So while teens only make up $153b, most of that is spent on frivolous things.
This is something that anyone who has ever worked retail should know. Most suburban kids going to a mall have an almost 100% disposable income.
They also will later drag their parents there to buy something they could not afford.
Does nobody realize how good teenagers are at -begging-?
This is true.
Very true.
I was so good at this, I didn't need an allowance.
My dad tried to implement one, and then gave up. People underestimate the buying power of tweens' parents. Most of the money tweens/teens spend isn't there own.
So while teens only make up $153b, most of that is spent on frivolous things.
This is something that anyone who has ever worked retail should know. Most suburban kids going to a mall have an almost 100% disposable income.
They also will later drag their parents there to buy something they could not afford.
Does nobody realize how good teenagers are at -begging-?
This doesn't effect those teens though. All the incarnations of the bans I've seen are oriented at night time on weekends without an adult escort. So it isn't going to drive off all teenage consumer spending at malls, just a portion of it.
I'm sure there are differences between the spending habits of teens and adults at malls, but no one opposing these bans on economic grounds has attempted to quantify those differences at all while still making proclamations like the policy being very unsound economically.
So while teens only make up $153b, most of that is spent on frivolous things.
This is something that anyone who has ever worked retail should know. Most suburban kids going to a mall have an almost 100% disposable income.
They also will later drag their parents there to buy something they could not afford.
Does nobody realize how good teenagers are at -begging-?
This doesn't effect those teens though. All the incarnations of the bans I've seen are oriented at night time on weekends without an adult escort. So it isn't going to drive off all teenage consumer spending at malls, just a portion of it.
Having to all stick together is going to annoy everyone, including people who come with their parents. Which will translate into less people going to the mall.
I'm sure there are differences between the spending habits of teens and adults at malls, but no one opposing these bans on economic grounds has attempted to quantify those differences at all while still making proclamations like the policy being very unsound economically.
Decreasing your income even more when you are already in trouble is a bad idea?
HamHamJ on
While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
So while teens only make up $153b, most of that is spent on frivolous things.
This is something that anyone who has ever worked retail should know. Most suburban kids going to a mall have an almost 100% disposable income.
They also will later drag their parents there to buy something they could not afford.
Does nobody realize how good teenagers are at -begging-?
This doesn't effect those teens though. All the incarnations of the bans I've seen are oriented at night time on weekends without an adult escort. So it isn't going to drive off all teenage consumer spending at malls, just a portion of it.
I'm sure there are differences between the spending habits of teens and adults at malls, but no one opposing these bans on economic grounds has attempted to quantify those differences at all while still making proclamations like the policy being very unsound economically.
Well, I teeter back and forth on this. Where I've seen this sort of policy enacted before it doesn't follow the letter of the policy. In fact, I have seen it only really used as a "zero-tolerance" to kick kids who are causing problems out. Banning these kids is an economic disadvantage as banning any group of people from a shopping center would be.
This doesn't effect those teens though. All the incarnations of the bans I've seen are oriented at night time on weekends without an adult escort. So it isn't going to drive off all teenage consumer spending at malls, just a portion of it.
Having to all stick together is going to annoy everyone, including people who come with their parents. Which will translate into less people going to the mall.
I'm sure there are differences between the spending habits of teens and adults at malls, but no one opposing these bans on economic grounds has attempted to quantify those differences at all while still making proclamations like the policy being very unsound economically.
Decreasing your income even more when you are already in trouble is a bad idea?
It isn't clear at all that it will necessarily decrease income. Maybe net revenue will fall, but that is only one component of what determines profits. Even a decline in net revenue though isn't assured.
Most of these policies aren't instituted in a vacuum, the Mall of America policy was enacted after a fatal gang related stabbing and saw crime within the mall go down drastically afterwords. I'd imagine a lack of a feeling of safety will do far more to drive away consumers than any aversion to periodically sticking together.
Well, I teeter back and forth on this. Where I've seen this sort of policy enacted before it doesn't follow the letter of the policy. In fact, I have seen it only really used as a "zero-tolerance" to kick kids who are causing problems out. Banning these kids is an economic disadvantage as banning any group of people from a shopping center would be.
Not every customer is profitable. If you can identify a group that isn't profitable and they don't run afoul of any anti-discrimination laws, it makes sense to kick them out. That is certainly not an economic disadvantage.
This doesn't effect those teens though. All the incarnations of the bans I've seen are oriented at night time on weekends without an adult escort. So it isn't going to drive off all teenage consumer spending at malls, just a portion of it.
Having to all stick together is going to annoy everyone, including people who come with their parents. Which will translate into less people going to the mall.
I'm sure there are differences between the spending habits of teens and adults at malls, but no one opposing these bans on economic grounds has attempted to quantify those differences at all while still making proclamations like the policy being very unsound economically.
Decreasing your income even more when you are already in trouble is a bad idea?
It isn't clear at all that it will necessarily decrease income. Maybe net revenue will fall, but that is only one component of what determines profits. Even a decline in net revenue though isn't assured.
Most of these policies aren't instituted in a vacuum, the Mall of America policy was enacted after a fatal gang related stabbing and saw crime within the mall go down drastically afterwords. I'd imagine a lack of a feeling of safety will do far more to drive away consumers than any aversion to periodically sticking together.
I didn't realize small towns in Florida had a huge teenage gang problem.
HamHamJ on
While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
I'm still mostly hung up on the employees under 18 have to leave policy, that just seems stupid to me. They are already there, they have a job there so are less likely to mess around than other teens, why punish them when they are working for you?
So while teens only make up $153b, most of that is spent on frivolous things.
This is something that anyone who has ever worked retail should know. Most suburban kids going to a mall have an almost 100% disposable income.
They also will later drag their parents there to buy something they could not afford.
Does nobody realize how good teenagers are at -begging-?
This doesn't effect those teens though. All the incarnations of the bans I've seen are oriented at night time on weekends without an adult escort. So it isn't going to drive off all teenage consumer spending at malls, just a portion of it.
I'm sure there are differences between the spending habits of teens and adults at malls, but no one opposing these bans on economic grounds has attempted to quantify those differences at all while still making proclamations like the policy being very unsound economically.
Well, I teeter back and forth on this. Where I've seen this sort of policy enacted before it doesn't follow the letter of the policy. In fact, I have seen it only really used as a "zero-tolerance" to kick kids who are causing problems out. Banning these kids is an economic disadvantage as banning any group of people from a shopping center would be.
Why can't they just put up a sign declaring that they reserve the right to kick anybody out for any reason?
I'm still mostly hung up on the employees under 18 have to leave policy, that just seems stupid to me. They are already there, they have a job there so are less likely to mess around than other teens, why punish them when they are working for you?
It isn't clear at all that it will necessarily decrease income. Maybe net revenue will fall, but that is only one component of what determines profits. Even a decline in net revenue though isn't assured.
Most of these policies aren't instituted in a vacuum, the Mall of America policy was enacted after a fatal gang related stabbing and saw crime within the mall go down drastically afterwords. I'd imagine a lack of a feeling of safety will do far more to drive away consumers than any aversion to periodically sticking together.
I didn't realize small towns in Florida had a huge teenage gang problem.
I didn't realize small towns in Florida were composed of angelic teens who never caused problems. I never claimed all the policies were gang related, I claimed there was usually a cause for the enacting of the policy beyond fuck teens. The stated reason for the policy is that "The new policy is the result of the conduct of unsupervised youth and young adults that has "created an uncomfortable atmosphere for Mall visitors and an increasing safety challenge," Mall general manager Jenny Cheek said during a press conference held Friday afternoon announcing the policy. "
I'm still mostly hung up on the employees under 18 have to leave policy, that just seems stupid to me. They are already there, they have a job there so are less likely to mess around than other teens, why punish them when they are working for you?
Security Guard issues?
If they are at work, then get off, they are most likely in some type of uniform. The security would also see them often, so would learn who they were. Also, someone mentioned the Mall of America exempts those teens who work for them, so why can't this smaller mall?
Why can't they just put up a sign declaring that they reserve the right to kick anybody out for any reason?
Because we're working off the premise that there's a problem, even a small one with the behavior of a small group of teens. Yes, the effect is the same but if they just posted a sign they wouldn't be able to partake in the small-town media circus which follows announcements of "new policy!!!" If no one knows that "steps have been taken" they'll stay away on Friday and Saturday nights assuming that the mall is being run Dead Rising-style by rampant teenagers.
It's about getting people in the door to spend some cash, in the end. Which, I must say, is somewhat ironic.
Why can't they just put up a sign declaring that they reserve the right to kick anybody out for any reason?
One possibility: Consider the "uproar" over the policy change. Besides AngelHedgie, a week from now no-one outside the particular town will have any recollection of the problem.
If they went with the "reserve the right to kick anybody out" tactic imagine what would go down if it so happened that most or all of the people being kicked out in such a way were minorities. Even if they were indeed causing trouble but there was that disparate outcome.
Huge uproar that might turn into something serious indeed.
A mall close to me has the same basic rules, anyone under 18 must be accompanied by a parent or someone 21 or older. They actually check ID at the doors and if you "look" young but are of age, they give you a little neon colored bracelet. I personally love this rule, because i was getting tired of kids on heelies (devil contraptions) running into my 2 children (3 and 2yrs) while we were walking around. Now if I see the little bastages their parent is clothes enough to see my "I will frigging skin your child" look.
This rule was post about a year ago, and they mall is still doing well enough to afford the complete remodel that they are currently performing.
Maybe instead of banning kids they could set up something that gives them something to do besides hang out at a mall all day.
Not that everyone else here hadn't already come to that conclusion, but I'd like to repeat it because I like to think I'm smart.
Not the mall's problem.[/QUOTE]
It's not the mall's problem, true, but it is indicative of a community approach of viewing kids as nothing but trouble. It is something the city council could have had a look at.
Seems pretty similar to a policy instituted by a mall near where I grew up (Carousel Mall in Syracuse) quite a few years ago. I don't know if it applied to mall employees there though, that seems stupid.
yeah. it's still in effect as far as I know, and it started like 6 years ago or something.
It is, complete with vaguely unsettling "ushers" to enforce the policy.
I can't really argue against it, there used to be a shitload of fights out there. No so much so now.
Parents might not like that their teenagers aren't welcome there alone but not more than they disliked the brawls.
A mall close to me has the same basic rules, anyone under 18 must be accompanied by a parent or someone 21 or older. They actually check ID at the doors and if you "look" young but are of age, they give you a little neon colored bracelet.
If I needed to wear a fucking bracelet to go to my local mall, I would seriously tell them to fuck off.
The mall as a place to buy things has become completely obsolete. The only hope they have is to be a place to spend time.
HamHamJ on
While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
That's idiotic. Even money on the place being closed six months later.
This.
This is always what happens to dying malls. They kick out the kids, the parents therefore do not want to come spend money, the mall dies.
Happens every. Single. Time.
There was a god damn mall in the middle of Downtown Omaha. Every single bus in the city had to go past it.. People 18 or under couldn't be in the mall by themselves and they didn't allow people waiting for the bus to stand inside, forcing them to be outside in the cold/extreme heat.
Now it's a parking garage.
Crossroads Mall kicked out the bus riders and kids, and now it has gone under too.
It's like they all live in a vacuum and don't see the other malls shooting themselves in the foot.
Crossroads mall died because it is a shithole and no one sane wants to go there when there are better options like 2 miles away, unless it's to die.
Yeah, know why? Because they shut out all the bus riders.
It was over once it became all clothing stores and the food court was down to 3 restaurants. Also, they should have made the boobtents blue instead of depressing gray.
Actually, that's when you can always tell a mall is about to die, because the # of clothing stores becomes > 50%.
That's idiotic. Even money on the place being closed six months later.
This.
This is always what happens to dying malls. They kick out the kids, the parents therefore do not want to come spend money, the mall dies.
Happens every. Single. Time.
There was a god damn mall in the middle of Downtown Omaha. Every single bus in the city had to go past it.. People 18 or under couldn't be in the mall by themselves and they didn't allow people waiting for the bus to stand inside, forcing them to be outside in the cold/extreme heat.
Now it's a parking garage.
Crossroads Mall kicked out the bus riders and kids, and now it has gone under too.
It's like they all live in a vacuum and don't see the other malls shooting themselves in the foot.
Crossroads mall died because it is a shithole and no one sane wants to go there when there are better options like 2 miles away, unless it's to die.
Yeah, know why? Because they shut out all the bus riders.
It was over once it became all clothing stores and the food court was down to 3 restaurants. Also, they should have made the boobtents blue instead of depressing gray.
Actually, that's when you can always tell a mall is about to die, because the # of clothing stores becomes > 50%.
My top sign a mall is hitting the end is that the local managed and boutique shops close. When our mall, n a deteriorating path anyways, lost a Games Workshop, both anime stores, the comic shop, and whatnot, that was when it really hit bottom. And now they've confirmed it's closing.
That's idiotic. Even money on the place being closed six months later.
This.
This is always what happens to dying malls. They kick out the kids, the parents therefore do not want to come spend money, the mall dies.
Happens every. Single. Time.
There was a god damn mall in the middle of Downtown Omaha. Every single bus in the city had to go past it.. People 18 or under couldn't be in the mall by themselves and they didn't allow people waiting for the bus to stand inside, forcing them to be outside in the cold/extreme heat.
Now it's a parking garage.
Crossroads Mall kicked out the bus riders and kids, and now it has gone under too.
It's like they all live in a vacuum and don't see the other malls shooting themselves in the foot.
Crossroads mall died because it is a shithole and no one sane wants to go there when there are better options like 2 miles away, unless it's to die.
Yeah, know why? Because they shut out all the bus riders.
It was over once it became all clothing stores and the food court was down to 3 restaurants. Also, they should have made the boobtents blue instead of depressing gray.
Actually, that's when you can always tell a mall is about to die, because the # of clothing stores becomes > 50%.
My top sign a mall is hitting the end is that the local managed and boutique shops close. When our mall, n a deteriorating path anyways, lost a Games Workshop, both anime stores, the comic shop, and whatnot, that was when it really hit bottom. And now they've confirmed it's closing.
On the other hand, the mall near where my dad works has been all clothes for a while, although it might be an exception because it's one of the first high class malls.
Anyways, considering I have little spending money since I get horrible hours (4 a week during summer, 10-12 when school is in session) whatever time I do spent at mall I usually end up buying stuff. But of course, I think it's fair to assume that other people might view my friends and I as "obnoxious" teenagers.
It's true tho, we can be dickish. Once spent an hour walking around a HMV crackin' jokes and puns at every tv series/movie DVD we saw. Or loudly proclaiming that noone should buy a paticular movie, and in the process telling everyone in the store the ending and whatnot...
Anyways, considering I have little spending money since I get horrible hours (4 a week during summer, 10-12 when school is in session) whatever time I do spent at mall I usually end up buying stuff. But of course, I think it's fair to assume that other people might view my friends and I as "obnoxious" teenagers.
It's true tho, we can be dickish. Once spent an hour walking around a HMV crackin' jokes and puns at every tv series/movie DVD we saw. Or loudly proclaiming that noone should buy a paticular movie, and in the process telling everyone in the store the ending and whatnot...
Dude, you lost me there. That shit just isn't cool. Being annoying? Forgivable. But spoilers are the worst fucking thing.
Anyways, considering I have little spending money since I get horrible hours (4 a week during summer, 10-12 when school is in session) whatever time I do spent at mall I usually end up buying stuff. But of course, I think it's fair to assume that other people might view my friends and I as "obnoxious" teenagers.
It's true tho, we can be dickish. Once spent an hour walking around a HMV crackin' jokes and puns at every tv series/movie DVD we saw. Or loudly proclaiming that noone should buy a paticular movie, and in the process telling everyone in the store the ending and whatnot...
Dude, you lost me there. That shit just isn't cool. Being annoying? Forgivable. But spoilers are the worst fucking thing.
In his defense, it was The Passion. Even I can tell you that one:
Anyways, considering I have little spending money since I get horrible hours (4 a week during summer, 10-12 when school is in session) whatever time I do spent at mall I usually end up buying stuff. But of course, I think it's fair to assume that other people might view my friends and I as "obnoxious" teenagers.
It's true tho, we can be dickish. Once spent an hour walking around a HMV crackin' jokes and puns at every tv series/movie DVD we saw. Or loudly proclaiming that noone should buy a paticular movie, and in the process telling everyone in the store the ending and whatnot...
Dude, you lost me there. That shit just isn't cool. Being annoying? Forgivable. But spoilers are the worst fucking thing.
In his defense, it was The Passion. Even I can tell you that one:
Anyways, considering I have little spending money since I get horrible hours (4 a week during summer, 10-12 when school is in session) whatever time I do spent at mall I usually end up buying stuff. But of course, I think it's fair to assume that other people might view my friends and I as "obnoxious" teenagers.
It's true tho, we can be dickish. Once spent an hour walking around a HMV crackin' jokes and puns at every tv series/movie DVD we saw. Or loudly proclaiming that noone should buy a paticular movie, and in the process telling everyone in the store the ending and whatnot...
Dude, you lost me there. That shit just isn't cool. Being annoying? Forgivable. But spoilers are the worst fucking thing.
In his defense, it was The Passion. Even I can tell you that one:
The "teenagers ruining it for everyone" experience is happening at one of my local malls. It has become a huge teenager hangout on the weekends. Thus no sensible adult goes near it except to drop off their children. There are repeated fights breaking out and police officers being called due to the disturbances. It's going downhill pretty quick as there aren't a lot of adults shopping. The only stores doing well are hot-topic, the food court, and the movie theater.
The age-policy is not the fault of the mall, it is the fault of the teenagers and their parents. The parents are at fault because they don't educate their children on how to behave in public. The teenagers are at fault because they refuse to do something more productive with their time. Saying "there is nothing else to do" is total bullshit. You can MAKE something to do. Set up projects, do some other activities, play some sports, get some other hobbies, whatever. Hanging out at the local mall is not "something to do", it is "we can't be bothered to do anything".
Posts
This is something that anyone who has ever worked retail should know. Most suburban kids going to a mall have an almost 100% disposable income.
They also will later drag their parents there to buy something they could not afford.
Does nobody realize how good teenagers are at -begging-?
This is true.
Very true.
I was so good at this, I didn't need an allowance.
My dad tried to implement one, and then gave up. People underestimate the buying power of tweens' parents. Most of the money tweens/teens spend isn't there own.
This doesn't effect those teens though. All the incarnations of the bans I've seen are oriented at night time on weekends without an adult escort. So it isn't going to drive off all teenage consumer spending at malls, just a portion of it.
I'm sure there are differences between the spending habits of teens and adults at malls, but no one opposing these bans on economic grounds has attempted to quantify those differences at all while still making proclamations like the policy being very unsound economically.
Having to all stick together is going to annoy everyone, including people who come with their parents. Which will translate into less people going to the mall.
Decreasing your income even more when you are already in trouble is a bad idea?
Well, I teeter back and forth on this. Where I've seen this sort of policy enacted before it doesn't follow the letter of the policy. In fact, I have seen it only really used as a "zero-tolerance" to kick kids who are causing problems out. Banning these kids is an economic disadvantage as banning any group of people from a shopping center would be.
It isn't clear at all that it will necessarily decrease income. Maybe net revenue will fall, but that is only one component of what determines profits. Even a decline in net revenue though isn't assured.
Most of these policies aren't instituted in a vacuum, the Mall of America policy was enacted after a fatal gang related stabbing and saw crime within the mall go down drastically afterwords. I'd imagine a lack of a feeling of safety will do far more to drive away consumers than any aversion to periodically sticking together.
Not every customer is profitable. If you can identify a group that isn't profitable and they don't run afoul of any anti-discrimination laws, it makes sense to kick them out. That is certainly not an economic disadvantage.
I didn't realize small towns in Florida had a huge teenage gang problem.
Why can't they just put up a sign declaring that they reserve the right to kick anybody out for any reason?
Security Guard issues?
I didn't realize small towns in Florida were composed of angelic teens who never caused problems. I never claimed all the policies were gang related, I claimed there was usually a cause for the enacting of the policy beyond fuck teens. The stated reason for the policy is that "The new policy is the result of the conduct of unsupervised youth and young adults that has "created an uncomfortable atmosphere for Mall visitors and an increasing safety challenge," Mall general manager Jenny Cheek said during a press conference held Friday afternoon announcing the policy. "
If they are at work, then get off, they are most likely in some type of uniform. The security would also see them often, so would learn who they were. Also, someone mentioned the Mall of America exempts those teens who work for them, so why can't this smaller mall?
Because we're working off the premise that there's a problem, even a small one with the behavior of a small group of teens. Yes, the effect is the same but if they just posted a sign they wouldn't be able to partake in the small-town media circus which follows announcements of "new policy!!!" If no one knows that "steps have been taken" they'll stay away on Friday and Saturday nights assuming that the mall is being run Dead Rising-style by rampant teenagers.
It's about getting people in the door to spend some cash, in the end. Which, I must say, is somewhat ironic.
One possibility: Consider the "uproar" over the policy change. Besides AngelHedgie, a week from now no-one outside the particular town will have any recollection of the problem.
If they went with the "reserve the right to kick anybody out" tactic imagine what would go down if it so happened that most or all of the people being kicked out in such a way were minorities. Even if they were indeed causing trouble but there was that disparate outcome.
Huge uproar that might turn into something serious indeed.
This rule was post about a year ago, and they mall is still doing well enough to afford the complete remodel that they are currently performing.
Not the mall's problem.[/QUOTE]
It's not the mall's problem, true, but it is indicative of a community approach of viewing kids as nothing but trouble. It is something the city council could have had a look at.
It is, complete with vaguely unsettling "ushers" to enforce the policy.
I can't really argue against it, there used to be a shitload of fights out there. No so much so now.
Parents might not like that their teenagers aren't welcome there alone but not more than they disliked the brawls.
If I needed to wear a fucking bracelet to go to my local mall, I would seriously tell them to fuck off.
The mall as a place to buy things has become completely obsolete. The only hope they have is to be a place to spend time.
Yeah, know why? Because they shut out all the bus riders.
It was over once it became all clothing stores and the food court was down to 3 restaurants. Also, they should have made the boobtents blue instead of depressing gray.
Actually, that's when you can always tell a mall is about to die, because the # of clothing stores becomes > 50%.
On the other hand, the mall near where my dad works has been all clothes for a while, although it might be an exception because it's one of the first high class malls.
You walk around like your farts don't stink.
Anyways, considering I have little spending money since I get horrible hours (4 a week during summer, 10-12 when school is in session) whatever time I do spent at mall I usually end up buying stuff. But of course, I think it's fair to assume that other people might view my friends and I as "obnoxious" teenagers.
It's true tho, we can be dickish. Once spent an hour walking around a HMV crackin' jokes and puns at every tv series/movie DVD we saw. Or loudly proclaiming that noone should buy a paticular movie, and in the process telling everyone in the store the ending and whatnot...
Dude, you lost me there. That shit just isn't cool. Being annoying? Forgivable. But spoilers are the worst fucking thing.
In his defense, it was The Passion. Even I can tell you that one:
shit man I thought it was Darth Vader
Oh, it was
But he was a fatty neckbeard.
So.
Also, it was a tom cruise movie.
MIGHT have been war of the worlds. Mabey.
The age-policy is not the fault of the mall, it is the fault of the teenagers and their parents. The parents are at fault because they don't educate their children on how to behave in public. The teenagers are at fault because they refuse to do something more productive with their time. Saying "there is nothing else to do" is total bullshit. You can MAKE something to do. Set up projects, do some other activities, play some sports, get some other hobbies, whatever. Hanging out at the local mall is not "something to do", it is "we can't be bothered to do anything".