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[Mini] Deus Ex Phalla - Vandenburg Scientists Victorious

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Posts

  • Orange SodaOrange Soda Registered User
    edited August 2009
    shalmelo wrote: »
    Who the fuck was Paul Denton and why did you kill me?

    That was me. Sorry bout that - I had to leave a full 8 hours before vote close and nobody gave me a target. I came this close to actively trying to stir shit up and vigging thelawinator, but got talked out of it by my brother. You were basically a random choice after that...

    No hard feelings, just wanted to hear the reason :P

    Spoiler:
  • BurnageBurnage Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    I would be a lot more willing to hear what you have to teach about phallas if your corrections were not worded in ways that also seem like attempts to belittle and demean.

    Your error is thinking that Spork has anything to teach.

    MJ-12 really should have done better than they did. Those are the best cover identities I think I've ever seen in a game.

  • Rawkking GoodguyRawkking Goodguy Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    I kinda wonder how it would have played out if Duna had joined one of the factions at day 0. Did the cover identities come with vanillager info as well?

    Edit: Ok, those are pretty fantastic.

  • BremenBremen Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    More mistakes I made:

    I really shouldn't have made some villagers start knowing faction members, but I wanted to give recruitment a kickstart. Turns out when Burnage came knocking they happily provided the names of the faction members (Imagine if Burnage had been MJ12. Just imagine it), which gave him a way to pry the door open on factions that otherwise would have ignored the role call. This is really something I should have predicted and entirely my fault.

    I didn't specify that it was a faction game enough; I should have had a stronger wording in the op that there were several factions working against each other, it wasn't your standard Phalla Mafia vs Everyone. I think this both would have helped MJ12 stay alive longer and cut down on the outrage when the factions inevitably betrayed each other.

    I tried to follow the Deus Ex PC game too closely, I really should have given the factions more generic victory conditions. The game should have lasted at least 5 days except, but since they had goals and, due to Burn's role call and bad luck for MJ12, they knew exactly who to target and didn't have to waste any kills. This had the side effect of an absolutely spectacular villager survival rate.

    On the Dentons victory condition: The idea was to make the Dentons powerful allies to whoever could help them fulfill their win condition, in most cases the largest neutral faction. I intended for the game to have all the factions fighting for recruits, both for the villagers powers and the Denton's vigs. Obviously it didn't really turn out this way. This is also why the number of players joining each faction was specified in each night's narration.

    Also, one of the unpopular rules, No vote retractions. Despite apparent opinions to the contrary, I never intended stuff like iamtheaznman to happen, that was just a fluke based on how Burnage did the role call. In most cases all evidence would be from the previous narration, without anything new surfacing during the day, so there was unlikely to be a sudden vote shift. The real reason for the no retractions was to help cover the gray death vote blackmail, so someone wouldn't have to come up explanations for why they weren't changing their vote to get on the bandwagon each day.

  • Orange SodaOrange Soda Registered User
    edited August 2009
    I kinda liked the no retraction thing actually. It added a new element I have never played with before, which I am always a fan of. I am very much a fan of hosts adding one thing as a cover for more secret mechanics.

    Spoiler:
  • dunedainjedidunedainjedi Registered User
    edited August 2009
    Yeah I thought the no retractions was interesting.

    And we already learned the most important thing possible. Don't go and try to start the next bandwagon 30 seconds after the narration.

  • NocturneNocturne Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    I will agree that no retractions was an interesting mechanic. I can't quite say I prefer it, but it was something new and interesting for sure.

  • BurnageBurnage Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    I get the feeling that no retractions somewhat led to more inactivity in the main thread, but it was definitely an interesting mechanic.

    One thing I wasn't fond of, however, was villagers starting with no win condition whatsoever. Combine that with population caps in the factions, and, well... sucks to be some of the villagers, I guess?

  • SeriouslySeriously ˈpɛrɪ ˌdɒt Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Erich Zahn wrote: »
    But we didn't. I don't know why but somehow nobody invited us into their networks.

    Seriously and Egos got stuff from me...

    Say what?

    iq16sKi.png
  • SeriouslySeriously ˈpɛrɪ ˌdɒt Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    By the way, who were the players that "joined" the Majestic 12?

    iq16sKi.png
  • BremenBremen Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    They didn't join, they were "Aligned with" Majestic 12. They were the ones who got infected with Gray Death, which gave them an MJ12 is victorious victory condition.

  • SeriouslySeriously ˈpɛrɪ ˌdɒt Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
  • NocturneNocturne Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Oh that's another thing. I'm not a big fan of "minor" win conditions, and I don't think I'm alone here.

    If being infected with the Gray Death would have given me an alternate major win condition with MJ-12, more shenanigans might have ensued.

    Well, probably not due to the short duration, but it would have given me a reason to consider it. Like I said to Lawinator, a minor win condition is like a consolation prize. Except in phalla, who cares about consolation prizes? Since a general rule of phalla is to play to your win condition, the minor condition would be ignored by most people if it went against the major condition.

    I mean I guess it could vary from player to player, but that's my 2 cents.

  • BremenBremen Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    That's definitely a valid point, but I'm very cautious about involuntary conversion mechanics.

  • NocturneNocturne Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Yeah, that's why making it an alternate major win condition would have given people the option to work with either faction, and backstab based on shifts in power between the two.

    Just a thought.

  • SeriouslySeriously ˈpɛrɪ ˌdɒt Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Those are kind of rough. Conversion's just a tricky thing in general.

    iq16sKi.png
  • HippieHippie Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Nocturne wrote: »
    Oh that's another thing. I'm not a big fan of "minor" win conditions, and I don't think I'm alone here.

    If being infected with the Gray Death would have given me an alternate major win condition with MJ-12, more shenanigans might have ensued.

    Well, probably not due to the short duration, but it would have given me a reason to consider it. Like I said to Lawinator, a minor win condition is like a consolation prize. Except in phalla, who cares about consolation prizes? Since a general rule of phalla is to play to your win condition, the minor condition would be ignored by most people if it went against the major condition.

    I mean I guess it could vary from player to player, but that's my 2 cents.

    I dont know, I kind of like minor win conditions. Gives you something else to do. As long as they're interesting of course.

  • WildcatWildcat Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    So how about those dashingly handsome Dentons, eh?

  • TheLawinatorTheLawinator Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Wildcat wrote: »
    So how about those dashingly handsome Dentons, eh?

    You and me are one.

    My SteamID Gamertag and PSN: TheLawinator
  • BurnageBurnage Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Wildcat wrote: »
    So how about those dashingly handsome Dentons, eh?

    You and me are one.

    :winky:

  • SpectrumSpectrum Super High-School Level ??? Hope's Peak AcademyRegistered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Burnage wrote: »
    I would be a lot more willing to hear what you have to teach about phallas if your corrections were not worded in ways that also seem like attempts to belittle and demean.

    Your error is thinking that Spork has anything to teach.
    Point of order: The error is in assuming that Spork is in any way, shape, or form interested in teaching to begin with.

    Interesting game to watch, Bremen. At least you got some hosting experience out of it.

    But perhaps a less complicated game would have been a better first start. =X

    (Kudos for the layering of your cover ID abilities for MJ-12 with their real abilities, though.)

  • NocturneNocturne Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Spectrum where the fuck have you been I have a grudge vote I need to throw at you.

  • SpectrumSpectrum Super High-School Level ??? Hope's Peak AcademyRegistered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Nocturne wrote: »
    Spectrum where the fuck have you been I have a grudge vote I need to throw at you.
    You should come into IRC. I'm always there, if not actually there.

  • TheLawinatorTheLawinator Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Burnage wrote: »
    Wildcat wrote: »
    So how about those dashingly handsome Dentons, eh?

    You and me are one.

    :winky:

    You can join too.

    My SteamID Gamertag and PSN: TheLawinator
  • NocturneNocturne Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Ah, I think the IRC mafia games are always when I'm at work but I may have to stop in for the hilarity.

  • SpectrumSpectrum Super High-School Level ??? Hope's Peak AcademyRegistered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Nocturne wrote: »
    Ah, I think the IRC mafia games are always when I'm at work but I may have to stop in for the hilarity.
    Oh, I don't actually play. I'm mostly there to chat with B:L and Dac about...things.

  • EgosEgos God Hand Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    yes

    XBL: Invisible Man PSN: Indrik
  • lonelyahavalonelyahava One day, I will be able to say to myself "I am beautiful and I am perfect just the way I am"Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    It was definitely enjoyable to watch.

    Even more interesting for me, seeing as I was talking to Brem through most of it.

    You did a good job, Brem. Especially for such a complex game as your first one.

    and despite his.... odd enthusiasm... Rawwking (or whatever his name is) Was actually pretty good at playing. From what I saw from the outside.

    He musta been hella lurking in our games lately.

    Lemming. Welcome. Stick around. You won't be able to leave.

    My Little Corner of the World || I am ravelried! || My Steam!
    You have to fight through some bad days, to earn the best days of your life.
  • TheLawinatorTheLawinator Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    It was definitely enjoyable to watch.

    Even more interesting for me, seeing as I was talking to Brem through most of it.

    You did a good job, Brem. Especially for such a complex game as your first one.

    and despite his.... odd enthusiasm... Rawwking (or whatever his name is) Was actually pretty good at playing. From what I saw from the outside.

    He musta been hella lurking in our games lately.

    Lemming. Welcome. Stick around. You won't be able to leave.

    No comments for me? I'm expecting something negative.

    My SteamID Gamertag and PSN: TheLawinator
  • NocturneNocturne Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Oh, one more thing, since this was your first phalla and I'm trying to think of anything that could help with balance in the future. I liked the idea that everyone started off with a unique piece of information. However, I'm pretty sure my piece, which gave the exact number of members each faction started with, was integral for the semi-breaking the game.

    Just some food for thought, but it's always good to think how much a piece of information like that can be abused by a roll call or something.

  • DaiusDaius Registered User
    edited August 2009
    I have skul-gun and can of Orange.

    All is good in world.

    bigbosssig.png
  • WildcatWildcat Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Wildcat wrote: »
    So how about those dashingly handsome Dentons, eh?

    You and me are one.
    The problem is we are also the Internet, so I'm pretty sure we are also 4chan too.

  • Dunadan019Dunadan019 Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    having every villager start out in masoned pairs turned out to be an INCREDIBLY TERRIBLE IDEA

  • NocturneNocturne Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Dunadan019 wrote: »
    having every villager start out in masoned pairs turned out to be an INCREDIBLY TERRIBLE IDEA

    I don't think it's necessarily a horrible idea for a faction phalla, but in combination with other things it helped make the role-call possible.

  • BurnageBurnage Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Dunadan019 wrote: »
    having every villager start out in masoned pairs turned out to be an INCREDIBLY TERRIBLE IDEA

    Not using your incredibly powerful cover identity abilities on day one turned out to be an INCREDIBLY TERRIBLE IDEA.

  • Dunadan019Dunadan019 Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Burnage wrote: »
    Dunadan019 wrote: »
    having every villager start out in masoned pairs turned out to be an INCREDIBLY TERRIBLE IDEA

    Not using your incredibly powerful cover identity abilities on day one turned out to be an INCREDIBLY TERRIBLE IDEA.

    I thought I had a day at least....

    no it turns out we were done in on day 0.

    having 1 kill ability for the mafia that was tied to 1 character meant that we would have to make the game last 10 days to win while we still had the kill....

  • NocturneNocturne Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Dunadan019 wrote: »
    Burnage wrote: »
    Dunadan019 wrote: »
    having every villager start out in masoned pairs turned out to be an INCREDIBLY TERRIBLE IDEA

    Not using your incredibly powerful cover identity abilities on day one turned out to be an INCREDIBLY TERRIBLE IDEA.

    I thought I had a day at least....

    And this is why you weren't thinking like a player who started neutral.

    As a general rule, we wanted to get aligned with someone as quickly as possible, seeing as it was the only way we could even get a win condition.

  • BurnageBurnage Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Dunadan019 wrote: »
    having 1 kill ability for the mafia that was tied to 1 character meant that we would have to make the game last 10 days to win while we still had the kill....

    If you had had a standard mafia win condition, I'd agree. Treating this game like a normal phalla wasn't only a problem for the village.

  • Dunadan019Dunadan019 Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Burnage wrote: »
    Dunadan019 wrote: »
    having 1 kill ability for the mafia that was tied to 1 character meant that we would have to make the game last 10 days to win while we still had the kill....

    If you had had a standard mafia win condition, I'd agree. Treating this game like a normal phalla wasn't only a problem for the village.

    you think we could have convinced 10 other people on day one that voting for a random phrase would have beena possible?

    no.

    how many days would it take for us to control the vote assuming that none of us died and we didn't try to grey death anyone who was immune... 5
    Nocturne wrote:
    And this is why you weren't thinking like a player who started neutral.

    As a general rule, we wanted to get aligned with someone as quickly as possible, seeing as it was the only way we could even get a win condition.

    except if you picked the wrong faction, you lost!

    the main problem was that splitting everyone into masoned pairs meant that as soon as you knew one you confirmed the other so the 5 person mafia had only 7 people to hide behind during a role call.

  • WildcatWildcat Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    I didn't have a mason :( I feel so alone.

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