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Hell I don't really mind giving those in jail the right too, but I can certainly see why others might not.
Should we stop taxing them in the interim as well?
The odd thing about taking away their rights is that we talk about these rights being god-bestowed. But then we say that we can take them away. If there IS a god, and god gave these rights to people, then aren't we out of our element claiming the right to take them away? And if there is no god, then the implication is that these are rights that are inherent to all people, so again, isn't it wrong to take them away?
GT: batshido Hit me up on ME3.
Correctional Facilities aren't there to punish people but to segregate them from society and release them as reformed, more productive members who positively contribute to it.
Even if I were to grant you the vengeful punishment angle, what part of denying people their right to participatory government helps promote staying on the straight and narrow or deter recidivism?
I'd prefer not to vote in the UK elections. It just seems a little unfair that you can move somewhere and even raise a family there but have no rights concerning what goes on around you (politically speaking).
Well you do, they're just impotent and easily overlooked.
This seems to me to be a big problem with the American justice system, as, for the most part, it is seen as a punishment system rather than a rehabilitation system. Hence why people don't seem to care that people in prisons lose all their rights, "'cos it's part of their punishment" and so on and so forth.
I'm willing to agree that punishment plays some part in detterence and in the behavioral conditiong that is required to reform criminals.
That said, Americans are pretty apathetic about voting. Taking away the right to vote, as punishment, is kind of like punishing a child by taking away his broccoli.
And it's a really fucked up reason.
GT: batshido Hit me up on ME3.
Take it up with this fine lady.
Let 'em eat fucking pineapples!
What's interesting about this, is that with the sheer amount of prisoners (Well over 2M, and heading towards 1% of the adult population), and the sheer amount of minorities (Over 40% african americans), these votes could actually influence swing states to a significant degree.
I'm not sure voting rights ought to be denied even in prison. They are still citizens, and they are dependant on the state, so I feel they should have some say about what happens to the country, and to them. To take it after they've come out seems petty vindicitiveness, with which the american justice system is far too acquainted in general.
My other reason for believing these people should have the right the vote, is that once you start taking away some peoples right to vote because your subset of society judges theirs not worthy of it, you open up a can of worms. I mean, you have people voting whose only knowledge about the candidates is 30 second commercials, or the letter behind their names, or Fox news, or rumors / lies on the internet, or perhaps nothing at all. Yet they get to vote. You have people in almost every country voting directly against their economic interest, and they get to vote. In my own country, about 17% of the votes next election will go to a racist rightwing reactionary populist party, and they get to vote.
I believe that not only do we have the highest per capita, we have the highest period. The entire system is founded on politicians wanting to look 'tough on crime' and buoyed by the public being largely unsympathetic towards anyone they can slap a number of labels on (drug user/addict, minority, criminal, terrorist, sex offender, etc). Even if they avoid prison time, even nonviolent criminals are catastrophically impacted in seeking employment. By and large the public is not concerned with the intricacies of the justice system and therefore are apt to dismiss a possible hire once a criminal record is revealed, regardless of the nature of the offense or whether it would impact the person's ability to perform the job's duties. Now you have a group of already underprivileged people who are now even less able to find opportunities for work, and people wonder why the recidivism rate is out of control and the jails are overcrowded.
The fact that so many people are only familiar with her because of Colbert makes me both happy and sad.
Happy that AT LEAST they are familiar with her somehow, and sad that it took Colbert to get people to notice.
why would you yell at us?
I think that there really is a connection between the two, and it has to do with the fact that some people don't seem to view the rights of others as importantly as they view their own. (Unless those others live in a country that we are "liberating")
Even if DC was mostly white, I think you'd still have some Republicans opposing voting rights. They'd just be defeated.
I apologize if this is an incorrect interp, XoB.
DC is the most ridiculous city I've ever had the pleasure to visit.
1/4 of the place is absolutely beautful. Surrounded by 3/4s of complete chaos. No place quite like it on earth.
Anyways, let 'em vote. Let people out of jail vote. Let people in jail vote, but again I could go either way with that.
Check.
I think given how useless the votes of people in wyoming are most years that 65% or so turn out is pretty damn heroic.
And I really don't see how best to reduce apathy unless you want to add so many Rep's that the House starts to look like the Galactic Senate and becomes impossible to manage.
Did you not go past Chinatown?
There is TONS of beauty in the city. Yes, there are bad parts, but the good parts aren't ONLY on the Mall.
I said chaos, I didn't say it wasn't beautiful. I mean, it has this indescribable edge to it.
At most, you might be able to convince me that some felonies aren't worth losing your right to vote.
GT: batshido Hit me up on ME3.
So you are unhappy with our constitution, then?
Do you also believe that someone convicted of a DUI shouldn't lose his license?
sorry, I read the "1/4 beautiful, 3/4ths..." part, and filled int he blank myself.
DC is chaotic by design. The very layout of the streets is intended to foil invading armies.
Driving is a privilege you have to earn, through tests and such. Voting is an inherent right for any citizen of age.
Unless you want to institute tests to qualify for voting rights as well.
GT: batshido Hit me up on ME3.
Once you start taking that away, you're enforcing subjective limits on the democratic process. Imposing limits runs into electoral engineering pretty quickly.
GT: batshido Hit me up on ME3.
Ok. Is it better for society for felons to feel detached and impotent in their communities, or will they be more productive citizens and less likely to recidivate if they are allowed to take part in the democratic process?
Are you going to actually explain your belief or just continue to say it as though it were self evidently right?
Since I don't care what any of you think? If I did care, I wouldn't have posted in the first place.
How would you feel about a gun-haver license that was as in depth as our driver's license system, where it was also just as easy to lose the right to have a gun, just from being seen with it while drunk, etc.?
So if you aren't actually interested in debate and/or discourse...why are you posting at all?
That doesn't make any sense.
If you didn't care, you wouldn't have bothered telling us to begin with.
this was BotP'd, but I think it's an important question to be asking here.
Or having your voting rights revoked if you were spotted watching CNN with an open container.
GT: batshido Hit me up on ME3.
Driver's license is actually an interesting comparison here, because you DO have to register in order to vote.
At a bare minimum, murderers and rapists should have their right to vote stripped from them permanently. Pretty much any violent felony, really. And some nonviolent ones.