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[BSG] Blood & Chrome is here and will frak your shit backwards in time

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Posts

  • BlazeFireBlazeFire Registered User regular
    Richy wrote: »
    BlazeFire wrote: »
    Richy wrote: »
    BlazeFire wrote: »
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    Houn wrote: »
    He started as spoiled little shit that miraculously survived the near annihilation of the human race.
    He ended as a spoiled little shit with a cult and mental instability that miraculously survived the near annihilation of the human race.

    It doesn't really matter how much he did or didn't change, though, because the only reason he changed was because God needed him to change in order for God's plan to come to fruition.

    This is my point. By making this a story about God's Plan, instead of a story about Humanity Overcoming the Odds, all Humanity is removed from the story. Everything, and I mean literally everything, happens because it was in God's script. Baltar is the worst example to use, because any changes he underwent were entirely due to an invisible agent of God dragging him into them by the ear like a child.

    I think a lot of the message about God's Plan is based around the idea that A) you can be ignorant of it, or B) you can be opposed to it.

    It wasn't God's Plan that the Cylons and Humans had been murdering each other. It was God's Plan that they get along and start making babies.

    "God's Plan" in the show is little more than "hey, maybe we all shouldn't be horrible assholes to each other."

    Bullshit. Who do you think reanimated that corpse so it could pull a trigger to launch those nukes that killed off the remaining Cylons? Who do you think mind controlled everyone so they would agree to throw their space ships into the sun so they could quickly die off from disease, exposure, and predators? Except for Hera, who could live just long enough to start the newly dominate strain of humanoids before also dropping dead.

    God had clearly written off both humans and Cylons as failures. All he cared about was getting Hera to Earth to use as the genetic template for a new attempt.

    :shock: I need to rewatch BSG as I don't remember anything of what you are talking about, except for who Hera is.

    That's because it's all shit he made up. It's "Endor genocide" levels of aimless neck-beard fan-rage.

    I thought I spent enough time on the internet, but it must be a different internet. "Ender genocide" being the theory that OSCard wrote Ender as a Hitler-apologist?

    Not Ender, Endor. The moon the Ewoks live on. Some years ago some Star Wars neck beard calculated that the debris from the exploded death star raining down on Endor would be enough to wipe out all life on it. The Endor genocide that the Rebels are responsible for. It's a funny anecdote, but some fans take it esriously. It's quite simply reading way too much into the ending of Jedi, to the point of turning it into the opposite of the intended ending. HamHamJ does the same to the ending of BSG, with as much seriousness, and looks as ridiculous.

    Oh, wow. I just assumed that was a typo. I have never heard of that. Huh. I'm definitely hanging out in the wrong (right?) parts of the internet. Thanks.

  • AManFromEarthAManFromEarth Their ideas are old and their ideas are bad. Risk is our business.Registered User regular
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    Richy wrote: »
    BlazeFire wrote: »
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    Houn wrote: »
    He started as spoiled little shit that miraculously survived the near annihilation of the human race.
    He ended as a spoiled little shit with a cult and mental instability that miraculously survived the near annihilation of the human race.

    It doesn't really matter how much he did or didn't change, though, because the only reason he changed was because God needed him to change in order for God's plan to come to fruition.

    This is my point. By making this a story about God's Plan, instead of a story about Humanity Overcoming the Odds, all Humanity is removed from the story. Everything, and I mean literally everything, happens because it was in God's script. Baltar is the worst example to use, because any changes he underwent were entirely due to an invisible agent of God dragging him into them by the ear like a child.

    I think a lot of the message about God's Plan is based around the idea that A) you can be ignorant of it, or B) you can be opposed to it.

    It wasn't God's Plan that the Cylons and Humans had been murdering each other. It was God's Plan that they get along and start making babies.

    "God's Plan" in the show is little more than "hey, maybe we all shouldn't be horrible assholes to each other."

    Bullshit. Who do you think reanimated that corpse so it could pull a trigger to launch those nukes that killed off the remaining Cylons? Who do you think mind controlled everyone so they would agree to throw their space ships into the sun so they could quickly die off from disease, exposure, and predators? Except for Hera, who could live just long enough to start the newly dominate strain of humanoids before also dropping dead.

    God had clearly written off both humans and Cylons as failures. All he cared about was getting Hera to Earth to use as the genetic template for a new attempt.

    :shock: I need to rewatch BSG as I don't remember anything of what you are talking about, except for who Hera is.

    That's because it's all shit he made up. It's "Endor genocide" levels of aimless neck-beard fan-rage.

    I admit the mind control is a deduction. But really, What's-Her-Names corpse hit the trigger to launch those nukes at the colony by accident? That's a minor miracle. God may be distracting us with all the proclamations by Head Six and such, but his real influence is surely in those kinds of moments, were the astronomically improbable happens just so, and furthers his agenda.

    And if Hera is mitochondrial Eve, then everyone had to die. That's just science.

    It--- it really isn't

    Lh96QHG.png
  • RichyRichy Registered User regular
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    Richy wrote: »
    BlazeFire wrote: »
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    Houn wrote: »
    He started as spoiled little shit that miraculously survived the near annihilation of the human race.
    He ended as a spoiled little shit with a cult and mental instability that miraculously survived the near annihilation of the human race.

    It doesn't really matter how much he did or didn't change, though, because the only reason he changed was because God needed him to change in order for God's plan to come to fruition.

    This is my point. By making this a story about God's Plan, instead of a story about Humanity Overcoming the Odds, all Humanity is removed from the story. Everything, and I mean literally everything, happens because it was in God's script. Baltar is the worst example to use, because any changes he underwent were entirely due to an invisible agent of God dragging him into them by the ear like a child.

    I think a lot of the message about God's Plan is based around the idea that A) you can be ignorant of it, or B) you can be opposed to it.

    It wasn't God's Plan that the Cylons and Humans had been murdering each other. It was God's Plan that they get along and start making babies.

    "God's Plan" in the show is little more than "hey, maybe we all shouldn't be horrible assholes to each other."

    Bullshit. Who do you think reanimated that corpse so it could pull a trigger to launch those nukes that killed off the remaining Cylons? Who do you think mind controlled everyone so they would agree to throw their space ships into the sun so they could quickly die off from disease, exposure, and predators? Except for Hera, who could live just long enough to start the newly dominate strain of humanoids before also dropping dead.

    God had clearly written off both humans and Cylons as failures. All he cared about was getting Hera to Earth to use as the genetic template for a new attempt.

    :shock: I need to rewatch BSG as I don't remember anything of what you are talking about, except for who Hera is.

    That's because it's all shit he made up. It's "Endor genocide" levels of aimless neck-beard fan-rage.

    I admit the mind control is a deduction. But really, What's-Her-Names corpse hit the trigger to launch those nukes at the colony by accident? That's a minor miracle. God may be distracting us with all the proclamations by Head Six and such, but his real influence is surely in those kinds of moments, were the astronomically improbable happens just so, and furthers his agenda.

    And if Hera is mitochondrial Eve, then everyone had to die. That's just science.

    As I recall, we were shown an asteroid bumping into that Raptor and causing the corpse to move. The fact it hit the fire button was chance, sure. The targeting computer took care of the rest. But there were definitely no reanimated corpses involved.

    And no, mito-eve doesn't mean everyone else died. It means that all other lineages of descendants of the colonials eventually died off over time.

    RichyFlag.gifsig.gif
  • AManFromEarthAManFromEarth Their ideas are old and their ideas are bad. Risk is our business.Registered User regular
    BlazeFire wrote: »
    Richy wrote: »
    BlazeFire wrote: »
    Richy wrote: »
    BlazeFire wrote: »
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    Houn wrote: »
    He started as spoiled little shit that miraculously survived the near annihilation of the human race.
    He ended as a spoiled little shit with a cult and mental instability that miraculously survived the near annihilation of the human race.

    It doesn't really matter how much he did or didn't change, though, because the only reason he changed was because God needed him to change in order for God's plan to come to fruition.

    This is my point. By making this a story about God's Plan, instead of a story about Humanity Overcoming the Odds, all Humanity is removed from the story. Everything, and I mean literally everything, happens because it was in God's script. Baltar is the worst example to use, because any changes he underwent were entirely due to an invisible agent of God dragging him into them by the ear like a child.

    I think a lot of the message about God's Plan is based around the idea that A) you can be ignorant of it, or B) you can be opposed to it.

    It wasn't God's Plan that the Cylons and Humans had been murdering each other. It was God's Plan that they get along and start making babies.

    "God's Plan" in the show is little more than "hey, maybe we all shouldn't be horrible assholes to each other."

    Bullshit. Who do you think reanimated that corpse so it could pull a trigger to launch those nukes that killed off the remaining Cylons? Who do you think mind controlled everyone so they would agree to throw their space ships into the sun so they could quickly die off from disease, exposure, and predators? Except for Hera, who could live just long enough to start the newly dominate strain of humanoids before also dropping dead.

    God had clearly written off both humans and Cylons as failures. All he cared about was getting Hera to Earth to use as the genetic template for a new attempt.

    :shock: I need to rewatch BSG as I don't remember anything of what you are talking about, except for who Hera is.

    That's because it's all shit he made up. It's "Endor genocide" levels of aimless neck-beard fan-rage.

    I thought I spent enough time on the internet, but it must be a different internet. "Ender genocide" being the theory that OSCard wrote Ender as a Hitler-apologist?

    Not Ender, Endor. The moon the Ewoks live on. Some years ago some Star Wars neck beard calculated that the debris from the exploded death star raining down on Endor would be enough to wipe out all life on it. The Endor genocide that the Rebels are responsible for. It's a funny anecdote, but some fans take it esriously. It's quite simply reading way too much into the ending of Jedi, to the point of turning it into the opposite of the intended ending. HamHamJ does the same to the ending of BSG, with as much seriousness, and looks as ridiculous.

    Oh, wow. I just assumed that was a typo. I have never heard of that. Huh. I'm definitely hanging out in the wrong (right?) parts of the internet. Thanks.

    Dude, is that Ender's Game thing for real?

    If so, there's a movie coming up soon, so when the inevitable thread is created for it I have to know more. It's like, staring at a car wreck. It just has to be done.

    Lh96QHG.png
  • VortigernVortigern Registered User regular
    So apparently B&C has been metaphorically kicked in the nuts by SyFy today.



    ‘Battlestar Galactica: Blood & Chrome’ Not Moving Forward As TV Series On Syfy

    By NELLIE ANDREEVA Wednesday March 21, 2012

    It’s a case of bad news/good news for Battlestar Galactica fans who have been flocking to the Web to watch an unauthorized trailer for the long-in-the-works offshoot Battlestar Galactica: Blood & Chrome over the past 36 hours. After lengthy deliberations, Syfy has decided not to go forward with the project, about the young years of William Adama, as a regular TV series. Blood & Chrome, initially envisioned as a Web series, was greenlighted as a two-hour TV pilot in October 2010. Because of intensive post-production, including special effects, the pilot was not delivered to Syfy until last November. As of January, Syfy president original programming Mark Stern was quoted as saying that he the network brass were “trying to figure out the economics right now” and that he hoped those would be figured out. Now, the network has passed on the project as a regular series but is looking to do it as a digital one, while airing the already produced pilot on the network as a movie. “Though the vision for “Battlestar Galactica: Blood & Chrome” has evolved over the course of the past year, our enthusiasm for this ambitious project has not waned,” Stern said in a statement today. “We are actively pursuing it as was originally intended: a groundbreaking digital series that will launch to audiences beyond the scope of a television screen. The 90-minute pilot movie will air on Syfy in its entirety at a future date.”

    Despite the lengthy production and decision-making, the buzz about Blood & Chrome never died among Battlestar fans. It went into overdrive over the past couple of days following a WonderCom panel over the weekend with Kevin Grazier, the scientific adviser for Syfy’s Battlestar Galactica series, where he screened what was described as a trailer for Blood & Chrome. That trailer, to Trent Reznor and Karen O’s cover of “Immigrant Song” for The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo, found its way to the Web on Monday night and has gone viral — garnering some 100,000 views in 24 hours. The problem was that this was not an official trailer but a demo reel not intended for public consumption and thus not put through the process of clearing music and other rights. It is still unclear how the video made its way to WonderCon, but NBCUniversal today moved swiftly to take down the multiple copies that had popped up on YouTube.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    Richy wrote: »
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    Richy wrote: »
    BlazeFire wrote: »
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    Houn wrote: »
    He started as spoiled little shit that miraculously survived the near annihilation of the human race.
    He ended as a spoiled little shit with a cult and mental instability that miraculously survived the near annihilation of the human race.

    It doesn't really matter how much he did or didn't change, though, because the only reason he changed was because God needed him to change in order for God's plan to come to fruition.

    This is my point. By making this a story about God's Plan, instead of a story about Humanity Overcoming the Odds, all Humanity is removed from the story. Everything, and I mean literally everything, happens because it was in God's script. Baltar is the worst example to use, because any changes he underwent were entirely due to an invisible agent of God dragging him into them by the ear like a child.

    I think a lot of the message about God's Plan is based around the idea that A) you can be ignorant of it, or B) you can be opposed to it.

    It wasn't God's Plan that the Cylons and Humans had been murdering each other. It was God's Plan that they get along and start making babies.

    "God's Plan" in the show is little more than "hey, maybe we all shouldn't be horrible assholes to each other."

    Bullshit. Who do you think reanimated that corpse so it could pull a trigger to launch those nukes that killed off the remaining Cylons? Who do you think mind controlled everyone so they would agree to throw their space ships into the sun so they could quickly die off from disease, exposure, and predators? Except for Hera, who could live just long enough to start the newly dominate strain of humanoids before also dropping dead.

    God had clearly written off both humans and Cylons as failures. All he cared about was getting Hera to Earth to use as the genetic template for a new attempt.

    :shock: I need to rewatch BSG as I don't remember anything of what you are talking about, except for who Hera is.

    That's because it's all shit he made up. It's "Endor genocide" levels of aimless neck-beard fan-rage.

    I admit the mind control is a deduction. But really, What's-Her-Names corpse hit the trigger to launch those nukes at the colony by accident? That's a minor miracle. God may be distracting us with all the proclamations by Head Six and such, but his real influence is surely in those kinds of moments, were the astronomically improbable happens just so, and furthers his agenda.

    And if Hera is mitochondrial Eve, then everyone had to die. That's just science.

    As I recall, we were shown an asteroid bumping into that Raptor and causing the corpse to move. The fact it hit the fire button was chance, sure. The targeting computer took care of the rest. But there were definitely no reanimated corpses involved.

    The odds of that are absurd. It's far more likely that God nudged the asteroid and the corpse like some celestial game of pool.
    And no, mito-eve doesn't mean everyone else died. It means that all other lineages of descendants of the colonials eventually died off over time.

    They were spread out all over the planet. If they lived for more than one or two generations, there is no way to put that genie back in the bottle. The worst near-extinction population bottleneck humanity ever suffered would not be enough, I think.

    While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    As you'll notice by the date on that it's old news. Scifi only airs shit now, so there was no way they'd pick this up as it has the possibility to not be shit. They went off the rails when they cancelled Farscape a season early and never recovered.

    "For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men. Not women. Not beasts...this you can trust."
  • Salvation122Salvation122 Registered User regular
    Houn wrote: »
    The story basically hinged on faith. You have to have faith that "God", whatever it was, knows best, has a good plan, and has the best interests of the characters in mind.

    Your interpretation is wrong and bad.

    Bill Adama is an atheist who is openly derisive of Roslyn's spiritual mumbo-jumbo and only goes along with it because he's subordinate to her. Same for Starbuck's conviction that they're going the wrong way, but that time he goes along with it because he loves her, and she's an unstable element that'll get herself killed if he doesn't.

    Tigh and Apollo are Easter-and-Christmas religious but are extraordinarily skeptical that prophecy should influence the Fleet's strategic goals (Apollo less so than Tigh, especially as the series goes on.)

    Tyrol is in internal conflict with his own faith for basically the entire series.

    Tory's agnostic, as is Ellen, as is Anders (for the most part.) Starbuck and Dee are quietly deeply religious, but other than the weird relationship shit that happens in Season 3 it has no real effect; Helo's much the same.

    Baltar plays Pascal's Wager and wins. Notably, nearly the entire fleet is hostile towards his notion of God, which is the correct one, and the fleet ends up getting what they wanted anyway.

    On the Cylon side, the Hybrid is an incoherent ranting gibberish machine that may or may not see the mind of God. Leoben's a psychopathic theist. Diana and Caprica attempt to enslave humanity because they think God wants them to sort out their daddy issues by trying to force Humanity to love them. Boomer just doesn't want to fight. Cavil's a psychopathic atheist. Simon's quietly rational, though we never really hear his opinions on God. Doral is just kind of an all-around jackass, and again we never hear his views on God.

    Throughout the series, there are really only four key points that turned on some form of intervention by the divine: Baltar targeting the tylium refinery correctly, Kara's resurrection, Kara having the mandala on her apartment wall, and Kara punching in the jump coordinates from the song in her head. In three of those cases it's so very subtle that you can handwave it as "they got lucky/weird shit happens."

    Overwhelmingly, the series focuses on temporal conflict between individuals (sometimes involving their own notions of faith or lack thereof.) God's just around in the background. Religion is a part of life that influences people; prophecy is muddled and unclear and they force it into weird shapes and it ends up working, but sometimes their interpretation is wrong.

    "Have faith and God will reward you" is so very far away from the central theme of the series that it boggles my mind that people would try to assert it as such.

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  • BlazeFireBlazeFire Registered User regular
    BlazeFire wrote: »
    Richy wrote: »
    BlazeFire wrote: »
    Richy wrote: »
    BlazeFire wrote: »
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    Houn wrote: »
    He started as spoiled little shit that miraculously survived the near annihilation of the human race.
    He ended as a spoiled little shit with a cult and mental instability that miraculously survived the near annihilation of the human race.

    It doesn't really matter how much he did or didn't change, though, because the only reason he changed was because God needed him to change in order for God's plan to come to fruition.

    This is my point. By making this a story about God's Plan, instead of a story about Humanity Overcoming the Odds, all Humanity is removed from the story. Everything, and I mean literally everything, happens because it was in God's script. Baltar is the worst example to use, because any changes he underwent were entirely due to an invisible agent of God dragging him into them by the ear like a child.

    I think a lot of the message about God's Plan is based around the idea that A) you can be ignorant of it, or B) you can be opposed to it.

    It wasn't God's Plan that the Cylons and Humans had been murdering each other. It was God's Plan that they get along and start making babies.

    "God's Plan" in the show is little more than "hey, maybe we all shouldn't be horrible assholes to each other."

    Bullshit. Who do you think reanimated that corpse so it could pull a trigger to launch those nukes that killed off the remaining Cylons? Who do you think mind controlled everyone so they would agree to throw their space ships into the sun so they could quickly die off from disease, exposure, and predators? Except for Hera, who could live just long enough to start the newly dominate strain of humanoids before also dropping dead.

    God had clearly written off both humans and Cylons as failures. All he cared about was getting Hera to Earth to use as the genetic template for a new attempt.

    :shock: I need to rewatch BSG as I don't remember anything of what you are talking about, except for who Hera is.

    That's because it's all shit he made up. It's "Endor genocide" levels of aimless neck-beard fan-rage.

    I thought I spent enough time on the internet, but it must be a different internet. "Ender genocide" being the theory that OSCard wrote Ender as a Hitler-apologist?

    Not Ender, Endor. The moon the Ewoks live on. Some years ago some Star Wars neck beard calculated that the debris from the exploded death star raining down on Endor would be enough to wipe out all life on it. The Endor genocide that the Rebels are responsible for. It's a funny anecdote, but some fans take it esriously. It's quite simply reading way too much into the ending of Jedi, to the point of turning it into the opposite of the intended ending. HamHamJ does the same to the ending of BSG, with as much seriousness, and looks as ridiculous.

    Oh, wow. I just assumed that was a typo. I have never heard of that. Huh. I'm definitely hanging out in the wrong (right?) parts of the internet. Thanks.

    Dude, is that Ender's Game thing for real?

    If so, there's a movie coming up soon, so when the inevitable thread is created for it I have to know more. It's like, staring at a car wreck. It just has to be done.

    I only picked up on this recently, I think from the book thread.

    http://peachfront.diaryland.com/enderhitlte.html
    and another look by a different author:
    http://www4.ncsu.edu/~tenshi/Killer_000.htm

  • DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    As you'll notice by the date on that it's old news. Scifi only airs shit now, so there was no way they'd pick this up as it has the possibility to not be shit. They went off the rails when they cancelled Farscape a season early and never recovered.

    They cancelled Farscape because they weren't getting a big enough cut of the action figures.

    Seriously, it was their biggest hit, and they ended it at the height of its popularity because of sour grapes. So screw those guys.

    Gary Gygax wrote:
    ''The secret we should never let the gamemasters know is that they don't need any rules.''
  • Salvation122Salvation122 Registered User regular
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    Who do you think mind controlled everyone so they would agree to throw their space ships into the sun so they could quickly die off from disease, exposure, and predators?

    Cortez burned his ships for a reason.

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  • RichyRichy Registered User regular
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    Who do you think mind controlled everyone so they would agree to throw their space ships into the sun so they could quickly die off from disease, exposure, and predators?

    Cortez burned his ships for a reason.

    To motivate his people to go forward, kill the natives and plunder their cities.

    RichyFlag.gifsig.gif
  • Salvation122Salvation122 Registered User regular
    Richy wrote: »
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    Who do you think mind controlled everyone so they would agree to throw their space ships into the sun so they could quickly die off from disease, exposure, and predators?

    Cortez burned his ships for a reason.

    To motivate his people to go forward, kill the natives and plunder their cities.

    Or, more fundamentally, because whether they succeeded or perished, there was no going back. Which tends to focus one towards success.

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  • AManFromEarthAManFromEarth Their ideas are old and their ideas are bad. Risk is our business.Registered User regular
    Now that would have been an ending for the series, have the fleet come down into the atmosphere over Cortez on the beach.

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  • ThisThis Registered User regular
    Well, after seeing what they did with Caprica I can't say I'm all that disappointed that Blood & Chrome isn't happening.

    Reads the LoL thread more than he plays LoL
  • HounHoun Jump In Save the WorldRegistered User regular
    I think you misunderstood me, @Salvation122. I meant the viewer had to have faith for the ending to work, not the characters.

    camo_sig2.png
    Steam: DigitalArcanist | XBoxLive: DigitalArcanist | PSN: DigitalArcanist | Backloggery: Houn
  • DisrupterDisrupter Registered User regular
    So, Blood and Chrome is done-zo?

    Searching for the cancel-ation led me to a nifty unofficial trailer. I have to say it actually looked better than I expected (visually, didnt get much other then spaceships and robots from the trailer). Too bad we wont be getting any BSG. That being said, after Caprica, it is no longer something I have a ton of faith in.

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  • Salvation122Salvation122 Registered User regular
    Disrupter wrote: »
    So, Blood and Chrome is done-zo?

    Searching for the cancel-ation led me to a nifty unofficial trailer. I have to say it actually looked better than I expected (visually, didnt get much other then spaceships and robots from the trailer). Too bad we wont be getting any BSG. That being said, after Caprica, it is no longer something I have a ton of faith in.

    Caprica was a very good show by, like, the sixth or seventh episode. Just took way, way too long to get there.

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  • DisrupterDisrupter Registered User regular
    Yeah, maybe. I gave up when the mom went crazy and started yelling about how her daughter was a terrorist on live TV based on seeing some sort of necklace and no other evidence. Awesome, way to dick over your family, crazy lady. There was no forgiving that level of stupitidy.

    Also, every character seemed like a dick. BSG was great with every character having moments where youd root for them, and moments where you'd root against them. Caprica seemed to only have the latter.

    Didn't they also do some stupid twist at the end where the kid you assume is Adama ends up not being Adama?

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  • AtomikaAtomika (citation needed)Registered User regular
    Disrupter wrote: »
    So, Blood and Chrome is done-zo?

    Searching for the cancel-ation led me to a nifty unofficial trailer. I have to say it actually looked better than I expected (visually, didnt get much other then spaceships and robots from the trailer). Too bad we wont be getting any BSG. That being said, after Caprica, it is no longer something I have a ton of faith in.

    I think the plan, IIRC, is to air the two-hour pilot at some point on SyFy TBD, and then air the series on the web.

    Granted, studio execs say things all the time. If Blood & Chrome ends up being fuckawesome, there's no way it's not going to be aired on TV.

  • AtomikaAtomika (citation needed)Registered User regular
    Disrupter wrote: »
    Yeah, maybe. I gave up when the mom went crazy and started yelling about how her daughter was a terrorist on live TV based on seeing some sort of necklace and no other evidence. Awesome, way to dick over your family, crazy lady. There was no forgiving that level of stupitidy.

    Also, every character seemed like a dick. BSG was great with every character having moments where youd root for them, and moments where you'd root against them. Caprica seemed to only have the latter.

    Didn't they also do some stupid twist at the end where the kid you assume is Adama ends up not being Adama?

    Yes, Caprica's primary fault was having exactly zero redeemable characters. That show reminded me unfortunately a lot of Sarah Connor in that it had some great ideas and a brilliant premise, but continued to find the most boring and pointless stories to tell within that framework.

    Similarly, when facing cancellation, both shows started to get awesome again. The lesson here, I suppose, is "always write like you're being cancelled."

  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    Disrupter wrote: »
    Yeah, maybe. I gave up when the mom went crazy and started yelling about how her daughter was a terrorist on live TV based on seeing some sort of necklace and no other evidence. Awesome, way to dick over your family, crazy lady. There was no forgiving that level of stupitidy.

    Also, every character seemed like a dick. BSG was great with every character having moments where youd root for them, and moments where you'd root against them. Caprica seemed to only have the latter.

    Didn't they also do some stupid twist at the end where the kid you assume is Adama ends up not being Adama?

    The mother wasn't meant to be a sympathetic character in the first season. Thankfully she becomes likable in the second.

    I disagree that every character acted like a dick in Caprica. Zoe 2.0, Jordan Duram, Lacy Rand & second season Amanda Graystone were nice people IIRC. Been a while since I've watched the series, though.

    Harry Dresden on
  • LarsLars Registered User regular
    I watched Caprica more out of habit than actual enthusiasm.

    Up until the episode where...
    Spoiler:

    That's about the time I really started enjoying it. If I remember right, the announcement that the show would not be renewed for another season came the next day. Bah.

    As for the ending of BSG, I'm just sticking with the theory that...
    Spoiler:

    Of course, to really fix things it'd be better to just go back to early Season 3 and erase the entire concept of the "Final Five." That's the plot point that poisoned the rest of the series.
    Spoiler:

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  • AtomikaAtomika (citation needed)Registered User regular
    Disrupter wrote: »
    Yeah, maybe. I gave up when the mom went crazy and started yelling about how her daughter was a terrorist on live TV based on seeing some sort of necklace and no other evidence. Awesome, way to dick over your family, crazy lady. There was no forgiving that level of stupitidy.

    Also, every character seemed like a dick. BSG was great with every character having moments where youd root for them, and moments where you'd root against them. Caprica seemed to only have the latter.

    Didn't they also do some stupid twist at the end where the kid you assume is Adama ends up not being Adama?

    The mother wasn't meant to be a sympathetic character in the first season. Thankfully she becomes likable in the second.

    I disagree that every character acted like a dick in Caprica. Zoe 2.0, Jordan Duram, Lacy Rand & second season Amanda Graystone were nice people IIRC. Been a while since I've watched the series, though.

    Zoe 2.0 was, at best, neutral. Jordan Duram was a bit player with no real motivation, and Lacy Rand had no good excuse for being on the show after the first episode. Amanda's whole subplot about investigating the Apotheosis cult was so tedious that it maligns the good name of tedium.

    It was supposed to be Joe and Daniel's show, and it really was, but their dynamic was never really cemented with anything. This is highlighted by the fact that the finale basically forgets Tamara even existed.

    The only interesting thing in the whole show was HeadZoe. Well, the idea behind Apotheosis was pretty cool, but it was executed with the vigor of January molasses.

  • RichyRichy Registered User regular
    Lars wrote: »
    Kara's dad was supposed to be the 7th model Cylon, making her half-Cylon (likely rebuilt as a full Cylon post-death due to a confused resurrection facility or something, thus making her the 13th model). Of course, at some point in the final season they suddenly realize that if they do that then it totally destroys all the stuff they built about how special Hera is, so they had to nix that and simultaneously kill off Tigh's half-Cylon baby and reveal that Tyrol's wife cheated on him so his baby isn't half-Cylon either.

    See, I don't agree. Hera is special for being "the first of the new generation of God's children", which is true because she's the mitochondrial eve. That would remain true regardless of how many other half-human half-cylon are walking around. There could be hundreds of them, it still wouldn't change that Hera is the first of the lineage that resulted in modern humanity.

    Looking at it this way. They could re-interpret Roslyn's prophecy that "she would not see the promised land" from strongly implying she would not make it to Earth to actually meaning that she died five minutes before getting to the mountaintop where Adama would build the cabin they wanted. Why did Hera's prophecy had to be taken in the literal sense that she was the first human-cylon hybrid?

    RichyFlag.gifsig.gif
  • Salvation122Salvation122 Registered User regular
    Disrupter wrote: »
    Yeah, maybe. I gave up when the mom went crazy and started yelling about how her daughter was a terrorist on live TV based on seeing some sort of necklace and no other evidence. Awesome, way to dick over your family, crazy lady. There was no forgiving that level of stupitidy.

    Also, every character seemed like a dick. BSG was great with every character having moments where youd root for them, and moments where you'd root against them. Caprica seemed to only have the latter.

    Didn't they also do some stupid twist at the end where the kid you assume is Adama ends up not being Adama?

    Yes, Caprica's primary fault was having exactly zero redeemable characters. That show reminded me unfortunately a lot of Sarah Connor in that it had some great ideas and a brilliant premise, but continued to find the most boring and pointless stories to tell within that framework.

    Similarly, when facing cancellation, both shows started to get awesome again. The lesson here, I suppose, is "always write like you're being cancelled."

    Well, they'd already fired nearly all the writers and started doing cool stuff by the time the show was up for cancellation.

    Sometimes you don't realize your stuff isn't salvageable until it's on the editing table and by that point it's often too late.

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    sig.png
  • AtomikaAtomika (citation needed)Registered User regular
    Disrupter wrote: »
    Yeah, maybe. I gave up when the mom went crazy and started yelling about how her daughter was a terrorist on live TV based on seeing some sort of necklace and no other evidence. Awesome, way to dick over your family, crazy lady. There was no forgiving that level of stupitidy.

    Also, every character seemed like a dick. BSG was great with every character having moments where youd root for them, and moments where you'd root against them. Caprica seemed to only have the latter.

    Didn't they also do some stupid twist at the end where the kid you assume is Adama ends up not being Adama?

    Yes, Caprica's primary fault was having exactly zero redeemable characters. That show reminded me unfortunately a lot of Sarah Connor in that it had some great ideas and a brilliant premise, but continued to find the most boring and pointless stories to tell within that framework.

    Similarly, when facing cancellation, both shows started to get awesome again. The lesson here, I suppose, is "always write like you're being cancelled."

    Well, they'd already fired nearly all the writers and started doing cool stuff by the time the show was up for cancellation.

    Sometimes you don't realize your stuff isn't salvageable until it's on the editing table and by that point it's often too late.

    I think a lot of that had to do with David Eick wanting Caprica to be a lot more thinky-thinky and a lot less pew!pew!lasers!

    What failed was ultimately the realization that BSG succeeded because it was both intellectually and viscerally engaging, where Caprica was intellectually ponderous and viscerally benumbing.

    Blood & Chrome will probably over-correct and be very dumb and macho and full of exploding entrails.

  • HounHoun Jump In Save the WorldRegistered User regular
    On the subject of Mitochondrial Eve, this essay was fantastic, and points out the flaw rather nicely: http://ideas.4brad.com/battlestar/battlestars-daybreak-worst-ending-history-screen-science-fiction

    Relevant passage in the spoiler:
    Spoiler:

    camo_sig2.png
    Steam: DigitalArcanist | XBoxLive: DigitalArcanist | PSN: DigitalArcanist | Backloggery: Houn
  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    Disrupter wrote: »
    Yeah, maybe. I gave up when the mom went crazy and started yelling about how her daughter was a terrorist on live TV based on seeing some sort of necklace and no other evidence. Awesome, way to dick over your family, crazy lady. There was no forgiving that level of stupitidy.

    Also, every character seemed like a dick. BSG was great with every character having moments where youd root for them, and moments where you'd root against them. Caprica seemed to only have the latter.

    Didn't they also do some stupid twist at the end where the kid you assume is Adama ends up not being Adama?

    Yes, Caprica's primary fault was having exactly zero redeemable characters. That show reminded me unfortunately a lot of Sarah Connor in that it had some great ideas and a brilliant premise, but continued to find the most boring and pointless stories to tell within that framework.

    Similarly, when facing cancellation, both shows started to get awesome again. The lesson here, I suppose, is "always write like you're being cancelled."

    Well, they'd already fired nearly all the writers and started doing cool stuff by the time the show was up for cancellation.

    Sometimes you don't realize your stuff isn't salvageable until it's on the editing table and by that point it's often too late.

    I think a lot of that had to do with David Eick wanting Caprica to be a lot more thinky-thinky and a lot less pew!pew!lasers!

    What failed was ultimately the realization that BSG succeeded because it was both intellectually and viscerally engaging, where Caprica was intellectually ponderous and viscerally benumbing.

    Blood & Chrome will probably over-correct and be very dumb and macho and full of exploding entrails.

    Caprica was a resounding success in at least trying to be smart with its story lines. We're lucky it didn't become a turkey like Bionic Woman was. That said, I agree having less action after nBSG would be a mark against it from the fanbase.

  • AManFromEarthAManFromEarth Their ideas are old and their ideas are bad. Risk is our business.Registered User regular
    Houn wrote: »
    On the subject of Mitochondrial Eve, this essay was fantastic, and points out the flaw rather nicely: http://ideas.4brad.com/battlestar/battlestars-daybreak-worst-ending-history-screen-science-fiction

    Relevant passage in the spoiler:
    Spoiler:

    What a pedantic and worthless complaint. Like, the amount of neckbeard coming out of this excerpt alone...

    Lh96QHG.png
  • AtomikaAtomika (citation needed)Registered User regular
    Disrupter wrote: »
    Yeah, maybe. I gave up when the mom went crazy and started yelling about how her daughter was a terrorist on live TV based on seeing some sort of necklace and no other evidence. Awesome, way to dick over your family, crazy lady. There was no forgiving that level of stupitidy.

    Also, every character seemed like a dick. BSG was great with every character having moments where youd root for them, and moments where you'd root against them. Caprica seemed to only have the latter.

    Didn't they also do some stupid twist at the end where the kid you assume is Adama ends up not being Adama?

    Yes, Caprica's primary fault was having exactly zero redeemable characters. That show reminded me unfortunately a lot of Sarah Connor in that it had some great ideas and a brilliant premise, but continued to find the most boring and pointless stories to tell within that framework.

    Similarly, when facing cancellation, both shows started to get awesome again. The lesson here, I suppose, is "always write like you're being cancelled."

    Well, they'd already fired nearly all the writers and started doing cool stuff by the time the show was up for cancellation.

    Sometimes you don't realize your stuff isn't salvageable until it's on the editing table and by that point it's often too late.

    I think a lot of that had to do with David Eick wanting Caprica to be a lot more thinky-thinky and a lot less pew!pew!lasers!

    What failed was ultimately the realization that BSG succeeded because it was both intellectually and viscerally engaging, where Caprica was intellectually ponderous and viscerally benumbing.

    Blood & Chrome will probably over-correct and be very dumb and macho and full of exploding entrails.

    Caprica was a resounding success in at least trying to be smart with its story lines. We're lucky it didn't become a turkey like Bionic Woman was. That said, I agree having less action after nBSG would be a mark against it from the fanbase.

    I'd agree that the ideas that the storylines were predicated upon were fairly interesting (apotheosis, virtual existence, religion in a world with artificial humanity, robots with souls), but the handling of almost each and every plot was done so clumsily and boringly. It was too grim and too cynical.

  • HounHoun Jump In Save the WorldRegistered User regular
    Houn wrote: »
    On the subject of Mitochondrial Eve, this essay was fantastic, and points out the flaw rather nicely: http://ideas.4brad.com/battlestar/battlestars-daybreak-worst-ending-history-screen-science-fiction

    Relevant passage in the spoiler:
    Spoiler:

    What a pedantic and worthless complaint. Like, the amount of neckbeard coming out of this excerpt alone...

    ...and when your key marketing demographic is "neckbeards"?

    camo_sig2.png
    Steam: DigitalArcanist | XBoxLive: DigitalArcanist | PSN: DigitalArcanist | Backloggery: Houn
  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    Disrupter wrote: »
    Yeah, maybe. I gave up when the mom went crazy and started yelling about how her daughter was a terrorist on live TV based on seeing some sort of necklace and no other evidence. Awesome, way to dick over your family, crazy lady. There was no forgiving that level of stupitidy.

    Also, every character seemed like a dick. BSG was great with every character having moments where youd root for them, and moments where you'd root against them. Caprica seemed to only have the latter.

    Didn't they also do some stupid twist at the end where the kid you assume is Adama ends up not being Adama?

    Yes, Caprica's primary fault was having exactly zero redeemable characters. That show reminded me unfortunately a lot of Sarah Connor in that it had some great ideas and a brilliant premise, but continued to find the most boring and pointless stories to tell within that framework.

    Similarly, when facing cancellation, both shows started to get awesome again. The lesson here, I suppose, is "always write like you're being cancelled."

    Well, they'd already fired nearly all the writers and started doing cool stuff by the time the show was up for cancellation.

    Sometimes you don't realize your stuff isn't salvageable until it's on the editing table and by that point it's often too late.

    I think a lot of that had to do with David Eick wanting Caprica to be a lot more thinky-thinky and a lot less pew!pew!lasers!

    What failed was ultimately the realization that BSG succeeded because it was both intellectually and viscerally engaging, where Caprica was intellectually ponderous and viscerally benumbing.

    Blood & Chrome will probably over-correct and be very dumb and macho and full of exploding entrails.

    Caprica was a resounding success in at least trying to be smart with its story lines. We're lucky it didn't become a turkey like Bionic Woman was. That said, I agree having less action after nBSG would be a mark against it from the fanbase.

    I'd agree that the ideas that the storylines were predicated upon were fairly interesting (apotheosis, virtual existence, religion in a world with artificial humanity, robots with souls), but the handling of almost each and every plot was done so clumsily and boringly. It was too grim and too cynical.

    The grimness and cynicalness made it more realistic IMO. When the protagonists family and friends are killed in a terrorist attack they're not going to happy people. It would effect them deeply after that. Plus adding in ties with organized crime, there's enough reason for everyone to emotionally down. That said, you're right it could have been executed better.

  • Kipling217Kipling217 Registered User regular
    Caprica basically wasted the first 9 episodes of its series with pointless meandering. It had one good episode that focused on Tamara 2.0 and her adventures in the virtual world, but apart from that it was a waste of time. Daniel was involved in some pointless corporate intrigue that lead nowhere. Lacy Rand was involved in religious terrorism that when nowhere and Zoe was flirting with a corporate lackey guy that ultimately went you guessed it nowhere.

    The last 9 episodes ditched most of these plots as fast as they could. No wonder it got good. The last episode was what Caprica could have been and it makes me sad to this day how much potential was lost. The only loss of Tamara lessened the episode.

    Communicating from the last of the Babylon Stations.
  • AtomikaAtomika (citation needed)Registered User regular
    The grimness and cynicalness made it more realistic IMO. When the protagonists family and friends are killed in a terrorist attack they're not going to happy people. It would effect them deeply after that. Plus adding in ties with organized crime, there's enough reason for everyone to emotionally down. That said, you're right it could have been executed better.

    Well, Daniel successfully brought Zoe and Tamara back from the dead (in a way), so his reasons for grimdarkery were pretty thin.

    I don't know. Everyone always just seemed either pissed off or deflated or shifty. A show has to have a moral compass for the audience to connect with, and Caprica failed to establish either Joseph or Daniel as likable enough to care about. They were just a couple of surly, unscrupulous douchebags who treated their families like shit.


    Take another show, like Deadwood. Almost every character in that show is a morally-bankrupt bag of shit, except Seth Bullock and Bill Hickok and Alma Garrett, and it's through their struggles to maintain a moral center amidst all the filth that keeps the audience engaged. Characters like Al and Trixie and Cy are interesting because they represent the various measures that people can fall away from that center, but they can't carry the show, because broken characters stay broken.

    And that's the problem with Caprica in a nutshell. Daniel and Joe proved too early and too often that they were broken, craven men, and after that happened we had nothing in them to root for.

  • AManFromEarthAManFromEarth Their ideas are old and their ideas are bad. Risk is our business.Registered User regular
    Houn wrote: »
    Houn wrote: »
    On the subject of Mitochondrial Eve, this essay was fantastic, and points out the flaw rather nicely: http://ideas.4brad.com/battlestar/battlestars-daybreak-worst-ending-history-screen-science-fiction

    Relevant passage in the spoiler:
    Spoiler:

    What a pedantic and worthless complaint. Like, the amount of neckbeard coming out of this excerpt alone...

    ...and when your key marketing demographic is "neckbeards"?

    That's a mistake, nothing on Sci Fi has ever been marketed to a key demographic of "neckbeard" because they are unwinnable.

    Lh96QHG.png
  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    The grimness and cynicalness made it more realistic IMO. When the protagonists family and friends are killed in a terrorist attack they're not going to happy people. It would effect them deeply after that. Plus adding in ties with organized crime, there's enough reason for everyone to emotionally down. That said, you're right it could have been executed better.

    Well, Daniel successfully brought Zoe and Tamara back from the dead (in a way), so his reasons for grimdarkery were pretty thin.

    He didn't really consider them "real", just fascinating A.I.'s who thought they were his daughter and her friend. A major story line for Daniel through the series was to accept Zoe 2.0 as a person, not a neat looking tool.
    I don't know. Everyone always just seemed either pissed off or deflated or shifty. A show has to have a moral compass for the audience to connect with, and Caprica failed to establish either Joseph or Daniel as likable enough to care about. They were just a couple of surly, unscrupulous douchebags who treated their families like shit.


    Take another show, like Deadwood. Almost every character in that show is a morally-bankrupt bag of shit, except Seth Bullock and Bill Hickok and Alma Garrett, and it's through their struggles to maintain a moral center amidst all the filth that keeps the audience engaged. Characters like Al and Trixie and Cy are interesting because they represent the various measures that people can fall away from that center, but they can't carry the show, because broken characters stay broken.

    And that's the problem with Caprica in a nutshell. Daniel and Joe proved too early and too often that they were broken, craven men, and after that happened we had nothing in them to root for.

    True. They definitely needed Daniel, Joe or both to remain sympathetic to the audience since they were the main characters.

    Harry Dresden on
  • LanlaornLanlaorn Registered User regular
    So thanks to this thread I watched the leaked trailer. And now I am sad =/

  • AtomikaAtomika (citation needed)Registered User regular
    Lanlaorn wrote: »
    So thanks to this thread I watched the leaked trailer. And now I am sad =/

    Don't be. Chances are you'll see the B&C pilot at some point. Just probably not a series.

  • shrykeshryke Registered User regular
    Chances are it will be an explody-shooty pointless mess that misses everything that made BSG good.

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