Help a newbie upgrade his PC

LockedOnTarget · August 2009

Okay, so, I want to upgrade my CPU. Problem is, I know nothing about CPUs and motherboards and what I can upgrade to. All I really know is that I have an AMD Phenom 9500(quad core, 2.2 Ghz) but I believe I need more information than this.

So to the smart guys out there: what do I need to know about my CPU/motherboard in order to know what I can upgrade to, and more importantly, what do I have to do to find out?

Jasconius · August 2009

Unless AMD sockets have changed substantially since I last had one, you may as well just buy a whole new board/CPU combo.

Once AMD's sockets are locked in, the heatsinks are so large it's hard to unlock them, which means you have to force them out.

If you are new to it, you risk bending the pins, etc.

LockedOnTarget · August 2009

Well, I wouldn't be doing the physical act of upgrading myself, I'd just pay someone to do it.

lowlylowlycook · August 2009

You need to tell us which motherboard you have.

[edit] Also it would be useful to know what tasks you plan on doing with your computer.

LockedOnTarget · August 2009

How do I find out what motherboard I have? Am I gonna have to open up the tower itself or is there some way to look it up while on the PC?

I'm doing this mainly just to help gaming performance. I'm finding my PC to have disappointing game performance, and after a year of troubleshooting and getting advice both IRL and on message boards, I'm really feeling as though my CPU might be bottlenecking me. I think it was a mistake to get a slower quad-core instead of a faster dual-core, and after looking around on the net I don't seem to be the only one getting poor performance out of the Phenom 9500. Crysis, for example, chugs at 10 fps even on the lowest resolutions. But when I compare my specs to people saying they're getting 30-40 fps, they have pretty much equivalent PCs except for the processor.

Even if the CPU isn't the problem, an upgrade is an upgrade, and I'm sure I'll get some kind of boost. would have gotten a faster one to start with if I had the money at the time...I have the money now, so why not?

Satsumomo · August 2009

www.cpuid.com

There's an application there, called "PCWizard", it will tell you what kind of motherboard you have.

travathian · August 2009

LockedOnTarget wrote: »

I'm doing this mainly just to help gaming performance.

Then this is what your question should be, not what can you upgrade the processor to. Give the entire specs of your system. If it is a manufactured computer, give us the make and model. If you had it custom made, I would surely hope your receipt has an invoice. Motherboard, processor, memory and video card are what we will need info about. Manufacturer and model/type of each please.

101 · August 2009

If you don't have any details on what your computer specs are, going:

start > run >type ' dxdiag' with no quote marks and enter

will show you the specifications. (go to display 1 for graphics card info)

LockedOnTarget · August 2009

Here's the dxdiag stuff. Probably a lot of unneeded info there but to be on the safe side, I'll give you the entire thing:

Spoiler:

LockedOnTarget · August 2009

And part 2:

Spoiler:

LockedOnTarget · August 2009

Satsumomo wrote: »

www.cpuid.com

There's an application there, called "PCWizard", it will tell you what kind of motherboard you have.

I'm guessing "main board" = motherboard? The program says it's an Asus NARRA3

travathian · August 2009

HP-Pavilion
System Model: KE570AA-A2L

AMD Phenom(tm) 9500 Quad-Core Processor (4 CPUs), ~2.2GHz
NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT
Memory: 3070MB RAM
Asus NARRA3
WD4000AAJS-65TKA

Based on all this, you meet the recommended system requirements for Crysis. This leads me to believe: you are either cranking up the settings too high or your system has something(s) running in the background mucking things up or your system has driver issues. You should definitely be getting better than 10fps with your system if the game is configured correctly.

Have you tried other modern games?

LockedOnTarget · August 2009

It depends on the game, but newer games tend to have framerate stutters, and generally don't seem to perform as well as people with similar systems. Some run great though, like the CoD games and the new demo for Batman. It seems like the problems are most common with games where there's a lot going on. Like Crysis with all it's physics stuff, or large-scale RTS games like Sins of a Solar Empire and Supreme Commander.

Crysis is by far the most dissapointing. I get people on message boards who have the same video card, same amount of RAM, on Vista, etc. telling me that they're getting 30+ FPS on high settings, while I get 10-15 with it often dipping below 10 when things are busy. It just doesn't seem right. I make sure there's as little stuff as possible running in the background, and I keep my drivers up to date.

What's really weird is resolution seems to no effect it at all. Not that I'd want to play on a crappy rez anyway, but I've actually tried going all the way to the very worst resolution available and I gain like 1 or 2 FPS at most. Going to medium settings doesn't help much either.

It's frustrating because according to everything I've been told, and the user accounts I've read from people who have PC's a lot like mine, I should be able to run it pretty decently on high(never botherted trying very high), and I should be getting better game performance in general.

But I keep hearing that a lot of games just aren't optimized for quad cores, and after trying everything that's ever suggested to me without getting any results, I can't help but think that maybe that 2.2 Ghz speed might be holding me back.

Stormwatcher · August 2009

travathian wrote: »

HP-Pavilion
System Model: KE570AA-A2L

AMD Phenom(tm) 9500 Quad-Core Processor (4 CPUs), ~2.2GHz
NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT
Memory: 3070MB RAM
Asus NARRA3
WD4000AAJS-65TKA

Based on all this, you meet the recommended system requirements for Crysis. This leads me to believe: you are either cranking up the settings too high or your system has something(s) running in the background mucking things up or your system has driver issues. You should definitely be getting better than 10fps with your system if the game is configured correctly.

Have you tried other modern games?

I agree.
Crysis is definitely NOT CPU bound, it should be performing better.
There is something else wrong going on there.

travathian · August 2009

LockedOnTarget wrote: »

But I keep hearing that a lot of games just aren't optimized for quad cores, and after trying everything that's ever suggested to me without getting any results, I can't help but think that maybe that 2.2 Ghz speed might be holding me back.

Not being optimized for quad-core doesn't mean they will run like shit. By all means, find the guide for your motherboard and it should detail all compatible processors. Pay for the processor, pay to have it installed, and then play the game and let us know how it goes. I truly hope that it helps as much as you hope it will, but I still stand by my conclusion that your processor is not the cause of your woes.

Update windows, update drivers, update BIOS, update the game, remove crap from startup, turn off AA/AS, find tweak guides for the game. Tons of other things you can do that don't involve spending cash.

LockedOnTarget · August 2009

travathian wrote: »

LockedOnTarget wrote: »

But I keep hearing that a lot of games just aren't optimized for quad cores, and after trying everything that's ever suggested to me without getting any results, I can't help but think that maybe that 2.2 Ghz speed might be holding me back.

Not being optimized for quad-core doesn't mean they will run like shit. By all means, find the guide for your motherboard and it should detail all compatible processors. Pay for the processor, pay to have it installed, and then play the game and let us know how it goes. I truly hope that it helps as much as you hope it will, but I still stand by my conclusion that your processor is not the cause of your woes.

Update windows, update drivers, update BIOS, update the game, remove crap from startup, turn off AA/AS, find tweak guides for the game. Tons of other things you can do that don't involve spending cash.

Problem is, I already literally tried everything you just suggested, with no improvement. Well obviously tweaking the graphics enough improves performance, but when by all accounts I should be able to get playable framerates from this game, that doesn't exactly feel like a solution.

I've been trying to deal with this for over a year, I've already had all that stuff suggested to me multiple times. Nothing ever seems to help. It's frustrating...I don't know what else to do.

Stormwatcher · August 2009

LockedOnTarget wrote: »

travathian wrote: »

LockedOnTarget wrote: »

But I keep hearing that a lot of games just aren't optimized for quad cores, and after trying everything that's ever suggested to me without getting any results, I can't help but think that maybe that 2.2 Ghz speed might be holding me back.

Not being optimized for quad-core doesn't mean they will run like shit. By all means, find the guide for your motherboard and it should detail all compatible processors. Pay for the processor, pay to have it installed, and then play the game and let us know how it goes. I truly hope that it helps as much as you hope it will, but I still stand by my conclusion that your processor is not the cause of your woes.

Update windows, update drivers, update BIOS, update the game, remove crap from startup, turn off AA/AS, find tweak guides for the game. Tons of other things you can do that don't involve spending cash.

Problem is, I already literally tried everything you just suggested, with no improvement. Well obviously tweaking the graphics enough improves performance, but when by all accounts I should be able to get playable framerates from this game, that doesn't exactly feel like a solution.

I've been trying to deal with this for over a year, I've already had all that stuff suggested to me multiple times. Nothing ever seems to help. It's frustrating...I don't know what else to do.

Then you probably do a full overhaul. I know for a fact that most modern games are GPU bound, i.e. as long as you have something with more than one core and faster than 2GHz, it's the GPU that's gonna make the biggest difference performance-wise. A few titles are more influenced by CPU: Supreme Commander, GTAIV, Prototype. Mostly games with a LOT of physics and AI processing. Crysis isn't usually one of them.

I don't know much about AMD anymore, so I can't point a good dual-core AMD chip to you. Can you try to test your video card on someone else's system? Maybe it's broken, maybe your PSU is too anemic, maybe it's overheating, it's hard to say. All I can tell is that your performance is too shitty for your specs.

Grizzly_Addams · August 2009

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103055

LockedOnTarget · August 2009

Everyone I know uses laptops, or really old PCs, so I don't know if I could try the vid card out somewhere else right now. I was actually thinking about upgrading my gpu right away anyway, so if the card I have IS broken I suppose I'll know soon enough.

Maybe I'll look into the PSU. It's 500W I believe, but I don't know the details and the box/reciept got thrown out...so I guess I'll have to open the tower up to find out what I got. Maybe it's a crappy one, I remember it being fairly cheap. What do you mean by "too anemic"?

I don't think it would be an overheating problem, because I still have the issue even if my PC has been off for days, and then I boot it up and go straight into the game. But I can't say I really know anything about that really...is there a way to test this?

Stormwatcher · August 2009

LockedOnTarget wrote: »

Everyone I know uses laptops, or really old PCs, so I don't know if I could try the vid card out somewhere else right now. I was actually thinking about upgrading my gpu right away anyway, so if the card I have IS broken I suppose I'll know soon enough.

Maybe I'll look into the PSU. It's 500W I believe, but I don't know the details and the box/reciept got thrown out...so I guess I'll have to open the tower up to find out what I got. Maybe it's a crappy one, I remember it being fairly cheap. What do you mean by "too anemic"?

I don't think it would be an overheating problem, because I still have the issue even if my PC has been off for days, and then I boot it up and go straight into the game. But I can't say I really know anything about that really...is there a way to test this?

By anemic i meant not supplying enough power to the VGA card.

LockedOnTarget · August 2009

Opened up the tower and took a look at the psu. It's a Dynex 500W power supply, the DX-PS300W.

And now, after googling it, I'm seeing that it may be, well, an overpriced, underperforming piece of crap, and may be the root of my problems after all. What do you guys think?

I think I may just try upgrading this thing first. But I don't really know what to look for in a PSU, if someone could take a look at newegg.ca and tell me what a good one would be, that would be great. I wouldn't mind getting one that's better than what I need to future-proof a little, as well.

lowlylowlycook · August 2009

LockedOnTarget wrote: »

Opened up the tower and took a look at the psu. It's a Dynex 500W power supply, the DX-PS300W.

And now, after googling it, I'm seeing that it may be, well, an overpriced, underperforming piece of crap, and may be the root of my problems after all. What do you guys think?

I think I may just try upgrading this thing first. But I don't really know what to look for in a PSU, if someone could take a look at newegg.ca and tell me what a good one would be, that would be great. I wouldn't mind getting one that's better than what I need to future-proof a little, as well.

The computer build sticky has a list of power supplies depending on which and how many video cards you want or want to be able to upgrade to at a later time.

symbolsor · August 2009

It seems you're going to have to upgrade your motherboard if you want a new CPU. The Narra3 (your mobo) only supports up to a 9600 processor. Not really worth the price to upgrade from a 9500. Otherwise I'd say upgrade to a Phenom II.

Clean out your system as best you can, upgrade your video drivers (the report you posted says they're old), and if you really want more performance without a new mobo, get a new video card. The one you have is definitely awesome, I've been running it for almost two years but Crysis- to this day - is a major hog.

On that note...

Crysis should still be running quite a bit faster than what you're getting. My setup which is similar gets around 30fps, albeit with some tweaks and not all the pretty effects on high (maybe at a lower res too, it's been a long while since I've played it.)

My recommendation if you don't want to wait for the next line of videocards:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130433

Also, upgrade the power supply. Antec, Corsair, PC Power and Cooling are good PSU brands.

Edit: If you do buy a new videocard make sure your case has room for it!

LockedOnTarget · August 2009

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139006

How's this PSU? It looks like it could be a pretty good one and the price seems pretty solid.

lowlylowlycook · August 2009

LockedOnTarget wrote: »

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139006

How's this PSU? It looks like it could be a pretty good one and the price seems pretty solid.

That's a good PSU but it might be more than you need since it is really designed for SLI/Crossfire of cards that need two PCI-E connectors(like the 260 GTX symbolsor recommended).

LockedOnTarget · August 2009

I'm cool with getting more than I need, as long as what I get will suit what I need. Figure better future-proofing can't hurt. Who knows, I might decide I want to SLI down the line.

Are there any downsides for PSU overkill besides a higher cost? Like, performance-wise?

symbolsor · August 2009

LockedOnTarget wrote: »

I'm cool with getting more than I need, as long as what I get will suit what I need. Figure better future-proofing can't hurt. Who knows, I might decide I want to SLI down the line.

Are there any downsides for PSU overkill besides a higher cost? Like, performance-wise?

I don't really see any downsides to it, you might actually save on your electric bill if you get an efficient power supply. Although, I agree with lowlylowlycook that it might a little overkill but who knows, if you upgrade it might be worth it. I've kept my current Corsair PSU through 3 builds for reference.

LockedOnTarget · August 2009

Yeah, I was thinking that buying this will mean I probably won't need to get a better PSU for a very long time. Seems like a good deal for a little over $100.

Stormwatcher · August 2009

LockedOnTarget wrote: »

I'm cool with getting more than I need, as long as what I get will suit what I need. Figure better future-proofing can't hurt. Who knows, I might decide I want to SLI down the line.

Are there any downsides for PSU overkill besides a higher cost? Like, performance-wise?

I don't think getting a "too good" PSU is bad, you can always use it on future machines, kinda like a good monitor. It's not gonna be obsolete or anything like that anytime soon.

Satsumomo · August 2009

The TX750 is a great value. You'd have more than enough power with the VX550 but it usually retails around $95-$100 so might as well go with the 750W one for a few more bills.

travathian · August 2009

LockedOnTarget wrote: »

I'm cool with getting more than I need, as long as what I get will suit what I need. Figure better future-proofing can't hurt. Who knows, I might decide I want to SLI down the line.

Are there any downsides for PSU overkill besides a higher cost? Like, performance-wise?

Higher electric bill and it'll generate more heat, for no gain.

There is no need for a 750W power supply, even a 500W is pushing it for most gamers. I have a Quad core i7, 6gigs of ram, 9500GT, and 3 hdd all running on a 380W power supply. I know have still have plenty of room to spare. All this "blah blah SLI, blah blah Crossfire" talk is a load of bunk. You are not going to be drawing anywhere even close to 750W. Pull up the specs on each component to see each rating for maximum wattage pulled and then add them up. Your system has a small PSU because that is all it really needs. You think systems engineers really would put a shitty, underpowered PSU into a mass produced system? They wouldn't, they do the same math and pick something appropriate. A 750W PSU is a waste of money up front and a waste of money in the long term if you have to pay for electricity or to cool your place. Bigger is not always better when it comes to PSUs. Figure out what your system draws now, then compare that to what the max pull would be if fully upgraded. If you really, seriously think you'll ever upgrade that system that much, then get the bigger psu, but dont just buy the biggest damn PSU you can get.

Stormwatcher · August 2009

travathian wrote: »

LockedOnTarget wrote: »

I'm cool with getting more than I need, as long as what I get will suit what I need. Figure better future-proofing can't hurt. Who knows, I might decide I want to SLI down the line.

Are there any downsides for PSU overkill besides a higher cost? Like, performance-wise?

Higher electric bill and it'll generate more heat, for no gain.

There is no need for a 750W power supply, even a 500W is pushing it for most gamers. I have a Quad core i7, 6gigs of ram, 9500GT, and 3 hdd all running on a 380W power supply. I know have still have plenty of room to spare. All this "blah blah SLI, blah blah Crossfire" talk is a load of bunk. You are not going to be drawing anywhere even close to 750W. Pull up the specs on each component to see each rating for maximum wattage pulled and then add them up. Your system has a small PSU because that is all it really needs. You think systems engineers really would put a shitty, underpowered PSU into a mass produced system? They wouldn't, they do the same math and pick something appropriate. A 750W PSU is a waste of money up front and a waste of money in the long term if you have to pay for electricity or to cool your place. Bigger is not always better when it comes to PSUs. Figure out what your system draws now, then compare that to what the max pull would be if fully upgraded. If you really, seriously think you'll ever upgrade that system that much, then get the bigger psu, but dont just buy the biggest damn PSU you can get.

That's actually completely wrong. Higher efficiency PSUs draw less power from the grid because they use it better. And they don't draw 750w all the time, just the amount the machine is using.

Satsumomo · August 2009

travathian wrote: »

LockedOnTarget wrote: »

I'm cool with getting more than I need, as long as what I get will suit what I need. Figure better future-proofing can't hurt. Who knows, I might decide I want to SLI down the line.

Are there any downsides for PSU overkill besides a higher cost? Like, performance-wise?

Higher electric bill and it'll generate more heat, for no gain.

There is no need for a 750W power supply, even a 500W is pushing it for most gamers. I have a Quad core i7, 6gigs of ram, 9500GT, and 3 hdd all running on a 380W power supply. I know have still have plenty of room to spare. All this "blah blah SLI, blah blah Crossfire" talk is a load of bunk. You are not going to be drawing anywhere even close to 750W. Pull up the specs on each component to see each rating for maximum wattage pulled and then add them up. Your system has a small PSU because that is all it really needs. You think systems engineers really would put a shitty, underpowered PSU into a mass produced system? They wouldn't, they do the same math and pick something appropriate. A 750W PSU is a waste of money up front and a waste of money in the long term if you have to pay for electricity or to cool your place. Bigger is not always better when it comes to PSUs. Figure out what your system draws now, then compare that to what the max pull would be if fully upgraded. If you really, seriously think you'll ever upgrade that system that much, then get the bigger psu, but dont just buy the biggest damn PSU you can get.

Whoah buddy, you just wall of text'd us with wrong information.

A 750W PSU doesn't constantly pull 750W out of the socket at all. If your total computer parts consume 300W, your 750W PSU will only output those 300W.

Most PSU's get their best efficiency at around 70-80% load, but it's pretty much a straight line anyways, efficiency only drops at near maximum load so if your system needs 500W and you're using a 750W psu, you're gonna get great efficiency (Read: Less wasted power) as opposed to drawing 500W out of 550W.

In simpler terms, a 750W PSU with a 500W load will consume less energy than a 550W PSU with a 500W load.

Edit: What kind of 380W PSU are you using? I surely hope it isn't the one that came with your case!

travathian · August 2009

Sorry, but you are both wrong. A 750W PSU only loaded to 350W draws more power than a 500W PSU drawing 350W. Go look at conversion rates for 80% PSUs. It is not a straight line. It is a curve. The further down the curve you are, the worse the efficiency is. Likewise, once you start hitting 90% load efficiency goes down. I never claimed that 750W PSUs draw 750Ws all the time, I said they lead to a higher electric bill and generate more heat. They do. Something that is LESS efficient produces MORE heat, and in order to do that must use MORE energy. If you put a 750W PSU in the typical gaming system you are wasting money by buying more PSU than you will likely ever need as well as wasting money every moment it is running. Especially considering how many people leave their computers on all the time. How many watts do you think your PC consumes while it sits idle? On a 750W PSU you will be clear down at the bottom of the curve and getting something like 60-70% efficiency. Now if you want to jump up to a 80+ Silver or Gold PSU, that is not the case, as they have incredibly high and wide efficiency bands, but not many people are willing to shell out an extra $50-100 over a quality Bronze model just to achieve that.

Use a calculator to determine the wattage you need, plan for possible realistic upgrades and then buy an appropriate sized PSU. Buying a 750W PSU for most gamers is like the idiot who buys a Ford Excursion to drive his 2 kids around.

I own a Seasonic 80+ bronze model. Very quiet, very efficient, very well reviewed and worth every penny for it. I can take out my 9500GT and drop in the highest end Nvidia graphic card and still be in the 84% efficiency band on my PSU. I won't be able to SLI, but meh, I think that is terribly over rated and not worth the headaches that still persist with it. The PSU was $63 shipped, which is $100 cheaper than a Silver model, and $30 cheaper than a humongo 750W unit I won't ever need. Typical gamers can get by with 400W, SLI 500W, hardcore omg 3xSLI overclocking maximum everything cathode tube 8 fans 5 hdd systems will require 750W or more.

Stormwatcher · August 2009

That's funny because after I changed a shitty 420W low efficiency PSU for a good 620W my electrical bill went down.

Satsumomo · August 2009

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/505/7

Lowest efficiency for the 750TX: 78% @ 296W

Your first post really made it sound like a 750W unit is pulling 750W out of the wall constantly. And saying "Even a 500W is pushing it for most gamers"... well yeah.

Nearing a PSU's power limit is also going to generate more 'noise' on the power inputs, which is never good for your components.

LockedOnTarget · August 2009

Honestly, the only reason I ordered the 750W one was because it was like over 100 bucks off, and either cheaper or equal in price to all the 500-750W PSUs I've found in stores. So, I mean, if I'm not paying extra money anyway, why not?

LockedOnTarget · August 2009

Another question: I'm going to be buying a new vid card soon. I'm looking at probably the 260 GTX, but I was wonderng if it would be worth it to spend the extra 50 bucks and get the 275, or if I should just save my money and the 260 would be good enough?

Newegg's offering the new Batman game with both of them, too. Nice.

Stormwatcher · August 2009

I'm using ATI now, so I really don't know. Check Tom's Harware for benchmarks.

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