The bigger the government gets the worse off the country as a whole becomes
I would love to see a citation for this. Several of them, in fact. I mean, you'll excuse me for finding it counterintuitive, since, for instance, I can right now drive down a federal highway to visit a national park protected by the Department of the Interior and fish in a lake built by the Army Corps of Engineers and kept clean by the EPA, then cook the fish in a simple shelter built by the WPA on a George Foreman grill whose inventor is protected by the Patent Office, and also cook up some beans free of fecal matter and human fingers because of the FDA and USDA, then call my friend on a cell phone with a minimum of interference thanks to FCC regulations, then post about my awesome vacation on a global computer network created by the Defense Department.
After reading the beginning of your post I was about to make an argument in broad strokes about the inherent welfare loss caused by any substantial tax increases, but by the end of it I decided to take a different tack with my response.
1) The FDA and USDA institute a floor to how much feces your beans contain, but rest assured your beans (probably) contain no more than the legal limit of rat feces.
2) The cell phone industry has god-awful customer service, dodgy connectivity, stupidly high hidden fees, and no alternative providers because the government is complicit in allowing their colluding oligopoly to exist.
3) The internet was invented by the government? Al Gore, no doubt.
I'd rather spend my money on brand labels with reputations for clean food than pay it in taxes towards bloated, ineffective market regulating organizations.
If I wasn't at work I could look up a few citations for you. I recommend Alchian's research into central planning.
Uh huh... while I'm sure in your mind no government would somehow, magically lead to less shit in my food, I'm curious as to who you think DID invent the internet.
You know, since you aren't letting anything like facts get in the way of your thoughts, I'm curious as to what titan of industry you think developed the internet. Please, regal me with your tale of private entrepreneurship in the face of big bad government intervention.
Sentry on
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
wrote:
When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
I'd rather spend my money on brand labels with reputations for clean food than pay it in taxes towards bloated, ineffective market regulating organizations.
Interesting how all companies are good and all government agencies are bad.
That has certainly been proven throughout history, eh? :rolleyes:
oldmanken on
0
FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
The bigger the government gets the worse off the country as a whole becomes
I would love to see a citation for this. Several of them, in fact. I mean, you'll excuse me for finding it counterintuitive, since, for instance, I can right now drive down a federal highway to visit a national park protected by the Department of the Interior and fish in a lake built by the Army Corps of Engineers and kept clean by the EPA, then cook the fish in a simple shelter built by the WPA on a George Foreman grill whose inventor is protected by the Patent Office, and also cook up some beans free of fecal matter and human fingers because of the FDA and USDA, then call my friend on a cell phone with a minimum of interference thanks to FCC regulations, then post about my awesome vacation on a global computer network created by the Defense Department.
Yes, but aside from all that, what has the government ever done for us?
Besides the Aqueduct, the Roads, Wine, and keeping Public Order, what have the Romans ever done for us?
Fencingsax on
0
FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
I'd rather spend my money on brand labels with reputations for clean food than pay it in taxes towards bloated, ineffective market regulating organizations.
Interesting how all companies are good and all government agencies are bad.
That has certainly been proven throughout history, eh? :rolleyes:
1) The FDA and USDA institute a floor to how much feces your beans contain, but rest assured your beans (probably) contain no more than the legal limit of rat feces.
2) The cell phone industry has god-awful customer service, dodgy connectivity, stupidly high hidden fees, and no alternative providers because the government is complicit in allowing their colluding oligopoly to exist.
3) The internet was invented by the government? Al Gore, no doubt.
1) You're welcome to supply me with examples of private regulatory schemes performing equally effectively or better. I'll wait.
2) Is that why they're swallowing each other up like a game of Odell Lake? Infrastructure-dependent businesses (i.e., industries with stupidly high entrance barriers) tend towards monopoly or oligopoly naturally unless the government specifically regulates otherwise. EDIT: also, you're blaming the government for not redressing the faults of the private sector? That's genius.
The bigger the government gets the worse off the country as a whole becomes
I would love to see a citation for this. Several of them, in fact. I mean, you'll excuse me for finding it counterintuitive, since, for instance, I can right now drive down a federal highway to visit a national park protected by the Department of the Interior and fish in a lake built by the Army Corps of Engineers and kept clean by the EPA, then cook the fish in a simple shelter built by the WPA on a George Foreman grill whose inventor is protected by the Patent Office, and also cook up some beans free of fecal matter and human fingers because of the FDA and USDA, then call my friend on a cell phone with a minimum of interference thanks to FCC regulations, then post about my awesome vacation on a global computer network created by the Defense Department.
After reading the beginning of your post I was about to make an argument in broad strokes about the inherent welfare loss caused by any substantial tax increases, but by the end of it I decided to take a different tack with my response.
1) The FDA and USDA institute a floor to how much feces your beans contain, but rest assured your beans (probably) contain no more than the legal limit of rat feces.
2) The cell phone industry has god-awful customer service, dodgy connectivity, stupidly high hidden fees, and no alternative providers because the government is complicit in allowing their colluding oligopoly to exist.
3) The internet was invented by the government? Al Gore, no doubt.
I'd rather spend my money on brand labels with reputations for clean food than pay it in taxes towards bloated, ineffective market regulating organizations.
If I wasn't at work I could look up a few citations for you. I recommend Alchian's research into central planning.
It was invented by researchers under government employ so that government scientists could communicate more easily. That means it was a government invention in every sense.
The bigger the government gets the worse off the country as a whole becomes
I would love to see a citation for this. Several of them, in fact. I mean, you'll excuse me for finding it counterintuitive, since, for instance, I can right now drive down a federal highway to visit a national park protected by the Department of the Interior and fish in a lake built by the Army Corps of Engineers and kept clean by the EPA, then cook the fish in a simple shelter built by the WPA on a George Foreman grill whose inventor is protected by the Patent Office, and also cook up some beans free of fecal matter and human fingers because of the FDA and USDA, then call my friend on a cell phone with a minimum of interference thanks to FCC regulations, then post about my awesome vacation on a global computer network created by the Defense Department.
After reading the beginning of your post I was about to make an argument in broad strokes about the inherent welfare loss caused by any substantial tax increases, but by the end of it I decided to take a different tack with my response.
1) The FDA and USDA institute a floor to how much feces your beans contain, but rest assured your beans (probably) contain no more than the legal limit of rat feces.
2) The cell phone industry has god-awful customer service, dodgy connectivity, stupidly high hidden fees, and no alternative providers because the government is complicit in allowing their colluding oligopoly to exist.
3) The internet was invented by the government? Al Gore, no doubt.
I'd rather spend my money on brand labels with reputations for clean food than pay it in taxes towards bloated, ineffective market regulating organizations.
If I wasn't at work I could look up a few citations for you. I recommend Alchian's research into central planning.
Bolded for WTF equivalent to 9-11 conspiracy stupidity - do you perhaps also wear a tinfoil helmet btw or live off the grid?
The bigger the government gets the worse off the country as a whole becomes
I would love to see a citation for this. Several of them, in fact. I mean, you'll excuse me for finding it counterintuitive, since, for instance, I can right now drive down a federal highway to visit a national park protected by the Department of the Interior and fish in a lake built by the Army Corps of Engineers and kept clean by the EPA, then cook the fish in a simple shelter built by the WPA on a George Foreman grill whose inventor is protected by the Patent Office, and also cook up some beans free of fecal matter and human fingers because of the FDA and USDA, then call my friend on a cell phone with a minimum of interference thanks to FCC regulations, then post about my awesome vacation on a global computer network created by the Defense Department.
After reading the beginning of your post I was about to make an argument in broad strokes about the inherent welfare loss caused by any substantial tax increases, but by the end of it I decided to take a different tack with my response.
1) The FDA and USDA institute a floor to how much feces your beans contain, but rest assured your beans (probably) contain no more than the legal limit of rat feces.
2) The cell phone industry has god-awful customer service, dodgy connectivity, stupidly high hidden fees, and no alternative providers because the government is complicit in allowing their colluding oligopoly to exist.
3) The internet was invented by the government? Al Gore, no doubt.
I'd rather spend my money on brand labels with reputations for clean food than pay it in taxes towards bloated, ineffective market regulating organizations.
If I wasn't at work I could look up a few citations for you. I recommend Alchian's research into central planning.
Uh huh... while I'm sure in your mind no government would somehow, magically lead to less shit in my food, I'm curious as to who you think DID invent the internet.
You know, since you aren't letting anything like facts get in the way of your thoughts, I'm curious as to what titan of industry you think developed the internet. Please, regal me with your tale of private entrepreneurship in the face of big bad government intervention.
Even funnier when you think about it, government, the DOD and Navy, invented the fucking computer.
The bigger the government gets the worse off the country as a whole becomes
I would love to see a citation for this. Several of them, in fact. I mean, you'll excuse me for finding it counterintuitive, since, for instance, I can right now drive down a federal highway to visit a national park protected by the Department of the Interior and fish in a lake built by the Army Corps of Engineers and kept clean by the EPA, then cook the fish in a simple shelter built by the WPA on a George Foreman grill whose inventor is protected by the Patent Office, and also cook up some beans free of fecal matter and human fingers because of the FDA and USDA, then call my friend on a cell phone with a minimum of interference thanks to FCC regulations, then post about my awesome vacation on a global computer network created by the Defense Department.
Yes, but aside from all that, what has the government ever done for us?
I know whenever I find rat shit and fingers in my can of beans I make a point to go buy that brand again. Also, if the FDA approves something then we all know for a fact it's safe and should never question their infinite wisdom. If they don't approve something it's the equivalent of poison, unless the manufacturers lobby hard enough of course.
Besides the Aqueduct, the Roads, Wine, and keeping Public Order, what have the Romans ever done for us?
Massive standing imperial armies. Nuclear Bombs. Genocide and Ethnic Cleansing. Political Assasinations foreign and domestic. Wiretaps. Drug Raids. Internment Camps. Gas Chambers.
1) You're welcome to supply me with examples of private regulatory schemes performing equally effectively or better. I'll wait.
2) Is that why they're swallowing each other up like a game of Odell Lake? Infrastructure-dependent businesses (i.e., industries with stupidly high entrance barriers) tend towards monopoly or oligopoly naturally unless the government specifically regulates otherwise.
3) HURR HURR AL GORE HURR HURR
The hilarious thing is that you found exactly three (3) things in my post you thought you could address and have signally failed at all of them.
1) Believe it or not, when people eat shitty (heh) food and get infections from it, consumers hear about it and stop buying that brand. People acting in their own best interest in the free market find ways to see through bullshit and spend money on the things that are the most valuable to them. For instance, I have a feeling you won't buy Wal Mart peanut butter when I tell you that it infected thousands of people last year with bacterial rat shit.
The USDA can't possibly know or research enough details about the day-to-day workings in so many different industries to protect people as well as they protect themselves in a free market.
2) Yes, because government antitrust suits against AT&T worked so well.
I'm not blaming the government here, so much as wondering why the cellphone industry is supposed to prove something positive about the government.
3) It was a joke, you can unbind your panties. Thank you for enlightening me; I thought it was primarily researched at UCLA and Stanford, but apparently that was in conjunction with a company under government contract.
kedinik on
I made a game! Hotline Maui. Requires mouse and keyboard.
The bigger the government gets the worse off the country as a whole becomes
I would love to see a citation for this. Several of them, in fact. I mean, you'll excuse me for finding it counterintuitive, since, for instance, I can right now drive down a federal highway to visit a national park protected by the Department of the Interior and fish in a lake built by the Army Corps of Engineers and kept clean by the EPA, then cook the fish in a simple shelter built by the WPA on a George Foreman grill whose inventor is protected by the Patent Office, and also cook up some beans free of fecal matter and human fingers because of the FDA and USDA, then call my friend on a cell phone with a minimum of interference thanks to FCC regulations, then post about my awesome vacation on a global computer network created by the Defense Department.
Yes, but aside from all that, what has the government ever done for us?
I know whenever I find rat shit and fingers in my can of beans I make a point to go buy that brand again. Also, if the FDA approves something then we all know for a fact it's safe and should never question their infinite wisdom. If they don't approve something it's the equivalent of poison, unless the manufacturers lobby hard enough of course.
You're totally right, we should allow the free market to set things right with honest competition among important suppliers.
3) It was a joke, you can all unbind your panties. Thank you for enlightening me; I thought it was primarily researched at UCLA and Stanford, but apparently that was in conjunction with a company under government contract.
Packet switching wouldn't exist if it wasn't for the DOD.
Also, wet sidewalks are the leading cause of rain.
The bigger the government gets the worse off the country as a whole becomes
I would love to see a citation for this. Several of them, in fact. I mean, you'll excuse me for finding it counterintuitive, since, for instance, I can right now drive down a federal highway to visit a national park protected by the Department of the Interior and fish in a lake built by the Army Corps of Engineers and kept clean by the EPA, then cook the fish in a simple shelter built by the WPA on a George Foreman grill whose inventor is protected by the Patent Office, and also cook up some beans free of fecal matter and human fingers because of the FDA and USDA, then call my friend on a cell phone with a minimum of interference thanks to FCC regulations, then post about my awesome vacation on a global computer network created by the Defense Department.
Yes, but aside from all that, what has the government ever done for us?
I know whenever I find rat shit and fingers in my can of beans I make a point to go buy that brand again. Also, if the FDA approves something then we all know for a fact it's safe and should never question their infinite wisdom. If they don't approve something it's the equivalent of poison, unless the manufacturers lobby hard enough of course.
You're totally right, we should allow the free market to set things right with honest competition among important suppliers.
I know whenever I find rat shit and fingers in my can of beans I make a point to go buy that brand again.
I think it's both hilarious and sad that even at this basic, basic level you can't come to grips with the concept of incomplete information.
I'm sure if the FDA or USDA didn't exist another consumer protection organization wouldn't take their place. That would be far too practical.
Since you used the word "practical," I assume you're ready to explain to me how such a group would be funded, where its access would come from - because I realize this may come as a soul-searing shock to you, Kevin, but it turns out many companies don't appreciate other private entities inspecting their physical plants - and how any recommendations it made would be enforced.
The really sad thing is that I don't believe for a second that you actually think such a group would be as or more effective. It all boils down to your own deep and intense personal cowardice in the face of taxes.
I guess it just really sucks for those first few (thousands of) people who get sick off the rat shit before we know which brands not to buy.
There's also the fact that it's very hard to detect and track poorer health due to unsatisfactory sanitation, so that the only two real options are A) everybody buys their own shitometer to measure every piece of food they eat and ignores sample size skewing results, or have the government show up and check that the producer is set up to keep shit out of the food.
I guess it just really sucks for those first few (thousands of) people who get sick off the rat shit before we know which brands not to buy.
There's also the fact that it's very hard to detect and track poorer health due to unsatisfactory sanitation, so that the only two real options are A) everybody buys their own shitometer to measure every piece of food they eat and ignores sample size skewing results, or have the government show up and check that the producer is set up to keep shit out of the food.
But think of the money to be made in the personal shitometer market!
I know whenever I find rat shit and fingers in my can of beans I make a point to go buy that brand again.
I think it's both hilarious and sad that even at this basic, basic level you can't come to grips with the concept of incomplete information.
I'm sure if the FDA or USDA didn't exist another consumer protection organization wouldn't take their place. That would be far too practical.
Well, to be fair, companies are far more likely to listen to private oversight groups when they come to the meetings riding unicorns.
Sentry on
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
wrote:
When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
Kellogg's was pulling their products with or without the FDA pressure. I have a feeling they won't be renewing any contracts with the processing plant.
Peanut Corporation of America is still open to lawsuits with or without an FDA, and even if a government run FDA does not exist and an impartial private one does, do you think they give this place accreditation?
If you opened your eyes and stopped smelling your own farts for 3 seconds you'd realize that bashing a federally run FDA doesn't equate to "companies should self-regulate".
It all boils down to your own deep and intense personal cowardice in the face of taxes.
Taxes boil down to your ability to morally justify seizing someone else's property and spending it to your own benefit. I would be more thoughtful about how I threw the word cowardice around if I were you.
kedinik on
I made a game! Hotline Maui. Requires mouse and keyboard.
I know whenever I find rat shit and fingers in my can of beans I make a point to go buy that brand again.
I think it's both hilarious and sad that even at this basic, basic level you can't come to grips with the concept of incomplete information.
The USDA has better information to work with? How on earth does a bloated, entrenched bureaucracy gain complete information?
By sending people to the factories instead of having every schmuck use the "does this kill me" test. Having a bureaucracy behind the guy with a microscope doesn't make the situation worse than some guy with no microscope.
It all boils down to your own deep and intense personal cowardice in the face of taxes.
Taxes boil down to your ability to morally justify seizing someone else's property and spending it to your own benefit. I would be more thoughtful about how I threw the word cowardice around if I were you.
You've never benefited from the collection and spending of taxes? Where do you live?
It all boils down to your own deep and intense personal cowardice in the face of taxes.
Taxes boil down to your ability to morally justify seizing someone else's property and spending it to your own benefit. I would be more thoughtful about how I threw the word cowardice around if I were you.
Say it with me now: "General Public Good."
Roads, schools, not being helpless when Mexico invades, etc.
It all boils down to your own deep and intense personal cowardice in the face of taxes.
Taxes boil down to your ability to morally justify seizing someone else's property and spending it to your own benefit. I would be more thoughtful about how I threw the word cowardice around if I were you.
You've never benefited from the collection and spending of taxes? Where do you live?
In a land where he makes all of his own food and paves all of his own roads and makes all his own electricity.
It all boils down to your own deep and intense personal cowardice in the face of taxes.
Taxes boil down to your ability to morally justify seizing someone else's property and spending it to your own benefit. I would be more thoughtful about how I threw the word cowardice around if I were you.
You've never benefited from the collection and spending of taxes? Where do you live?
In a land where he makes all of his own food and paves all of his own roads and makes all his own electricity.
He's a hydroelectric unicorn rancher in candyland.
Posts
Uh huh... while I'm sure in your mind no government would somehow, magically lead to less shit in my food, I'm curious as to who you think DID invent the internet.
You know, since you aren't letting anything like facts get in the way of your thoughts, I'm curious as to what titan of industry you think developed the internet. Please, regal me with your tale of private entrepreneurship in the face of big bad government intervention.
That has certainly been proven throughout history, eh? :rolleyes:
Someone hasn't read The Jungle.
1) You're welcome to supply me with examples of private regulatory schemes performing equally effectively or better. I'll wait.
2) Is that why they're swallowing each other up like a game of Odell Lake? Infrastructure-dependent businesses (i.e., industries with stupidly high entrance barriers) tend towards monopoly or oligopoly naturally unless the government specifically regulates otherwise. EDIT: also, you're blaming the government for not redressing the faults of the private sector? That's genius.
3) HURR HURR AL GORE HURR HURR
The hilarious thing is that you found exactly three (3) things in my post you thought you could address and have signally failed at all of them.
It was invented by researchers under government employ so that government scientists could communicate more easily. That means it was a government invention in every sense.
Bolded for WTF equivalent to 9-11 conspiracy stupidity - do you perhaps also wear a tinfoil helmet btw or live off the grid?
Play him off, keyboard cat!
XBL Gametag: mailarde
Screen Digest LOL3RZZ
Even funnier when you think about it, government, the DOD and Navy, invented the fucking computer.
Don't see how that's the government's fault, but...
PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
1) Believe it or not, when people eat shitty (heh) food and get infections from it, consumers hear about it and stop buying that brand. People acting in their own best interest in the free market find ways to see through bullshit and spend money on the things that are the most valuable to them. For instance, I have a feeling you won't buy Wal Mart peanut butter when I tell you that it infected thousands of people last year with bacterial rat shit.
The USDA can't possibly know or research enough details about the day-to-day workings in so many different industries to protect people as well as they protect themselves in a free market.
2) Yes, because government antitrust suits against AT&T worked so well.
I'm not blaming the government here, so much as wondering why the cellphone industry is supposed to prove something positive about the government.
3) It was a joke, you can unbind your panties. Thank you for enlightening me; I thought it was primarily researched at UCLA and Stanford, but apparently that was in conjunction with a company under government contract.
You're totally right, we should allow the free market to set things right with honest competition among important suppliers.
Ya know, like China does.
Packet switching wouldn't exist if it wasn't for the DOD.
Also, wet sidewalks are the leading cause of rain.
I think it's both hilarious and sad that even at this basic, basic level you can't come to grips with the concept of incomplete information.
Private industry has done all of these things as well and more besides. Look up the history of United Fruit sometime, or the Dutch East India Company.
Only China doesn't.
PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
Yes, thank god we pay the USDA so much to prevent this from happening in the first place.
...
I'm sure if the FDA or USDA didn't exist another consumer protection organization wouldn't take their place. That would be far too practical.
XBL Gametag: mailarde
Screen Digest LOL3RZZ
The USDA has better information to work with? How on earth does a bloated, entrenched bureaucracy gain complete information?
Since you used the word "practical," I assume you're ready to explain to me how such a group would be funded, where its access would come from - because I realize this may come as a soul-searing shock to you, Kevin, but it turns out many companies don't appreciate other private entities inspecting their physical plants - and how any recommendations it made would be enforced.
The really sad thing is that I don't believe for a second that you actually think such a group would be as or more effective. It all boils down to your own deep and intense personal cowardice in the face of taxes.
When was the last time you got sick and died from eating contaminated food?
There's also the fact that it's very hard to detect and track poorer health due to unsatisfactory sanitation, so that the only two real options are A) everybody buys their own shitometer to measure every piece of food they eat and ignores sample size skewing results, or have the government show up and check that the producer is set up to keep shit out of the food.
The market regulates them.
But think of the money to be made in the personal shitometer market!
Well, to be fair, companies are far more likely to listen to private oversight groups when they come to the meetings riding unicorns.
Kellogg's was pulling their products with or without the FDA pressure. I have a feeling they won't be renewing any contracts with the processing plant.
Peanut Corporation of America is still open to lawsuits with or without an FDA, and even if a government run FDA does not exist and an impartial private one does, do you think they give this place accreditation?
If you opened your eyes and stopped smelling your own farts for 3 seconds you'd realize that bashing a federally run FDA doesn't equate to "companies should self-regulate".
Taxes boil down to your ability to morally justify seizing someone else's property and spending it to your own benefit. I would be more thoughtful about how I threw the word cowardice around if I were you.
By sending people to the factories instead of having every schmuck use the "does this kill me" test. Having a bureaucracy behind the guy with a microscope doesn't make the situation worse than some guy with no microscope.
You've never benefited from the collection and spending of taxes? Where do you live?
Roads, schools, not being helpless when Mexico invades, etc.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
In a land where he makes all of his own food and paves all of his own roads and makes all his own electricity.
PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
After people died!
Edit: and after the government figured out it was peanuts and which peanut plant.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.