Every codex has stuff that may seem "cheesy" or "broken."
Hell, every codex has stuff that is cheesy or broken. Maybe not Necrons or DE, but certainly everyone else.
I would like to play the DE or Necron opponents you've played :P
Monolith Spam? Combat Drugs? 30+ Dark Lances in a list? :P
I've never played against DE. If the Necron is taking three monoliths phase-out shouldn't be terribly difficult.
A Dark Eldar player who knows what he is doing can build the cheesiest lists in the game, hands down. I have faced some ridiculous shit... only even came close to beating it once.
On the other hand, though, a Dark Eldar player who doesn't know what he is doing will get eaten alive
@Captain Scurby: if you think Lance's Daemon army is full of rape, you should play his DE sometime... Its a pretty horrible experience.
Nax on
The following people are amazing and I love them: Wildcat, Timspork, Kias, Denada, susan, Sharp101, [GHSC]Ryctor, Matev, Matrias, ItBurns, Slapnuts, Dayspring, see317, and the unknown poster that sent me a box of Death Company! If you get them as Santees you should buy them amazing things!
I'm saying that it's very easy for Guard to build a very durable list that throws more pie-plates downrange than can be reasonably managed without screwing yourself against a horde army. I'm not a tourney gamer per se, but I do tend to look at things from a tourney environment, and right now the need to cope with both IG Armored Companies and Horde Orks would throw me into fits. Take a bunch of missile launchers and flamers and pray, I guess.
Honest to God, if you're playing marines, just take a balanced army that tends towards the horde-killing aspect (take missiles instead of heavy bolters), and you'll do fine against even armored companies a lot of the time, as long as you bought yourself the mobility to get up close to them.
Missile Launchers can't kill Land Raiders, which are frighteningly common in my local meta.
Which I guess doesn't mean much, since nothing kills Land Raiders save for Multimeltas.
Missile Launchers can immobilize a Raider.. which, is certain circumstances is just as good for me. I would MUCH rather weather 2 Lascannon shots a turn than have a Raider crash into my lines and let loose a squad of assault terminators.
If its a LRC, an immobilize result cripples it, since all of its weaponry has 24" range.
As for a Russ.. A missile launcher can tear off a battle cannon, which is just fine with me :P
Nax on
The following people are amazing and I love them: Wildcat, Timspork, Kias, Denada, susan, Sharp101, [GHSC]Ryctor, Matev, Matrias, ItBurns, Slapnuts, Dayspring, see317, and the unknown poster that sent me a box of Death Company! If you get them as Santees you should buy them amazing things!
I'm saying that it's very easy for Guard to build a very durable list that throws more pie-plates downrange than can be reasonably managed without screwing yourself against a horde army. I'm not a tourney gamer per se, but I do tend to look at things from a tourney environment, and right now the need to cope with both IG Armored Companies and Horde Orks would throw me into fits. Take a bunch of missile launchers and flamers and pray, I guess.
Honest to God, if you're playing marines, just take a balanced army that tends towards the horde-killing aspect (take missiles instead of heavy bolters), and you'll do fine against even armored companies a lot of the time, as long as you bought yourself the mobility to get up close to them.
Missile Launchers can't kill Land Raiders, which are frighteningly common in my local meta.
Which I guess doesn't mean much, since nothing kills Land Raiders save for Multimeltas.
Do people only play marines where you live?
It's most common. Most of them cut their teeth on CCGs, as well, so they go up to Dakka and find something stupid like Lysander & three units of Assault Termies in three Land Raiders, and then destroy everyone. I don't really know why I keep playing, but whatever.
Also missile launchers don't kill any of the Russ variants.
Who said anything about AV14? Missile launchers are free, and they're for killing hordes and dedicated transports, not LRBTs or LRs. Meltas are for Land Raiders and krak grenades are for Leman Russ'.
Krack missiles into the side armor of a leman are very entertaining.
This actually brings back up one of my gripes about the new rules though; necrons have greatly diminished anti vehicle capabilities. The -2 on all of my glance rolls means that my capacity to stop a dread barrelling out of cover is pretty poor, and stopping russ line from face raping me? Good fucking luck.
When they get updated in 2010-2011, I really hope this gets adressed
Yeah, the guys I play are helpful too. My last game I played against Space Marines. The first time I played against SM, and I don't have the new SM codex. He drop-podded in my back and for a turn, his tac squad was around the pod. I fired into the squad (killed one) but they were then left free to cause havoc at my back. The vet ork player who was watching asked me why I didn't try to take out the drop pod and explode it, thus causing the SM squad more trouble. I calmly exclaimed: "That thing is a vehicle and not terrain when on the board?? Eff!" This was not helped by the fact the SM player didn't fire the storm bolter from the pod until after his squad was clear of it. He said he forgot. I call crafty.
Everyone laughed and laughed. Nah, the guys are cool. It's just easy to feel very novice around the veterans. They are probably more patient than what I give them credit for.
First, you were right to shoot the squad :P You've got a 1/3 chance (unless you're firing a melta, which I doubt) to get an explosion on the pod. That would be a Str3 hit on the marines. You would need 5's to wound, and he'd have his 3+ saves.
The Ork player no doubt suggested it, because its been done to him before.. but you're FAR more likely to wound an ork in an exterior explosion. Str3 vs T3 is 4's to hit, and he's got 6+ saves.
Yeah, the guys I play are helpful too. My last game I played against Space Marines. The first time I played against SM, and I don't have the new SM codex. He drop-podded in my back and for a turn, his tac squad was around the pod. I fired into the squad (killed one) but they were then left free to cause havoc at my back. The vet ork player who was watching asked me why I didn't try to take out the drop pod and explode it, thus causing the SM squad more trouble. I calmly exclaimed: "That thing is a vehicle and not terrain when on the board?? Eff!" This was not helped by the fact the SM player didn't fire the storm bolter from the pod until after his squad was clear of it. He said he forgot. I call crafty.
Everyone laughed and laughed. Nah, the guys are cool. It's just easy to feel very novice around the veterans. They are probably more patient than what I give them credit for.
First, you were right to shoot the squad :P You've got a 1/3 chance (unless you're firing a melta, which I doubt) to get an explosion on the pod. That would be a Str3 hit on the marines. You would need 5's to wound, and he'd have his 3+ saves.
The Ork player no doubt suggested it, because its been done to him before.. but you're FAR more likely to wound an ork in an exterior explosion. Str3 vs T3 is 4's to hit, and he's got 6+ saves.
Since when have orks had toughness 3?
Since I accidentally typed 3 instead of 4. Maybe I was thinking of Str. EITHER WAY! Point stands :P
Nax on
The following people are amazing and I love them: Wildcat, Timspork, Kias, Denada, susan, Sharp101, [GHSC]Ryctor, Matev, Matrias, ItBurns, Slapnuts, Dayspring, see317, and the unknown poster that sent me a box of Death Company! If you get them as Santees you should buy them amazing things!
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WulfDisciple of TzeentchThe Void... (New Jersey)Registered Userregular
Niiiiiice. My dice should be here today and I am very excited
Nax on
The following people are amazing and I love them: Wildcat, Timspork, Kias, Denada, susan, Sharp101, [GHSC]Ryctor, Matev, Matrias, ItBurns, Slapnuts, Dayspring, see317, and the unknown poster that sent me a box of Death Company! If you get them as Santees you should buy them amazing things!
1. That's 1345 points.
2. Destroyers aren't particularly good for killing anything but the lightest vehicles.
3. It is obscenely easy to mangle a squad of 3 heavy destroyers
4. It doesn't allow for a monlith, which costs you a shit load of tactical versatility.
5. Your gonna phase out really fast.
6. You have nothing to fend off assaults.
Duh. I'm stupid. I was editing a 2000 point tourney list and cutting things here and there to bring it down to 1500 and I must have forgot about the HQs. They used to have a lot more crap on em, but now that it's just the advisors I'll go ahead and combine em and save 50 points.
That bought me another set of plasma cannon sponsons and emperor's tarot!
there are certain things about other army's lists that are bound to annoy any player
I'm pretty much okay about everything except for new SM, all my griping has to do with them
1. space marine librarians, goddammit your psychic powers should not be that good
2. storm shields, what the fuck a 3+ invulnerable for like 10-15 points, or free on TH termis
1. That's 1345 points.
2. Destroyers aren't particularly good for killing anything but the lightest vehicles.
3. It is obscenely easy to mangle a squad of 3 heavy destroyers
4. It doesn't allow for a monlith, which costs you a shit load of tactical versatility.
5. Your gonna phase out really fast.
6. You have nothing to fend off assaults.
1) Destroyers are good at killing absolutely everything. Each squad gets 15 Str 6 AP4 shots that auto glance on 6s.
2) Monoliths are not that good, though taking 6 heavies and 1 Mono is a pretty good idea.
3) Heavy destroyers are very easy to keep alive, as long as you keep them next to each other, and relatively close to a Destroyer Lord with Orb (which you should have).
4) Nothing to fend off assaults? Did you really think that's the entire army? You're gonna have 2 lords with orbs and warscythes (one of which on destroyer body), and a buncha warriors/immortals as well. If you're expecting to fend off assaults with Necrons, you're doing it wrong.
5) You're not gonna phase out really fast, because it's not the whole army.
Anybody messed around with the Planetstrike terrain yet? I highly recommend picking up at least a bastion, they come with some really cool bits.
Also, /rant Do people honestly believe that Games Workshop doesn't play-test their rules? I was just floating on another forum and there were three pages of people complaining about how no one in Games Workshop even looks at their own books before they print them, while at the same time saying they bought about $200 worth of Planetstrike stuff. Its unbelievable. rant/
Anybody messed around with the Planetstrike terrain yet? I highly recommend picking up at least a bastion, they come with some really cool bits.
Also, /rant Do people honestly believe that Games Workshop doesn't play-test their rules? I was just floating on another forum and there were three pages of people complaining about how no one in Games Workshop even looks at their own books before they print them, while at the same time saying they bought about $200 worth of Planetstrike stuff. Its unbelievable. rant/
I like numbered lists!
1) Planetstrike is awesomesauce in a box
2) The internet is full of idiots: that's why I post here, and not there.
Anybody messed around with the Planetstrike terrain yet? I highly recommend picking up at least a bastion, they come with some really cool bits.
Also, /rant Do people honestly believe that Games Workshop doesn't play-test their rules? I was just floating on another forum and there were three pages of people complaining about how no one in Games Workshop even looks at their own books before they print them, while at the same time saying they bought about $200 worth of Planetstrike stuff. Its unbelievable. rant/
Yeah, the Planetstrike stuff looks pretty cool. And Timspork here is building some kind of fortress world out of it. I have no room for such terrain, so I'm leaving it for people with houses for now.
Did the name of the forum you looked at end with the letters "S-E-E-R" by any chance?
Well, to be fair, I don't really post at all too often. But yes, that is basically the gist of it. Although I haven't tried the rules for it, just the modeling.
there are certain things about other army's lists that are bound to annoy any player
I'm pretty much okay about everything except for new SM, all my griping has to do with them
1. space marine librarians, goddammit your psychic powers should not be that good
2. storm shields, what the fuck a 3+ invulnerable for like 10-15 points, or free on TH termis
argh
I'm really disappointed at the nerfing Libs got since 2nd.
there are certain things about other army's lists that are bound to annoy any player
I'm pretty much okay about everything except for new SM, all my griping has to do with them
1. space marine librarians, goddammit your psychic powers should not be that good
2. storm shields, what the fuck a 3+ invulnerable for like 10-15 points, or free on TH termis
argh
I'm really disappointed at the nerfing Libs got since 2nd.
there are certain things about other army's lists that are bound to annoy any player
I'm pretty much okay about everything except for new SM, all my griping has to do with them
1. space marine librarians, goddammit your psychic powers should not be that good
2. storm shields, what the fuck a 3+ invulnerable for like 10-15 points, or free on TH termis
argh
I'm really disappointed at the nerfing Libs got since 2nd.
(tries to keep straight face)
Hate you so much
And seriously, where did all my virus grenades go?!
I'm upset as to how lame Mephiston is now, in comparison to Codex Libs
Nax on
The following people are amazing and I love them: Wildcat, Timspork, Kias, Denada, susan, Sharp101, [GHSC]Ryctor, Matev, Matrias, ItBurns, Slapnuts, Dayspring, see317, and the unknown poster that sent me a box of Death Company! If you get them as Santees you should buy them amazing things!
1. That's 1345 points.
2. Destroyers aren't particularly good for killing anything but the lightest vehicles.
3. It is obscenely easy to mangle a squad of 3 heavy destroyers
4. It doesn't allow for a monlith, which costs you a shit load of tactical versatility.
5. Your gonna phase out really fast.
6. You have nothing to fend off assaults.
1) Destroyers are good at killing absolutely everything. Each squad gets 15 Str 6 AP4 shots that auto glance on 6s.
2) Monoliths are not that good, though taking 6 heavies and 1 Mono is a pretty good idea.
3) Heavy destroyers are very easy to keep alive, as long as you keep them next to each other, and relatively close to a Destroyer Lord with Orb (which you should have).
4) Nothing to fend off assaults? Did you really think that's the entire army? You're gonna have 2 lords with orbs and warscythes (one of which on destroyer body), and a buncha warriors/immortals as well. If you're expecting to fend off assaults with Necrons, you're doing it wrong.
5) You're not gonna phase out really fast, because it's not the whole army.
Oh, I'm sorry, I assumed that you were talking about a 2000 point list ~since that's about average for most big games~, Which requires 460 additional points to be sunk into minimum force organization, bringing the total up to 1805. But hey you want rez orbs, scythes and a destroyer body too don't you? so in total that comes up to 1935. With 65 points to spare, you can get yourself 3 more warriors or 5 scarab bases.
All of which leaves you with roughly 46 models and a phase out number of about 35. Not hard when you get assaulted by fisting jump marines, shot with battle cannons, out flanked by Genestealers, targeted with plamsa cannon devestator squads or mauled by arco flaggelants.
If Meph had an Invul... even a 5+, I would probably field him every game.
As he is now... I can't bring myself to field him
Nax on
The following people are amazing and I love them: Wildcat, Timspork, Kias, Denada, susan, Sharp101, [GHSC]Ryctor, Matev, Matrias, ItBurns, Slapnuts, Dayspring, see317, and the unknown poster that sent me a box of Death Company! If you get them as Santees you should buy them amazing things!
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Gabriel_Pitt(effective against Russian warships)Registered Userregular
Anybody messed around with the Planetstrike terrain yet? I highly recommend picking up at least a bastion, they come with some really cool bits.
Also, /rant Do people honestly believe that Games Workshop doesn't play-test their rules? I was just floating on another forum and there were three pages of people complaining about how no one in Games Workshop even looks at their own books before they print them, while at the same time saying they bought about $200 worth of Planetstrike stuff. Its unbelievable. rant/
I like numbered lists!
1) Planetstrike is awesomesauce in a box
2) The internet is full of idiots: that's why I post here, and not there.
One thing people very rarely consider is how much time playtesting takes. If GW internet geniuses had things there way, yes, we'd be lucky if we got one codex a year. Just ignoring rules development and testing, you'd end up with something like: IG - make an extreme tank, extreme infantry, and balanced list for 500, 750, 1k, 1.5k, 2k and 3k. Test each list against all other armies. Weigh the results, make alterations to the rules, and try again.
If Meph had an Invul... even a 5+, I would probably field him every game.
As he is now... I can't bring myself to field him
My dearest wish is that Once space wolves get finished the team sits down and cranks out a legit codex for Blood angels for there next imperial codex.
After space wolves I definitley want to see Dark eldar get released. I only ever see there armies once a year or so at my local store.
Edit: also: necrons. I want people who scream at me about how cheesy they are to actually be right and not just enraged at C'tan and monoliths, neither of which HAVE to be beaten to defeat necrons.
The following people are amazing and I love them: Wildcat, Timspork, Kias, Denada, susan, Sharp101, [GHSC]Ryctor, Matev, Matrias, ItBurns, Slapnuts, Dayspring, see317, and the unknown poster that sent me a box of Death Company! If you get them as Santees you should buy them amazing things!
Alright someone is going to have to fill me in as to where people are getting these amazing dice. I can't find the link to them.
Speaking of which, I wasn't able to make up my mind about which die type I wanted, and the chessex bloke was kind enough to make me one of each. Which of the two do y'all like the best so I can narrow down my choices?
The following people are amazing and I love them: Wildcat, Timspork, Kias, Denada, susan, Sharp101, [GHSC]Ryctor, Matev, Matrias, ItBurns, Slapnuts, Dayspring, see317, and the unknown poster that sent me a box of Death Company! If you get them as Santees you should buy them amazing things!
Yeah, the Planetstrike stuff looks pretty cool. And Timspork here is building some kind of fortress world out of it. I have no room for such terrain, so I'm leaving it for people with houses for now.
This is true. Once I manage to put all my IG back on their shelves, I'll get the PS terrain I have to far on the table and take a photo.
Its like "Hey, can you make dice with this on it?"
30 minutes later
"Like this?! <pic>"
Nax on
The following people are amazing and I love them: Wildcat, Timspork, Kias, Denada, susan, Sharp101, [GHSC]Ryctor, Matev, Matrias, ItBurns, Slapnuts, Dayspring, see317, and the unknown poster that sent me a box of Death Company! If you get them as Santees you should buy them amazing things!
Yeah, the Planetstrike stuff looks pretty cool. And Timspork here is building some kind of fortress world out of it. I have no room for such terrain, so I'm leaving it for people with houses for now.
This is true. Once I manage to put all my IG back on their shelves, I'll get the PS terrain I have to far on the table and take a photo.
You should put your Ghosts in front of it, since you told me you'd take pics of them for me and never did :winky:
Nax on
The following people are amazing and I love them: Wildcat, Timspork, Kias, Denada, susan, Sharp101, [GHSC]Ryctor, Matev, Matrias, ItBurns, Slapnuts, Dayspring, see317, and the unknown poster that sent me a box of Death Company! If you get them as Santees you should buy them amazing things!
Posts
A Dark Eldar player who knows what he is doing can build the cheesiest lists in the game, hands down. I have faced some ridiculous shit... only even came close to beating it once.
On the other hand, though, a Dark Eldar player who doesn't know what he is doing will get eaten alive
@Captain Scurby: if you think Lance's Daemon army is full of rape, you should play his DE sometime... Its a pretty horrible experience.
Do people only play marines where you live?
If its a LRC, an immobilize result cripples it, since all of its weaponry has 24" range.
As for a Russ.. A missile launcher can tear off a battle cannon, which is just fine with me :P
Haywire grenades comin' in hot!
It's most common. Most of them cut their teeth on CCGs, as well, so they go up to Dakka and find something stupid like Lysander & three units of Assault Termies in three Land Raiders, and then destroy everyone. I don't really know why I keep playing, but whatever.
Who said anything about AV14? Missile launchers are free, and they're for killing hordes and dedicated transports, not LRBTs or LRs. Meltas are for Land Raiders and krak grenades are for Leman Russ'.
This actually brings back up one of my gripes about the new rules though; necrons have greatly diminished anti vehicle capabilities. The -2 on all of my glance rolls means that my capacity to stop a dread barrelling out of cover is pretty poor, and stopping russ line from face raping me? Good fucking luck.
When they get updated in 2010-2011, I really hope this gets adressed
Since when have orks had toughness 3?
Since I accidentally typed 3 instead of 4. Maybe I was thinking of Str. EITHER WAY! Point stands :P
MORE INQUISITION!
1. That's 1345 points.
2. Destroyers aren't particularly good for killing anything but the lightest vehicles.
3. It is obscenely easy to mangle a squad of 3 heavy destroyers
4. It doesn't allow for a monlith, which costs you a shit load of tactical versatility.
5. Your gonna phase out really fast.
6. You have nothing to fend off assaults.
That bought me another set of plasma cannon sponsons and emperor's tarot!
NEW LIST:
Heavy: Demolisher w/plasma cannon sponsons = 205
Heavy: Manticore = 160
Fast: Vendetta = 130
Fast: Vendetta = 130
Fast: Vendetta = 130
HQ: CCS w/officer of the fleet + astropath = 110
Elite: Marbo = 65
Elite: Inquisitor w/2 mystics + emperor's tarot = 47
Troops: Vets w/3 plasma guns = 115 (probably in Vendetta)
Troops: Vets w/3 plasma guns = 115 (probably in Vendetta)
Troops: Vets w/3 melta guns = 100 (probably in Vendetta)
Total: 1497
I'm pretty much okay about everything except for new SM, all my griping has to do with them
1. space marine librarians, goddammit your psychic powers should not be that good
2. storm shields, what the fuck a 3+ invulnerable for like 10-15 points, or free on TH termis
argh
1) Destroyers are good at killing absolutely everything. Each squad gets 15 Str 6 AP4 shots that auto glance on 6s.
2) Monoliths are not that good, though taking 6 heavies and 1 Mono is a pretty good idea.
3) Heavy destroyers are very easy to keep alive, as long as you keep them next to each other, and relatively close to a Destroyer Lord with Orb (which you should have).
4) Nothing to fend off assaults? Did you really think that's the entire army? You're gonna have 2 lords with orbs and warscythes (one of which on destroyer body), and a buncha warriors/immortals as well. If you're expecting to fend off assaults with Necrons, you're doing it wrong.
5) You're not gonna phase out really fast, because it's not the whole army.
Also, /rant Do people honestly believe that Games Workshop doesn't play-test their rules? I was just floating on another forum and there were three pages of people complaining about how no one in Games Workshop even looks at their own books before they print them, while at the same time saying they bought about $200 worth of Planetstrike stuff. Its unbelievable. rant/
I like numbered lists!
1) Planetstrike is awesomesauce in a box
2) The internet is full of idiots: that's why I post here, and not there.
Yeah, the Planetstrike stuff looks pretty cool. And Timspork here is building some kind of fortress world out of it. I have no room for such terrain, so I'm leaving it for people with houses for now.
Did the name of the forum you looked at end with the letters "S-E-E-R" by any chance?
(tries to keep straight face)
Hate you so much
Oh, I'm sorry, I assumed that you were talking about a 2000 point list ~since that's about average for most big games~, Which requires 460 additional points to be sunk into minimum force organization, bringing the total up to 1805. But hey you want rez orbs, scythes and a destroyer body too don't you? so in total that comes up to 1935. With 65 points to spare, you can get yourself 3 more warriors or 5 scarab bases.
All of which leaves you with roughly 46 models and a phase out number of about 35. Not hard when you get assaulted by fisting jump marines, shot with battle cannons, out flanked by Genestealers, targeted with plamsa cannon devestator squads or mauled by arco flaggelants.
Mephiston still has a very good set of powers for what he's meant to do (Run in and fuck peoples shit up).
The bigger gripe I have with the SM codex, is how it lets vanilla marines by and large match blood angels in assault.
As he is now... I can't bring myself to field him
My dearest wish is that Once space wolves get finished the team sits down and cranks out a legit codex for Blood angels for there next imperial codex.
After space wolves I definitley want to see Dark eldar get released. I only ever see there armies once a year or so at my local store.
Edit: also: necrons. I want people who scream at me about how cheesy they are to actually be right and not just enraged at C'tan and monoliths, neither of which HAVE to be beaten to defeat necrons.
http://www.chessex.com/Dice/Custom_Dice_Home.htm
You are awesome.
Speaking of which, I wasn't able to make up my mind about which die type I wanted, and the chessex bloke was kind enough to make me one of each. Which of the two do y'all like the best so I can narrow down my choices?
Yup :P
@Gabe: I like the silver one
this Chessex guy is awesome nice
haven't dealt with him- yet- but it warms my cold iron heart to see all the help he's giving folks in this thread
This is true. Once I manage to put all my IG back on their shelves, I'll get the PS terrain I have to far on the table and take a photo.
Its like "Hey, can you make dice with this on it?"
30 minutes later
"Like this?! <pic>"
You should put your Ghosts in front of it, since you told me you'd take pics of them for me and never did :winky: