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Star Trek - "The future's so bright I've gotta wear shades."[SPOILERS]
Posts
Every fucking movie has plot issues. What do you even consider a perfectly written movie? Name me your favorite movie and I will be glad to destroy it with meaningless quibbles masquerading as gaping plot holes.
Not that Star Trek is my favorite movie, I just think destroying your precious would be fun and a good use of my time.
Kirk would kill Q.
Just telling you, man.
You're getting needlessly defensive over criticisms of a movie you're not even in love with.
Corrected for most likely outcome.
I'm not... well, I am, but I'm honestly not even pissy here. The internet is a bad medium for gauging feelings.
What is irritating though is taking small minutia of a movie that, while not perfect, is far better then anyone had any right to expect, and then hyper inflating them into these glaring errors. I mean, come on, saying this is worse then a student film is just being intellectually dishonest.
Why does it offend you so to talk about the plot issues this movie has?
Q is a good villain though, since he truly believes he is the good guy and that humanity is screwed without his help. And, in fact, he is dead right you just tend to only realize it much later.
Still, thats the sort of villain you need, someone whose evil plan makes you go "hmmm... maybe... hang on, I can't slaughter the mole people!"
It doesn't, I'm not offended.
When those are overblown though, it becomes just fanboy bitching. This is true on both sides, don't get me wrong.
But saying Kirk meeting Scotty on the ice planet is contrived, that's not a plot hole. It's a plot device. And of course it's contrived, because you already know who Scotty is. If he had met Billy Joe Bob on the ice planet, it wouldn't be contrived at all, it would just be something that happened.
No, it really isn't.
If you see it as "minutia", that's your business.
But I'm not pushing my glasses up my nose and saying "Well, supernovas don't work like that" whilst snorting and taking a puff of my asthma inhaler.
My gripes with the film are centered around really hamfisted usage of cinematic tropes and cliches. Take away the amazing direction, special effects, incredible cast and acting, and outstanding cinematography.
Just look at the story and script on its own merits, as a screenplay.
It's terrible.
If you don't get that, man, that's on you. I don't expect everyone to know as much about writing and film as I do. Nonetheless, I do know quite a bit about screenwriting so to me, Star Trek's script is amateur hackery.
If you don't care, again, that's fine.
But don't try to pretend other people are being unreasonable because they actually recognize bad storytelling.
Kirk running into scotty on the ice planet was retarded. It had to be done, I suppose, but that doesn't make not stupid.
They can still be fired, too. It would cost Paramount some money but it could be done.
Ah, I hadn't realized you were coming from such a position of authority. My bad. I'll go back to my copy of Freddie Got Fingered now.
And again, if you had bothered at any point in time to actually provide an example, instead of coming at this from your years as a master film maker like I asked for, perhaps this conversation would have gone different. But of course, as I recall you "weren't interested in debating" the issue, which is interesting considering you've managed to have a response for every post I've made.
I'll give you its no work of genius, but it is a long way from being a bad story.
Villain origin
Hero origin
Sidekick origin
Hero meets sidekick
Hero and sidekick meet villain
Villain defeats hero
Sidekick betrays hero
Hero meets the wise master
Wise master restores the hero
Hero and sidekick reuinite
Villain is defeated
Its a generic tale, but its perfectly fine. Peoples actions made sense, the characters were interesting, the lines were good. Theres nothing really wrong with it.
EDIT: Dark Orchided for uncomfortable truth, then Limed because Dark Orchid is really hard to read.
And unless there's another writers strike, they can actually do a couple of edit passes on the new film's script, as Pony seems to have conveniently ignored my post about it earlier.
So, well done, good sir! You trolled me most excellently, and I totally fell for it.
I tip my hat to you.
I will now continue to ignore your posts in this thread and so on.
I have a question: I know some people have seen snippets of the cut material from this film that shows Nero's time imprisoned by the Klingons. Do they ever actually show the Klingons without the helmets on? I thought it was a very clever way to deal with the whole "Are they TOS Klingons or TNG Klingons?" issue, but I wonder if they actually showed it either way?
Probably a question I'll have to wait for the DVD to answer, I guess.
Isn't that what I just said?
Actual Play: Mage: the Awakening - At the Edge of All Things
Actual Play: Mage: the Awakening - At the Edge of All Things
God, I hope so.
I hope Enterprise's whole "answer" to the issue is completely ignored for the rest of time.
Pffft.
They're not going to fire people who make them money and lose money in the process.
Clearly there is some message of fate being conveyed.
They did for Empire Strikes Back, too.
Hell, they did it for Wrath of Khan.
Geek: Remixed - A Decade's worth of ruined pop culture memories
Xbox Live - Fatboy PDX
LAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAZY
I bet they did the "ridged helmets" solely so the didn't have to deal with that at all.
Bones and Kirk were old, old friends, so it makes sense for them to have met early on during their academy days.
Scotty was just the chief engineer; it's a little weird that Kirk happened to run into him at random.
None of those cases had the writers actually already hired and working on the sequel script and then fired.
Geek: Remixed - A Decade's worth of ruined pop culture memories
Xbox Live - Fatboy PDX
It's just a lazy way of conveying fate. "Oh, they just happened to run into each other" just isn't very interesting.
How would you have done it, then?
But, if they use Klingons again in the next or third movie, unless they spend the entire movie under helmets (which would be silly) they're eventually going to have to take a stand on the issue and show what Klingons look like in this Star Trek universe.
Hopefully they ignore all of Manny Coto's fanwanking from the last season of Enterprise.
It's an alternate timeline. It wouldn't matter.
The way a writers contract normally works is they are hired to do a draft and so many rewrites, some of which are optional on the studio's part. After the writers' work has finished the studio can take the script and hire someone else to rewrite it or have it rewritten from scratch.
Don't think the studio would be willing to do that? Happens all the time. Most people don't notice because you usually don't get credit unless your version of the script is used (with some exceptions).
I must point out that the ones fluent in Klingon-speak will most likely be, as a matter of fact, the definition of unwashed.
Well, at least the guy next to me in the theater certainly was.
Smelly too.
Irony, motherfucker, can you detect it?
Whatever you need to do to not actually have to argue your point. Apparently this isn't a debate thread but a chat thread for you, continue with your stream of consciousness posts, by all means.
Fanwanking it may have been, but you have to give credit where credit is due: the fourth season of Enterprise was far, far better than the three seasons before it.