of hot air. Even is he does try to take you to court, his position is not very strong.

Cptn Pants

Just respond back: "Look, I'm done with you... I will not be responding to anymore emails from you. If you want to go to court that is fine, go file a charge and I'll see you there, but I will still not respond to any emails from you. I have also informed my landlord about you and she will not be giving out any information about any of her tenants. That is all I have to say to you, good bye."

Then, do not respond to any more emails. If you get a letter from small claims court then go and have fun winning.

TL DR

At this point, do not respond to any of his communications. You've already said what you need to say, and continuing to engage him can only hurt you. If he keeps it up or actually shows his face around you or your property, contact the police again and pursue a restraining order.

Erandus

Timothy Leary Come Check Out This Theory wrote: »

At this point, do not respond to any of his communications.

Seriously. Stop emailing, block his number, whatever you have to do.

Improvolone

Calling the cops was not to "get help", it was to get a report filed to have paper work exist. Now, if the cops said "tough shit we won't even fill out a report about you being harassed", then they were no help and something is so horribly horribly wrong.

T-bolt

Nope, could not fill out a report. The guy actually has to show up on the property for them to care.

I've already told him before he can go to small claims court if he wishes, and I've asked him to stop contacting me. I've said all I need to say, and I'll keep any future e-mails to present at court. I'll be sure to present the ludicrous claims he says I owe him (including the gem of him charging me $50 per hour for his time spent on this).

CrossBuster

This guy sounds like a blowhard and a liar. If it does go to court, I'd say you have little to worry about.

I don't know where you live, but in most U.S. states, you aren't allowed to bring a lawyer into small claims court. As such, many courts have free classes or other sources of information that can help parties with their case. I don't think they'll give you legal advice, but they can usually give legal information. Going in with enough knowledge of the relevant law to craft a coherent legal argument will be really helpful, especially if the buyer goes in and just repeats the nonsense he's been spouting to you.

And yeah, the $50/hour charge he's threatening you with is such BS it's not even funny.

Of course, if this guy takes you to court and loses, he might not be the type to just let it go, and could resort to self-help. Just something to be aware of, but I wouldn't worry too much. It sounds like he's just blowing smoke out his ass.

T-bolt

I live in BC, Canada.

You are allowed to bring a lawyer to small claims court here, but you are not allowed to include their fees in the damages.

Kris_xK

T-bolt wrote: »

I live in BC, Canada.

You are allowed to bring a lawyer to small claims court here, but you are not allowed to include their fees in the damages.

Ugh, RCMP. No wonder they were completly useless.

Iron Weasel

T-bolt wrote: »

Nope, could not fill out a report. The guy actually has to show up on the property for them to care.

I've already told him before he can go to small claims court if he wishes, and I've asked him to stop contacting me. I've said all I need to say, and I'll keep any future e-mails to present at court. I'll be sure to present the ludicrous claims he says I owe him (including the gem of him charging me $50 per hour for his time spent on this).

If this goes all the way to court, be sure to show up with your counter-suit at $150 per hour for your lost time