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Let's bitch about quirks in videogame logic!

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Posts

  • HtR-LaserHtR-Laser Registered User
    edited August 2009
    I don't know if this has been brought up, but tangential to the "Why are RPG shopkeepers charging me for items?" question is "Why can I sell my unneeded shit to just about any shopkeeper?" Even "drug stores" will take a 200-kilogram sword and give you some gil, the equivalent of walking into a Wal-Mart and selling advanced military weaponry to the clerk at the counter for some quick cash.

  • BallmanBallman Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    HtR-Laser wrote: »
    I don't know if this has been brought up, but tangential to the "Why are RPG shopkeepers charging me for items?" question is "Why can I sell my unneeded shit to just about any shopkeeper?" Even "drug stores" will take a 200-kilogram sword and give you some gil, the equivalent of walking into a Wal-Mart and selling advanced military weaponry to the clerk at the counter for some quick cash.

    Which is honestly not that unreasonable. :lol: I've heard of people taking the most random shit to Wal-Mart as a "return item".

    JC of DI wrote:
    Mr. G wrote: »
    So, there's a video of Kurt Cobain in [Guitar Hero 5] out. I feel dirty watching this, he just looks wrong.

    Well Cobain's mo-cap session was completely useless, so you can't blame them.
  • artifexiteartifexite Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Not in Arcanum, unless you've trained haggle for some reason.

  • emnmnmeemnmnme Heard about this on conservative radio:Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Let me channel my inner-Seinfeld and ask what's the deal with bottomless pits littering stages in platformers? I can understand that bottomless pits mean instant death since the fall can kill a hero but look at the classics. In Mega Man 2, the pits look to be purposefully carved out of the floor. This wasn't a collapsed structure - the robot masters designed their own damn level to have a bottomless pit in it. And if it's not a bottomless pit, it's a pit decorated with spikes. Spikes are even more preposterous because they're instantly fatal even if you gently brush up against them. There's a huge difference between falling twenty feet on top of a bed of spikes
    Spoiler:
    and ever so gently tiptoeing close and daintily touching a spike with a stray hair and then exploding into a million pieces.

    easybossfight_zps4752c132.gif
  • mr-razzcocksmr-razzcocks Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    emnmnme wrote: »
    Let me channel my inner-Seinfeld and ask what's the deal with bottomless pits littering stages in platformers? I can understand that bottomless pits mean instant death since the fall can kill a hero but look at the classics. In Mega Man 2, the pits look to be purposefully carved out of the floor. This wasn't a collapsed structure - the robot masters designed their own damn level to have a bottomless pit in it. And if it's not a bottomless pit, it's a pit decorated with spikes. Spikes are even more preposterous because they're instantly fatal even if you gently brush up against them. There's a huge difference between falling twenty feet on top of a bed of spikes
    Spoiler:
    and ever so gently tiptoeing close and daintily touching a spike with a stray hair and then exploding into a million pieces.

    This with the spikes bugged the fuck out of me in the early Sonics. In the Mega-Drive/Genesis version, you can accidentally run into the side of them and be fine, but in the Master System and Game Gear version, they might as well kill you just for looking at them

  • DuffelDuffel Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    This has always bothered me about Mario:

    OK, so this mushroom makes me grow to twice my normal size. Whatever, it's magic, I can deal with it. However, if Mario is about the average human height (say, 5'-6'), then that mushroom makes him grow to about ten to twelve feet tall.

    Even this wouldn't be that unusual if Tall Mario wasn't the same height as Princess Toadstool. Is Toadstool some kind of fucking giant? Is she on stilts? Is mario normally a three-foot-dwarf? I know he's supposed to be a little shorter than average but he's not a midget.

    This is further compounded by the fact that Luigi, who is supposed to be a fairly tall dude (even more so than the Princess), grows to twice his regular size, even when the sprites are more than palette swaps and Luigi is clearly supposed to be seen as the taller brother (Mario 2, Mario All-Stars).

  • jclastjclast Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Kor wrote: »
    Halo 3's ragdolls are the best. Shoot someone in the head with the sniper? You bet your ass they're flying backwards about 12 feet or so. Maybe some back slips in there, too.

    Of course, this is just multiplayer. The campaign death animations are actually pretty good.
    I was all sorts of sad when they patched the Falcon Punches out of Halo 3 multiplayer. They were certainly not realistic, but damn it they were entertaining.

    steam_sig.png
  • KrathoonKrathoon Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Duffel wrote: »
    This has always bothered me about Mario:

    OK, so this mushroom makes me grow to twice my normal size. Whatever, it's magic, I can deal with it. However, if Mario is about the average human height (say, 5'-6'), then that mushroom makes him grow to about ten to twelve feet tall.

    Even this wouldn't be that unusual if Tall Mario wasn't the same height as Princess Toadstool. Is Toadstool some kind of fucking giant? Is she on stilts? Is mario normally a three-foot-dwarf? I know he's supposed to be a little shorter than average but he's not a midget.

    This is further compounded by the fact that Luigi, who is supposed to be a fairly tall dude (even more so than the Princess), grows to twice his regular size, even when the sprites are more than palette swaps and Luigi is clearly supposed to be seen as the taller brother (Mario 2, Mario All-Stars).

    I think in the original Super Mario Bros., it was intended for humans to be really small in the Mushroom Kingdom. Later on, they retconned it.

  • emnmnmeemnmnme Heard about this on conservative radio:Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    What the hell is the Mushroom Kingdom? Eight different lands in the first game and seven distinct worlds in the third game. Then there's a dinosaur-themed world in the fourth game and we see no Mushroom Kingdom at all in Mario 64. Just a castle.

    So how much land does Princess Peach govern? :P

    easybossfight_zps4752c132.gif
  • RoshinRoshin My backlog can be seen from space SwedenRegistered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Something that annoys me in FPS-games is that dead bodies and decals (bulletholes in the walls, blast marks, etc) will fade away into thin air. I understand the technical reasons for it, but it still annoys me. There was a mod for the first UT that allowed you to play with fade times yourself and you could set it to "never fade". I was very surprised by how much this added to the experience. The computer would grind to a halt eventually, but it was worth it. :)

    steam_sig.png
  • ArrathArrath Registered User
    edited August 2009
    I made a mod like that for Doom 3 where I changed the despawn time on bullet casings. Made them last several hours.

    I played a custom level that was just swarming in enemies and after a while looking at the floor would just destroy my framerate. One room was host to such a battle that I doubt I would've been able to walk on all those casings, it looked like it would've been akin to walking on marbles.

    At another point I got lost and used my bread-crumb trail of shells to figure out where I hadn't been.

    cj iwakura wrote:
    Making for Oregon is suicide, as DOS games have shown.
  • SkyEyeSkyEye Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Krathoon wrote: »
    I think in the original Super Mario Bros., it was intended for humans to be really small in the Mushroom Kingdom. Later on, they retconned it.

    Ugh. Retcon. The worst kind of logic bending in any fictional universe. On occasion it makes backstory make more sense but more often than not it makes me want to just shoot someone.

    Steam: Autumn_Thunder - SC2: AutumnThundr.563 (NA) - Hearthstone: AutumnThundr.1383

  • Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Mount and Blade: Its generally pretty good about this, but...

    I'm on a horse. Traveling at a good 20 MPH. I hit a guy with a two-handed axe. And he...blocks? HOW?

  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Speaking of which....'bottomless pits'=scary as hell.

    I mean, the assumption is that they are not truly bottomless, simply so deep that Mario is practically liquefied when he hits the ground finally.

    But if they're bottomless. And Mario's just falling. And falling. And falling.

    What a horrible way to get old. Assuming you didn't suffer heart failure or the like, imagine dehydrating at terminal velocity.

    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
  • KorKor Known to detonate from time to time Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Synthesis wrote: »
    Speaking of which....'bottomless pits'=scary as hell.

    I mean, the assumption is that they are not truly bottomless, simply so deep that Mario is practically liquefied when he hits the ground finally.

    But if they're bottomless. And Mario's just falling. And falling. And falling.

    What a horrible way to get old. Assuming you didn't suffer heart failure or the like, imagine dehydrating at terminal velocity.

    Nah, he'd just die in less than 300 seconds anyway... you know... from... expiring.

    >.>

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  • jothkijothki Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    The thing to understand about the Mario games is that there is no single Mario. He's a legendary hero who emerges whenever the Mushroom Kingdom is threatened by Bowser, and each of his appearances then goes on to contribute to the overall legend. None of the games are particularly canon, they can all be seen as distorted retellings of what truely happened that became changed over time.
    emnmnme wrote: »
    Let me channel my inner-Seinfeld and ask what's the deal with bottomless pits littering stages in platformers? I can understand that bottomless pits mean instant death since the fall can kill a hero but look at the classics. In Mega Man 2, the pits look to be purposefully carved out of the floor. This wasn't a collapsed structure - the robot masters designed their own damn level to have a bottomless pit in it. And if it's not a bottomless pit, it's a pit decorated with spikes. Spikes are even more preposterous because they're instantly fatal even if you gently brush up against them. There's a huge difference between falling twenty feet on top of a bed of spikes
    Spoiler:
    and ever so gently tiptoeing close and daintily touching a spike with a stray hair and then exploding into a million pieces.

    This with the spikes bugged the fuck out of me in the early Sonics. In the Mega-Drive/Genesis version, you can accidentally run into the side of them and be fine, but in the Master System and Game Gear version, they might as well kill you just for looking at them

    In Spelunky, you can safely walk into spikes from the side. I think there's even a way to lower yourself into them without getting hurt.

  • ilmmadilmmad Registered User
    edited August 2009
    jothki wrote: »
    In Spelunky, you can safely walk into spikes from the side. I think there's even a way to lower yourself into them without getting hurt.

    I love that. What is the way to lower yourself though?

    Ilmmad.gif
  • jothkijothki Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    ilmmad wrote: »
    jothki wrote: »
    In Spelunky, you can safely walk into spikes from the side. I think there's even a way to lower yourself into them without getting hurt.

    I love that. What is the way to lower yourself though?

    If I remember correctly, if a spike pit is only one level below a ledge, you can lower yourself over the edge and end up at the same level as the spikes without being hurt.

  • ilmmadilmmad Registered User
    edited August 2009
    jothki wrote: »
    ilmmad wrote: »
    jothki wrote: »
    In Spelunky, you can safely walk into spikes from the side. I think there's even a way to lower yourself into them without getting hurt.

    I love that. What is the way to lower yourself though?

    If I remember correctly, if a spike pit is only one level below a ledge, you can lower yourself over the edge and end up at the same level as the spikes without being hurt.

    Oh, knew that. I was hoping there was a way you could do it from higher.

    Ilmmad.gif
  • mr-razzcocksmr-razzcocks Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    The spikes in Tomb Raider were utterly nonsensical. You could walk through them just fine, but running was harmful, and dropping onto the 'spiked tile' resulted in being fatally impaled, even if you landed on an apparently clear area of the tile, and from only a couple of feet from the ground.

    Edit: The early Tomb Raiders anyway. I don't even know if Tomb Raider has spikes these days.

  • mr-razzcocksmr-razzcocks Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    On the earlier mentioned subject about the accuracy of firearms in videogames, what is the effective range of a flamethrower in real life? In most games they're only effective at very close range. I don't know about you, but having a burning person running around very close to me would be the last thing I wanted if I was carrying a weapon armed with pressurised flamable tanks on my person.

  • YamiNoSenshiYamiNoSenshi Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    I've been going back through old games I never beat, and I'm on the cube Paper Mario game. What is Mario famous for? Jumping. How well does he jump in that game? Horribly.

    Seriously, Mario cannot jump for shit in 1000 Year Door. It's this piddly little one foot bounce. And why is it in a lot of games Luigi can jump higher and/or farther?

    Damn it, it's fucking noon. I demand to know if Yami shit on a desk yet.
  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Death Groupie Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    I've been going back through old games I never beat, and I'm on the cube Paper Mario game. What is Mario famous for? Jumping. How well does he jump in that game? Horribly.

    Seriously, Mario cannot jump for shit in 1000 Year Door. It's this piddly little one foot bounce. And why is it in a lot of games Luigi can jump higher and/or farther?

    Luigi is always in the shadow of his older brother. At least let him keep the higher jumping card.

    On a serious note; Mario is supposed to be the average character now: he's decent in everything because he's pretty much the default character to play in games like Mario Kart and so on.

    steam_sig.png
  • MegaMekMegaMek Out with the old; in with the new.Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    On the earlier mentioned subject about the accuracy of firearms in videogames, what is the effective range of a flamethrower in real life? In most games they're only effective at very close range. I don't know about you, but having a burning person running around very close to me would be the last thing I wanted if I was carrying a weapon armed with pressurised flamable tanks on my person.
    Depends on the model. WW2 era man-portable versions had an effective range of about 25m. But they used liquid fuel, while in most video games flamethrowers seem to use gas.

  • emnmnmeemnmnme Heard about this on conservative radio:Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    The spikes in Tomb Raider were utterly nonsensical. You could walk through them just fine, but running was harmful, and dropping onto the 'spiked tile' resulted in being fatally impaled, even if you landed on an apparently clear area of the tile, and from only a couple of feet from the ground.

    Edit: The early Tomb Raiders anyway. I don't even know if Tomb Raider has spikes these days.

    I bet they were just following the first Prince of Persia's rules. You can walk through spikes if you tiptoe. And that makes a little sense - if Lara Croft doesn't take her time maneuvering past waist-high spikes, she's going to get one stuck through her thigh and crippled.

    easybossfight_zps4752c132.gif
  • RobmanRobman Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Here's a quirk with tomb raider. How the fark did that t-rex live? What were the raptor's eating? A t-rex would require a massive roaming area in order to not eat the local food into extinction.

  • Darkchampion3dDarkchampion3d Registered User
    edited August 2009
    MegaMek wrote: »
    On the earlier mentioned subject about the accuracy of firearms in videogames, what is the effective range of a flamethrower in real life? In most games they're only effective at very close range. I don't know about you, but having a burning person running around very close to me would be the last thing I wanted if I was carrying a weapon armed with pressurised flamable tanks on my person.
    Depends on the model. WW2 era man-portable versions had an effective range of about 25m. But they used liquid fuel, while in most video games flamethrowers seem to use gas.

    The liquid fuel was better for sticking to people/equpment and splattering into nooks and crannies if you were firing it into a bunker or something. Commercial equivalents typically use propane or natural gas though. I'm guessing TF2 pyro is just a sugar cane cultivator gone bad.

    Also, they don't blow up when shot. The cylinders are surrounded by pressurized nitrogen (inert) which is the propellant used to actually fire the flamethrower. Unless someone shot it with incendiary rounds it would probably just leak out especially since the mixture itself has a pretty high fire point (for obvious reasons) and is typically ignited with a magnesium igniter.

    Our country is now taking so steady a course as to show by what road it will pass to destruction, to wit: by consolidation of power first, and then corruption, its necessary consequence --Thomas Jefferson
  • ScabiesScabies Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    jothki wrote: »
    The thing to understand about the Mario games is that there is no single Mario. He's a legendary hero who emerges whenever the Mushroom Kingdom is threatened by Bowser, and each of his appearances then goes on to contribute to the overall legend. None of the games are particularly canon, they can all be seen as distorted retellings of what truely happened that became changed over time.
    1- agreeing: That explains the voice change post-N64
    2- disagreeing: You Multi-Link (tlz) theorists leave Mario alone! Mario, Toadstool, Toad, and Bowser all change from game to game yet still have roughly the same relationships and motives? Feh!

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • jothkijothki Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Scabies wrote: »
    jothki wrote: »
    The thing to understand about the Mario games is that there is no single Mario. He's a legendary hero who emerges whenever the Mushroom Kingdom is threatened by Bowser, and each of his appearances then goes on to contribute to the overall legend. None of the games are particularly canon, they can all be seen as distorted retellings of what truely happened that became changed over time.
    1- agreeing: That explains the voice change post-N64
    2- disagreeing: You Multi-Link (tlz) theorists leave Mario alone! Mario, Toadstool, Toad, and Bowser all change from game to game yet still have roughly the same relationships and motives? Feh!

    Would you like to hear my theories about the Kirby series timeline?
    Spoiler:

  • PeregrineFalconPeregrineFalcon Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    On the earlier mentioned subject about the accuracy of firearms in videogames, what is the effective range of a flamethrower in real life? In most games they're only effective at very close range. I don't know about you, but having a burning person running around very close to me would be the last thing I wanted if I was carrying a weapon armed with pressurised flamable tanks on my person.

    About this far:
    2akdzk4.jpg
    Wikipedia wrote:
    Typically, popular visual media depict the flamethrower as short-ranged, of a few effective meters (due to the common use of propane gas as the fuel in flamethrowers in movies, for the safety of the actors), but contemporary flamethrowers can incinerate targets at 50–80 meters (165–270 feet) distance from the gunner; moreover, an unignited stream of flammable liquid can be fired and afterwards ignited, possibly by a lamp or other flame inside the bunker.

    Modern flamethrowers are good to about 200ft or so - and it's basically flammable Jello they shoot.

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  • TaranisTaranis Every time I hear this groove, It makes me wanna move.Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Almost every weapon in every game is inaccurate in some form. It's so bad that it seems like the only research done by developers is watching movies.

    / steam profile / mwo handle: calverin /
    nerosig_zps80ae1f48.png
  • KorKor Known to detonate from time to time Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Or the weapons are designed to fit a different role.

    Why would you ever use a pistol when you can shoot a shotgun that does more damage with the same range?

    Its all game balancing stuff. Mostly for variety sake.

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  • TaranisTaranis Every time I hear this groove, It makes me wanna move.Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Kor wrote: »
    Or the weapons are designed to fit a different role.

    Why would you ever use a pistol when you can shoot a shotgun that does more damage with the same range?

    Its all game balancing stuff. Mostly for variety sake.

    I'm saying that the way they function is usually inaccurate.

    / steam profile / mwo handle: calverin /
    nerosig_zps80ae1f48.png
  • Der Waffle MousDer Waffle Mous WALK 3X FASTER New Yark, New Yark.Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Taranis wrote: »
    Almost every weapon in every game is inaccurate in some form. It's so bad that it seems like the only research done by developers is watching movies.
    This pretty much falls under that whole "Uzis and the rule of cool" quote earlier in the thread.

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  • KorKor Known to detonate from time to time Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Taranis wrote: »
    Kor wrote: »
    Or the weapons are designed to fit a different role.

    Why would you ever use a pistol when you can shoot a shotgun that does more damage with the same range?

    Its all game balancing stuff. Mostly for variety sake.

    I'm saying that the way they function is usually inaccurate.

    Well I was specifically commenting on your "They didn't do any research" statement.

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  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    I could be mistaken, but I think flamethrowers in games (with the exception of the Close Combat series) bear more resemblance to commercial and industrial flamethrowers. You spit out a cloud of burning gas, which ceases as soon as the gas source is cut. It cooks things, but that's about it.

    Military flamethrowers haven't changed a great deal, and are no longer considered viable weapons, barring some extreme scenarios(?). They spit out a an amount of liquid which is ignited, and thus, sticks and clings to things, which continue to burn, not necessarily because they are on fire, but because of the viscosity of the liquid in question.

    This would involve considerably more complex physics than a lot of games could handle, so it's no surprise. Plus, to be truly accurate, they would also have to incorporate the fact that man-portable flamethrowers had a tendency to explode when shot at.

    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
  • AxenAxen My avatar is Excalibur. Yes, the sword.Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Weapons with backwards textures is something that should never, ever happen yet it does. I could almost not play Farcry 2 because of it! Every time I fire a gun in a game and the brass comes out from the left side of the weapon I die a little inside. :(

    This has nothing to do with game logic. . . it's just a mistake that needs to stop.

    edit- Did you know ownership of a flame thrower is legal in the United States? God damn I love this country.

  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Apparently, not being a gun nut has helped me enjoy video games much more.

    On the other hand, whenever I see a fighter aircraft equipped with 40 identical, all-target missiles, I die a little inside myself. :( Damn you flight arcade-style games, killing my simulators.

    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
  • PeregrineFalconPeregrineFalcon Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Axen wrote: »
    Weapons with backwards textures is something that should never, ever happen yet it does. I could almost not play Farcry 2 because of it! Every time I fire a gun in a game and the brass comes out from the left side of the weapon I die a little inside. :(

    This has nothing to do with game logic. . . it's just a mistake that needs to stop.

    BLACK did that strictly for Rule of Cool by the developer's own admission, but yes, that's annoying as well. Unless the player character is the only right-handed guy in a left-handed world, because they do make a few guns for lefties specifically.

    The "shotguns are useless outside 10 feet olol" is the one that gets me the most though. :P

    Edit - Except for California, Axen. ;)

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  • AxenAxen My avatar is Excalibur. Yes, the sword.Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    It's not even about being a gun nut, it's just common sense. Anyone can take 3 seconds and look at a picture of a gun and see that the brass comes out on the right side so it will not smack the shooter in his face.

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