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Man, FUCK Messiah games.
Sorenson
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
I'm currently playing through the original campaign for Neverwinter Nights 2, and I'm diggin' it fairly well. The devs actually give you a lot of opprotunities to use a wide variety of skills and abilities to really great benifit as opposed to the "Oh, you're not maxing out Diplomacy? FUCK YOU." style that was far more prevelent in the original, the characters (a few of 'em, anyway) are interesting buggers to run around with, and just a bunch of other things that've generally tickled me.
Except that, outside of certain things that're tied into the OC like characters and whatnot, the OC is boring me to tears.
It's just so goddamn cheesy and overdone some of the shit they're throwing out there.
So let's talk about Messiah-ism and "chosen ones" in games. Let's talk about shitty deployments of the trope and those related to said trope, let's talk about aversions, and let's talk about devs who did use the Messiah thing but actually used it in a really interesting manner. Let's talk about the evil wizard getting his ass kicked not because he was overwhelmed by the ethereal screams of ten thousand ascended forefathers channelling through the flatulence of the farmboy whose great-great-grandmother looked particularly enticing to a horny celestial who'd popped into the material plane for a quick fuck, but because the mercenaries who strolled into town the other day had the sense to bullrush and curbstomp him before he could get any shit off. Let's talk about the dudes who get thrust into extrordinary situations and have to do their damndest to avoid getting killed, and manage to do so just because they HAD to. And let's talk about the people who kick ass not because they've got mystical power flowing out of every wanked orifice of their body, but just because they are that badass.
Given how broad this shit can get, when I say "Messiah-ism" and "chosen ones", I'm generally talking any of the following.
*Dudes who suddenly discover the have mystical bullshit powers because they are the latest and greatest of the once-mighty-but-now-extinct civilization/race of people
*Dudes who have unique powers that are central to the game's plot and existance that occur by no event actually involving the character in a reasonable timeframe of the game, and I mean unique as in "divinely-demonically-ethereally-bullshittily bestowed to the PC and no other" as opposed to "OH JESUS WHAT IS THIS VIRUS DOING TO ME-oh hey cool".
*In ANY WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM has some kind of seer character who talks about seeing and feeling the universe around them and how what they see and feel about the main character is abnormal. Seriously, fuck her.
*Anyone who's supposed to lead people to a glorious new age for reasons OTHER than knocking off the retarded dictator that's holding progress back (Though said knock-offs can be part of the bullshit reason).
Except that, outside of certain things that're tied into the OC like characters and whatnot, the OC is boring me to tears.
It's just so goddamn cheesy and overdone some of the shit they're throwing out there.
Ooooh, I'm the chosenone that everybody wants dead! Ooooh, here comee the ancient rituals and prophicies I have to fulfill! Ooooh, here comes the enigmatic enlightened outsider chick! Ooooh, here comes the forced character companion and the story sequence that tries to makeme give a shit about her annoying ass! BARF.
Epic storylines can be nice and all, but the thing is that a lot of developers (and modders, for that matter) seem to equate epic storylines with epic characters (granted, this is fuckin' D&D for example, but even Fred Every-Fighter can rise to glory without seers shittin' out one prophicy and bullshit cryptic message after another). Point a finger to a game or a mod, and there's even money the writer's going to throw in some special bullshit mumbo-jumbo about the main character (or a female NPC that they'll try to make a love interest with all of the grace of a fat drunken frat boy dressed as Cupid), and I'm fucking sick of it.So let's talk about Messiah-ism and "chosen ones" in games. Let's talk about shitty deployments of the trope and those related to said trope, let's talk about aversions, and let's talk about devs who did use the Messiah thing but actually used it in a really interesting manner. Let's talk about the evil wizard getting his ass kicked not because he was overwhelmed by the ethereal screams of ten thousand ascended forefathers channelling through the flatulence of the farmboy whose great-great-grandmother looked particularly enticing to a horny celestial who'd popped into the material plane for a quick fuck, but because the mercenaries who strolled into town the other day had the sense to bullrush and curbstomp him before he could get any shit off. Let's talk about the dudes who get thrust into extrordinary situations and have to do their damndest to avoid getting killed, and manage to do so just because they HAD to. And let's talk about the people who kick ass not because they've got mystical power flowing out of every wanked orifice of their body, but just because they are that badass.
Given how broad this shit can get, when I say "Messiah-ism" and "chosen ones", I'm generally talking any of the following.
*Dudes who suddenly discover the have mystical bullshit powers because they are the latest and greatest of the once-mighty-but-now-extinct civilization/race of people
*Dudes who have unique powers that are central to the game's plot and existance that occur by no event actually involving the character in a reasonable timeframe of the game, and I mean unique as in "divinely-demonically-ethereally-bullshittily bestowed to the PC and no other" as opposed to "OH JESUS WHAT IS THIS VIRUS DOING TO ME-oh hey cool".
*In ANY WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM has some kind of seer character who talks about seeing and feeling the universe around them and how what they see and feel about the main character is abnormal. Seriously, fuck her.
*Anyone who's supposed to lead people to a glorious new age for reasons OTHER than knocking off the retarded dictator that's holding progress back (Though said knock-offs can be part of the bullshit reason).
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Smashing vehicles, buildings, and robots because they just won't leave Hulk alone
I can't think of a single RPG made recently that used the "Chosen one" plot.
I never asked for this!
So that's part of the reason it's such an over-the-top Bioware plot line.
Of course, by the same author you have The Exile. Sure she's different and special, but in a bad way.
And the Nameless One, who was immortal and special but in a fucked up way.
Shepard was just a good soldier though, not space jesus.
However: The Last Remnant.
Games that put you in the role of the evil characters also come to mind as an interesting way to do things, e.g. dungeon keeper. Also, didn't one of the Wizardy games come in two halves? First half you play some evil wizard killing heroes. Second half you lead a band of heroes to kill the wizard.
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next time i write a crappy plotline, it will be because i was trying to write an obsidian game, as opposed to a typical me game.
i'll happily take credit for my own mediocre plots. i don't need to take credit for chris avellone phoning in one of his unless he wants to thank bioware for actually coming up with the concept of the nameless one in the first place.
on topic, every major bioware game except mass effect uses some version of the messiah complex, as do both kotor2 and nwn2.
Also it may not be an RPG, but one of my fav main characters in any game ive ever played is the guy from Condemened. Especially in the second one, when hes an alchoholic lowlife who gets the shakes when he tries to shoot if he doesnt down a couple mickies first. He was fantastic. Sure he was "special" in the second one, but he had some serious flaws and was kind of a dick.
I think you're punching over your weight class here
I'm pretty sure a "mickie" is like when you spike someone's drink with something (like date rape drugs or poison) not just a plain drink. I could be wrong though, I'm not always up to date on these weird expressions.
Also, condemned 2 was pretty cool but I didn't like the direction they went towards the end with all the super powers and crap.
Woah now, I wasn't saying anything against Bioware writing or games. But there very clearly is a difference in writing style between you guys and Obsidian, and I certainly wouldn't find it surprising that if you did an Obsidian style game it wouldn't be as good as Obsidian doing an Obsidian style game. Maybe it's drastically different in writing, but when I'm composing in styles that I'm not too conversant in it tends to be at best mediocre, more or less depending on how much I can research the style.
I'm not saying his writing was good in NWN2, I'm saying that there's a reason for it. It's obvious from PST and KOTOR 2 that the guy can write. And it's obvious he prefers darker, personal stories with no romance plots, with subversive characters who don't care about each other unless they have a good reason to. Bioware likes giant epic plotlines with tales of Heroism with a plucky band of adventurers who go around the galaxy/sword coast/wherever saving everything. Which is great. Fuck, BGII still stands up as just an astounding story and game But it is also different.
I'm not "placing responsibility" for his poorer than usual writing. He was going for a Bioware game structure and he didn't fail because Bioware is bad, but because he couldn't write a Bioware game. Someone trying to so something that someone else is doing and failing doesn't make it the second persons fault.
Quite frankly, I prefer Avellone's writing to anything Bioware does. But the fact that he was trying to make the game more Bioware-y and failed isn't placing responsibility on Bioware.
Also, how close does the Bioware now resemble the Bioware on Torment's release?
It's was D&D but not D&D.
it had a pretty decent plot! it's a shame the combat was so aggravating.
I tried but you know 180 hours in I forgot what the hell I was supposed to be doing.
I always liked Bhaal, but I hate Cyric. Death to the Black Sun, the Lord of Murder shall return, the Dead Three shall rise once more!
What does this have to do with the quality of the game and/or the game's story in any way
I never asked for this!
Plotlines where the character is a mute blank that I am somehow supposed to project my own personality on despite the game giving me few to no opportunity to do so? Why have a plotline at that point? Might as well read a book.
Yeah...I was really hoping we've moved beyond the whole silent protagonist phase already. I've never felt like those characters were "me" or anything and would rather have them talk instead of them having imaginary conversations with their fellow party mates that I can't hear.
:?:
Through a large portion of the game, you're on an delightful adventure as a pirate looking for the most prized treasure in the galaxy, going to interesting locations to uncover its mystery. Then what do they do? They turn it into Dragonball fucking Z and throw every cliche possible at the player. Last of an ancient race? Super Saiyan transformation with yellow, spiky hair and incredible powers? Unveiling of a terrible, dark entity bent on consuming everything good in the galaxy? Girl turned princess? Et cetera, et cetera? Yes to all of those and more.
Sadly this makes me want to go get the game
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand
Then, halfway through the game you find out some other shmuck is The Chosen One. People start to forget the player character. He's just some guy now. All the fame and glory are gone and people are maybe even a little bitter about it. However, the almighty "Chosen One" (the real one) ends up getting himself killed at the hands of the Big Bad because being "The Chosen One" went strait to his head and made him cocky / arrogant. You, the player character, "some guy," goes on to try and complete what you had set out to do originally as the people of the world sink into despair because they think only "The Chosen One" can save them blah blah blah boohoo what ever shall we do? Basically, folks don't have a lot of faith in you and start preparing for the End of the World.
But, of course, you eventually come face to face with the Big Bad (WHO IS NOT YOUR FATHER GODDAMNIT) as "just some guy" and end up saving the fucking day and proving that you don't have to be some magical, last of your race, child of destiny to get shit done. There is much rejoicing and the world is better for it.
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand
I just got it off Goozex a little while ago, just started playing it. Its pretty good so far, but i havn't become the "chosen one" in it yet. I will probably be shelving this one for a bit though one Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne arrives in the mail (probly tomarrow or next day.) since i am a massive SMT fan and have been waiting to get my hands on Nocturne for ages.
Also, on the topic of super chosen ones. I think Geralt of Rivia made being special awesome, by also being a complete dick to people on frequent occasions, and using his specialness to get laid constantly. :winky:
If you can think of what the title is, let me know so I can go buy 6 or 7 copies of it.
PSN: theIceBurner, IceBurnerEU, IceBurner-JP | X-Link Kai: TheIceBurner
Dragon's Dogma: 192 Warrior Linty | 80 Strider Alicia | 32 Mage Terra
Tales of Symphonia does this ... kind of. Except that you're not the "Chosen One" to begin with, the other "Chosen One" isn't who he appears to be either, he doesn't has to die (but I think he can) and no one has ever heard of you.
Man I dunno that game was okay for a little bit.
(quote plox)