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Crazy local mall age-policy.

darkenedwingdarkenedwing Registered User
edited September 2009 in Debate and/or Discourse
So I was reading my local newspaper today and came across an article about my Local mall, and the only mall that isn't 2 hours away (im about 2 hours from Ft. Myers, 2 hours from Tampa, 2 and a half hours from Orlando). I found the new Policy on the Mall's website, so heres a PDF link and heres what if says if you want to read it here:


LAKESHORE MALL YOUTH ESCORT POLICY
FRIDAY AND SATURDAY
6 P.M. UNTIL CLOSE

1. Lakeshore Mall visitors under 18 years of age are required to be accompanied by a
parent or guardian 21 years or older at all times on Friday and Saturday evenings
after 6 p.m.
2. Security will begin monitoring those entering the property at 6p.m. on Friday and
Saturday evenings.
3. Unescorted youth shopping prior to 6 p.m. on Friday and Saturday evenings must leave
the property by 6 p.m. or be joined by a parent or guardian.
4. Unescorted youth will be asked to leave the property after 6 p.m. on Fridays and
Saturdays.
5. Individuals without personal transportation on Friday or Saturday nights must schedule
their departure time to ensure compliance with the Youth Escort Policy.
6. Any person violating the posted Youth Escort Policy or Code of Conduct will be asked to
leave the property.
7. Individuals in violation of the Youth Escort Policy or the Code of Conduct who refuse to
leave the property when requested to do so by mall security officers may be prosecuted
for trespassing.
8. Proof of age will be required if the age of the youth and/or parent(s) or guardian(s) is not
easily determined. Those whose age cannot be determined and who lack identification
will be asked to leave the property.
9. Anyone appearing to be under 18 years of age should be prepared to show valid
identification (with picture and date of birth). Acceptable identification includes a driver’s
license, state or military identification card, passport or visa.
10. Youth under 18 years of age working on property will be allowed access without a parent
or guardian. Proof of work status will be required, and youth employees must go directly
to the place of employment and must leave the property at the conclusion of their work
shift if after 6 p.m. on Friday and/or Saturday evenings.
11. Unescorted theater patrons under the age of 18 may only enter the theater through the
mall entrance adjacent to the theater.
12. One parent over 21 years of age may escort all of his/her children. Additionally, one
parent or guardian over 21 years of age may escort up to 3 youths, at least one of which
must be the child of the parent or guardian.
13. Parents or guardians are accountable for the actions of the youth they escort.
14. If an escorted youth is banned from the center, the adult escort will also be banned for
the same period of time.
15. Security personnel are responsible for enforcing this policy and related procedures.
16. The Youth Escort Policy is posted at all mall entrances.

Thank you for your cooperation

Effective September 11, 2009

I, for one, think this is absolutely crazy. This is their effort to deal with "hooligans" in the mall, and it even punishes mall employees who are under 18. The mall is also home to the only Gamestop in the whole county, and the only other place to buy games would be from Walmart. This will seriously cut into their business, and the business of most of the stores in the mall because that is when they have the most business is at night on Fridays and Saturdays. This will seriously take away 80% of the business on Friday and Saturday nights. Even alot of the store managers are against this policy.

What are your oppinions on this/ what do you think would happen if your local mall did this? I, for one, know I won't be shopping there anymore if I can help it, or going to the theater there, even though its the only one in town. It also is home to the only record store in town, and the only arcade in town.

darkenedwing on
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Posts

  • firewaterwordfirewaterword Tighter than R. Kelly in his teens. Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    That's idiotic. Even money on the place being closed six months later.

    PSN/WiiU: TheMakersMark
  • KalTorakKalTorak Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Seems pretty similar to a policy instituted by a mall near where I grew up (Carousel Mall in Syracuse) quite a few years ago. I don't know if it applied to mall employees there though, that seems stupid.

  • electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Sounds like it'll be turned into a right-of-passage by the local teens to see how long you can go undetected. Be all Sam Fisher up ins.

  • darkenedwingdarkenedwing Registered User
    edited August 2009
    This made me also think, we don't even have a Best Buy in our county (but we will be getting one in December). The mall houses the only things to do in my town, and thats not an exaggeration. I think a lot of the stores will pull out from the mall because of this new policy because of how much it will hurt their sales.
    Alot of the store managers have said this is a terrible idea, and some shoppers who were interviewed said they were no longer shopping at the mall because of the new policy. One man is even returning $300 of stuff he bought because of the policy. The person who created and put this into effect is the General Manager of the mall, who i've never even heard of before. She is disregarding the stores needs to sell stuff to stay in business. It seems like she will be costing a lot of people a lot of money.

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  • MrMisterMrMister Valuing scholarship above all elseRegistered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Unaccompanied minors probably don't spend that much money--I imagine they considered the business impact when they devised the policy. It's not like they're going to boycott, anyway; they'll just come during other hours.

    It nonetheless seems annoying. I guess age discrimination doesn't apply to minors, because they have no rights.

  • ImprovoloneImprovolone Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Ahahaha, this reminds me of my old mall back in high school. There was a half day and the mall was swamped with kids during early hours.
    What did they do? They kicked the kids outside into downtown (city name).

    Voice actor for hire. My time is free if your project is!
  • Casually HardcoreCasually Hardcore Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    I say this is a good thing, nothing more annoying then trying to get through a bunch of loitering kids and their god damn drama.

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  • redxredx East Bumblefuck, PARegistered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Meh, it's a stupid rule. Kids have enough buying power and numbers that if they were to organize they could force the mall to change the rule. They won't because they are kids, and the mall management is almost certainly right in its belief that it can do damned near anything it wants and your peers will keep spending money there. Your money keeps the mall running, and you have enough numbers that could pack the mall and its parking lots, preventing other customers from shopping. You could probably even get the media on your side, if you don't do any property damage.

    It won't happen though. No one is going to fight for your rights and dignity, not even your peers. Not even in an age when cellphones and social networking make organizing easier than ever. It's kinda a shame.


    It's pretty much only going to hurt the sales of folks selling food and beverages. Kids will just show up during the day to spend their money.

    All I've got is a snuggle hammer.
  • DrakeDrake Blow it all up ForeverRegistered User regular
    edited August 2009
    I know just how annoying mobs of kids can be from a job I had at a Books-A-Million. For some reason, the place was the weekend hang out for all the local kids. They would trash the place, misbehave, steal and be generally obnoxious for the most part. It was definitely a pain in the ass to deal with, but I don't think anyone would have ever considered some kind of draconian blanket policy like the one in the OP any kind of solution.

    The kids that most people assumed would be the worst (goth/punk/metal) were usually the best, with a legitimate interest in being at the store, other than guzzling espresso drinks and looking at tits in the photography books. Yet these were the kids who got harassed the most by security/police. Lemme guess, the mall punks are a "big problem" in your area too? Funny how shit never changes. I used to think that when my generation got older, this shit would stop. But apparently there is never a lack of idiots, generation to generation.

  • HachfaceHachface Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    The real problem here is that hanging out in the mall is the only thing to do for a lot of kids in a lot of places.

  • CptKemzikCptKemzik Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Hachface wrote: »
    The real problem here is that hanging out in the mall is the only thing to do for a lot of kids in a lot of places.

    I agree with this. The new regulations do sound dumb, however the issue of "hooligans" in the mall would probably not be a significant problem if there were things to do other than going to the mall for them.

    Edit- Although they still have some access to the theater on those nights so they aren't totally cut off from it being unaccompanied.

  • DrakeDrake Blow it all up ForeverRegistered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Hachface wrote: »
    The real problem here is that hanging out in the mall is the only thing to do for a lot of kids in a lot of places.

    Whatever happened to the bonfire/kegger in the woods? Nothing better than kids making a big fire in a remote place then drinking as much as they can get their hands on.

  • CantidoCantido Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Local youths to rebel with collective asspalms.

    (I didn't like that movie.)

    steam_sig.png
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    MrMister wrote: »
    It nonetheless seems annoying. I guess age discrimination doesn't apply to minors, because they have no rights.

    Also, private property. So you can take your 'right to assemble' off my lawn, you damn kids.

    tea-1.jpg
  • KalTorakKalTorak Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Drake wrote: »
    Hachface wrote: »
    The real problem here is that hanging out in the mall is the only thing to do for a lot of kids in a lot of places.

    Whatever happened to the bonfire/kegger in the woods? Nothing better than kids making a big fire in a remote place then drinking as much as they can get their hands on.

    Hey, some of us don't have access to woods like you fancy country kids!

    (For bonus points, have some genius toss an aerosol can onto the fire.)

  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    moniker wrote: »
    MrMister wrote: »
    It nonetheless seems annoying. I guess age discrimination doesn't apply to minors, because they have no rights.
    Also, private property. So you can take your 'right to assemble' off my lawn, you damn kids.
    A mall is not "private property" in the same sense that someone's home is.

  • darkenedwingdarkenedwing Registered User
    edited August 2009
    Man, I live so far out in the woods the power goes out whenever the wind blows too much. But no one here does keggers or bonfires, they just sit at home and drink. and people here drink a lot. Like my brother and a few of his friends went through a whole trash can full of beer cans in a week. and thats the average for people in my town.
    I've also stayed at my house for... I think the longest was about 3 weeks once. only leaving to go out to eat once or twice. Hell, other than going to 2 classes at my community college i've stayed at my house for I think 2 weeks so far :/

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  • Andrew_JayAndrew_Jay Registered User
    edited August 2009
    Kids certainly are annoying, but this is bullshit; the issue hatchface raises (little else for kids to do or places to go) is just one of many reasons why.
    Thanatos wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    MrMister wrote: »
    It nonetheless seems annoying. I guess age discrimination doesn't apply to minors, because they have no rights.
    Also, private property. So you can take your 'right to assemble' off my lawn, you damn kids.
    A mall is not "private property" in the same sense that someone's home is.
    Don't know about the U.S., but here the owner of a mall can't do much to restrict access, it's almost crazy.

  • AmphetamineAmphetamine Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    a local-ish mall here in Milwaukee enacted something along these lines after a gang shooting in the parking lot. i support something like this for that cause- there any incidents or is this just some bitchy old lady not wanting rich emo kids shopping in her mall?

  • electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Why would something like this fix gang shootings in the parking lot?

  • darkenedwingdarkenedwing Registered User
    edited August 2009
    a local-ish mall here in Milwaukee enacted something along these lines after a gang shooting in the parking lot. i support something like this for that cause- there any incidents or is this just some bitchy old lady not wanting rich emo kids shopping in her mall?

    Nope, never been a shooting or anything here. pretty much just the bitchy old lady part. and the rich emo kids.

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  • INeedNoSaltINeedNoSalt Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    2009-08-23.gif

    sometimes you just gotta do a thing
  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    KalTorak wrote: »
    Drake wrote: »
    Hachface wrote: »
    The real problem here is that hanging out in the mall is the only thing to do for a lot of kids in a lot of places.

    Whatever happened to the bonfire/kegger in the woods? Nothing better than kids making a big fire in a remote place then drinking as much as they can get their hands on.

    Hey, some of us don't have access to woods like you fancy country kids!

    (For bonus points, have some genius toss an aerosol can onto the fire.)
    That's bush league stuff.

    If you want bonus points, you've got to go with a propane bottle.
    Spoiler:

    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. On Hiatus!

    Any gamers in the Danville, PA area? PM me if you're interested in some tabletop gaming.
  • DelzhandDelzhand motivated battle programmerRegistered User regular
    edited August 2009
    I was surprised until I saw the location of said mall. In Florida, the elderly population pretty much rules the day. If a mall manager thinks high numbers of kids scare off high number of old people, this was inevitable.

    jk0Btsj.png
  • DrakeDrake Blow it all up ForeverRegistered User regular
    edited August 2009
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    KalTorak wrote: »
    Drake wrote: »
    Hachface wrote: »
    The real problem here is that hanging out in the mall is the only thing to do for a lot of kids in a lot of places.

    Whatever happened to the bonfire/kegger in the woods? Nothing better than kids making a big fire in a remote place then drinking as much as they can get their hands on.

    Hey, some of us don't have access to woods like you fancy country kids!

    (For bonus points, have some genius toss an aerosol can onto the fire.)
    That's bush league stuff.

    If you want bonus points, you've got to go with a propane bottle.
    Spoiler:

    Good lord. My friends and I once just blew up a garbage bag we'd filled up off of a propane tank. It was amazing. Amazingly scary. It set off car alarms and rattled windows. We never did that again.
    Spoiler:

  • electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Man I totally need to do this.

  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Drake wrote: »
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    KalTorak wrote: »
    Drake wrote: »
    Hachface wrote: »
    The real problem here is that hanging out in the mall is the only thing to do for a lot of kids in a lot of places.

    Whatever happened to the bonfire/kegger in the woods? Nothing better than kids making a big fire in a remote place then drinking as much as they can get their hands on.

    Hey, some of us don't have access to woods like you fancy country kids!

    (For bonus points, have some genius toss an aerosol can onto the fire.)
    That's bush league stuff.

    If you want bonus points, you've got to go with a propane bottle.
    Spoiler:

    Good lord. My friends and I once just blew up a garbage bag we'd filled up off of a propane tank. It was amazing. Amazingly scary. It set off car alarms and rattled windows. We never did that again.
    Spoiler:
    We finally got bored with the bottle after it had been sitting in the fire for several hours without any cracks or explosions or anything.

    That's when we put two highpower rounds through it. Luckily we were all well clear.
    Spoiler:

    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. On Hiatus!

    Any gamers in the Danville, PA area? PM me if you're interested in some tabletop gaming.
  • darkenedwingdarkenedwing Registered User
    edited August 2009
    man this thread just turned from good to great. I think we need another threat for "stupid, awesome, shit we did as teens".

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  • KirbithKirbith Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Man a couple of weeks ago, I was out with my boyfriend at a buddy's house, which is quite a ways out in the country. Apparently, our bonfire got a bit too big, to the point where someone driving on the interstate saw it, and called the police to report a structure fire. Good times! :D Scared the hell out of all the teengers that were at the buddy's house as well, when the cops showed up, haha.

    Anywho, I can kind of understand the mall wanting to get kids out of there on friday and saturday nights. Because all I remember a lot of people doing at malls when I was younger, was stealing random shit. It's not like the teenagers were gonna spend a lot of money, anyways. And I really doubt too many adults are going to stop shopping because of these rules, and they're the ones that are either a: spending the money, or b: giving the money to their kids to spend. They'll just have to go with their kids at night or just let them go during the day time. I think they instituted a rule against large groups of teenagers loitering in one of the more popular malls around here. I really don't think it hurt business at all.

    Backloggery | Steam - Kirbith | PSN - Kirbith | 3DS: 4957-2249-4817
  • Andrew_JayAndrew_Jay Registered User
    edited August 2009
    Delzhand wrote: »
    I was surprised until I saw the location of said mall. In Florida, the elderly population pretty much rules the day. If a mall manager thinks high numbers of kids scare off high number of old people, this was inevitable.
    But what elderly people in Florida are out after 6pm?

  • Gabriel_PittGabriel_Pitt (effective against the Irish) Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    Drake wrote: »
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    KalTorak wrote: »
    Drake wrote: »
    Hachface wrote: »
    The real problem here is that hanging out in the mall is the only thing to do for a lot of kids in a lot of places.

    Whatever happened to the bonfire/kegger in the woods? Nothing better than kids making a big fire in a remote place then drinking as much as they can get their hands on.

    Hey, some of us don't have access to woods like you fancy country kids!

    (For bonus points, have some genius toss an aerosol can onto the fire.)
    That's bush league stuff.

    If you want bonus points, you've got to go with a propane bottle.
    Spoiler:

    Good lord. My friends and I once just blew up a garbage bag we'd filled up off of a propane tank. It was amazing. Amazingly scary. It set off car alarms and rattled windows. We never did that again.
    Spoiler:
    We finally got bored with the bottle after it had been sitting in the fire for several hours without any cracks or explosions or anything.

    That's when we put two highpower rounds through it. Luckily we were all well clear.
    Spoiler:
    When I was in high school in rural Michigan on a Monday afternoon one of the local losers recounted his weekend of drugs, alcohol, and a bonfire. "I stole a quarter stick of dynamite out of my dad's equipment shed, and we tossed that sucker on. BOOM! That mailbox post we ripped out and threw on earlier went whizzing by my head, missed me by like a foot! It was awesome!"

    I wouldn't want him in the mall after six no matter how old he is.

    Origin ID: Null_Cypher
    Thomas-Vail.png
  • ShadowfireShadowfire Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Thanatos wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    MrMister wrote: »
    It nonetheless seems annoying. I guess age discrimination doesn't apply to minors, because they have no rights.
    Also, private property. So you can take your 'right to assemble' off my lawn, you damn kids.
    A mall is not "private property" in the same sense that someone's home is.

    Depends on what you're talking about. A mall can absolutely tell you to get the fuck off their "lawn" if they don't want you around. It is private property opened for public use, but you can certainly be told to leave at any time and for almost any reason (aside from illegal reasons).

    That said, this seems like a bad business decision. I wonder whether the stores in the mall had any say in this change of policy, and if not, what they're planning to do about it. If stores start accepting kids after 6pm, the mall may try to fine them... but the corporate offices would love for them to try.

    I'm not sure where I'm going with this, other than "mall makes stupid policy, stores revolt before teenagers do."

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    WiiU: Windrunner ; Guild Wars 2: Shadowfire.3940 ; PSN: Bradcopter
  • DrakeDrake Blow it all up ForeverRegistered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Andrew_Jay wrote: »
    Delzhand wrote: »
    I was surprised until I saw the location of said mall. In Florida, the elderly population pretty much rules the day. If a mall manager thinks high numbers of kids scare off high number of old people, this was inevitable.
    But what elderly people in Florida are out after 6pm?

    Also, elderly people aren't known for spending loads of cash. On the other hand, I was working before I was even legal to do so, and had tons of disposable income that I couldn't wait to drop on music, books, boardgames/RPGs, clothes and general stuff that you can find at the mall. Have times changed so much that no kids work or spend their paychecks on stuff other than necessities?

  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Spoiler:
    When I was in high school in rural Michigan on a Monday afternoon one of the local losers recounted his weekend of drugs, alcohol, and a bonfire. "I stole a quarter stick of dynamite out of my dad's equipment shed, and we tossed that sucker on. BOOM! That mailbox post we ripped out and threw on earlier went whizzing by my head, missed me by like a foot! It was awesome!"

    I wouldn't want him in the mall after six no matter how old he is.
    Dynamite is awesomely dangerous stuff. Not that I know from first hand experience.
    Spoiler:

    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. On Hiatus!

    Any gamers in the Danville, PA area? PM me if you're interested in some tabletop gaming.
  • 2 Marcus 2 Ravens2 Marcus 2 Ravens Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    What's up with people thinking kids don't spend their money? Isn't that all they do (other than get into trouble, I guess)? Pretty much everyone I know spent their money like idiots until they got to college or after and they realized that they can't do that anymore. If they didn't there wouldn't be so many stores geared towards them. And if that mall is like pretty much every mall I've ever been to, that counts for a lot of the stores.

    Kids are generally quite irresponsible, and that definitely includes their spending habits.

  • Typhoid MannyTyphoid Manny Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    this was an excellent plan if their aim was to get kids to go out and get into actual trouble on the weekend instead of walking around the mall not buying anything

    Don't mess with me, lady. I've been drinking with skeletons.
    torches and hammers and metal, oh my
  • Me Too!Me Too! __BANNED USERS regular
    edited August 2009
    KalTorak wrote: »
    Seems pretty similar to a policy instituted by a mall near where I grew up (Carousel Mall in Syracuse) quite a few years ago. I don't know if it applied to mall employees there though, that seems stupid.

    Not to completely derail but hi5 fellow CNY person

    Where are you from

    PS the age rule at Carousel is even dumber because it's literally the only place in the city to go to do something besides buy drugs/see a game

  • KalTorakKalTorak Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Me Too! wrote: »
    KalTorak wrote: »
    Seems pretty similar to a policy instituted by a mall near where I grew up (Carousel Mall in Syracuse) quite a few years ago. I don't know if it applied to mall employees there though, that seems stupid.

    Not to completely derail but hi5 fellow CNY person

    Where are you from

    PS the age rule at Carousel is even dumber because it's literally the only place in the city to go to do something besides buy drugs/see a game

    Actually I grew up an hour away from Carousel (Hamilton), but it was still the only good mall nearby (Sangertown sucks).

  • never dienever die Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    I could see maybe a no large groups type thing as understandable, but that does seem kind of silly. Any arcade style place is going to probably see a hit in business, as are music stores that cater to anything other than general things.

    What really gets me though is the employee one. You would think that any teen under the age of 18 that works there would appreciate their job enough not to cause trouble. Also, if work hours are what they usually are, if they wanted/needed to do some shopping after 6pm, why punish someone who works for you because of age?

    Spoiler:
  • Captain UltraCaptain Ultra Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    What's up with people thinking kids don't spend their money? Isn't that all they do (other than get into trouble, I guess)? Pretty much everyone I know spent their money like idiots until they got to college or after and they realized that they can't do that anymore. If they didn't there wouldn't be so many stores geared towards them. And if that mall is like pretty much every mall I've ever been to, that counts for a lot of the stores.

    Kids are generally quite irresponsible, and that definitely includes their spending habits.

    Is it really being irresponsible for a 16 year old to be spending his paycheck, y'know if he's not responsible for putting food on the table or something? I mean, since most teenagers are still getting food and board from their parents, why shouldn't they spend their money? I got a job at 16 to have some cash that I can spend. Once I paid the insurance payment on my car, that money was spending money. Does a 16 year old need to be saving in an IRA or something to pass your personal responsibility test?

    “I’m the next president,” Greene said. “I’ll be 35 … just before November, so I was born to be president. I’m the man. I’m the man. I’m the man. Greene’s the man. I’m the man. I’m the greatest person ever. I was born to be president. I’m the man, I’m the greatest individual ever.”
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