Much obliged. I didn't know very mainstream games like CoD once dabbled in the antediluvian arts of making some fucking sense.
Bloodrayne had a decent system here - you simply take a hold of enemies' weaponry after raguing them, and when the boomsticks are empty you discard them and find a new toy. No bullet or magazine teleportation, no ephemeral cache of mags or rounds. Of course, Bloodrayne also had a priest fighting you from inside an armored confession booth thingy. Or maybe that was the sequel? Anyway, insanity.
Here's another thing that defies logic - people being shot and not instantly collapsing and screaming in mind-warping megafuckpain. I've seen a picture of what a 930 m/s (3,051 ft/s) 5.56 round can do while going through a leg. At first I thought I was looking at a flesh-colored pile of fabric. That leg was no longer recognizable as a part of human anatomy anymore than an impressionistic study of anatomy by Bacon is. That was one damned round - those things are designed to kill and not wound (you reach for any semblance of humanity you can find in these matters), and are lovingly crafted to go on a merry jaunt inside of a struck target, basically redecorating its innards like the Queer Eye team on speed as it passes through.
In some FPSes the dystopian dust has an entire engine for rendering but you are lucky to get an enemy limping.
Wait, I've thought of the perfect flawed logic in a fighting game's story: Ehrgeiz. Most notably, Han Daehan. So, his leg gets engulfed in a black cloud, only to find it's missing (yet he can still feel that it hasn't just vanished; just been misplaced). So, he does the obvious thing of sticking a cybernetic replacement on there. Oh, did I mention it has a ROCKET LAUNCHER built into it?
Now, here's the kicker: if you beat the final final boss, i.e. the one you fight during the credits, one of the items he spits out is Han's leg. Somehow, despite the fact it's been inside some beastie's stomach, he's able to get it reattached during the ending, without any problems whatsoever, and regaining instant full use of it. I somehow doubt getting your leg sewn back on works like that.
BlitzAce1981 on
PSN ID - BlitzAce1981 FFXIV - Raiden Solitaire (Sargatanas)
I find it extremely amusing that in some FPSes enemies have all these meticulously detailed flinch animations when shot in certain parts, then after the animation ends they return to shooting you as if nothing happened. I'm looking at you, Killzone 2.
Okay, I've only ever saw videos of it, so I'm not sure if it carried over to the final release.
It does.
I was watching my uncle play it, and they would always writhe around screaming, he would turn his back, and then get shot.
Here's one that's always bugged me. It's in a ton of games and RPGs and gaming systems. D&D used to be one of the exceptions to it but now in 4th edition it's fallen prey to it as well.
The way that rogue/sneaky based classes can only back stab with incredibly limited weapon pools, usually just daggers.
It's like, my trained assassin man is fully capable of sneaking up and stabbing someone in the kidney with a dagger, but whoah, hand him a sword and he loses his ability to skewer people from behind?
Here's one that's always bugged me. It's in a ton of games and RPGs and gaming systems. D&D used to be one of the exceptions to it but now in 4th edition it's fallen prey to it as well.
The way that rogue/sneaky based classes can only back stab with incredibly limited weapon pools, usually just daggers.
It's like, my trained assassin man is fully capable of sneaking up and stabbing someone in the kidney with a dagger, but whoah, hand him a sword and he loses his ability to skewer people from behind?
A sword would be much more noticeable, to be fair.
So I was playing this terrible, terrible game yesterday called NecroVisioN (randomly capitalized letters are so edgy), which has a pretty interesting combat mechanic: you can wield both a ranged weapon and a melee weapon at the same time, and you can create combos with them (which are necessary because everyone takes way too much damage). What bothered me the most was that I could shoot a guy in the face with a rifle and not only would he continue fighting, he didn't react to it at all.
It's one of the worst games I've ever played for a ton of different reasons, but I'll leave those for a more relevant thread.
Why is it that a dagger does more damage from the back than from the front? The back is mostly just muscle, while the chest and stomach contain the heart, the intestines, the liver etc. It's actually way more effective to stab a guy in the front of the torso or the neck. I can understand approaching an enemy from behind, but you really should go for the neck.
I put the Tekken games between 3 and 4 out of 10 on the weirdo scale (which is not a statement on their quality as games, of course). The only ending I remember, I'm ashamed to say, is one of the male fighters (I want to say Dilbert's boss' son) waking up and burying his head in a female fighters' cleavage.
Again, fighting games are weird. Even the less weird ones.
Tekken 5's endings are magical.
The whole game is magical. I mean, kangaroos and pandas? Invisible dinosaurs? Granted, that was the really crappy movie, but that ratchets the weird up to 8, easy.
Wouldn't most logical games be profoundly unfun to play?
I mean, sure, knocking a bad guy thirty feet into the air with a shotgun won't happen in real life, that's why it's awesome.
It's fun when it happens in Saint's Row 2.
It's ridiculous and immersion-breaking when it happens in Fallout 3.
Contrary to popular belief and the TTGL School of Thought, ridiculous is not always immediately and totally awesome.
It is, frequently, but it must work with the rest of the elements in the game. Otherwise, every game would just be an unending ride of the same ridiculous, over-the-top events over and over again, and they'd all sell fantastically well. It's about striking a right balance. Same thing for logical games (of course, a lot of people, myself included, enjoy simulators, which are both profoundly logical--if done right--and more immersive than any game where you punch someone into the troposphere).
No no no, I agree with your opinion, therefore it is clearly a well researched and erudite encapsulation of the major issues affecting contemporary gamers 8-).
Also, *BOING*. Although I really hate that thing they do in Japanese media where someone will lift up a hot girl's skirt or squeeze her breasts, the camera will linger on her for ages, and then she'll hit/scream at the guy, as if that somehow makes the male fantasy part of it less obvious. It's similar to game devs dressing up women in stripperific costumes, but making her a tough-talking bad ass, like her sole purpose isn't for us guys to masterbate to. I mean I'm totally cool with showing women with perfect bodies and gigantic boobs in any game or cartoon created in the world, ever, just wish they'd be more honest about it.
Why is it that a dagger does more damage from the back than from the front? The back is mostly just muscle, while the chest and stomach contain the heart, the intestines, the liver etc. It's actually way more effective to stab a guy in the front of the torso or the neck. I can understand approaching an enemy from behind, but you really should go for the neck.
The idea is that they're either unaware of you or are unable to give you their full attention so that you can, using a small piercing weapon, slip through their defenses and have your way with their vital organs.
It's generally not a literal stabbing in the back. This is why D&D has called it sneak attacking for two editions.
Definitely reminds me why I got out of the genre. The heyday was Indiana Jones and Fate of Atlantis, Sam and Max, Full Throttle, Monkey Island III and Day of the Tentacle.
I kinda liked the 6th(?) Broken Sword game, Longest Journey, whatever the sequel to LJ was called, BASS, the Trilby stuff, and the handful of other adventure games I've played but can't remember. It was never a 'first choice' genre for me though. The main problem I found was that whilst the writing/plot was the main appeal for me, most of these also had multiple endings, and the decisions you made that affected them could come a quarter or half-way through the game, so if you screwed up you'd have to play through most of the goddamn game again and slavishly repeat the puzzles you'd already solved. No way was I going back through 20hrs of cutscenes for the best ending. So I often ended up using walkthroughs to try and find out the criteria for the best ending...which unfortunately usually had to go into significant detail with regards to important puzzles in the games to relay this information. At the end of the day I kept wondering if half of these games would've been better off as professionally-made films or animations.
I think everybody needs to spend four hours poring over this informative list of Game Tropes. It's a fun way to spend the day when I'm not otherwise supposed to be working.
Bursar on
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MongerI got the ham stink.Dallas, TXRegistered Userregular
I think everybody needs to spend four hours poring over this informative list of Game Tropes. It's a fun way to spend the day when I'm not otherwise supposed to be working.
I think we should start marking links to TVTropes as NSF Spare Time.
I think everybody needs to spend four hours poring over this informative list of Game Tropes. It's a fun way to spend the day when I'm not otherwise supposed to be working.
I am TRYING to get through post-grad, thanks for nothing. :zzz:
So in Thief, killing someone is noisy, but clubbing someone on the back of the head and sending them in their heavy armor and their weapons clattering across the ground is completely silent.
In all the Splinter Cell games, everyone keeps leaving around ammo for Sam's pistol, but his pistol fires pretty rare ammunition. Why would that be lying around some terrorist den in Indonesia? They also seem to leave spare grenades for him to use even though he uses special grenades that are launched via canisters of compressed air. And while his rifle may use widely used and extremely common ammunition, which is actually the same ammunition his enemies often shoot him with and they actually use weapons that use the same magazines his rifle does, he can't pick up and use their ammo.
In Splinter Cell: Pandora Tomorrow, they introduced the laser sight to make the pistol more accurate. But it constantly sways back and forth in the air across the length of the screen... Only Sam is visably holding his gun pretty steady.
And the split jump? Why? Why would you do that ever?
Then there's the recently released mediocre Velvet Assassin (I still love it). Shooting an enemy in the head is extremely noisy and will put everyone in the area on alert for some time. Drag a guy to the ground and stab him in the chest repeatedly for several seconds? Completely silent.
somebody earlier said Guilty Gear was like the weirdest fighting game ever. I know for a fact this isn't true, because I once played something called jojo's bizarre adventure (or something) on dreamcast.
I can't remember many specifics, but one of the characters could make an enormous yellow construction digger smash from the ground. and that was one of the standard moves
Tig on
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KorKnown to detonate from time to timeRegistered Userregular
Taking out a magazine, replacing it, somehow not losing out on any unspent rounds. I'm afraid instant arithmetical satisfaction requiring bullet teleporting and instant refilling of cartridges and mags is not exactly a priority for arms manufacturers. A HUD I can understand but I can't think of one current FPS that actually has your unspent bullets not returning to the very large and very heavy pool of bullets you carry around.
Also, grenades being iffy at a reasonably close distance, even indoors. My knowledge of martial matters and boomy things in general is limited because I didn't exactly savor military service, but one thing I do know is that without decent cover there is no way you can be in an average corridor with an average grenade and not only get fragged silly and deafened - the blast of the damn thing will feel as if a brick wall is passing through you, brick molecules phasing through your own, much softer lattices.
Didn't King Kong do this? This pissed me off because I reload out of habit. It's bad enough I'm surrounded by dinosaurs!
It did, but I loved that so much. I also loved that you had no HUD, and instead Jack told you how many clips he had left. It's always nice to be fighting a pack of raptors and hear, "Only one clip left..." That's when you grab sticks and rocks and go caveman on those mofos.
The first Halo does this, but only on Co-op.
If you play single player, you see that your assault rifle has 350+ bullets remaining. but if you play co-op, you only see clips remaining. if you spend 2 bullets out of a 35 bullets clip, when you reload, you lose a full clip.
somebody earlier said Guilty Gear was like the weirdest fighting game ever. I know for a fact this isn't true, because I once played something called jojo's bizarre adventure (or something) on dreamcast.
I can't remember many specifics, but one of the characters could make an enormous yellow construction digger smash from the ground. and that was one of the standard moves
There are only a few games that take stamina into account in action games. IGI or I'm Going In being the best know, how is it no one blinks an eye when the FPS star is able to sprint while having four guns in his backpack? How is Lara Croft able to do backflips with a dozen grenades and pistols and ammo clips on her belt and not tire out?
Can anyone here actually sprint a hundred yards without seventy pounds of gear on their backs? I think not.
emnmnme on
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KorKnown to detonate from time to timeRegistered Userregular
There are only a few games that take stamina into account in action games. IGI or I'm Going In being the best know, how is it no one blinks an eye when the FPS star is able to sprint while having four guns in his backpack? How is Lara Croft able to do backflips with a dozen grenades and pistols and ammo clips on her belt and not tire out?
Can anyone here actually sprint a hundred yards without seventy pounds of gear on their backs? I think not.
Well, the arguement here is that we aren't playing average Joe, and average Emily.
We're playing best of the best Mark, or super agile Kate.
No one would play a game involving Joe, the 220lbs farmers tan soldier that was drafted into the military at the age of 16. Who thinks the world is out to get him and listens to shitty music all day in his spare time.
There are only a few games that take stamina into account in action games. IGI or I'm Going In being the best know, how is it no one blinks an eye when the FPS star is able to sprint while having four guns in his backpack? How is Lara Croft able to do backflips with a dozen grenades and pistols and ammo clips on her belt and not tire out?
Can anyone here actually sprint a hundred yards without seventy pounds of gear on their backs? I think not.
Well, the arguement here is that we aren't playing average Joe, and average Emily.
We're playing best of the best Mark, or super agile Kate.
No one would play a game involving Joe, the 220lbs farmers tan soldier that was drafted into the military at the age of 16. Who thinks the world is out to get him and listens to shitty music all day in his spare time.
This is getting a little bit into "reality is unrealistic."
Video games haven't even started to cover some of the most bad ass people in history.
-Tactical reloading/mag changes(when you reload and the mag(it isn't called a clip) isn't empty) that resets the amount of ammo you have have in the mag to 30. It should go to 31, because of the round that's already in the chamber.
-Also with tactical reloads I hate when you have to charge the weapon again. A ROUND WAS ALREADY IN THE CHAMBER!
-Charging a weapon every fucking time you switch weapons.
-Balls of fire in explosions (particularly with frag grenades). Most explosions DO NOT produce a ball of fire. This normally will only happen when there's an accelerant added to the mix. Game developers watch too many movies.
-Most rockets and grenade launchers will explode if you shoot them point blank at a target. This doesn't happen in real life.
-Lack of any backblast from rocket launchers.
-Long grenade fuses. Most grenades have a 3-5 second fuse. I've seen it as long as ~10 seconds in some games.
-Grenades cooking(the "timer" starts ticking after you pull the pin) on grenades that have spoons(the spoon on a grenade is the part that looks like it's made to clip onto your belt) after you pull the pin. You have to release the spoon for it to start cooking. It will NOT explode in your hand until you release the spoon. The pin is only there to keep the spoon from releasing.
-Large blast radius on shaped charged explosives. The RPG-7 and bazookas are common culprits.
-Small blast radius on frag grenades. Most frag grenades have a kill radius of 5meters (about 16 ft). The wound radius is typically 15 meters I think. I can't remember.
-Sniper rifles typically do more damage than weapons of the same caliber.
-Games that have tracers on every bullet.
-The 3 round burst on the M16. 3 round burst works just like full auto but is limited to 3 rounds, meaning you have to hold the trigger down to fire 3 rounds, you shouldn't be able to left click (press the button) and have 3 rounds fire.
To be fair, FPS games are the equivalent of action movies, so they are to entertain and make the masculine parts of our brains go FUCK YEAH AWESOME, not for us to think about physics and reality and whatnot.
somebody earlier said Guilty Gear was like the weirdest fighting game ever. I know for a fact this isn't true, because I once played something called jojo's bizarre adventure (or something) on dreamcast.
I can't remember many specifics, but one of the characters could make an enormous yellow construction digger smash from the ground. and that was one of the standard moves
That's the name. It's a manga. All the character's have some living curse they control. They're called Stands and they're all named after Tarot cards. The bad guy's stand is The World (the most powerful card), and it allows him to stop time and throw shit at you (like construction rigs.)
Also, *BOING*. Although I really hate that thing they do in Japanese media where someone will lift up a hot girl's skirt or squeeze her breasts, the camera will linger on her for ages, and then she'll hit/scream at the guy, as if that somehow makes the male fantasy part of it less obvious. It's similar to game devs dressing up women in stripperific costumes, but making her a tough-talking bad ass, like her sole purpose isn't for us guys to masterbate to. I mean I'm totally cool with showing women with perfect bodies and gigantic boobs in any game or cartoon created in the world, ever, just wish they'd be more honest about it.
Well, the whole stripperific thing is easily as American as it is Japanese (after all, we Americans gave the world the mass-produced pin-up and the racing queen).
The big question, of course, is when is it better to be honest and blatant about it, or when is it better just to hold it as a stylistic choice. In the Bayonetta thread, we've got people arguing it both ways--on one hand, they're being honest that they're trying to appeal to that unique S&M librarian with really long hair fetish group. On the other hand, it's pretty damn obvious from all the crotch shots they're just going for the cheap appeal.
For me personally, the line is drawn somewhere between "well, okay, she's got a skimpy outfit. So what? The Greeks fucking fought nude in their epics, who am I to judge? I'm a fucking prude, after all..." and "All right, if I see that bitch's crotch one more time, I'm going to shake my head profoundly and re-evaluate my choice in going with this game". I suppose I'm willing to overlook a lot of issues in character design so long as the character itself isn't a total whore--and by whore, I mean her boobs or crotch aren't secondary characters in their own right (see: TTGL). Like evil, it requires intent, not just presence. But that only works for me, and obviously, designers are not going to cater to my tastes specifically.
One thing that kind of annoys me, though I don't think it could be said it goes against 'logic' necessarily, so much as reality--in the Red Alert games, the Soviet Military (I will not say faction, I hate how that's been applied to everything now) is given these gigantic honking steam-roller tanks with two high-caliber cannons on their turrets, whereas the Allied Forces are given this pansy ass high-speed tanks apparently constructed out of shiny aluminum pinball machine casing, with tiny guns.
This is not an accurate representation of any historical time period. For the entirety of the Cold War, and even before it, the USSR's tank doctrine relied on large numbers of heavily armed but increasingly fast, and above all small-profile tanks--giving us high-speed MBTs like the T-80. The Allies, on the other hand, frequently engaged each other in who could make the biggest, slowest, most expensive, most heavily armored death machine, fuel consumption be damned--giving us giants like the Leopard and the Abrams. I could go into things like horse-power to tonne ratios, but you get the point.
I realize the assumption is based on the idea that the USSR was a really big country, and thus, a land power. And I realize this is overlooking things like time travel and commandos with their shirts unzipped and their knockers on display in order to save the Free World from the Red Menace. But this is one thing that annoys me. With the exception of the IS-2, the USSR had no super tank in the Cold War period, while the Allies had several.
Oh, and 'Allies versus Soviets' is kind of annoying. In part because the actual Allies, i.e. the United Nations, included the USSR, and that the USSR had its own alliance. I suppose the most accurate would be 'NATO versus Warsaw Pact', or you could even narrow it down to 'United States versus Soviet Union'.
Synthesis on
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KorKnown to detonate from time to timeRegistered Userregular
edited May 2009
Oh, just a quick one to toss out here:
Any Star Wars game where you get a lightsaber, and that lightsaber doesn't immediately chop someone in half.
A standard storm trooper should not take 6 or 7 swings to kill with a damn lightsaber.
RTS's. How exactly am I ordering around these individual soldiers in real time? Suspension of disbelief and all that, and I enjoy the genre, but stepping back it does not make any sense at all.
-Tactical reloading/mag changes(when you reload and the mag(it isn't called a clip) isn't empty) that resets the amount of ammo you have have in the mag to 30. It should go to 31, because of the round that's already in the chamber.
-Also with tactical reloads I hate when you have to charge the weapon again. A ROUND WAS ALREADY IN THE CHAMBER!
-Charging a weapon every fucking time you switch weapons.
-Balls of fire in explosions (particularly with frag grenades). Most explosions DO NOT produce a ball of fire. This normally will only happen when there's an accelerant added to the mix. Game developers watch too many movies.
-Most rockets and grenade launchers will explode if you shoot them point blank at a target. This doesn't happen in real life.
-Lack of any backblast from rocket launchers.
-Long grenade fuses. Most grenades have a 3-5 second fuse. I've seen it as long as ~10 seconds in some games.
-Grenades cooking(the "timer" starts ticking after you pull the pin) on grenades that have spoons(the spoon on a grenade is the part that looks like it's made to clip onto your belt) after you pull the pin. You have to release the spoon for it to start cooking. It will NOT explode in your hand until you release the spoon. The pin is only there to keep the spoon from releasing.
-Large blast radius on shaped charged explosives. The RPG-7 and bazookas are common culprits.
-Small blast radius on frag grenades. Most frag grenades have a kill radius of 5meters (about 16 ft). The wound radius is typically 15 meters I think. I can't remember.
-Sniper rifles typically do more damage than weapons of the same caliber.
-Games that have tracers on every bullet.
-The 3 round burst on the M16. 3 round burst works just like full auto but is limited to 3 rounds, meaning you have to hold the trigger down to fire 3 rounds, you shouldn't be able to left click (press the button) and have 3 rounds fire.
I could go on...
That's not logic, that's expertise in a field. Not everyone is a gun nut. I didn't know that stuff, and I'd wager the average person doesn't, either.
Vegan on
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AkimboEGMr. FancypantsWears very fine pants indeedRegistered Userregular
RTS's. How exactly am I ordering around these individual soldiers in real time? Suspension of disbelief and all that, and I enjoy the genre, but stepping back it does not make any sense at all.
This man speaks the truth.
This isn't an RTS-exclusive issue, though. When will I get a pirating game where I play the captain giving out orders, rather than the actual ship?
AkimboEG on
Give me a kiss to build a dream on; And my imagination will thrive upon that kiss; Sweetheart, I ask no more than this; A kiss to build a dream on
-Tactical reloading/mag changes(when you reload and the mag(it isn't called a clip) isn't empty) that resets the amount of ammo you have have in the mag to 30. It should go to 31, because of the round that's already in the chamber.
-Also with tactical reloads I hate when you have to charge the weapon again. A ROUND WAS ALREADY IN THE CHAMBER!
-Charging a weapon every fucking time you switch weapons.
-Balls of fire in explosions (particularly with frag grenades). Most explosions DO NOT produce a ball of fire. This normally will only happen when there's an accelerant added to the mix. Game developers watch too many movies.
-Most rockets and grenade launchers will explode if you shoot them point blank at a target. This doesn't happen in real life.
-Lack of any backblast from rocket launchers.
-Long grenade fuses. Most grenades have a 3-5 second fuse. I've seen it as long as ~10 seconds in some games.
-Grenades cooking(the "timer" starts ticking after you pull the pin) on grenades that have spoons(the spoon on a grenade is the part that looks like it's made to clip onto your belt) after you pull the pin. You have to release the spoon for it to start cooking. It will NOT explode in your hand until you release the spoon. The pin is only there to keep the spoon from releasing.
-Large blast radius on shaped charged explosives. The RPG-7 and bazookas are common culprits.
-Small blast radius on frag grenades. Most frag grenades have a kill radius of 5meters (about 16 ft). The wound radius is typically 15 meters I think. I can't remember.
-Sniper rifles typically do more damage than weapons of the same caliber.
-Games that have tracers on every bullet.
-The 3 round burst on the M16. 3 round burst works just like full auto but is limited to 3 rounds, meaning you have to hold the trigger down to fire 3 rounds, you shouldn't be able to left click (press the button) and have 3 rounds fire.
I could go on...
That's not logic, that's expertise in a field. Not everyone is a gun nut. I didn't know that stuff, and I'd wager the average person doesn't, either.
Hah it's not so much that I'm a gun nut, as it is due to the fact that I just got out of the Army. It just gets to me.
RTS's. How exactly am I ordering around these individual soldiers in real time? Suspension of disbelief and all that, and I enjoy the genre, but stepping back it does not make any sense at all.
This man speaks the truth.
This isn't an RTS-exclusive issue, though. When will I get a pirating game where I play the captain giving out orders, rather than the actual ship?
In honesty, with the advent of communications, video cameras, observer aircraft, AWACS, and all those expensive military toys, RTS in a modern setting isn't so implausible. But in things like Age of Empires, it's pretty ridiculous.
The Total War games handle it better, with limited observations on the enemy.
Fighting games always have this problem. For example you have this character who is built with more muscles than you can imagine is about ten feet tall and looks like he or she could punch through walls no problem, you are up against what can only be considered a small, skinny 12 year old girl who looks like she could break in two if you so much as stare at her. You are down to the last of you're energy bar and this girl performs a move that literally looks like a bitch slap and you go flying through the air in a knockout. For someone of that build a 'bitch slap' shouldn't do anything to them let alone send them flying. It would be interesting to see a fighting game that the damage system is more than just a simple energy bar.
Tiberium being represented in cash money as it is dumped in the refineries. Um, the global economy is mostly completely dysfunctional and each faction has its own infrastructure and doesn't have to contend with any markets. It's not as if they actually have to buy their military gear - they just have to produce it for themselves and maybe pay off the personnel. Representing it as money does not sense make, at all.
RTS's. How exactly am I ordering around these individual soldiers in real time? Suspension of disbelief and all that, and I enjoy the genre, but stepping back it does not make any sense at all.
This man speaks the truth.
This isn't an RTS-exclusive issue, though. When will I get a pirating game where I play the captain giving out orders, rather than the actual ship?
In honesty, with the advent of communications, video cameras, observer aircraft, AWACS, and all those expensive military toys, RTS in a modern setting isn't so implausible. But in things like Age of Empires, it's pretty ridiculous.
The Total War games handle it better, with limited observations on the enemy.
I'm not an expert on this, but yeah, I think a detailed overhead view with real time feedback and communication is very much what they're already doing today.
They just don't use the technology for dumb stuff like what you do in an RTS
RTS's. How exactly am I ordering around these individual soldiers in real time? Suspension of disbelief and all that, and I enjoy the genre, but stepping back it does not make any sense at all.
This man speaks the truth.
This isn't an RTS-exclusive issue, though. When will I get a pirating game where I play the captain giving out orders, rather than the actual ship?
In honesty, with the advent of communications, video cameras, observer aircraft, AWACS, and all those expensive military toys, RTS in a modern setting isn't so implausible. But in things like Age of Empires, it's pretty ridiculous.
The Total War games handle it better, with limited observations on the enemy.
I'm not an expert on this, but yeah, I think a detailed overhead view with real time feedback and communication is very much what they're already doing today.
They just don't use the technology for dumb stuff like what you do in an RTS
Yep. The Army has radios, and other technology (that I can't really speak of due to opsec) that approximate the control you have in RTS's. Unlike RTS's there is no micromanagement (well there shouldn't be, competent commanders don't micromanage. Hell I had a CO in Iraq who would sleep in his vehicle during missions ). The battalion commander gives tasks to his Company Commanders who in turn break up their mission into tasks for the Platoon Leaders who break up their mission and delegate tasks to the Squad leaders. So a BC might know where everyone is on the battlefield and receive updates from the Company Commanders, at most he'll give guidance to the Company Commanders but normally no one lower than that.
Posts
Bloodrayne had a decent system here - you simply take a hold of enemies' weaponry after raguing them, and when the boomsticks are empty you discard them and find a new toy. No bullet or magazine teleportation, no ephemeral cache of mags or rounds. Of course, Bloodrayne also had a priest fighting you from inside an armored confession booth thingy. Or maybe that was the sequel? Anyway, insanity.
Here's another thing that defies logic - people being shot and not instantly collapsing and screaming in mind-warping megafuckpain. I've seen a picture of what a 930 m/s (3,051 ft/s) 5.56 round can do while going through a leg. At first I thought I was looking at a flesh-colored pile of fabric. That leg was no longer recognizable as a part of human anatomy anymore than an impressionistic study of anatomy by Bacon is. That was one damned round - those things are designed to kill and not wound (you reach for any semblance of humanity you can find in these matters), and are lovingly crafted to go on a merry jaunt inside of a struck target, basically redecorating its innards like the Queer Eye team on speed as it passes through.
In some FPSes the dystopian dust has an entire engine for rendering but you are lucky to get an enemy limping.
Now, here's the kicker: if you beat the final final boss, i.e. the one you fight during the credits, one of the items he spits out is Han's leg. Somehow, despite the fact it's been inside some beastie's stomach, he's able to get it reattached during the ending, without any problems whatsoever, and regaining instant full use of it. I somehow doubt getting your leg sewn back on works like that.
It does.
I was watching my uncle play it, and they would always writhe around screaming, he would turn his back, and then get shot.
It's hilarious.
The way that rogue/sneaky based classes can only back stab with incredibly limited weapon pools, usually just daggers.
It's like, my trained assassin man is fully capable of sneaking up and stabbing someone in the kidney with a dagger, but whoah, hand him a sword and he loses his ability to skewer people from behind?
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
A sword would be much more noticeable, to be fair.
It's one of the worst games I've ever played for a ton of different reasons, but I'll leave those for a more relevant thread.
Why is it that a dagger does more damage from the back than from the front? The back is mostly just muscle, while the chest and stomach contain the heart, the intestines, the liver etc. It's actually way more effective to stab a guy in the front of the torso or the neck. I can understand approaching an enemy from behind, but you really should go for the neck.
No no no, I agree with your opinion, therefore it is clearly a well researched and erudite encapsulation of the major issues affecting contemporary gamers 8-).
Also, *BOING*. Although I really hate that thing they do in Japanese media where someone will lift up a hot girl's skirt or squeeze her breasts, the camera will linger on her for ages, and then she'll hit/scream at the guy, as if that somehow makes the male fantasy part of it less obvious. It's similar to game devs dressing up women in stripperific costumes, but making her a tough-talking bad ass, like her sole purpose isn't for us guys to masterbate to. I mean I'm totally cool with showing women with perfect bodies and gigantic boobs in any game or cartoon created in the world, ever, just wish they'd be more honest about it.
Buuuut, you may just want to read the final page since it's the most important to the topic: http://www.oldmanmurray.com/features/79.html
Mind-boggling.
The idea is that they're either unaware of you or are unable to give you their full attention so that you can, using a small piercing weapon, slip through their defenses and have your way with their vital organs.
It's generally not a literal stabbing in the back. This is why D&D has called it sneak attacking for two editions.
Definitely reminds me why I got out of the genre. The heyday was Indiana Jones and Fate of Atlantis, Sam and Max, Full Throttle, Monkey Island III and Day of the Tentacle.
The rest were shite.
PSN: Wstfgl | GamerTag: An Evil Plan | Battle.net: FallenIdle#1970
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All right, people. It is not a gerbil. It is not a hamster. It is not a guinea pig. It is a death rabbit. Death. Rabbit. Say it with me, now.
I am TRYING to get through post-grad, thanks for nothing. :zzz:
So in Thief, killing someone is noisy, but clubbing someone on the back of the head and sending them in their heavy armor and their weapons clattering across the ground is completely silent.
In all the Splinter Cell games, everyone keeps leaving around ammo for Sam's pistol, but his pistol fires pretty rare ammunition. Why would that be lying around some terrorist den in Indonesia? They also seem to leave spare grenades for him to use even though he uses special grenades that are launched via canisters of compressed air. And while his rifle may use widely used and extremely common ammunition, which is actually the same ammunition his enemies often shoot him with and they actually use weapons that use the same magazines his rifle does, he can't pick up and use their ammo.
In Splinter Cell: Pandora Tomorrow, they introduced the laser sight to make the pistol more accurate. But it constantly sways back and forth in the air across the length of the screen... Only Sam is visably holding his gun pretty steady.
And the split jump? Why? Why would you do that ever?
Then there's the recently released mediocre Velvet Assassin (I still love it). Shooting an enemy in the head is extremely noisy and will put everyone in the area on alert for some time. Drag a guy to the ground and stab him in the chest repeatedly for several seconds? Completely silent.
I can't remember many specifics, but one of the characters could make an enormous yellow construction digger smash from the ground. and that was one of the standard moves
The first Halo does this, but only on Co-op.
If you play single player, you see that your assault rifle has 350+ bullets remaining. but if you play co-op, you only see clips remaining. if you spend 2 bullets out of a 35 bullets clip, when you reload, you lose a full clip.
They dropped this for all later haloes.
Pokemon Safari - Sneasel, Pawniard, ????
I dunno.
Jojo seems pretty tame compared to GG.
One of GG's super moves is a teddy bear on fire.
Can anyone here actually sprint a hundred yards without seventy pounds of gear on their backs? I think not.
Well, the arguement here is that we aren't playing average Joe, and average Emily.
We're playing best of the best Mark, or super agile Kate.
No one would play a game involving Joe, the 220lbs farmers tan soldier that was drafted into the military at the age of 16. Who thinks the world is out to get him and listens to shitty music all day in his spare time.
Pokemon Safari - Sneasel, Pawniard, ????
This is getting a little bit into "reality is unrealistic."
Video games haven't even started to cover some of the most bad ass people in history.
http://www.badassoftheweek.com/tsutsui.html
-The already mentioned "Pool of Ammo".
-Tactical reloading/mag changes(when you reload and the mag(it isn't called a clip) isn't empty) that resets the amount of ammo you have have in the mag to 30. It should go to 31, because of the round that's already in the chamber.
-Also with tactical reloads I hate when you have to charge the weapon again. A ROUND WAS ALREADY IN THE CHAMBER!
-Charging a weapon every fucking time you switch weapons.
-Balls of fire in explosions (particularly with frag grenades). Most explosions DO NOT produce a ball of fire. This normally will only happen when there's an accelerant added to the mix. Game developers watch too many movies.
-Most rockets and grenade launchers will explode if you shoot them point blank at a target. This doesn't happen in real life.
-Lack of any backblast from rocket launchers.
-Long grenade fuses. Most grenades have a 3-5 second fuse. I've seen it as long as ~10 seconds in some games.
-Grenades cooking(the "timer" starts ticking after you pull the pin) on grenades that have spoons(the spoon on a grenade is the part that looks like it's made to clip onto your belt) after you pull the pin. You have to release the spoon for it to start cooking. It will NOT explode in your hand until you release the spoon. The pin is only there to keep the spoon from releasing.
-Large blast radius on shaped charged explosives. The RPG-7 and bazookas are common culprits.
-Small blast radius on frag grenades. Most frag grenades have a kill radius of 5meters (about 16 ft). The wound radius is typically 15 meters I think. I can't remember.
-Sniper rifles typically do more damage than weapons of the same caliber.
-Games that have tracers on every bullet.
-The 3 round burst on the M16. 3 round burst works just like full auto but is limited to 3 rounds, meaning you have to hold the trigger down to fire 3 rounds, you shouldn't be able to left click (press the button) and have 3 rounds fire.
I could go on...
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
That's the name. It's a manga. All the character's have some living curse they control. They're called Stands and they're all named after Tarot cards. The bad guy's stand is The World (the most powerful card), and it allows him to stop time and throw shit at you (like construction rigs.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JoJo%27s_Bizarre_Adventure
Well, the whole stripperific thing is easily as American as it is Japanese (after all, we Americans gave the world the mass-produced pin-up and the racing queen).
The big question, of course, is when is it better to be honest and blatant about it, or when is it better just to hold it as a stylistic choice. In the Bayonetta thread, we've got people arguing it both ways--on one hand, they're being honest that they're trying to appeal to that unique S&M librarian with really long hair fetish group. On the other hand, it's pretty damn obvious from all the crotch shots they're just going for the cheap appeal.
For me personally, the line is drawn somewhere between "well, okay, she's got a skimpy outfit. So what? The Greeks fucking fought nude in their epics, who am I to judge? I'm a fucking prude, after all..." and "All right, if I see that bitch's crotch one more time, I'm going to shake my head profoundly and re-evaluate my choice in going with this game". I suppose I'm willing to overlook a lot of issues in character design so long as the character itself isn't a total whore--and by whore, I mean her boobs or crotch aren't secondary characters in their own right (see: TTGL). Like evil, it requires intent, not just presence. But that only works for me, and obviously, designers are not going to cater to my tastes specifically.
One thing that kind of annoys me, though I don't think it could be said it goes against 'logic' necessarily, so much as reality--in the Red Alert games, the Soviet Military (I will not say faction, I hate how that's been applied to everything now) is given these gigantic honking steam-roller tanks with two high-caliber cannons on their turrets, whereas the Allied Forces are given this pansy ass high-speed tanks apparently constructed out of shiny aluminum pinball machine casing, with tiny guns.
This is not an accurate representation of any historical time period. For the entirety of the Cold War, and even before it, the USSR's tank doctrine relied on large numbers of heavily armed but increasingly fast, and above all small-profile tanks--giving us high-speed MBTs like the T-80. The Allies, on the other hand, frequently engaged each other in who could make the biggest, slowest, most expensive, most heavily armored death machine, fuel consumption be damned--giving us giants like the Leopard and the Abrams. I could go into things like horse-power to tonne ratios, but you get the point.
I realize the assumption is based on the idea that the USSR was a really big country, and thus, a land power. And I realize this is overlooking things like time travel and commandos with their shirts unzipped and their knockers on display in order to save the Free World from the Red Menace. But this is one thing that annoys me. With the exception of the IS-2, the USSR had no super tank in the Cold War period, while the Allies had several.
Oh, and 'Allies versus Soviets' is kind of annoying. In part because the actual Allies, i.e. the United Nations, included the USSR, and that the USSR had its own alliance. I suppose the most accurate would be 'NATO versus Warsaw Pact', or you could even narrow it down to 'United States versus Soviet Union'.
Any Star Wars game where you get a lightsaber, and that lightsaber doesn't immediately chop someone in half.
A standard storm trooper should not take 6 or 7 swings to kill with a damn lightsaber.
Pokemon Safari - Sneasel, Pawniard, ????
http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=16534
That's not logic, that's expertise in a field. Not everyone is a gun nut. I didn't know that stuff, and I'd wager the average person doesn't, either.
This isn't an RTS-exclusive issue, though. When will I get a pirating game where I play the captain giving out orders, rather than the actual ship?
Hah it's not so much that I'm a gun nut, as it is due to the fact that I just got out of the Army. It just gets to me.
In honesty, with the advent of communications, video cameras, observer aircraft, AWACS, and all those expensive military toys, RTS in a modern setting isn't so implausible. But in things like Age of Empires, it's pretty ridiculous.
The Total War games handle it better, with limited observations on the enemy.
I'm not an expert on this, but yeah, I think a detailed overhead view with real time feedback and communication is very much what they're already doing today.
They just don't use the technology for dumb stuff like what you do in an RTS
Yep. The Army has radios, and other technology (that I can't really speak of due to opsec) that approximate the control you have in RTS's. Unlike RTS's there is no micromanagement (well there shouldn't be, competent commanders don't micromanage. Hell I had a CO in Iraq who would sleep in his vehicle during missions