I always felt so smugly superior to people that got mad enough to throw their controllers.
But then I fought Bald Bull in the Wii version of Punch-Out!!.
I still managed to catch myself before I followed through with the throw though!
The closest I've ever come to throwing a controller was really more dropping it angrily. I think I was playing COD4 MP.
Xaev on
Steam - Lysus || XBL - Veax || PSN - Lysus || WoW - Lysus (Korgath - US) || Guild Wars - Lysus Yjirkar || Starcraft II - Lysus.781 || League of Legends - Lysus Feel free to add me on whatever network, it's always more fun to play with people than alone
What do you guys mean by too much "play" in the analog sticks?
They're jiggly! They don't auto center if you leave them alone, they feel 'loose', like an old desk chair that needs tightening.
Also, the Xbox Guide button, is that what you're referring to, Recoil? I guess since it's never actually used in-game it's never really bothered me. :?
Yes. To me, at least, it feels 'wrong'. It's a squishy rubber membrane button, afaik. Which doesn't work so well with its intended purpose, where you want to have a long stride, and a solid contact. You want it to be something a lot more like this:
It is after all, like a start/stop button for the console.
What do you guys mean by too much "play" in the analog sticks?
They're jiggly! They don't auto center if you leave them alone, they feel 'loose', like an old desk chair that needs tightening.
Also, the Xbox Guide button, is that what you're referring to, Recoil? I guess since it's never actually used in-game it's never really bothered me. :?
Yes. To me, at least, it feels 'wrong'. It's a squishy rubber membrane button, afaik. Which doesn't work so well with its intended purpose, where you want to have a long stride, and a solid contact. You want it to be something a lot more like this:
It is after all, like a start/stop button for the console.
it's more than that, though.
because it does something different if you hold it down
What do you guys mean by too much "play" in the analog sticks?
They're jiggly! They don't auto center if you leave them alone, they feel 'loose', like an old desk chair that needs tightening.
Also, the Xbox Guide button, is that what you're referring to, Recoil? I guess since it's never actually used in-game it's never really bothered me. :?
Yes. To me, at least, it feels 'wrong'. It's a squishy rubber membrane button, afaik. Which doesn't work so well with its intended purpose, where you want to have a long stride, and a solid contact. You want it to be something a lot more like this:
It is after all, like a start/stop button for the console.
it's more than that, though.
because it does something different if you hold it down
Er, are you arguing with me, or agreeing with me? I honestly can't tell.
The guide button is hard plastic. Dunno where you got squishy from, unless you mean how it feels when you press it.
Yes, exactly. As I said, it's using a membrane button underneath, rather than a spring-loaded switch.
Three types of buttons commonly used:
- A no-distance clicker, used for the bumper buttons on the 360. Also the power button on the Wii, the new PS3, and probably your laptop. Great for toggles, but usually bad UI if there's a secondary function
- A membrane button. Used on your TV remote, and on the face buttons of your 360 controller. Also what they use on the jewel/guide button, and what I'm saying is the wrong choice. They're somewhat squishy, but very cheap to manufacture -- hence their ubiquity on remotes and control panels the world over.
- A spring-loaded contact switch. Not the toggle kind you'd find on a pen. Found on old IBM keyboards. Most modern desktop PCs. And cars with starter buttons. What the 360 guide button SHOULD have.
Have you ever had to cold-reboot a modern PC? That's what I'm talking about.
I'm talking a button that goes in a good half inch, low resistance/feedback.
In all seriousness, the sticks on both were quite good. Back then, MS made excellent PC controllers, and these came to us courtesy of the people who gave us beauties like the Sidewinder FF line. Nowadays, almost no one makes PC controllers.
I thought that the Controller S had almost identical sticks. Were they of a different feel or quality? It's been a while, I suppose.
S had better ergonomics overall, and the face buttons were certainly a huge improvement.
But analogs? Nay sir. I say, look at that beautiful target-groove shape on the Duke's secondary stick. It was perfection. And they both had *just* the right amount of concave/convex-itivity, too, something that has yet to be duplicated on any other controller for some unknown godforsaken reason. Truly, a tragedy.
I defer to your wisdom, though I do imagine that might explain why I preferred the Duke to the S in 3D fighters (mostly DOA3 and a little SC2). Left stick is kind of big for them.
Though, it'd be well within one's capability to cut off the top off the left stick on two controllers, insert a thin metal rod (they're solid, after all), and use some strong glue or resin. If you wanted the ergonomics of the S and the left stick of the Duke, I mean. A little messy, but definitely doable.
(I didn't come up with this, I knew a guy who did it with the four controllers he owned when the S was first released. Either that, or he lied to me and had a secret line to computer hardware factories making Microsoft's stuff, and a custom blueprint.)
It's even easier than that. The sticks are basically identical except for the top rubber part. The stick just pops off the actual electronics, and they can be swapped between controller types. I wonder if the 360 has the the same type...
The DS is still a bad design, and you can clearly see the time-line of features that were thrown on to it without any regard for usability. The sticks are too close. If you have really tiny hands, that might be fine, but the goal in product design is to make it the best it possibly can be for the majority of users. I think the DS fails in this regard, with multiple aspects of it's design. The handles could be extended more, as it stands, those handles stop midway in my palm. The GameCube controller, was much more comfortable despite being a device with similar size, the handles were formed and positioned better.
It sounds like what Sony might consider here is essentially doing the reverse of what Microsoft did with the oXbox's Duke > S controller transition. The DualShock is a good fit for me, but I suppose I have somewhat more Japanese hands.
They're jiggly! They don't auto center if you leave them alone, they feel 'loose', like an old desk chair that needs tightening.
Yes. To me, at least, it feels 'wrong'. It's a squishy rubber membrane button, afaik. Which doesn't work so well with its intended purpose, where you want to have a long stride, and a solid contact. You want it to be something a lot more like this:
*snip*
It is after all, like a start/stop button for the console.
it's more than that, though.
because it does something different if you hold it down
Er, are you arguing with me, or agreeing with me? I honestly can't tell.
The guide button is hard plastic. Dunno where you got squishy from, unless you mean how it feels when you press it.
Yes, exactly. As I said, it's using a membrane button underneath, rather than a spring-loaded switch.
Three types of buttons commonly used:
- A no-distance clicker, used for the bumper buttons on the 360. Also the power button on the Wii, the new PS3, and probably your laptop. Great for toggles, but usually bad UI if there's a secondary function
- A membrane button. Used on your TV remote, and on the face buttons of your 360 controller. Also what they use on the jewel/guide button, and what I'm saying is the wrong choice. They're somewhat squishy, but very cheap to manufacture -- hence their ubiquity on remotes and control panels the world over.
- A spring-loaded contact switch. Not the toggle kind you'd find on a pen. Found on old IBM keyboards. Most modern desktop PCs. And cars with starter buttons. What the 360 guide button SHOULD have.
Have you ever had to cold-reboot a modern PC? That's what I'm talking about.
*snip*
I'm talking a button that goes in a good half inch, low resistance/feedback.
interestingly enough, I think you're wrong. The guide button is not an ON/OFF switch, and if you were to have a spring-loaded button that had a definite on state and definite off state then with the current guide design there would be many cases where you'd have to hit the button twice just to get it to function once.
for example, let's say I hit the guide button to bring up the guide. I do whatever it is that I wanted to do with the guide, then I hit the B button to exit the guide. Now my spring button is left in the ON position while the guide is most definitely off. I would then Have to toggle it once because I could open the guide.
Also, I don't know about anyone else but there is no deadzone in the 360 controller I'm using at this very instant, the joysticks are tight, and they return to center with a snap. So I dunno what 360 controller you're talking about, but it's not this one.
What do you guys mean by too much "play" in the analog sticks?
They're jiggly! They don't auto center if you leave them alone, they feel 'loose', like an old desk chair that needs tightening.
So true.
Am I the only one who wishes they were parallel like the DualShock?
As in, the positions of the d-pad and left analog are switched?
Yes.
But I want them switched!
Actually, I would probably prefer they swapped the right analog with the buttons. The thumbs seem to fall naturally in those locations. As it is now, playing an FPS with both sticks has always seemed a bit odd with one thumb forward and one thumb off to the side.
What do you guys mean by too much "play" in the analog sticks?
They're jiggly! They don't auto center if you leave them alone, they feel 'loose', like an old desk chair that needs tightening.
So true.
Am I the only one who wishes they were parallel like the DualShock?
As in, the positions of the d-pad and left analog are switched?
Yes.
But I want them switched!
Actually, I would probably prefer they swapped the right analog with the buttons. The thumbs seem to fall naturally in those locations. As it is now, playing an FPS with both sticks has always seemed a bit odd with one thumb forward and one thumb off to the side.
This was mentioned earlier. I suppose it's no more logical than which button layout you prefer in a game. I want to say side-by-side joysticks are awkward as hell, but that might be the work of the DS as a whole, not the actual concept.
What do you guys mean by too much "play" in the analog sticks?
They're jiggly! They don't auto center if you leave them alone, they feel 'loose', like an old desk chair that needs tightening.
So true.
Am I the only one who wishes they were parallel like the DualShock?
As in, the positions of the d-pad and left analog are switched?
Yes.
But I want them switched!
Actually, I would probably prefer they swapped the right analog with the buttons. The thumbs seem to fall naturally in those locations. As it is now, playing an FPS with both sticks has always seemed a bit odd with one thumb forward and one thumb off to the side.
This was mentioned earlier. I suppose it's no more logical than which button layout you prefer in a game. I want to say side-by-side joysticks are awkward as hell, but that might be the work of the DS as a whole, not the actual concept.
Coincidentally, I find it more awkward that in order to push both sticks left, I move my left thumb to the left, but move my right thumb to the up-left (relative to its positioning.)
While the 360 controller has a much more comfortable feel to it in hand, I find the DS' parallel sticks much more desirable. I've often said my ideal controller would be a 360 controller with the DS' sticks, and a revised D-pad. The shoulder bumpers could be refined as well, but thats minor.
What do you guys mean by too much "play" in the analog sticks?
They're jiggly! They don't auto center if you leave them alone, they feel 'loose', like an old desk chair that needs tightening.
So true.
Am I the only one who wishes they were parallel like the DualShock?
As in, the positions of the d-pad and left analog are switched?
Yes.
But I want them switched!
Actually, I would probably prefer they swapped the right analog with the buttons. The thumbs seem to fall naturally in those locations. As it is now, playing an FPS with both sticks has always seemed a bit odd with one thumb forward and one thumb off to the side.
This was mentioned earlier. I suppose it's no more logical than which button layout you prefer in a game. I want to say side-by-side joysticks are awkward as hell, but that might be the work of the DS as a whole, not the actual concept.
Coincidentally, I find it more awkward that in order to push both sticks left, I move my left thumb to the left, but move my right thumb to the up-left (relative to its positioning.)
While the 360 controller has a much more comfortable feel to it in hand, I find the DS' parallel sticks much more desirable. I've often said my ideal controller would be a 360 controller with the DS' sticks, and a revised D-pad. The shoulder bumpers could be refined as well, but thats minor.
My problem with the level sticks, as others have mentioned, is that if you have to move them towards one another--say, you're strafing left but aiming right--my thumbs touch together. There's no real way to fix that, unfortunately, but that's compounded by the DS's size, probably.
What do you guys mean by too much "play" in the analog sticks?
They're jiggly! They don't auto center if you leave them alone, they feel 'loose', like an old desk chair that needs tightening.
So true.
Am I the only one who wishes they were parallel like the DualShock?
As in, the positions of the d-pad and left analog are switched?
Yes.
But I want them switched!
Actually, I would probably prefer they swapped the right analog with the buttons. The thumbs seem to fall naturally in those locations. As it is now, playing an FPS with both sticks has always seemed a bit odd with one thumb forward and one thumb off to the side.
This was mentioned earlier. I suppose it's no more logical than which button layout you prefer in a game. I want to say side-by-side joysticks are awkward as hell, but that might be the work of the DS as a whole, not the actual concept.
Coincidentally, I find it more awkward that in order to push both sticks left, I move my left thumb to the left, but move my right thumb to the up-left (relative to its positioning.)
While the 360 controller has a much more comfortable feel to it in hand, I find the DS' parallel sticks much more desirable. I've often said my ideal controller would be a 360 controller with the DS' sticks, and a revised D-pad. The shoulder bumpers could be refined as well, but thats minor.
My problem with the level sticks, as others have mentioned, is that if you have to move them towards one another--say, you're strafing left but aiming right--my thumbs touch together. There's no real way to fix that, unfortunately, but that's compounded by the DS's size, probably.
I don't have this problem because I play with the tips of my thumbs on the sticks.
What do you guys mean by too much "play" in the analog sticks?
They're jiggly! They don't auto center if you leave them alone, they feel 'loose', like an old desk chair that needs tightening.
So true.
Am I the only one who wishes they were parallel like the DualShock?
As in, the positions of the d-pad and left analog are switched?
Yes.
But I want them switched!
Actually, I would probably prefer they swapped the right analog with the buttons. The thumbs seem to fall naturally in those locations. As it is now, playing an FPS with both sticks has always seemed a bit odd with one thumb forward and one thumb off to the side.
This was mentioned earlier. I suppose it's no more logical than which button layout you prefer in a game. I want to say side-by-side joysticks are awkward as hell, but that might be the work of the DS as a whole, not the actual concept.
Coincidentally, I find it more awkward that in order to push both sticks left, I move my left thumb to the left, but move my right thumb to the up-left (relative to its positioning.)
While the 360 controller has a much more comfortable feel to it in hand, I find the DS' parallel sticks much more desirable. I've often said my ideal controller would be a 360 controller with the DS' sticks, and a revised D-pad. The shoulder bumpers could be refined as well, but thats minor.
My problem with the level sticks, as others have mentioned, is that if you have to move them towards one another--say, you're strafing left but aiming right--my thumbs touch together. There's no real way to fix that, unfortunately, but that's compounded by the DS's size, probably.
If they were placed where the current 360's left stick is, would it even be an issue?
interestingly enough, I think you're wrong. The guide button is not an ON/OFF switch, and if you were to have a spring-loaded button that had a definite on state and definite off state then with the current guide design there would be many cases where you'd have to hit the button twice just to get it to function once.
for example, let's say I hit the guide button to bring up the guide. I do whatever it is that I wanted to do with the guide, then I hit the B button to exit the guide. Now my spring button is left in the ON position while the guide is most definitely off. I would then Have to toggle it once because I could open the guide.
Er, no, you're actually agreeing with me. You missed this part:
- A spring-loaded contact switch. Not the toggle kind you'd find on a pen. Found on old IBM keyboards. Most modern desktop PCs. And cars with starter buttons. What the 360 guide button SHOULD have.
edit:
Also, I don't know about anyone else but there is no deadzone in the 360 controller I'm using at this very instant, the joysticks are tight, and they return to center with a snap. So I dunno what 360 controller you're talking about, but it's not this one.
Really? Pick one up and try to jiggle the analogs, just to the point of where they offer resistance. They don't jiggle? At all?
What do you guys mean by too much "play" in the analog sticks?
They're jiggly! They don't auto center if you leave them alone, they feel 'loose', like an old desk chair that needs tightening.
So true.
Am I the only one who wishes they were parallel like the DualShock?
As in, the positions of the d-pad and left analog are switched?
Yes.
But I want them switched!
Actually, I would probably prefer they swapped the right analog with the buttons. The thumbs seem to fall naturally in those locations. As it is now, playing an FPS with both sticks has always seemed a bit odd with one thumb forward and one thumb off to the side.
This was mentioned earlier. I suppose it's no more logical than which button layout you prefer in a game. I want to say side-by-side joysticks are awkward as hell, but that might be the work of the DS as a whole, not the actual concept.
Coincidentally, I find it more awkward that in order to push both sticks left, I move my left thumb to the left, but move my right thumb to the up-left (relative to its positioning.)
While the 360 controller has a much more comfortable feel to it in hand, I find the DS' parallel sticks much more desirable. I've often said my ideal controller would be a 360 controller with the DS' sticks, and a revised D-pad. The shoulder bumpers could be refined as well, but thats minor.
My problem with the level sticks, as others have mentioned, is that if you have to move them towards one another--say, you're strafing left but aiming right--my thumbs touch together. There's no real way to fix that, unfortunately, but that's compounded by the DS's size, probably.
I don't have this problem because I play with the tips of my thumbs on the sticks.
I don't have this problem usually, because I spent more time with my 360.
I'm curious, all you people that want parallel sticks: Left-handed, or right-handed? Or ambidextrous?
Because part of the reason, and I had to think about this for a sec, but part of the reason I prefer the 'asymmetrical' non-parallel layout of the X360/Gamecube controller is that I think I feel that my left hand requires better positioning, to deal with the fact that it has an in-built accuracy disadvantage compared to my right.
It's either that, or that in FPS's, movement might be more important than turning, but I don't know that for sure, and I have a feeling that isn't the right answer, which is what forced me to come up with the above explanation. My right hand is a lot more adept at dealing with "adverse conditions" than my left, so it can deal with the hassle of an analog that isn't as optimally placed.
That's also extended into my other reasoning -- that of the two sides, you want to "average out" the most important controls to be in the most optimal positions at all times.
I see the controls like this, in order of importance:
1. Face buttons (General importance, used in every game at every level)
2. Analog
3. Analog
4. D-pad
So fitting things where they should go, the face buttons get the most optimal position. Primary positioning, right hand. Analog #1 gets the left hand primary position. Analog #2 gets the right hand secondary positioning. And the D-pad, the most useless of the controls, gets stuck wtih the scraps -- secondary position, on the left hand side.
On the other hand, there's another interesting thing at play here, which is that I play a lot of FPS's, racing games, and a few adventure/rpgs. Pretty much all of these games relegate the D-pad to little or no functionality. If you play a lot of fighting games on the other hand, I can see you wanting the D-pad to be in the optimal/primary position, like it is on the PSDS.
See, I would rate analog and face buttons competing for 2/3, but I suspect that further down the line, you will see more games using the analog sticks, triggers/bumpers, and motion (for better or worse) and using fewer face buttons.
That's just my opinion regarding the last couple generations of consoles, which heavily influences my opinion of an ideal controller.
acidlacedpenguinInstitutionalizedSafe in jail.Registered Userregular
edited August 2009
oh yes, I do see that now. Either too much coffee or not enough I guess. . .
the sticks on my 360 controller have maximum 1mm of travel that's from where the control picks up an up movement to where the control picks up a down movement, so like, half that for any direction alone. Also I have to press it extremely lightly to have it not pick up movement.
Count me as Ambidextrous and prefer asymmetrical stick layout.
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AriviaI Like A ChallengeEarth-1Registered Userregular
edited August 2009
Analog buttons are silly and painful and made me want to kill Star Ocean 3.
Although this might take up too much room internally, I would love to see a 360-esque pad where the shoulder buttons are replaced with mouse wheels. You could still click them in like most modern mice, but they would be great for quickly navigating menus.
This occurred to me while playing Deus Ex: Invisible War on the oXbox, and having to deal with the god-awful menu system that game had. I think that if implemented right this would give a lot of games more versatility that would be useful.
Although this might take up too much room internally, I would love to see a 360-esque pad where the shoulder buttons are replaced with mouse wheels. You could still click them in like most modern mice, but they would be great for quickly navigating menus.
This occurred to me while playing Deus Ex: Invisible War on the oXbox, and having to deal with the god-awful menu system that game had. I think that if implemented right this would give a lot of games more versatility that would be useful.
I'm curious, all you people that want parallel sticks: Left-handed, or right-handed? Or ambidextrous?
Because part of the reason, and I had to think about this for a sec, but part of the reason I prefer the 'asymmetrical' non-parallel layout of the X360/Gamecube controller is that I think I feel that my left hand requires better positioning, to deal with the fact that it has an in-built accuracy disadvantage compared to my right.
It's either that, or that in FPS's, movement might be more important than turning, but I don't know that for sure, and I have a feeling that isn't the right answer, which is what forced me to come up with the above explanation. My right hand is a lot more adept at dealing with "adverse conditions" than my left, so it can deal with the hassle of an analog that isn't as optimally placed.
That's also extended into my other reasoning -- that of the two sides, you want to "average out" the most important controls to be in the most optimal positions at all times.
I see the controls like this, in order of importance:
1. Face buttons (General importance, used in every game at every level)
2. Analog
3. Analog
4. D-pad
So fitting things where they should go, the face buttons get the most optimal position. Primary positioning, right hand. Analog #1 gets the left hand primary position. Analog #2 gets the right hand secondary positioning. And the D-pad, the most useless of the controls, gets stuck wtih the scraps -- secondary position, on the left hand side.
On the other hand, there's another interesting thing at play here, which is that I play a lot of FPS's, racing games, and a few adventure/rpgs. Pretty much all of these games relegate the D-pad to little or no functionality. If you play a lot of fighting games on the other hand, I can see you wanting the D-pad to be in the optimal/primary position, like it is on the PSDS.
So I think it's a combination of factors.
I actually prefer the 360 pad partly because I am left-handed and my dominant hand rests in a natural position for movement on that pad.
If you play a lot of fighting games on the other hand, I can see you wanting the D-pad to be in the optimal/primary position, like it is on the PSDS.
When making controllers they should cater to the types of games that controllers are best for. If you play a lot of fighting games you should really own a stick.
I still don't get why consoles don't support mouse/keyboard for their FPS games though...
If you play a lot of fighting games on the other hand, I can see you wanting the D-pad to be in the optimal/primary position, like it is on the PSDS.
When making controllers they should cater to the types of games that controllers are best for. If you play a lot of fighting games you should really own a stick.
I still don't get why consoles don't support mouse/keyboard for their FPS games though...
Because not everybody thinks that is best and/or does not have their console set up in a home office?
EDIT: also the PS3 does for (I want to say) Unreal Tournament 3.
Posts
But then I fought Bald Bull in the Wii version of Punch-Out!!.
I still managed to catch myself before I followed through with the throw though!
http://www.audioentropy.com/
All this means was that they gained more momentum when heading towards my bedroom wall.
It was the Juggernaut of controllers.
The closest I've ever come to throwing a controller was really more dropping it angrily. I think I was playing COD4 MP.
Feel free to add me on whatever network, it's always more fun to play with people than alone
They're jiggly! They don't auto center if you leave them alone, they feel 'loose', like an old desk chair that needs tightening.
Yes. To me, at least, it feels 'wrong'. It's a squishy rubber membrane button, afaik. Which doesn't work so well with its intended purpose, where you want to have a long stride, and a solid contact. You want it to be something a lot more like this:
It is after all, like a start/stop button for the console.
I'M A TWITTER SHITTER
Hey, I have a blog! (Actually being updated again!)
3DS: 0860-3240-2604
it's more than that, though.
because it does something different if you hold it down
Like Mega Man Legends? Then check out my story, Legends of the Halcyon Era - An Adventure in the World of Mega Man Legends on TMMN and AO3!
Er, are you arguing with me, or agreeing with me? I honestly can't tell.
Yes, exactly. As I said, it's using a membrane button underneath, rather than a spring-loaded switch.
Three types of buttons commonly used:
- A no-distance clicker, used for the bumper buttons on the 360. Also the power button on the Wii, the new PS3, and probably your laptop. Great for toggles, but usually bad UI if there's a secondary function
- A membrane button. Used on your TV remote, and on the face buttons of your 360 controller. Also what they use on the jewel/guide button, and what I'm saying is the wrong choice. They're somewhat squishy, but very cheap to manufacture -- hence their ubiquity on remotes and control panels the world over.
- A spring-loaded contact switch. Not the toggle kind you'd find on a pen. Found on old IBM keyboards. Most modern desktop PCs. And cars with starter buttons. What the 360 guide button SHOULD have.
Have you ever had to cold-reboot a modern PC? That's what I'm talking about.
I'm talking a button that goes in a good half inch, low resistance/feedback.
I'M A TWITTER SHITTER
It's even easier than that. The sticks are basically identical except for the top rubber part. The stick just pops off the actual electronics, and they can be swapped between controller types. I wonder if the 360 has the the same type...
It sounds like what Sony might consider here is essentially doing the reverse of what Microsoft did with the oXbox's Duke > S controller transition. The DualShock is a good fit for me, but I suppose I have somewhat more Japanese hands.
PSN:RevDrGalactus/NN:RevDrGalactus/Steam
So true.
Am I the only one who wishes they were parallel like the DualShock?
NintendoID: Nailbunny 3DS: 3909-8796-4685
As in, the positions of the d-pad and left analog are switched?
Yes.
I'M A TWITTER SHITTER
interestingly enough, I think you're wrong. The guide button is not an ON/OFF switch, and if you were to have a spring-loaded button that had a definite on state and definite off state then with the current guide design there would be many cases where you'd have to hit the button twice just to get it to function once.
for example, let's say I hit the guide button to bring up the guide. I do whatever it is that I wanted to do with the guide, then I hit the B button to exit the guide. Now my spring button is left in the ON position while the guide is most definitely off. I would then Have to toggle it once because I could open the guide.
Also, I don't know about anyone else but there is no deadzone in the 360 controller I'm using at this very instant, the joysticks are tight, and they return to center with a snap. So I dunno what 360 controller you're talking about, but it's not this one.
But I want them switched!
Actually, I would probably prefer they swapped the right analog with the buttons. The thumbs seem to fall naturally in those locations. As it is now, playing an FPS with both sticks has always seemed a bit odd with one thumb forward and one thumb off to the side.
NintendoID: Nailbunny 3DS: 3909-8796-4685
This was mentioned earlier. I suppose it's no more logical than which button layout you prefer in a game. I want to say side-by-side joysticks are awkward as hell, but that might be the work of the DS as a whole, not the actual concept.
Coincidentally, I find it more awkward that in order to push both sticks left, I move my left thumb to the left, but move my right thumb to the up-left (relative to its positioning.)
While the 360 controller has a much more comfortable feel to it in hand, I find the DS' parallel sticks much more desirable. I've often said my ideal controller would be a 360 controller with the DS' sticks, and a revised D-pad. The shoulder bumpers could be refined as well, but thats minor.
NintendoID: Nailbunny 3DS: 3909-8796-4685
My problem with the level sticks, as others have mentioned, is that if you have to move them towards one another--say, you're strafing left but aiming right--my thumbs touch together. There's no real way to fix that, unfortunately, but that's compounded by the DS's size, probably.
I don't have this problem because I play with the tips of my thumbs on the sticks.
http://www.audioentropy.com/
If they were placed where the current 360's left stick is, would it even be an issue?
NintendoID: Nailbunny 3DS: 3909-8796-4685
Er, no, you're actually agreeing with me. You missed this part:
edit:
Really? Pick one up and try to jiggle the analogs, just to the point of where they offer resistance. They don't jiggle? At all?
I'M A TWITTER SHITTER
I don't have this problem usually, because I spent more time with my 360.
Because part of the reason, and I had to think about this for a sec, but part of the reason I prefer the 'asymmetrical' non-parallel layout of the X360/Gamecube controller is that I think I feel that my left hand requires better positioning, to deal with the fact that it has an in-built accuracy disadvantage compared to my right.
It's either that, or that in FPS's, movement might be more important than turning, but I don't know that for sure, and I have a feeling that isn't the right answer, which is what forced me to come up with the above explanation. My right hand is a lot more adept at dealing with "adverse conditions" than my left, so it can deal with the hassle of an analog that isn't as optimally placed.
That's also extended into my other reasoning -- that of the two sides, you want to "average out" the most important controls to be in the most optimal positions at all times.
I see the controls like this, in order of importance:
1. Face buttons (General importance, used in every game at every level)
2. Analog
3. Analog
4. D-pad
So fitting things where they should go, the face buttons get the most optimal position. Primary positioning, right hand. Analog #1 gets the left hand primary position. Analog #2 gets the right hand secondary positioning. And the D-pad, the most useless of the controls, gets stuck wtih the scraps -- secondary position, on the left hand side.
On the other hand, there's another interesting thing at play here, which is that I play a lot of FPS's, racing games, and a few adventure/rpgs. Pretty much all of these games relegate the D-pad to little or no functionality. If you play a lot of fighting games on the other hand, I can see you wanting the D-pad to be in the optimal/primary position, like it is on the PSDS.
So I think it's a combination of factors.
I'M A TWITTER SHITTER
That's just my opinion regarding the last couple generations of consoles, which heavily influences my opinion of an ideal controller.
Oh, I am right handed.
NintendoID: Nailbunny 3DS: 3909-8796-4685
the sticks on my 360 controller have maximum 1mm of travel that's from where the control picks up an up movement to where the control picks up a down movement, so like, half that for any direction alone. Also I have to press it extremely lightly to have it not pick up movement.
Count me as Ambidextrous and prefer asymmetrical stick layout.
This occurred to me while playing Deus Ex: Invisible War on the oXbox, and having to deal with the god-awful menu system that game had. I think that if implemented right this would give a lot of games more versatility that would be useful.
That would actually be amazing for inventory.
I'M A TWITTER SHITTER
When making controllers they should cater to the types of games that controllers are best for. If you play a lot of fighting games you should really own a stick.
I still don't get why consoles don't support mouse/keyboard for their FPS games though...
Because not everybody thinks that is best and/or does not have their console set up in a home office?
EDIT: also the PS3 does for (I want to say) Unreal Tournament 3.
Options aren't welcome for a lot of console folk. These are the people who still care about exclusives, after all.