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Obama asked not to lay a wreath on the Confederate Veterans memorial.

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Posts

  • Captain CarrotCaptain Carrot Harrisonburg, VARegistered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Honoring him for being in court, not for the reasons he was in court.

  • Dunadan019Dunadan019 Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    YamiB. wrote: »
    Dunadan019 wrote: »
    YamiB. wrote: »
    I don't understand how people can think that those fighting on the side of Confederacy didn't commit treason. They raised arms against the army of the United States, it doesn't matter if they were still US citizens. Do you guys just think that treason doesn't exist?

    As for the issue with placing the wreath, I would prefer that it wasn't done. But it is lower on my priorities with this issue or with what Obama should worry about.

    very simple. if you commit murder but never get charged, you don't get punished for murder.

    if you commit treason and never get charged or get absolved without ever being charged, you don't get punished for treason.

    they are not traitors because they were never charged with treason. regardless of what they would have been, they were never proven guilty. in the eyes of the law, they were not traitors.

    Yeah you don't get punished for murder if you don't get found guilty of it. That doesn't mean that you aren't a murder. If you take an action and are never held accountable for it that still means that you took that action and thus labels related to that action can legitimately be applied to you. I think we can see that obviously those fighting for the Confederacy committed treason and thus should be viewed as traitors even though they were not officially charged. I'm not arguing what they should be in the eyes of the law, I'm arguing how would should consider them in the eyes of society.

    Do you think that people like the murders of Emmett Till shouldn't be labeled as such even with clear evidence just because they were found innocent?

    that was in response to the "they were all traitors and not foreign invaders that attacked united states troops". they weren't, its cut and dry.

    as far as why we should honor them, I personally refuse to believe that they were all evil regardless of how many letters are dug up showing their support for slavery. during vietnam, you could find tons of people who were completely racist and genocidal towards all asians, that doesn't make them evil. in 2002, you could probably find tons of people ready to kill all arabs and muslims, they aren't evil for that either.

    but thats just me and you are welcome to believe and think whatever you like.

  • SheepSheep Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2009
    Dyscord wrote: »
    Sheep wrote: »
    Scalfin wrote: »
    I suppose that means you send wreaths to serial rapists, provided that they're American.

    Ooo. Wow. Grasping at straws already?
    "Honoring" the dead is something the living do, for the benefit of other living people. I don't see why people who apparently continue to think that the south's cause was just and righteous are worth paying any mind to at all.

    So bravery, valor and patriotism to your home isn't a value to instill in others?

    Hmmm.

    meh, continue dodging the point all you like

    What, exactly, is the point?

    My point is that I'm not going to expect Southerners and the South to live in the shadow of something that happened over a century ago.

    The only people who tend to still be upset about the Civil War is Northerners. Southerners don't look back on the Civil War and think about Slavery. They look back and see brave young men answering the call to arms.

    I looked at about a dozen Confederate memorials online today, and all of them honored bravery in the face of war. Not a single one of them depicted a plantation owner flogging a slave with the inscription "Keep blackie down".

    So if the most you can take from the South, after over a century, is that the Southern politician institutionalized slavery, and fuck the poor bastard caught up in it, then that's short sightedness on your part and I'm glad is, at best, past that petty shit and, at worst, realizes that he can put a wreath at the site and just side step a stupid argument.

    QlBGc.jpg
  • HozHoz Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    What does the law have to do with public opinion? Why are you even talking about the court of law, what they were or weren't convicted of is not relevant to what they actually were.

    They were traitors, by the way.

  • RustRust __BANNED USERS
    edited May 2009
    The only people who tend to still be upset about the Civil War is Northerners. Southerners don't look back on the Civil War and think about Slavery. They look back and see brave young men answering the call to arms.

    Probably because they lost! That might have something to do with it.

    Are you from the South, Sheep?

  • EvanderEvander Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Hoz wrote: »
    What does the law have to do with public opinion? Why are you even talking about the court of law, what they were or weren't convicted of is not relevant to what they actually were.

    They were traitors, by the way.

    In regards to official visits and actions from the president, I think the law and convictions ARE relevant.

    georgersig.jpg
  • KageraKagera Imitating the worst people. Since 2004Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Sheep what you just said does not take into account the massive amount of racial discrimination that happened afterward and continues to happen today in the South.

    The black people lynched and hung weren't hung by politicians.

    My neck, my back, my FUPA and my crack.
  • SheepSheep Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2009
    Rust wrote: »
    The only people who tend to still be upset about the Civil War is Northerners. Southerners don't look back on the Civil War and think about Slavery. They look back and see brave young men answering the call to arms.

    Probably because they lost! That might have something to do with it.

    Are you from the South, Sheep?

    It isn't obvious?

    I don't see how losing the war would have anything to do with how it's viewed. Fighting against "Northern Aggression" was a common theme in the South during the war.
    Sheep what you just said does not take into account the massive amount of racial discrimination that happened afterward and continues to happen today in the South.

    The black people lynched and hung weren't hung by politicians.

    I'm not exactly sure what you expect me to say about it.

    QlBGc.jpg
  • HozHoz Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    To Goodwin this thing again, that's like saying, "oh Hitler never got his day in court so he's not a mass murderer". It's pure babble. What's relevant is FACTS, not convictions.

  • YamiB.YamiB. Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Sheep wrote: »
    The only people who tend to still be upset about the Civil War is Northerners. Southerners don't look back on the Civil War and think about Slavery. They look back and see brave young men answering the call to arms.

    I looked at about a dozen Confederate memorials online today, and all of them honored bravery in the face of war. Not a single one of them depicted a plantation owner flogging a slave with the inscription "Keep blackie down".

    That's my main problem when this issue comes up. The historical revisionism by some Southerners to make their ancestors look better is disgusting. If Southerners really want to move past it they need to stop lying about slavery having nothing to do with the war and admit the sins of their ancestors.
    Evander wrote: »
    Hoz wrote: »
    What does the law have to do with public opinion? Why are you even talking about the court of law, what they were or weren't convicted of is not relevant to what they actually were.

    They were traitors, by the way.

    In regards to official visits and actions from the president, I think the law and convictions ARE relevant.

    I disagree, I think that the president should be able to evaluate a situation from the relevant evidence and form reactions to it like any other citizen would. The official ruling of guilt or innocence should only factor into punishment they are given through the legal system.

    The president should look at the evidence and arrive at a conclusion about those fighting for the Confederacy, I believe the correct view is that they were traitors. What would be wrong is if he decided they were traitors and then had land and such that was handed down from those guilty of treason confiscated.

  • ScalfinScalfin __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2009
    Sheep wrote: »
    Rust wrote: »
    The only people who tend to still be upset about the Civil War is Northerners. Southerners don't look back on the Civil War and think about Slavery. They look back and see brave young men answering the call to arms.

    Probably because they lost! That might have something to do with it.

    Are you from the South, Sheep?

    It isn't obvious?

    I don't see how losing the war would have anything to do with how it's viewed.

    Let me put it this way: When military graduates go to Masada for the graduation ceremony, they don't intone "let's do that again."

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    The rest of you, I fucking hate you for the fact that I now have a blue dot on this god awful thread.
  • EvanderEvander Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    YamiB. wrote: »
    Evander wrote: »
    Hoz wrote: »
    What does the law have to do with public opinion? Why are you even talking about the court of law, what they were or weren't convicted of is not relevant to what they actually were.

    They were traitors, by the way.

    In regards to official visits and actions from the president, I think the law and convictions ARE relevant.

    I disagree, I think that the president should be able to evaluate a situation from the relevant evidence and form reactions to it like any other citizen would. The official ruling of guilt or innocence should only factor into punishment they are given through the legal system.

    The president should look at the evidence and arrive at a conclusion about those fighting for the Confederacy, I believe the correct view is that they were traitors. What would be wrong is if he decided they were traitors and then had land and such that was handed down from those guilty of treason confiscated.

    So you believe that the president should be able to reevaluate things, but ONLY if the president ends up agreeing with you?

    I haven't seen anything saying that Obama did this against his will, you know.

    georgersig.jpg
  • RoyceSraphimRoyceSraphim Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    I suppose this whole discussion is boiling down to whether you would pray for your enemy, place flowers at their grave and wish better things for them and their families.

    Even after they had tried to take their life and you have burned their cities in action against their rebellion.

    Yes it was illegal, yes it was traitorous, yes it supported an immoral practice against my ancestors, but laying the wreath says no hard feelings, whats done is done.

    I am sorry we can't convince yall of this but at some point you have to let it go and pray for them and honor their deaths with the deaths of soldiers today.

  • EvanderEvander Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Scalfin wrote: »
    Sheep wrote: »
    Rust wrote: »
    The only people who tend to still be upset about the Civil War is Northerners. Southerners don't look back on the Civil War and think about Slavery. They look back and see brave young men answering the call to arms.

    Probably because they lost! That might have something to do with it.

    Are you from the South, Sheep?

    It isn't obvious?

    I don't see how losing the war would have anything to do with how it's viewed.

    Let me put it this way: When military graduates go to Masada for the graduation ceremony, they don't intone "let's do that again."

    They at least USED TO intone "Masada will not fall again."

    Which is great and motivational, and also ENTIRELY ignorant of the fact that what teh Zealots did by murdering their wives and children was horrible.



    Masada is interesting historically and geographically, but people who derive some sense of pride from it are doing it wrong.

    georgersig.jpg
  • YamiB.YamiB. Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Evander wrote: »
    YamiB. wrote: »
    Evander wrote: »
    Hoz wrote: »
    What does the law have to do with public opinion? Why are you even talking about the court of law, what they were or weren't convicted of is not relevant to what they actually were.

    They were traitors, by the way.

    In regards to official visits and actions from the president, I think the law and convictions ARE relevant.

    I disagree, I think that the president should be able to evaluate a situation from the relevant evidence and form reactions to it like any other citizen would. The official ruling of guilt or innocence should only factor into punishment they are given through the legal system.

    The president should look at the evidence and arrive at a conclusion about those fighting for the Confederacy, I believe the correct view is that they were traitors. What would be wrong is if he decided they were traitors and then had land and such that was handed down from those guilty of treason confiscated.

    So you believe that the president should be able to reevaluate things, but ONLY if the president ends up agreeing with you?

    I haven't seen anything saying that Obama did this against his will, you know.

    No, that is not what I said. You said that for visits the President makes should take into consideration convictions of a crime. I said that a president should be able to evaluate a situation based on the evidence and disregard what the courts found.

    In this particular case I think the correct position is that the Confederate were traitors. If Obama evaluated the situation and decided that he thought they were not traitors, I wouldn't say that he should haven't been able to in the first place, I would just think he was wrong. There could also be the situation that he considered the Confederates to be traitors and decided to do the wreath thing anyway.

  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Sheep wrote: »
    The only people who tend to still be upset about the Civil War is Northerners. Southerners don't look back on the Civil War and think about Slavery. They look back and see brave young men answering the call to arms.

    Well of course they do; it would be rather depressing to think back and say, man, my grandfather fought for slavery. And as far as people living in the shadow of the civil war, I will just point out that people in the north aren't putting the Union symbols on their pickups (or priuses if you like), or flying union flags over their statehouses. The north doesn't have Union-based organizations demanding the civil war be called "a patriotic call to arms." The state I live in didn't exist at the time of the civil war, but from where I'm sitting the north seems to be far more "over it" than the south is.
    I looked at about a dozen Confederate memorials online today, and all of them honored bravery in the face of war. Not a single one of them depicted a plantation owner flogging a slave with the inscription "Keep blackie down".

    Right, they just have inscriptions implying that the south, having seceded so that they could keep their slaves, was actually fighting on the side of patriotic freedom. Or did you ignore those on the next 11 monuments you looked at, too?
    So if the most you can take from the South, after over a century, is that the Southern politician institutionalized slavery, and fuck the poor bastard caught up in it, then that's short sightedness on your part and I'm glad is, at best, past that petty shit and, at worst, realizes that he can put a wreath at the site and just side step a stupid argument.

    I don't want us to have to side step it because a bunch of southerners are uncomfortable being told the war was about slavery.

    gkcmatch_zps97480250.jpg
    stand up! It was the smallest on the list but
    pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
  • RustRust __BANNED USERS
    edited May 2009
    I suppose this whole discussion is boiling down to whether you would pray for your enemy, place flowers at their grave and wish better things for them and their families.

    Even after they had tried to take their life and you have burned their cities in action against their rebellion.

    Yes it was illegal, yes it was traitorous, yes it supported an immoral practice against my ancestors, but laying the wreath says no hard feelings, whats done is done.

    I am sorry we can't convince yall of this but at some point you have to let it go and pray for them and honor their deaths with the deaths of soldiers today.

    Yeah, fuck that. You're entitled to your Saturday morning special morality, though!

  • ScalfinScalfin __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2009
    Evander wrote: »
    Scalfin wrote: »
    Sheep wrote: »
    Rust wrote: »
    The only people who tend to still be upset about the Civil War is Northerners. Southerners don't look back on the Civil War and think about Slavery. They look back and see brave young men answering the call to arms.

    Probably because they lost! That might have something to do with it.

    Are you from the South, Sheep?

    It isn't obvious?

    I don't see how losing the war would have anything to do with how it's viewed.

    Let me put it this way: When military graduates go to Masada for the graduation ceremony, they don't intone "let's do that again."

    They at least USED TO intone "Masada will not fall again."

    Which is great and motivational, and also ENTIRELY ignorant of the fact that what teh Zealots did by murdering their wives and children was horrible.



    Masada is interesting historically and geographically, but people who derive some sense of pride from it are doing it wrong.

    From what I've heard it's just "never again."

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    The rest of you, I fucking hate you for the fact that I now have a blue dot on this god awful thread.
  • IncenjucarIncenjucar QA Tester -> Game Producer Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited May 2009
    As a general rule, if you do not intend to forgive your enemies, you need to obliterate them.

    freefallagentad_zps635a83ed.png
  • PantsBPantsB Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    As a general rule, if you do not intend to forgive your enemies, you need to obliterate them.

    There's a difference between forgiving someone for past actions and celebrating them

    11793-1.png
    Spoiler:
  • IncenjucarIncenjucar QA Tester -> Game Producer Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited May 2009
    PantsB wrote: »
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    As a general rule, if you do not intend to forgive your enemies, you need to obliterate them.

    There's a difference between forgiving someone for past actions and celebrating them

    There's a difference between honoring a warrior and celebrating their war.

    freefallagentad_zps635a83ed.png
  • RoyceSraphimRoyceSraphim Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    PantsB wrote: »
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    As a general rule, if you do not intend to forgive your enemies, you need to obliterate them.

    There's a difference between forgiving someone for past actions and celebrating them

    There's a difference between honoring a warrior and celebrating their war.

  • CervetusCervetus Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    It would seem to me that the Confederate soldiers were about as American as the Minutemen were British. If you want to honor or respect them fine, but it doesn't really belong in a ceremony for US soldiers.

    The libertarian response to anything is, "Sure, that works fine in practice, but it doesn't fly in theory."
  • IncenjucarIncenjucar QA Tester -> Game Producer Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Cervetus wrote: »
    It would seem to me that the Confederate soldiers were about as American as the Minutemen were British. If you want to honor or respect them fine, but it doesn't really belong in a ceremony for US soldiers.

    That's very nice and all but it's shitty diplomacy.

    freefallagentad_zps635a83ed.png
  • CervetusCervetus Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    Cervetus wrote: »
    It would seem to me that the Confederate soldiers were about as American as the Minutemen were British. If you want to honor or respect them fine, but it doesn't really belong in a ceremony for US soldiers.

    That's very nice and all but it's shitty diplomacy.

    Probably. I was just covering the "reality" portion of the argument.

    The libertarian response to anything is, "Sure, that works fine in practice, but it doesn't fly in theory."
  • IncenjucarIncenjucar QA Tester -> Game Producer Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Cervetus wrote: »

    Probably. I was just covering the "reality" portion of the argument.

    Justice and "right" are a dangerous concepts, I'm afraid.

    Sometimes you need to focus on what actually helps make the lives of human beings better instead of just what gets your righteousness rocks off.

    freefallagentad_zps635a83ed.png
  • CervetusCervetus Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    Cervetus wrote: »

    Probably. I was just covering the "reality" portion of the argument.

    Justice and "right" are a dangerous concepts, I'm afraid.

    Sometimes you need to focus on what actually helps make the lives of human beings better instead of just what gets your righteousness rocks off.

    Okay, so my arguments were entirely academic.

    The libertarian response to anything is, "Sure, that works fine in practice, but it doesn't fly in theory."
  • EvanderEvander Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    Cervetus wrote: »

    Probably. I was just covering the "reality" portion of the argument.

    Justice and "right" are a dangerous concepts, I'm afraid.

    Sometimes you need to focus on what actually helps make the lives of human beings better instead of just what gets your righteousness rocks off.

    Absolutely.

    Pedantry may save lives at the operating table, but not at the peace table.

    georgersig.jpg
  • Dunadan019Dunadan019 Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Hoz wrote: »
    What does the law have to do with public opinion? Why are you even talking about the court of law, what they were or weren't convicted of is not relevant to what they actually were.

    They were traitors, by the way.

    i can prove that they were soldiers and i can prove that they were absolved of all forms of treason. why don't you prove to me that they weren't.
    To Goodwin this thing again, that's like saying, "oh Hitler never got his day in court so he's not a mass murderer". It's pure babble. What's relevant is FACTS, not convictions.

    foreign leaders of foreign countries do not enjoy the right of being innocent until proven guilty in the eyes of the american justice system.

  • ScalfinScalfin __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2009
    Dunadan019 wrote: »
    Hoz wrote: »
    What does the law have to do with public opinion? Why are you even talking about the court of law, what they were or weren't convicted of is not relevant to what they actually were.

    They were traitors, by the way.

    i can prove that they were soldiers and i can prove that they were absolved of all forms of treason. why don't you prove to me that they weren't.
    To Goodwin this thing again, that's like saying, "oh Hitler never got his day in court so he's not a mass murderer". It's pure babble. What's relevant is FACTS, not convictions.

    foreign leaders of foreign countries do not enjoy the right of being innocent until proven guilty in the eyes of the american justice system.

    History books aren't part of the justice system.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    The rest of you, I fucking hate you for the fact that I now have a blue dot on this god awful thread.
  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    Cervetus wrote: »

    Probably. I was just covering the "reality" portion of the argument.

    Justice and "right" are a dangerous concepts, I'm afraid.

    Sometimes you need to focus on what actually helps make the lives of human beings better instead of just what gets your righteousness rocks off.

    How is it "making the lives of humans better" to look at people who claim the civil war wasn't about slavery and was instead "a patriotic call to arms," and just tell them okay, fine, have a pat on the head?

    Forgiveness is fine. I'm less willing to reward people perpetuating the idea that the south was somehow in the right.

    gkcmatch_zps97480250.jpg
    stand up! It was the smallest on the list but
    pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Dunadan019 wrote: »
    Hoz wrote: »
    What does the law have to do with public opinion? Why are you even talking about the court of law, what they were or weren't convicted of is not relevant to what they actually were.

    They were traitors, by the way.

    i can prove that they were soldiers and i can prove that they were absolved of all forms of treason. why don't you prove to me that they weren't.
    To Goodwin this thing again, that's like saying, "oh Hitler never got his day in court so he's not a mass murderer". It's pure babble. What's relevant is FACTS, not convictions.

    foreign leaders of foreign countries do not enjoy the right of being innocent until proven guilty in the eyes of the american justice system.

    The law is not a perfect indicator of everything that is right, just, or even factual, and often throughout history has not been. The fact that a person was acquitted (or absolved, for that matter) of a crime does not mean they did not commit the act that led to the prosecution.

    gkcmatch_zps97480250.jpg
    stand up! It was the smallest on the list but
    pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
  • Dunadan019Dunadan019 Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Scalfin wrote: »
    Dunadan019 wrote: »
    Hoz wrote: »
    What does the law have to do with public opinion? Why are you even talking about the court of law, what they were or weren't convicted of is not relevant to what they actually were.

    They were traitors, by the way.

    i can prove that they were soldiers and i can prove that they were absolved of all forms of treason. why don't you prove to me that they weren't.
    To Goodwin this thing again, that's like saying, "oh Hitler never got his day in court so he's not a mass murderer". It's pure babble. What's relevant is FACTS, not convictions.

    foreign leaders of foreign countries do not enjoy the right of being innocent until proven guilty in the eyes of the american justice system.

    History books aren't part of the justice system.

    and?

  • IncenjucarIncenjucar QA Tester -> Game Producer Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Dyscord wrote: »
    How is it "making the lives of humans better" to look at people who claim the civil war wasn't about slavery and was instead "a patriotic call to arms," and just tell them okay, fine, have a pat on the head?

    Forgiveness is fine. I'm less willing to reward people perpetuating the idea that the south was somehow in the right.

    I take it you haven't studied conquest much...?

    When you claim dominion over a population you need to either befriend them, integrate them, or destroy them or they will fuck with you until the end of time.

    And nobody is saying they were in the right.

    freefallagentad_zps635a83ed.png
  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    And nobody is saying they were in the right.

    Except for the people whose monument the wreath is being laid at, of course.

    gkcmatch_zps97480250.jpg
    stand up! It was the smallest on the list but
    pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
  • ScalfinScalfin __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2009
    Dunadan019 wrote: »
    Scalfin wrote: »
    Dunadan019 wrote: »
    Hoz wrote: »
    What does the law have to do with public opinion? Why are you even talking about the court of law, what they were or weren't convicted of is not relevant to what they actually were.

    They were traitors, by the way.

    i can prove that they were soldiers and i can prove that they were absolved of all forms of treason. why don't you prove to me that they weren't.
    To Goodwin this thing again, that's like saying, "oh Hitler never got his day in court so he's not a mass murderer". It's pure babble. What's relevant is FACTS, not convictions.

    foreign leaders of foreign countries do not enjoy the right of being innocent until proven guilty in the eyes of the american justice system.

    History books aren't part of the justice system.

    and?

    And that means they are not held by the decisions of the legal system, and so can prove it themselves based upon archival information.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    The rest of you, I fucking hate you for the fact that I now have a blue dot on this god awful thread.
  • IncenjucarIncenjucar QA Tester -> Game Producer Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Dyscord wrote: »
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    And nobody is saying they were in the right.

    Except for the people whose monument the wreath is being laid at, of course.

    Then how the hell did Obama get to it without being shot or asked to leave?

    From what I can see the people who erected it are DEFENDING A MYTH, not what actually happened.

    freefallagentad_zps635a83ed.png
  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    seriously?

    gkcmatch_zps97480250.jpg
    stand up! It was the smallest on the list but
    pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
  • Dunadan019Dunadan019 Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Dyscord wrote: »
    Dunadan019 wrote: »
    Hoz wrote: »
    What does the law have to do with public opinion? Why are you even talking about the court of law, what they were or weren't convicted of is not relevant to what they actually were.

    They were traitors, by the way.

    i can prove that they were soldiers and i can prove that they were absolved of all forms of treason. why don't you prove to me that they weren't.
    To Goodwin this thing again, that's like saying, "oh Hitler never got his day in court so he's not a mass murderer". It's pure babble. What's relevant is FACTS, not convictions.

    foreign leaders of foreign countries do not enjoy the right of being innocent until proven guilty in the eyes of the american justice system.

    The law is not a perfect indicator of everything that is right, just, or even factual, and often throughout history has not been. The fact that a person was acquitted of a crime does not mean they did not commit the act that led to the prosecution.

    nothing is a perfect indicator of everything that is right just or factual. at least in this case, we know that a much greater man than any of us saw the need to forgive these soldiers for what they did realizing that they were not all traitors to be hung. they were soldiers of the united states of america and deserve to be honored as such.

    you honestly believe that for some reason the devil really did go down to georgia and made every man older than 18 in the south evil? i don't think so.

  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    I didn't say that, did I?

    gkcmatch_zps97480250.jpg
    stand up! It was the smallest on the list but
    pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
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