I rather like the idea of Jason being a Dick foil as opposed to Bruce. Dick has that brother aspect to it that just makes it work better when they conflict in regards to fighting crime or cleaning up the city.
Bruce has his "I'm always right forever and ever" stance that wouldn't be fun to see after the 50th Todd appearance
Jason should just have stayed dead, he was a good example to Bruce of why he shouldn't be bringing fucking children into the world of cirme fighting/ They all started before Bruce did and as people in the comic keep saying, they aren't Bruce.
Plus it had the added sting of being delivered by the Joker, the guy he keeps entrusting to the system. His failure there was massive and was a burden for him to bear. Now he's just 'fuck that douche'
These things you are complaining about things dealing with the comics business, fans and editors, not the characters.
I really enjoyed Morrison's take on Jason but it was pretty limited. Winick has certainly developed Jason to a much, much greater degree, and I agree that it's good, also.
By develop do you mean "make my favourite character from childhood into the biggest most badass character that can totally outsmart Batman and should never've been killed in the first place"? Cause that's what Winick did.
I really enjoyed Morrison's take on Jason but it was pretty limited. Winick has certainly developed Jason to a much, much greater degree, and I agree that it's good, also.
By develop do you mean "make my favourite character from childhood into the biggest most badass character that can totally outsmart Batman and should never've been killed in the first place"? Cause that's what Winick did.
Hm, I don't know about that
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Linespider5ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGERRegistered Userregular
I really hope they run with the Red Hood persona he rediscovered and improved upon in the Batman and Robin book. I think that's the logical place where Todd's character can exist in the DCU and trying to force him to either try and reform or be a rouge in the same sense as Two-Face or Joker would just be too much.
I'd really like to see some designs on this. The Red Hood has been cool and all, but if it's going to be Jason-and I agree that Jason staying as the Red Hood makes the most sense-there's almost no point keeping the opaque diving helmet. I know it's iconic and everything, but I think it would be cool to come up with something that wasn't a completely featureless fiberglass shell for a face. Might actually whip some designs together or something...
Does that seem like it might be significant, or is it just one of those things?
Seems pretty obvious what that imagery is playing on, but whether or not that's "significant" is probably up to you.
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Linespider5ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGERRegistered Userregular
edited July 2010
Ok, so, I read Batman Odyssey.
At least I think I did. I have no idea what the plot is about, except maybe that Ra's is a manbat, and there are people who hate hydrogen-powered cars?
At least I think I did. I have no idea what the plot is about, except maybe that Ra's is a manbat, and there are people who hate hydrogen-powered cars?
Reminded me of Howard Chaykin.
Right? Odyssey was a mess in way I've not ever experienced, I think. I kind of liked it because of how completely ridiculous and nonsensical it was. Kiiiiiiiind of.
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TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
edited July 2010
Odyssey was good. I just took it as Neal Adams being as unflinching in his characterization of Batman as Frank Miller is over in ASB&R.
I mean, besides the fact that the writing was complete nonsense, Odyssey was pretty good, yes. ;-)
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augustwhere you come from is goneRegistered Userregular
edited July 2010
There is a precedent for Neal Adams being somewhat nonsensical.
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Just_Bri_ThanksSeething with ragefrom a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPAregular
edited July 2010
I am all for anything that busts Damien's chops. He has a need for acceptance? Fine, then he can put away the "Better than you" attitude. Because he is not better than anyone in the company that he keeps.
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...and when you are done with that; take a folding
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
I am all for anything that busts Damien's chops. He has a need for acceptance? Fine, then he can put away the "Better than you" attitude. Because he is not better than anyone in the company that he keeps.
He is rich by blood rather than adoption. And hes not adopted.
He does have that.
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Werewolf2000adSuckers, I know exactly what went wrong.Registered Userregular
Does that seem like it might be significant, or is it just one of those things?
Seems pretty obvious what that imagery is playing on, but whether or not that's "significant" is probably up to you.
I'm very sorry.
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EVERYBODY WANTS TO SIT IN THE BIG CHAIR, MEG!
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
edited July 2010
It's pretty blatant, RAGE. Not to say it's bad, because it is something of a good idea in a Robin getting his revenge kind of thing. But it's not exactly a subtle callback.
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Garlic Breadi'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm aRegistered User, Disagreeableregular
edited July 2010
Bruce Wayne is back – but what has he returned to?
In his absence, his closest allies and deadliest enemies have blazed a new path, creating a Gotham that’s different and in many ways more menacing than the city he left behind. So, how do his protégés, allies and foes react to the man that stands before them?
Is Batgirl’s career over? Red Robin was right – but what’s next? After mourning Bruce Wayne’s death, can Catwoman face him?
Welcome to BRUCE WAYNE: THE ROAD HOME, eight one-shots that cover the city of Gotham and beyond, from Dick Grayson and Damian to the Birds of Prey to Red Robin to Commissioner Gordon in stories told by some of the industry’s brightest stars, including Adam Beechen, Fabian Nicieza, Mike Barr, Pere Perez, Ramon Bachs, Marc Andreyko, Cliff Richards and Bryan Q. Miller, featuring a connecting, 8-part cover by superstar artist Shane Davis.
All these questions and more will be answered. But surely we can throw down a few more teases, right? Take it away, Batman Group Editor Mike Marts:
“Bruce Wayne’s journey back home has been a long and dangerous road, but before he can assume the mantle of the Bat again, he must first figure out how things have changed in the world around him, how relationships have changed…and how those changes will effect his decisions moving forward as the protector of Gotham City.”
BRUCE WAYNE: THE ROAD HOME begins in October.
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Garlic Breadi'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm aRegistered User, Disagreeableregular
edited July 2010
"the industry's brightest stars"
the only stars there are Fabian Nicieza and Mike Barr
I mean, I like a few of the other creators but stars they are not
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TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
edited July 2010
They're still being quiet on the new Finch ongoing, I wonder if this is something to come out for a few months to give him time (remember there was some talk about getting Image-like artists to help out because Finch was going so slow?). That's why when I see names like Bachs or Pere Perez I think fill-ins.
I'm just so bummed Batman's getting all the good books right now and Superman gets a cheese steak sandwich.
TexiKen on
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Garlic Breadi'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm aRegistered User, Disagreeableregular
edited July 2010
cheesesteaks are awesome
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CorporateLogoThe toilet knowshow I feelRegistered Userregular
edited July 2010
But they'll clog his arteries with super-cholesterol
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Do not have a cow, mortal.
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Linespider5ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGERRegistered Userregular
edited July 2010
Call me crazy, but I figured regardless of the circumstances he finds, Bruce will return to Batman without missing a beat. It might be good, but right now this sounds like Hesitation Fluff to me.
Aside from Morrison, everyone writes Batman just like its Bruce still in the cowl anyways, so not like we'll notice a difference. However, I'd rather see a Batman Corps-like setup with Bruce and Dick (maybe even Tim) both wearing the cowl and occasionally working together. If they went with all 3 of them (Tim's really come into his own in Red Robin and I hate that costume/name so putting the Bat suit on like in Battle for the Cowl would be a fine option to me), they could have each Bat title star a different Batman. Tim could handle detective work in DC, Bruce could be in Batman and Dick could continue with Morrison on Batman & Robin. We've got multiple Flashes, Green Lanterns (earth based ones, not just a corps) and Captain Americas, so why not Batman? Not like there's a lack of crime in Gotham.
Bruce Wayne is back – but what has he returned to?
In his absence, his closest allies and deadliest enemies have blazed a new path, creating a Gotham that’s different and in many ways more menacing than the city he left behind. So, how do his protégés, allies and foes react to the man that stands before them?
Is Batgirl’s career over? Red Robin was right – but what’s next? After mourning Bruce Wayne’s death, can Catwoman face him?
Welcome to BRUCE WAYNE: THE ROAD HOME, eight one-shots that cover the city of Gotham and beyond, from Dick Grayson and Damian to the Birds of Prey to Red Robin to Commissioner Gordon in stories told by some of the industry’s brightest stars, including Adam Beechen, Fabian Nicieza, Mike Barr, Pere Perez, Ramon Bachs, Marc Andreyko, Cliff Richards and Bryan Q. Miller, featuring a connecting, 8-part cover by superstar artist Shane Davis.
All these questions and more will be answered. But surely we can throw down a few more teases, right? Take it away, Batman Group Editor Mike Marts:
“Bruce Wayne’s journey back home has been a long and dangerous road, but before he can assume the mantle of the Bat again, he must first figure out how things have changed in the world around him, how relationships have changed…and how those changes will effect his decisions moving forward as the protector of Gotham City.”
BRUCE WAYNE: THE ROAD HOME begins in October.
Can't help but immediately recall the Battle for the Cowl tie-ins here, but we'll see.
Aside from Morrison, everyone writes Batman just like its Bruce still in the cowl anyways, so not like we'll notice a difference. However, I'd rather see a Batman Corps-like setup with Bruce and Dick (maybe even Tim) both wearing the cowl and occasionally working together. If they went with all 3 of them (Tim's really come into his own in Red Robin and I hate that costume/name so putting the Bat suit on like in Battle for the Cowl would be a fine option to me), they could have each Bat title star a different Batman. Tim could handle detective work in DC, Bruce could be in Batman and Dick could continue with Morrison on Batman & Robin. We've got multiple Flashes, Green Lanterns (earth based ones, not just a corps) and Captain Americas, so why not Batman? Not like there's a lack of crime in Gotham.
Yeah they've not really explored having a different Batman around, Dick displays teh exact same foresight and total knowledge of everything for every situation and the same will to do that job every night without the same psychosis required to pull it off.
Man I still like Dick as Batman. Would love multiple Batmen.
Grant Morrison has hinted in interviews that Bruce's return won't necessarily mean an end to Dick as Batman, or Bruce's return to the cowl by default. Who knows what will actually happen, though. Still, this is Batman & Robin #16's cover...
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Garlic Breadi'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm aRegistered User, Disagreeableregular
Hot off the white-hot start to his ACTION COMICS run, writer Paul Cornell turns his sharp pen to the Batman universe, and takes on the Dynamic Duo’s across-the-pond colleagues – Knight and Squire! Teaming with interior artist Jimmy Broxton and cover artist Yanick Paquette, the six-issue mini-series puts the spotlight on the London counterparts to Batman and Robin.
When the barriers preventing an all-out battle in a secret city populated by heroes and villains alike are lifted, all hell breaks loose and only the Knight and Squire can step in to put things write. But can the tandem keep the peace between friends and foe?
What say you, Mr. Cornell?
“I’m delighted to be working in DC Britain! Grant always said that he added something to the Knight and Squire’s world with every appearance: we’ll be taking that policy, and the amount of over the top weird and wonderful zany surreal Britishness and dialling them up to eleven. If you’ve wanted to see a milkman fighting a dinosaur in a suit, in a pub, then this is the comic for you.”
You think it's just marketing or is DC actually lying to itself?
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TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
edited July 2010
Davis hasn't done enough work to be considered a big name talent.
He did the retcon issue of bringing Jason Todd back, half that Captain Comet mini around IC, that one issue of JLA with the JSA crossover, and the Rage of the Red Lanterns one-shot, and the upcoming Earth One Superman story that hasn't been released yet.
Knight and Squire sounds good though. Will it sell better than MI-13 did?
TexiKen on
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Linespider5ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGERRegistered Userregular
edited July 2010
Somehow I imagine there's going to be a fair overlap of B&R fans trying it out. Morrison's done a rather decent job showing off Knight and Squire here and there through his Bat-work, but also making it clear we're only getting brief appearances of what's possible with the characters. It would be nice if that's enough to give something this unique a good shelf life.
stories told by some of the industry’s brightest stars, including Adam Beechen
Bahahaha.
I like a couple of writers in that list but the entire thing smells of editorial getting their greasy unwashed hands in and trying to run it themselves. It's worked so well in the past (just look at Resurrection of Ra's Al Ghul, Countdown and Battle for the Cowl), so why not do it again?
On the other hand, Knight and Squire sounds pretty awesome. Unlike Action Comics, Cornell won't be tied down by the shambling crap that was Blackest Night, so I'm eagerly anticipating it.
We promised big news. It doesn’t get much bigger than this.
When we announced superstar artist David Finch was going to be joining the ranks of the DC NATION, it was with the news that he’d be handling the covers on BRIGHTEST DAY and ACTION COMICS. But not only is Finch a all-star caliber cover artist, he’s a master storyteller. Fans got a taste of the compelling narrative Finch can create visually with the pages he did in BATMAN #700, paired with writer Grant Morrison.
But we can now add another credit to Finch’s vast resume: writer/artist.
Of an ongoing Batman series.
Starting in November, Finch will take the reins of BATMAN: THE DARK KNIGHT, a new ongoing Batman title featuring the hyper-detailed and kinetic artwork Finch has become known for plus his unique and yet classic interpretation of the Caped Crusader.
Can’t wait until November? The fun begins in October, with BATMAN: THE RETURN, a one-shot featuring Finch’s masterful pencils and words by Morrison, kicking off a new era for the Dark Knight and giving fans a quick taste of what’s coming in the new ongoing.
So what does Finch have in store for readers, both art-wise and as the writer? We caught up with him to get the lowdown on the new book:
“I’ve made no secret of the fact that I’ve wanted to draw Batman for a very, very long time. Batman and his world embody everything that I love about Superhero comics, and I could not be happier that I’ve gotten this opportunity!
Maybe the greatest thing about Batman is his versatility as a character. He can be so many things to so many people. For me though, the Neal Adams, Denny O’Neil issues from the early 70’s are the most definitive. That work casts a very long shadow over every Batman book that has come out since, and I think its a testament to it’s strength that close to 40 years later it remains modern and vital. Batman is at his best with his hands dirty, chasing the worst of the worst with everything on the line. He’s a detective, first and foremost. But he’s also the enforcer. Nobody gets away with crime under Batman’s watch, and he makes sure they think twice before they step over the line again.
The Dark Knight takes Batman outside what he knows, into a world of demonology, dark arts, and mystery. He’s the ultimate detective, faster, stronger and smarter than any villian, but now he faces creatures to whom logic and mortality don’t apply.
I want Dark Knight to be true to Batman’s street level, crime fighter roots. He’ll face a rogues gallery that we’re all familiar with, but this book will take him on a darker path where he’ll be stretched to his physical and psychological limits.”
BATMAN: THE DARK KNIGHT #1 hits in November.
So, the only one shot I need to buy is the Return? Okay. Now will someone just tell me which ongoing Morrison is going to be on already so I can set up my pull list?
Posts
These things you are complaining about things dealing with the comics business, fans and editors, not the characters.
By develop do you mean "make my favourite character from childhood into the biggest most badass character that can totally outsmart Batman and should never've been killed in the first place"? Cause that's what Winick did.
Hm, I don't know about that
I'd really like to see some designs on this. The Red Hood has been cool and all, but if it's going to be Jason-and I agree that Jason staying as the Red Hood makes the most sense-there's almost no point keeping the opaque diving helmet. I know it's iconic and everything, but I think it would be cool to come up with something that wasn't a completely featureless fiberglass shell for a face. Might actually whip some designs together or something...
Does that seem like it might be significant, or is it just one of those things?
Seems pretty obvious what that imagery is playing on, but whether or not that's "significant" is probably up to you.
At least I think I did. I have no idea what the plot is about, except maybe that Ra's is a manbat, and there are people who hate hydrogen-powered cars?
Reminded me of Howard Chaykin.
Right? Odyssey was a mess in way I've not ever experienced, I think. I kind of liked it because of how completely ridiculous and nonsensical it was. Kiiiiiiiind of.
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
He is rich by blood rather than adoption. And hes not adopted.
He does have that.
I'm very sorry.
EVERYBODY WANTS TO SIT IN THE BIG CHAIR, MEG!
the only stars there are Fabian Nicieza and Mike Barr
I mean, I like a few of the other creators but stars they are not
I'm just so bummed Batman's getting all the good books right now and Superman gets a cheese steak sandwich.
Can't help but immediately recall the Battle for the Cowl tie-ins here, but we'll see.
Yeah they've not really explored having a different Batman around, Dick displays teh exact same foresight and total knowledge of everything for every situation and the same will to do that job every night without the same psychosis required to pull it off.
Grant Morrison has hinted in interviews that Bruce's return won't necessarily mean an end to Dick as Batman, or Bruce's return to the cowl by default. Who knows what will actually happen, though. Still, this is Batman & Robin #16's cover...
He did the retcon issue of bringing Jason Todd back, half that Captain Comet mini around IC, that one issue of JLA with the JSA crossover, and the Rage of the Red Lanterns one-shot, and the upcoming Earth One Superman story that hasn't been released yet.
Knight and Squire sounds good though. Will it sell better than MI-13 did?
So i'm sold
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Not my first choice of writers.
But my second, so I'm cool with that.
I just really want that origin we've had hinted at us since 2003.
I'm excited.
Bahahaha.
I like a couple of writers in that list but the entire thing smells of editorial getting their greasy unwashed hands in and trying to run it themselves. It's worked so well in the past (just look at Resurrection of Ra's Al Ghul, Countdown and Battle for the Cowl), so why not do it again?
On the other hand, Knight and Squire sounds pretty awesome. Unlike Action Comics, Cornell won't be tied down by the shambling crap that was Blackest Night, so I'm eagerly anticipating it.
Do you mean that as in he is actually a man from Britain or that he is the very essence of Britishness? Because yeah the dude is from Britain.
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So, the only one shot I need to buy is the Return? Okay. Now will someone just tell me which ongoing Morrison is going to be on already so I can set up my pull list?