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Canadian Politics: Proroguery Electric Boogaloo (with epic Harper evil picture in OP)

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Posts

  • TrusTrus Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Aegis wrote: »
    Honest question to any Albertans as I saw this in the paper today, remembered hearing about the party in this thread, and am honestly curious:

    2 Alberta MLAs join upstart Wildrose party

    Is this just an isolated thing or is there more going on in Alberta provincial politics (though I do note that the article does mention there's still like a 80% PC majority in the province)?

    If anyone has a chance of taking down the Conservative government in Alberta it's the WAP. Ed Stelmach has managed to take an incredibly popular party and government and move it to the point where, probably not the next election but in the foreseeable future, they could actually lose an election in Alberta.

    There is actually a kind of interesting parallel between what is happening in Alberta and what is happening with the national government in Britain. Ed Stelmach was given power much in the same way that Gordon Brown was (essentially given it by a popular leader) which right away made him less popular and then through a series of, what I would hesitate to call fiascoes but certainly set backs (H1N1 fuck up, royalty fees, etc), has caused his own party, and the public, to look at him with such a critical eye that there are questions whether or not he even makes the next election as leader.

    Where the WAP comes in has mostly to do with Alberta's electoral history; people are loosing faith with the Tories and are looking to vote else where, they can't vote for the Liberals/NDP/Greens for obvious reasons so they vote for what is essentially the "lite" Tories.

    You might also want to be weary of that 80% PC majority; If I am remembering my Canadian Political Behaviour class right when asked which party a person identifies with people won't identify with smaller or newer parties because those people tend to be seen as radicals.

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  • AzioAzio Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Huh?

    In Britain you have a Prime Minister, elected as a social democrat, who was unpopular for being an imperialist tool. This led to a split in the left-wing vote. Meanwhile, white supremacists are just as crazy now as they were 10 years ago, only this time they're voting.

    in Alberta you have a premier, elected as a conservative, who is unpopular because his economic policies (and those of his predecessors) led to everyone losing their jobs in an oil bust. Everyone needed someone to blame so they ganged up on bungling Stelmach for not being right-wing enough. Then they started looking for other options, somebody that would restore stability to their only industry. Automatically hating the Alberta Liberals because their name is the same as a couple federal governments with a perceived hatred for the province, their only option was the virtually unknown Wildrose Alliance Party. Their popularity skyrocketed over a week or two somehow, probably because they convinced some fat cats that they were the way to go.

    I'm not really seeing the comparison here other than fascists getting seats. The contexts aren't all that similar.

  • TrusTrus Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Azio wrote: »
    Huh?

    In Britain you have a Prime Minister, elected as a social democrat, who was unpopular for being an imperialist right-wing tool. This led to a split in the left-wing vote. Meanwhile, white supremacists are just as crazy now as they were 10 years ago, only this time they're voting.

    in Alberta you have a premier, elected as a conservative, who is unpopular because his right-wing policies led to everyone losing their jobs in an oil bust. Everyone needed someone to blame so they ganged up on bungling Stelmach for not being right-wing enough. Then they started looking for other options, somebody that would restore stability to their only industry. Automatically hating the Alberta Liberals because their name is the same as a couple federal governments with a perceived hatred for the province, their only option was the virtually unknown Wildrose Alliance Party. Their popularity skyrocketed over a week or two somehow, probably because they convinced some fat cats that they were the way to go.

    I'm not really seeing the comparison here other than fascists getting seats. The contexts aren't all that similar.

    I was meaning more along the lines of how they came into power by being handed it by a popular leader and then losing that popularity to the point where their continued reign is questioned.

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  • CorvusCorvus Caw? VancouverRegistered User regular
    edited January 2010
    This, this is what happens when you elect people who don't actually believe in government or democracy. Thanks a fucking lot Conservative voters.

  • MeissnerdMeissnerd Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Any difference, in my mind, between thee WRA and the Conservatives is laughably small. Instead of shuffling around chairs on the Titanic, they're just buying recently refurbished chairs while the ships sinks.

    As for the 2 defectors, the Tories still have a huge number of seats, so 2 leaving isn't much of a dent in their ranks at all.

    edit: Not to mention the irony of a 'new, stick-it-to-the-Tories' party being full of defectors from the Tories!

    do not ask for whom the snerd tolls
  • TrusTrus Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    I'm reading some of the WAP policies right now and it is mostly the generic right wing cut spending, lower taxes stuff but there are interesting policies I could agree with;
    • establish an independent agency to determine the compensation, pension, and severance packages of elected governmental officials
    • be accountable to the people of Alberta by having free votes with the exception of the budget and votes of non-confidence
    • only use Section 33 (the Notwithstanding Clause) of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, with the consent of the Alberta people in a referendum (assuming it is still at the government's discretion to call a referendum)
    • allow individual workers the choice to determine their membership in labour organizations.

    But then there are some crazy stuff which could really hurt them if (when) they ever became a threat to actually form a government
    • strike section 3 of the Human Rights and Multiculturalism Act
    • restore education as an essential service under the Labour Code ensuring that no child’s right to an education is denied by school strikes or lockouts.
    • entrench individual property rights within an Alberta Bill of Rights
    • support the right of compensation from convicted persons to the victims of their crimes

    They also say nothing about expanding Alberta's economy away from natural resources besides a vague "support" for the research into alternative energies.

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    How did this shit:
    - allow individual workers the choice to determine their membership in labour organizations.

    not go into the "Fucking Crazy" column?


    Also, that party is fucking CRAZY with a capital ALBERTA.

  • TrusTrus Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    You don't think people should be able to choose if they want to be in a union or not?

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  • hippofanthippofant Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Trus wrote: »
    You don't think people should be able to choose if they want to be in a union or not?

    The unions thread is about to shit all up in here.

  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Trus wrote: »
    You don't think people should be able to choose if they want to be in a union or not?

    What's the point of a union then?

  • AzioAzio Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    their entire platform is about oil with a few far-right "issues" to court rural voters

  • Vic_viperVic_viper Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    shryke wrote: »
    Trus wrote: »
    You don't think people should be able to choose if they want to be in a union or not?

    What's the point of a union then?

    Indeed unions are only effective because it represents the entirety of the workforce.

  • Disco11Disco11 Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    I have spoken to one of the founding memebers of the wild rose... wow.

    The whole conversation was thinly veiled comments on how to improve Alberta by getting rid of the brown people.... And the french... and the indians.

    Guess I do speak english better than I thought!

    Also he went on about how Alberta would be soooo much better of without the feds and should consider forming there own nation. Being from Quebec this sounded familliar.

    Bunch of nut jobs.

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  • AzioAzio Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    End-stage conservatism.

  • CorvusCorvus Caw? VancouverRegistered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Disco11 wrote: »
    I have spoken to one of the founding memebers of the wild rose... wow.

    The whole conversation was thinly veiled comments on how to improve Alberta by getting rid of the brown people.... And the french... and the indians.

    Guess I do speak english better than I thought!

    Also he went on about how Alberta would be soooo much better of without the feds and should consider forming there own nation. Being from Quebec this sounded familliar.

    Bunch of nut jobs.

    He must love the Metis.

  • AzioAzio Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    In other news, harper's hand picked parliamentary budget officer still owns
    Prorogation will not silence Parliamentary Budget Officer Kevin Page, who plans to release three substantive reports in the run-up to the March budget.

    Through a quirk – or, more accurately – complete silence in the rules when it comes to the conduct of his fledgling office during a prorogation, Mr. Page says nothing stops him from continuing with his work. As a result, his reports will provide a rare flurry of activity in a quiet, snow-covered parliamentary precinct scheduled to remain idle for 11 straight weeks.

    With key decisions to be made as to the content of the 2010 budget, Mr. Page says he owes it to MPs to publish these reports while they are still timely.

    His office is a creation of the Conservative government, but MPs and senators on both sides of the floor have bristled at times in response to Mr. Page's strong independent streak. His next report, which could come out as early as next week, will explore an issue Finance Minister Jim Flaherty doesn't want to talk about.

    It will provide an in-depth analysis in support of the view that Canada faces a “structural” deficit – meaning the country will be stuck in the red even when the economy bounces back.

    It is a conclusion that strikes at the core of one of the Conservative government's most cherished accomplishments: slashing the goods and services tax rate to 5 per cent from 7 per cent. Each percentage point cut in the GST is estimated to cost the government about $6-billion in revenues.

    But Mr. Page says the government has yet to come to grips with the revenue loss created by these and other tax cuts, leaving a future gap that has so far not been addressed.

    Just so we're all clear on how awesome Kevin Page is: this guy, with minimal resources and personnel, literally went line by line through the federal budget, which was sent to his office in print form by the PMO, to tell you how badly Harper has fucked things up.

  • Vic_viperVic_viper Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Azio wrote: »
    In other news, harper's hand picked parliamentary budget officer still owns
    Prorogation will not silence Parliamentary Budget Officer Kevin Page, who plans to release three substantive reports in the run-up to the March budget.

    Through a quirk – or, more accurately – complete silence in the rules when it comes to the conduct of his fledgling office during a prorogation, Mr. Page says nothing stops him from continuing with his work. As a result, his reports will provide a rare flurry of activity in a quiet, snow-covered parliamentary precinct scheduled to remain idle for 11 straight weeks.

    With key decisions to be made as to the content of the 2010 budget, Mr. Page says he owes it to MPs to publish these reports while they are still timely.

    His office is a creation of the Conservative government, but MPs and senators on both sides of the floor have bristled at times in response to Mr. Page's strong independent streak. His next report, which could come out as early as next week, will explore an issue Finance Minister Jim Flaherty doesn't want to talk about.

    It will provide an in-depth analysis in support of the view that Canada faces a “structural” deficit – meaning the country will be stuck in the red even when the economy bounces back.

    It is a conclusion that strikes at the core of one of the Conservative government's most cherished accomplishments: slashing the goods and services tax rate to 5 per cent from 7 per cent. Each percentage point cut in the GST is estimated to cost the government about $6-billion in revenues.

    But Mr. Page says the government has yet to come to grips with the revenue loss created by these and other tax cuts, leaving a future gap that has so far not been addressed.

    Just so we're all clear on how awesome Kevin Page is: this guy, with minimal resources and personnel, literally went line by line through the federal budget, which was sent to his office in print form by the PMO, to tell you how badly Harper has fucked things up.

    Man am I ever glad I'm saving 2% on some of the things I buy! It's not like the 12 billion dollars that would bring the federal government would be put to good use. -_-

  • AegisAegis Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    From the TV this morning:

    "Harper is looking to combat perception that we may be heading to an election in the spring. In response to his prorogation he has said that, 'prorogation was just a routine matter and had nothing to do with the Afghanistan issue.'"

    Bull fucking shit.

  • ImperfectImperfect Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    The man is standing outside an evacuated, burning house, and telling people: "This house? It's not on fire. I certainly didn't set it on fire. We're all just outside because it's nice out. Yes, blizzards can be nice."

  • CadeCade Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Reminds me of how he said there was no crisis when the economy was tanking left and right a year ago.

  • Kevin R BrownKevin R Brown __BANNED USERS
    edited January 2010
    Aegis wrote: »
    Honest question to any Albertans as I saw this in the paper today, remembered hearing about the party in this thread, and am honestly curious:

    2 Alberta MLAs join upstart Wildrose party

    Is this just an isolated thing or is there more going on in Alberta provincial politics (though I do note that the article does mention there's still like a 80% PC majority in the province)?

    I'm stuck in insanity-land right now. Yes, the WAP is definitely gaining momentum as Ed was not successful in capturing all of Ralph's fanboys - however, this is not a good thing!

    It's worse than it sounds. The WAP is full of radical Christians & white supremacists who have absolutely no bones about airing their distaste for natives. When Rob Anders (shamefully, my local MLA) defects to join a new conservative movement, you can be assured that trouble is brewing (Mr. Anders would be the crackpot who thinks that Global Warming is a hoax perpetuated by the KGB, whom he believes are still operating out of the Soviet Union, which he does not believe actually collapsed. It's a frightening NWO conspiracy theory, and there is good reason to believe that the same conspiracy theory and psuedo-science is the reason behind Mr. Stelmach's 'inability' to procure enough vaccine for the province. These lunatics think that vaccine and tamiflu are communist mind control drugs).

    Alberta is rapidly transforming from Canada's Texas into Canada's South Carolina.

    ' As always when their class interests are at stake, the capitalists can dispense with noble sentiments like the right to free speech or the struggle against tyranny.'
  • RichyRichy Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    As much as I'd like to see the Alberta Conservatives lose their monopoly on power in that province, you have to keep in mind that the Wild Rose is composed of defectors upset because they find the Conservatives too liberal. They don't want to improve things, they want a far-right-wing government.

    The situation would be like going to the USA and replacing the Bush Administration with a bunch of tea-baggers. The 'replacing' part sounds good, until you realize what you're replacing them with.

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  • Kevin R BrownKevin R Brown __BANNED USERS
    edited January 2010
    Richy wrote: »
    As much as I'd like to see the Alberta Conservatives lose their monopoly on power in that province, you have to keep in mind that the Wild Rose is composed of defectors upset because they find the Conservatives too liberal. They don't want to improve things, they want a far-right-wing government.

    The situation would be like going to the USA and replacing the Bush Administration with a bunch of tea-baggers. The 'replacing' part sounds good, until you realize what you're replacing them with.

    Exactly.

    Ralph Klein was a drunken racist and an imbecile, but I'd choose to have him back over the WAP loonies in a heartbeat.

    ' As always when their class interests are at stake, the capitalists can dispense with noble sentiments like the right to free speech or the struggle against tyranny.'
  • RichyRichy Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Vic_viper wrote: »
    Man am I ever glad I'm saving 2% on some of the things I buy! It's not like the 12 billion dollars that would bring the federal government would be put to good use. -_-
    Well most companies raised their prices 2% as the GST dropped, so you're not saving anything. Harper just transferred $12B of taxpayers' money from the government to private companies.

    Which is great, since private companies need that money to sustain our healthcare system, welfare, roads, airports, military, universities, research centers, and so on. The government would just blow the money on bonuses for their top executives.

    RichyFlag.gifsig.gif
  • AegisAegis Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Richy wrote: »
    Vic_viper wrote: »
    Man am I ever glad I'm saving 2% on some of the things I buy! It's not like the 12 billion dollars that would bring the federal government would be put to good use. -_-
    Well most companies raised their prices 2% as the GST dropped, so you're not saving anything. Harper just transferred $12B of taxpayers' money from the government to private companies.

    Which is great, since private companies need that money to sustain our healthcare system, welfare, roads, airports, military, universities, research centers, and so on. The government would just blow the money on bonuses for their top executives.

    Phew. Good thing we have such a good leader able to think of these things and govern so effectively.

  • Gnome-InterruptusGnome-Interruptus Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Honestly, Stelmach is much better than Ralph Klein, though it would be pretty difficult to go down from a guy that decided to spend the last 5 years in office just coasting until he retired while the province went to shit from lack of planning.

    Cutting the GST was a good thing to do, not making up the revenue shortfall elsewhere was very stupid. 50% of this countries revenue already comes from Income tax, another 15-20% from GST (which businesses can write off, but consumers cant). Its time to let up the pressure on the Canadian taxpayers, especially when the GST is a regressive form of taxation instead of a progressive one.

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  • psyck0psyck0 Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Trus wrote: »
    You don't think people should be able to choose if they want to be in a union or not?

    As other people have said (indirectly) the power of unions comes only from having every worker be a member. No one wants to pay the union $5 every paycheck and so once the union got them all their benefits they'd leave it, the union would become powerless and they'd lose all their benefits.

    Oh, another page.

    Economists said AT THE TIME OF THE GST CUT that it was the worst idea a government has had in a decade or more. Every economist whose opinion I heard was against it. It was a horrendously stupid tax cut, saving your average middle-class person $300-400 a year, the poor almost nothing, and the rich thousands and thousands of dollars (the opposite of how tax cuts are supposed to work, although I am opposed to tax cuts altogether- we've been cutting taxes for decades, how are we supposed to maintain services when all we do is cut funding for them you fucking retards?!!).

    Big Man in training.
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  • PhistiPhisti Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Cutting taxes during an economic boom is the dumbest thing ever.

    A) Most people have the jobs and money to pay the tax
    B) The tax builds a cash reserve for the inevitable bust so there is a cushion to pay stimulus monies etc.
    C) When the bust comes you can cut taxes to stimulate growth

    Yeah, not so bright.

  • AegisAegis Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Okay, after reading the Toronto Star a bit of an elaboration on Harper's responses to the prorogation critics: it wasn't necessarily that the Afghanistan detainee issue wasn't at the core of the prorogation, it was that Canadians (as measured through polls which he specifically mentioned) weren't concerned with the issue. So he did it because they were concerned about the economy (since the polls showed that)! Plus, Afghanistan is something the opposition parties have been at for 3-4 years (with the implication that it isn't a real issue or some such).

    I look forward to Harper's next motion, following this logic, of making the Prime Minister PM for eternity, because the polls really don't show Canadians of caring too deeply about this issue.

    In related news, it seems that the Liberal Party is planning on actually sitting in Parliament come Jan 25 (the originally scheduled winter break end and Parliament resumption). They're not exactly sure what they're going to substantively do, but they're physically going to sit in the House as a way in which to hammer Harper home on the issue (and probably craft some strategy of their own).

  • AegisAegis Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    I just found this, read it, and would like to have Rick Mercer's babies:
    There's a very good reason why the word prorogue doesn't come up that often in our society. Why would it? The word has absolutely no resonance with anyone in Canada because the notion that you can shut down anything for months at a time is a total fantasy. That's the thing about life; it's relentless. If you are an adult and live in the real world, proroguing isn't on the agenda, in much the same way levitating isn't.

    God knows I love the idea of proroguing. Everyone in Canada has lain in bed and prayed for the elusive snow day. The idea that while you slept, the heavens opened up and dumped so much snow on the ground that the front door can't open and the school bus just can't come. We all remember snow days and that glorious feeling that the deadlines, the tests, the irritating people, the routine and the responsibilities could be avoided for one entire magnificent day with no consequences whatsoever. And if you didn't do your homework, or you were heading into what you knew was going to be a world of hurt, a snow day meant you dodged the bullet.

    But snow days happen to children. If you are an adult, it doesn't matter how much snow falls – you still have to get to work and you still have to shovel the walk. Snow days don't apply to adults unless you happen to be the Prime Minister of Canada, who with one phone call has the ability to give every member of Parliament two months off.

    We elect these men and women to travel to Ottawa and represent us in the House of Commons. Well, forget that notion – it's old-fashioned and democratic. Welcome to Canada 2010 – we embark on a brand-new decade as a country that has taxation without representation.

    It is ironic that while Parliament has been suspended, we remain a nation at war. On New Year's Eve, we greeted the news that five Canadians were killed in a single day with sadness but not surprise. We are at war because, ostensibly, we are helping bring democracy to Afghanistan. How the mission is progressing is open for debate but this much is certain – at present, there is a parliament in Afghanistan that it is very much open for business. Canada has no such institution.

    In Afghanistan, President Hamid Karzai's government faces fierce opposition at every turn. Many of his cabinet choices have been rejected in a secret ballot by the more than 200 parliamentarians who sit in the legislature. Simply closing it down and operating without their consent is not an option; to do so would be blatantly undemocratic or at the very least downright Canadian. If Mr. Karzai suspended the legislature on a whim, we might be forced to ask the question why Canadians are dying to bring democracy to that country.

    Stephen Harper doesn't have that problem. Our Parliament has been suspended for no other reason than the Prime Minister simply can't be bothered with the relentless checks and balances that democracy affords us. He doesn't want to have to stand in the House of Commons and hear anyone question him on any subject. I don't blame him. Parliament is filled with jackals, opportunists and boors. The problem is, like it or not, they were elected.

    I also don't blame the Prime Minister for wanting to keep his ministers out of the spotlight. This is a man who could argue that he is Canada's greenest PM simply because he's the only one who has gone out of his way to give potted plants key portfolios.

    The problem is, he is the one who appointed cabinet and like it or not, they are supposed to be accountable. A minister's job is not to hide in his or her riding; it is to be accountable in Ottawa – or at least that was the promise.

    This Prime Minister has gone from the promise of an open, accessible and accountable government to a government that is simply closed.

    It is too bad that prorogation isn't something that our soldiers had in their arsenal. When faced with the order to head out on a foot patrol in the Panjwai district of southern Afghanistan, to risk their lives to bring democracy to that place, wouldn't it be nice if they could simply prorogue and roll over and go back to sleep? Soldiers don't get that luxury. That is afforded only to the people who ultimately order them to walk down those dangerous dusty roads in the first place.

  • CorvusCorvus Caw? VancouverRegistered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Cade wrote: »
    Reminds me of how he said there was no crisis when the economy was tanking left and right a year ago.

    Or "now is a good time to buy" or words to that effect.

  • RobmanRobman Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Aegis wrote: »
    Okay, after reading the Toronto Star a bit of an elaboration on Harper's responses to the prorogation critics: it wasn't necessarily that the Afghanistan detainee issue wasn't at the core of the prorogation, it was that Canadians (as measured through polls which he specifically mentioned) weren't concerned with the issue. So he did it because they were concerned about the economy (since the polls showed that)! Plus, Afghanistan is something the opposition parties have been at for 3-4 years (with the implication that it isn't a real issue or some such).

    I look forward to Harper's next motion, following this logic, of making the Prime Minister PM for eternity, because the polls really don't show Canadians of caring too deeply about this issue.

    In related news, it seems that the Liberal Party is planning on actually sitting in Parliament come Jan 25 (the originally scheduled winter break end and Parliament resumption). They're not exactly sure what they're going to substantively do, but they're physically going to sit in the House as a way in which to hammer Harper home on the issue (and probably craft some strategy of their own).

    It was to do a few things actually. Firstly, it's an attempt to derail the Afghan issue and Harper probably hopes the delay will splinter the cohesion among the opposition parties, which is probably true.

    Secondly, it lets him re-jig the senate. He wasn't getting exactly his way because of the senate review process, which probably enraged him more then any substantive allegations of war crimes in the house.

    Thirdly, it's a massively satisfying power play if it doesn't blow up in his face. He can turn to his base and say "I command parliament." He can literally rule Canada as a dictator and say Canadians don't mind.

  • RobmanRobman Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Corvus wrote: »
    Cade wrote: »
    Reminds me of how he said there was no crisis when the economy was tanking left and right a year ago.

    Or "now is a good time to buy" or words to that effect.

    It kind of was. Ford shares were trading for a couple of bucks, I really wish I'd had a few thou spare to drop on them in late Jan/early Feb considering every analyst was throwing up their hands and saying the market was retarded for undervaluing Ford so much.

  • Edith_Bagot-DixEdith_Bagot-Dix Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Corvus wrote: »
    Cade wrote: »
    Reminds me of how he said there was no crisis when the economy was tanking left and right a year ago.

    Or "now is a good time to buy" or words to that effect.

    On the one hand, I partly paid for my house with the profit I made on stocks I bought around that time.
    On the other hand, my circumstances weren't exactly those of the average Canadian and I happened to have a few tens of thousands of dollars to invest at that particular moment. The idea that his comment was remotely useful or empathetic to the circumstances of the average Canadian is ludicrous.

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  • RobmanRobman Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Corvus wrote: »
    Cade wrote: »
    Reminds me of how he said there was no crisis when the economy was tanking left and right a year ago.

    Or "now is a good time to buy" or words to that effect.

    On the one hand, I partly paid for my house with the profit I made on stocks I bought around that time.
    On the other hand, my circumstances weren't exactly those of the average Canadian and I happened to have a few tens of thousands of dollars to invest at that particular moment. The idea that his comment was remotely useful or empathetic to the circumstances of the average Canadian is ludicrous.

    Yeah it was a great time to get into the market. My parents lost 25% of their retirement savings value in the crash, and have probably lost 10% of that permanently. My mom had already retired at that point, my dad was thinking of retiring this year, but will have to keep working for a few more years as a result.

  • DeciusDecius Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    And in other news my local rag seems to think everyone is ok with full body scanners being placed in airports.

    The sad thing is...that it appears everyone is ok with it. Where'd that comment about Canadians being apathetic go?

    *sigh*

    Warning: Don't read the comments. You'll want to kill some of these people.

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  • RobmanRobman Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Decius wrote: »
    And in other news my local rag seems to think everyone is ok with full body scanners being placed in airports.

    The sad thing is...that it appears everyone is ok with it. Where'd that comment about Canadians being apathetic go?

    *sigh*

    Warning: Don't read the comments. You'll want to kill some of these people.

    I would be OK with it if the scanners were largely automated and indicated discretely to CATSA staff that something wasn't quite kosher. The fact that there's someone watching privately in a separate office with as much oversight as CATSA has currently is a little disquieting. I wouldn't want to be a woman who takes care of herself walking through there, knowing that some bored dude is probably jacking it to a saved picture of your naked body.

  • Edith_Bagot-DixEdith_Bagot-Dix Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Robman wrote: »
    Decius wrote: »
    And in other news my local rag seems to think everyone is ok with full body scanners being placed in airports.

    The sad thing is...that it appears everyone is ok with it. Where'd that comment about Canadians being apathetic go?

    *sigh*

    Warning: Don't read the comments. You'll want to kill some of these people.

    I would be OK with it if the scanners were largely automated and indicated discretely to CATSA staff that something wasn't quite kosher. The fact that there's someone watching privately in a separate office with as much oversight as CATSA has currently is a little disquieting. I wouldn't want to be a woman who takes care of herself walking through there, knowing that some bored dude is probably jacking it to a saved picture of your naked body.

    In theory, they could automate the process of looking for anomalies (I write code that automates the process of extracting more useful results than just the image from similar scans, so I should know), which would probably be better than having a human operator in circumstances that are bound for inevitable failure (boring, repetitive work where 99.99999% of the time the result is negative is pretty much a recipe for the operator missing the positive result), but of course the goal here is not really to catch terrorists and the probability of this whole thing being exposed as a charade is lower still.

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  • DeciusDecius Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Most of the TSA regulations and restrictions that have been put in place since 9/11 have been for the sake of theatre, then actual effective prevention of terrorist activities.

    The implication that terrorist activities happen on such a regular occasion to ever require this kind of device is laughable.

    I'm ok with safety measures in airports that save my life, as long as they actually do that.

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  • Edith_Bagot-DixEdith_Bagot-Dix Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Decius wrote: »
    Most of the TSA regulations and restrictions that have been put in place since 9/11 have been for the sake of theatre, then actual effective prevention of terrorist activities.

    The implication that terrorist activities happen on such a regular occasion to ever require this kind of device is laughable.

    I'm ok with safety measures in airports that save my life, as long as they actually do that.

    Pretty much my thoughts exactly. Airport security is about as effective as stationing paramedics at public beaches who inspect everyone to be sure they aren't bleeding in order to prevent shark attacks.

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