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grand central orikae - Astro Zombies finished, p 8

124

Posts

  • streeverstreever Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Crawdaddio is posting good stuff.

    I didn't get into the visual stuff much because it sounds like you have a client who is dictating some of that--I try to avoid that as much as possible in my work. I try to stress that I'm the one who has done this for 9 years, and things that seem right to them, may not work well on the web. I also point out that people seem to like sites LOOKS that they will never use, and never spend money on.

    I try to get my clients to identify sites that they actually use, and what they like/dislike about them, and I find that makes the design process less "he said/she said".

    That's a future tip for dealing with clients/project management :)

    But, I definitely agree with a lot of the design crit from crawdaddio--I'd revisit some of that. I really agree that textural backgrounds aren't typically a good effect: they have technical limitations (increased file size, lack of flexibility) and visually, they bring to mind things which aren't the web at all. I love print/off-web media more than anything, I woodblock print in my spare time, but it doesn't work so well on the web.

    And you can't go wrong with readable type. That will always be in fashion, even if you look at it as a designer and go, "that's too big".

  • streeverstreever Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    oh, and validate your code, if you aren't already, with the w3c--worldwideweb consortium--site.

    And, the favelet I mean, is "Computed Cascaded Styles".

    I think you have a few more ems than you realize--I don't remember the default, because I specify every unit everytime (even 0, simply by habit)--I wonder if you didn't specify a few sizes, & it inherited the em designation from an ancestor?

    Again, I don't actually know that it works that way--I can't recall because I never leave a unit unspecified, so it's not relevant to me, but that's something to check!

    best luck

  • OrikaeshigitaeOrikaeshigitae Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited June 2009
    so i'm doing another painting! basically i'm doing this in 24 hours, because I want to get this done for a show on Saturday.

    SO

    *initial drawing phase* (i can't figure out how to get these pictures onto my computer*

    colour blocks and gradual refinement!
    Spoiler:

    Going for a Pulp Stories Magazine type of feel. It's for the Sci-Fi Show (that is its name) so I wanted to do something as genre-riffic as possible.

    I also wanted to do a punk reference, since all my zombie-related paintings so far have had punk references and I think it'd be a funny schtick to keep going.

  • ManonvonSuperockManonvonSuperock Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    i'm disappointed that you're not a bald, moustache-twirling 1920s weightlifter....

    unless you never had that avatar and i'm thinking of someone else

    in which case i'm still disappointed.

  • OrikaeshigitaeOrikaeshigitae Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited June 2009
    that was my av!and it is my dream to someday be that weightlifter

    preferably when i'm like 50

  • ManonvonSuperockManonvonSuperock Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    bring it back. it makes me like you more. and the generic, shallow appreciation of anonymous internet nerds should be your reason for all your life decisions.

  • earthwormadamearthwormadam Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Painting looks good so far, and I like that you kept the composition of the original movie as well.

    sig2.jpg
  • DeeLockDeeLock Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
  • OrikaeshigitaeOrikaeshigitae Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited June 2009
    holy fuck, that is awesome.

    I actually have an entire book of pulp covers, and it's the best thing I own. I'm using a Captain Future cover for the ref.

    I didn't even realize there was a film until you mentioned it! This is a Misfits reference!

  • OrikaeshigitaeOrikaeshigitae Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited June 2009
    I am thoroughly amazed with Photoshop's lens correction feature. This should be distortion-free, and have accurate colours (at least on my monitor.)

    I'm about to start adding in details - any pose crits before I go too far?

    zombieslenscorrected_smaller_levels.jpg

  • MustangMustang Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Hang on, do you want God to crit you or us? Cause God just left like 2 minutes ago, something about getting milk and pornography, I tend not to ask, y'know mysterious ways and all that.

    EDIT: Okay, the forms and edges are really messy, it's hard to make out what's going on.
    Also I'm not sure on what is happening here, is he offering his virgin bride as a sacrafice to Astro Zombie? Also what is that white blob behind him? It looks like some kind of one legged ostrich is trying to pick pocket him. Also why do my fingers insist on typing "behing" instead of "behind"?

  • OrikaeshigitaeOrikaeshigitae Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited June 2009
    who do i have to kill to get a crit around here

    wootcropped.jpg

  • MustangMustang Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    I edited after the fact, with crits, for you, because I love you.

  • ManonvonSuperockManonvonSuperock Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Mustang - because of the muscle memory from the much more common "-ing," I would assume.

    Orik, I love the old pulp stuff. What yours is lacking is a dynamic layout and title text. Both aspects of this painting are very plain. ...it's like you made the jambalya without peppers. It has everything else that's needed... aliens, damsel in distress, etc. It just doesn't have what gives it impact.

    I would try more dynamic placement and poses for your characters, as well as interaction of light, and use the spotlight from the UFO to do much more. I would also cheese-up that title text, giving it some oomph.

  • OrikaeshigitaeOrikaeshigitae Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited June 2009
    well, it's going to have "Their Mission - EXTERMINATE the HUMAN RACE!' at the bottom, which is why it's kinda empty compositionally right now. I'm just doing all the details first, because it's annoying to paint between letters.

    Here's the composition I jacked from Captain Future. I wanted the poses to be authentic, so I grabbed them from an old pulp cover. (and, I admit I thought it'd be funny to switch the hero/villain int he composition.) Could you elaborate on your crits?

    Anyway. I'm still working on cleaning up the forms and such, particularly the rocky outcroppings that make up the background, which should give the picture a little more visual interest. Hopefully that's what you mean by interaction of light, Manon. I'll post it as soon as it's done.

    I have to finish this painting by tomorrow, so.. updates as events warrant, i suppose.

    e:oh, and the ostrich is his jetpack.

  • ManonvonSuperockManonvonSuperock Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    I saw your reference, try making the figure on the right larger, and more threatening. Your reference also has a strong diagonal from the dude's helmet through the edge of the red circle and across the tops of the aliens' heads. also, in the reference there is personality to the way each character is standing, and yours are more like posed dolls, if that makes any more sense. Even without the faces on the Captain Future cover, I can tell that the man is a threat, and that the aliens are scared. In yours I see no threat or fear. I just see dudes standing there.

    Also, notice the strong shapes in the title of Captain Future and Man of Tomorrow. Yours is just a rectangle of very basic letters.

    As for the additional caption, what it says is nowhere near as important as how you present it. Make sure that it is exciting visually, not because of the meaning of the words in the sentence.

  • Angel_of_BaconAngel_of_Bacon Super Moderator, Moderator mod
    edited June 2009
    Like Mustang, I was pretty confused as to what was going on...I think it's "normal dude protecting passed out girl from astro zombie", but it could also read as "astro zombie human sacrifice" or just, "2 astro zombies getting up to what astro zombies get up to".

    Assuming it's actually option A, some suggestions:
    -normal dude's pose could be changed to emphasize more the idea of protecting her- his torso bent away from zombie, leaning back, putting distance between himself and the attacker.
    -zombie could stand to be made more menacing- either bigger in actual size, bigger in compositional size by bringing him closer in perspective, a more dynamic pose, or both.
    -Using the composition more to emphasize the peril of the situation- sketch below to show normal dude smaller, zombie bigger so he feels more threatened, more closed in upon.

    orik_astro.jpg


    The use of extreme perspective here might be a little bit much for the cheesy 40's style (rather than cheesy 60's-70's) you're going for, but the same principles could still be applied more subtly and get a similar effect.

    EDIT: That Captain Future poster is hysterical because it's totally less "alien menace" than "uh oh, Dad caught us, we are sooo busted."

  • OrikaeshigitaeOrikaeshigitae Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited June 2009
    I wish that I worked digitally. It'd be a lot easier to scrap everything and start again. :/

    I had intended for the cover to be ambiguous - one of the things that I'm trying to play with is the obvious power relationships in pulp covers, and.. well, it's not really working in any case. I think I'll make the zombie taller.. or.. something. Christ, I'm tired.

    Thanks for the crits, guys. They're awesome.

  • Stupid Mr Whoopsie NameStupid Mr Whoopsie Name Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited June 2009
    Knowing a complete compositional change is not an option, I would say what you have definitely evokes the pulp comic feel you are after. Right now, I think the one of the things really hurting it are the the loose, semi-undefined edges. The Ostrich jetpack, for starters. And the girls arm seems to stretch/droop really far down (or that could just be a product of the undefined edges).

    Like I said before, it definitely has the pulp feel and I think to push that even further, you should redo the "Astro Zombies" logo with more of a "in dynamic space" feel to it. Make the right side of the title stretch back into space, or something like that. I think that would help break up some of the static nature of how the figures are placed without resorting to a full on repaint.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • KendeathwalkerKendeathwalker Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    .. are you trying to paint this completely out of your head?

    ..Get some one to pose for you and take a picture.


    You''ve really bitten off a bit more than you can chew here. Im not trying to be a dick but your still at the stage where rendering simple shapes like spheres/cubes/cones/ columns should be what you are working on.

    Continuing this painting is really going to be an exercise in frustration for you as you dont have the tools yet.


    I know this doesnt help you with your current painting, others have already offered great critiques specific to it.

  • OrikaeshigitaeOrikaeshigitae Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited June 2009
    i think i'm pretty much done with the zombie. and the background. on to the man and woman.

    DSCN5227cropped.jpg

    What makes you say that, Ken?

  • Stupid Mr Whoopsie NameStupid Mr Whoopsie Name Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited June 2009
    That reads a lot better now, O!

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • OrikaeshigitaeOrikaeshigitae Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited June 2009
    Thanks, E! It's coming a lot easier now. I feel like the majority of the work is past.

  • LoomdunLoomdun Registered User
    edited June 2009
    Well I think ken sais that is because a lot of things still contain a flatness to it, a egyption like flatness to them. While its great that you understand the basics of drawing a figure, I think I also agree on ken that it would be best to take a step back and begin practicing with simple form again rather then leaping to a direct painting.

    you were having a lot of trouble doing those figures with pencil drawings that I did a quick draw-over on to (which also contained flatness), I think possibly you might be jumping the gun and it would benefit you more in the long wrong to try to figure out why that's happening rather then trying to make these pieces. Because generally there pointing exactly to that issue of being flat, lacking movement, being stiff.

    splat
  • OrikaeshigitaeOrikaeshigitae Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited June 2009
    It seems to me that the way to get better at figure drawing would be to draw figures.

    I don't know. I think a lot of your problems are from the source material I'm using. Do you have the same troubles with this painting, which was reffed from people instead of an illustration?

  • LoomdunLoomdun Registered User
    edited June 2009
    Even that painting does, its a yes and no thing, like I said its great that you can understand what your drawing but it really does get muddied, even in that one. And while the things on top give a mild hint of rolling back, Over all it does give that same feeling of over-all flatness. It might have to do with composition to but the figures really could of been thought out in where there placed more.

    What it feels like is you go directly to the painting and spend like 20 hours or however much you spend on it without thinking of how it will be layed out before hand, and then mold it into something thats on the go.

    I don't think the problem is you don't know what your doing, but I think the main problem is your jumping to fast, even in the drawings of your comic design. The signs are fairly obvious that you know the figure. Its just that everything feels rushed, measurement is completely skipped and the stage of shading and detailing seems to be the only thing that has attention being payed to.

    splat
  • OrikaeshigitaeOrikaeshigitae Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited June 2009
    I.. alright. I don't know what you're talking about with regards to flatness, Loom, I'm sorry. I'm trying not to be obtuse, but I honestly don't know what you're talking about. It's probably a language issue. With every painting I do, I do compositional sketches and thumbnails both in my sketchbook and in my imprimatura.

    Maybe I'm doing something wrong, for you to make these comments. But it's not a lack of planning.

  • LoomdunLoomdun Registered User
    edited June 2009
    Oh god, my words have failed me again. Run awayyyy

    splat
  • OrikaeshigitaeOrikaeshigitae Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited June 2009
    Sorry, Loom. :( I appreciate you trying.

  • MustangMustang Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    I think what Loom was trying to say is that he thinks you're rushing. I can't really say, it seems like a lot of people using paint seem to suffer from muddy pictures. I can't really criticise you on it though, because I don't paint and therefore don't understand it. But certainly the forms and structures don't seem well defined, sloppy might be a better word for it.

    As I said, it's really hard for me to say where you're going wrong because I don't use the medium. Don't discount Loom though, he's pretty good with paint.

  • OrikaeshigitaeOrikaeshigitae Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited June 2009
    I don't doubt that he knows what he's doing. It's just tough to work on something when people say "here's your problem! I don't know why it's happening or how, hope this helps!"

    I want to work on these things, and I'm trying to - that's why I keep doing things like this.

  • LoomdunLoomdun Registered User
    edited June 2009
    I think the muddy-ness comes from being a thin layer of paint, your paintings are very thin right? How often do you wipe away stuff

    splat
  • OrikaeshigitaeOrikaeshigitae Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited June 2009
    not very often? they start out very thin and get thicker, if you don't do that then they crack

    i do tend to paint thinly though

  • LoomdunLoomdun Registered User
    edited June 2009
    Yah, generally you can start a painting by wiping out the values beforehand by starting ot off thin, theres something I havn't really thought of. Do you paint the colors into the values? Or do you work out the values beforehand.

    splat
  • OrikaeshigitaeOrikaeshigitae Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited June 2009
    i usually start with a red/orange or blue wash (depending on whether the dominant colour is going to be warm or cool) and then sketch the lines/values in with a slightly darker wash

    then i block the colours in, then i start refining them

  • LoomdunLoomdun Registered User
    edited June 2009
    I would be the worst professor in the world

    splat
  • srsizzysrsizzy Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Man, I might be rough on you here, but it seems like people aren't coming across very well. A lot of people have already said these things.

    Your colors are muddy. I don't know what kind of paint this is, I've only used acrylic and oil. But as it stands, this is very basic shading, because all your shading is in big swaths and blocks. This is what you'd put down before you start going into detail. It seems like the paint and/or brushes you're using are too thick and wet to even do detail with. There are no sharp edges, everything is blurry and scribbly.

    Your figures aren't well fleshed out. You said that you do a mock-up sketch beforehand. Well, that doesn't help with the paint/shading problems, and you should have offered that up for crits on anatomy and form. Honestly, I'm too intimidated to paint because I'm a perfectionist and I know I'm not ready. It's great you're running headlong into it, but I don't know how much good it'll do until you really have the practiced tools of drawing people/shapes well. Bacon's example shows how little depth you have in the picture, which makes it boring to look at, and depth in itself is one tool that takes a long time to master in drawing.

    Painting is more of a practice in color, shading, and texture. It is not going to help you learn to draw people better, and it is not going to help with the drawing fundamentals. That is why basic drawing generally comes before painting in school.

    So what people are saying is mostly:
    1. Work on drawing forms
    2. Work on shading forms
    3. Work on depth/perspective
    4. Draw from life a lot more
    5. ... many other steps involving color and more practice
    6. Do painting later because you aren't going to learn as much when pictures take you this long and you're not ready to be practicing the techniques that come with painting

    Not that I'm not being a hypocrite, because what I do is avoid learning the fundamentals by finding ways to draw things that don't require them but still end up looking cool. If I were painting, I'd be doing really abstract things/figures without applying most drawing techniques and just focusing on color and shape.

    BRO LET ME GET REAL WITH YOU AND SAY THAT MY FINGERS ARE PREPPED AND HOT LIKE THE SURFACE OF THE SUN TO BRING RADICAL BEATS SO SMOOTH THE SHIT WILL BE MEDICINAL-GRADE TRIPNASTY MAKING ALL BRAINWAVES ROLL ON THE SURFACE OF A BALLS-FEISTY NEURAL RAINBOW CRACKA-LACKIN' YOUR PERCEPTION OF THE HERE-NOW SPACE-TIME SITUATION THAT ALL OF LIFE BE JAMMED UP IN THROUGH THE UNIVERSAL FLOW BEATS
  • Angel_of_BaconAngel_of_Bacon Super Moderator, Moderator mod
    edited June 2009
    I don't doubt that he knows what he's doing. It's just tough to work on something when people say "here's your problem! I don't know why it's happening or how, hope this helps!"

    I want to work on these things, and I'm trying to - that's why I keep doing things like this.

    Hopefully I can explain this a bit better by just trying to demo it rather than trying to explain it entirely in words...not trying to just dogpile on you with everyone here.

    Did a paintover, tracing directly over top your zombie figure (took out the backpack though)...given, I have a big advantage working digitally, but I tried to follow a process that could be applied to a traditional working method. (Trying to approximate the working method I've seen some of my teachers use for their illustration work, but since I haven't actually taken a painting class here yet, I'm just kind of piecing it together...I think they paint a bit more directly than this in general though.

    The big thing is that essentially, all your painting problems are at heart drawing problems. Some may be complaining about muddiness, but really the killer is lack of clarity more than anything- if your drawing is solid on form, the major problem with clarity just become having the paintbrush dexterity to be able to stick with what you've got- esp. for the sort of cheesy retro pulp cover look. Usually not a virtuoso display of dazzling color mixing in most of those things.

    While slapping down a lot of color and then working over it over and over to a finish may work ok digitally (certainly what I've banked on for a long time, possibly for the worse)- or if you have a lot of time on your hands, and/or you're doing fine art- but trying to whip out precise work on a deadline is going to require some equally precise underpinnings.

    I might recommend switching from stretched canvas to masonite, so you can draw a tight piece in pencil and then wash over it with a light coat of paint. Similar to the process Gregory Manchess is using here:
    Spoiler:
    Now onto the actual thing I did:
    Spoiler:

    (Man this would have taken me so fucking long to actually do in real paint it is not even funny. 24 hours holy shit there would be no way seriously. You'd have to be hella pro to pull that shit off.)


    EDIT:
    who do i have to kill to get a crit around here
    I bet you are regretting this now!

  • LoomdunLoomdun Registered User
    edited June 2009
    omg, bacon, your my hero

    edit: on a side note, All the shadings that bacon was talking about is something that should be established in the underpainting, whether this be One single color or Black and white. Your black and white should look almost as good if not the same as your main drawing. I also have a example of this applied in actual traditional medium.

    The shading and values and fitting it all in is the most complicated part, if you start adding colors like how it seems you did yours fairly early without thought of shade then it will usually... Fall apart.

    Details should be avoided and general shades should be applied on first.

    fortunately I can at least show something rather then just ramble in gibberish
    Spoiler:

    and then I wiggle my fingers and make minor tweaks
    Spoiler:

    Depending how much color you want or how you apply the first layer, depending whether it is single color or Black and white, you will also have to decide how much or how little you want showing through

    edit oh wait I do have a color example to, one second. TIME TO GET MY CAMERA

    splat
  • ManonvonSuperockManonvonSuperock Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    That method of painting in grayscale and then applying color is flawed in that you are not composing with color as you paint, and are restricted to local boundaries and your linear structure once you start the paint-by-number process of coloring it in.

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