Our new Indie Games subforum is now open for business in G&T. Go and check it out, you might land a code for a free game. If you're developing an indie game and want to post about it, follow these directions. If you don't, he'll break your legs! Hahaha! Seriously though.
Our rules have been updated and given their own forum. Go and look at them! They are nice, and there may be new ones that you didn't know about! Hooray for rules! Hooray for The System! Hooray for Conforming!

[Ultimate Comics] Divided We Fall

24567100

Posts

  • TexiKenTexiKen Was it Kierkegaard or Dick Van Patten who said, Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    So it's been a while since i read the two Ultimate Iron Man's, but there was no previous mention of Tony's brother before UC 2 was there?


    No there was not.

    corel309-Copy_zps0390a6cc.jpg
  • Robos A Go GoRobos A Go Go Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    I didn't like where Millar went with the Red Skull.
    Spoiler:

  • wirehead26wirehead26 Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    They did explain why Skull took his face off, although it was done in typical Millar-level subtlety. And oh man that was such a nasty scene with him taking all the staff and guards.

  • Magna InfernoMagna Inferno Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    I didn't like where Millar went with the Red Skull.
    Spoiler:

    He's just lashing out against his good for nothing pops, who was never there for him. I wouldn't expect you with your sakura cosplay dream world to understand.

    ultimates-1.png
  • FaynorFaynor Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    I didn't like where Millar went with the Red Skull.
    Spoiler:

    He's just lashing out against his good for nothing pops, who was never there for him. I wouldn't expect you with your sakura cosplay dream world to understand.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zN6MxLYB8hM

    do you wanna see me eat a hotdog
  • Robos A Go GoRobos A Go Go Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    wirehead26 wrote: »
    They did explain why Skull took his face off, although it was done in typical Millar-level subtlety. And oh man that was such a nasty scene with him taking all the staff and guards.

    Well, i said "no real reason". Wanting to get rid of the only thing you inherited from your father is a dumb reason, and the only reason it makes any kind of sense is because the character is called Red Skull and he needed to lose his face somehow.

  • FaynorFaynor Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    wirehead26 wrote: »
    They did explain why Skull took his face off, although it was done in typical Millar-level subtlety. And oh man that was such a nasty scene with him taking all the staff and guards.

    Well, i said "no real reason". Wanting to get rid of the only thing you inherited from your father is a dumb reason, and the only reason it makes any kind of sense is because the character is called Red Skull and he needed to lose his face somehow.

    3672466278_882b53f2f1.jpg

    do you wanna see me eat a hotdog
  • ThaneThane Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    So i read it and didn't understand, was the Red Skull an exact copy of Cap or did he just look, kinda the same?
    I can get behind the first via comic logic, why he would basically shred his face, rebellion and what not, but otherwise? Thats just kinda dumb

    On another note, Pacheco kinda feels like hes trying to hard to sort of emulate Hitch's art (panel layout and action sequences) which kinda bugs me.
    During Zero Tolerance, he had some really nice pieces which drew me in, the same way Hitch's did, whilst still retaining his pacheco-ness.

    286v37l.jpg
  • DrakeonDrakeon Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Thane wrote: »
    So i read it and didn't understand, was the Red Skull an exact copy of Cap or did he just look, kinda the same?
    I can get behind the first via comic logic, why he would basically shred his face, rebellion and what not, but otherwise? Thats just kinda dumb

    On another note, Pacheco kinda feels like hes trying to hard to sort of emulate Hitch's art (panel layout and action sequences) which kinda bugs me.
    During Zero Tolerance, he had some really nice pieces which drew me in, the same way Hitch's did, whilst still retaining his pacheco-ness.

    Red Skull is Cap's son, so he's not an exact copy, no.

    PSN: Drakieon XBL: Drakieon Steam: TheDrakeon
  • ThaneThane Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    i got that he was his son, but they didn't really(as far as i could tell) elaborate why he opted for self mutilation, just stating that he was removing the face his father gave him.
    If Millar doesn't give it some fat, thats kind of a dumb reason for the whole act

    286v37l.jpg
  • Me Too!Me Too! __BANNED USERS regular
    edited September 2009
    wirehead26 wrote: »
    They did explain why Skull took his face off, although it was done in typical Millar-level subtlety. And oh man that was such a nasty scene with him taking all the staff and guards.

    Well, i said "no real reason". Wanting to get rid of the only thing you inherited from your father is a dumb reason, and the only reason it makes any kind of sense is because the character is called Red Skull and he needed to lose his face somehow.

    No it's not, if you have grown up to resent everything that father represents and stands for

    WHICH HE HAS ("17 years of rage" so on and so forth)

    Not that I know anything about hating fathers or anything but man you people are dense

  • Robos A Go GoRobos A Go Go Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Me Too! wrote: »
    wirehead26 wrote: »
    They did explain why Skull took his face off, although it was done in typical Millar-level subtlety. And oh man that was such a nasty scene with him taking all the staff and guards.

    Well, i said "no real reason". Wanting to get rid of the only thing you inherited from your father is a dumb reason, and the only reason it makes any kind of sense is because the character is called Red Skull and he needed to lose his face somehow.

    No it's not, if you have grown up to resent everything that father represents and stands for

    WHICH HE HAS ("17 years of rage" so on and so forth)

    Not that I know anything about hating fathers or anything but man you people are dense

    Nothing is even mentioned about him hating his father until he cuts his face off, and that is a pretty extraordinary thing to do in light of such ordinary feelings. It's a flimsy explanation.

  • RingoRingo Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    So Ultimate Red Skull is a mercenary who mutilated his own face because his dad was dead?

    Man, at least Ultimate Deadpool sacrificed his face for a goddamn cause.

    That's dumber than Doom putting a metal mask on his face fresh out of the oven.

    ceres wrote: »
    I'm just going to go ahead and lock this thread before I feel any worse about humanity.
    AUGMENTOS - Edcrab's Exigency RPG
  • FaynorFaynor Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Ultimate Ringo's face looked that way when he was born.

    do you wanna see me eat a hotdog
  • RingoRingo Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Life is hilariously cruel

    ceres wrote: »
    I'm just going to go ahead and lock this thread before I feel any worse about humanity.
    AUGMENTOS - Edcrab's Exigency RPG
  • LilithiumLilithium __BANNED USERS
    edited September 2009
    I'm liking Ultimate Comics Spider-Man, but with the whole Red Skull being Cap's son, and cutting his face off because he's a tactical genius and has built-up plenty of rage makes me want to nod in agreement for a bit, and then blow my brains out.

    Does that make sense?

    What's that ringing? Ting-ting-a-linging in my head~? Oh, you're always there, making me whole. You're always waiting up for me. You're my first kiss, ever so pure, and ever so defiling, once lost, can never be the same. Fuck me. Violate me. Deny me.
  • Me Too!Me Too! __BANNED USERS regular
    edited September 2009
    Me Too! wrote: »
    wirehead26 wrote: »
    They did explain why Skull took his face off, although it was done in typical Millar-level subtlety. And oh man that was such a nasty scene with him taking all the staff and guards.

    Well, i said "no real reason". Wanting to get rid of the only thing you inherited from your father is a dumb reason, and the only reason it makes any kind of sense is because the character is called Red Skull and he needed to lose his face somehow.

    No it's not, if you have grown up to resent everything that father represents and stands for

    WHICH HE HAS ("17 years of rage" so on and so forth)

    Not that I know anything about hating fathers or anything but man you people are dense

    Nothing is even mentioned about him hating his father until he cuts his face off, and that is a pretty extraordinary thing to do in light of such ordinary feelings. It's a flimsy explanation.

    "everything that has happened in the last seventeen years is because my father is Captain America and it sucks and so does he" is not the same as "I am mad at my dad"

    Also

    He's fucking insane

  • Me Too!Me Too! __BANNED USERS regular
    edited September 2009
    Also

    he is mad because he is reminded of his father, whose fault it quite literally is that he has lived in a fucking lab his whole life, every time he looks in the mirror

    So

  • Kris_xKKris_xK Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    WTF Tony Stark has a brother?

    calvinhobbessleddingsig2.gif
  • CrimsondudeCrimsondude Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
  • FaynorFaynor Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    I think Tony Stark's brother should be a brotha.

    Tony Stark's brotha should be black.

    do you wanna see me eat a hotdog
  • CrimsondudeCrimsondude Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    That's what Rhodey is for.

  • Golden YakGolden Yak Burnished Bovine The PIT, level 26Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Me Too! wrote: »
    Also

    He's fucking insane


    Honestly, I've got the feeling that this has more to do with it than anything else. This might be the only thing that's driving him.

    The original Red Skull was a nazi, convinced of his inherent superiority. What if Ultimate Skull is the same, growing up just 'knowing' that he is better than everyone around him? That everyone else is not even a real person since they're nowhere near as strong or smart as he is? 'I'm a god amongst these people and I can do whatever I want.' He marked himself not to remove what he'd inherited from his father but to set himself apart from all the 'mere humans' out there.

    I think it would be interesting for the Skull to have absolutely no real feelings about his father one way or the other, and just be some crazed, self-deluded demigod convinced everyone else is an animal that exists for him to mess with. That Cap being there in his youth wouldn't have changed anything at all - he'd still have turned out rotten.

  • HenslerHensler Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Yeah, Ultimate Red Skull was basically a lab rat his whole life, with no real parents or family - just a bunch of scientists fucking with him the whole time, and probably telling him how great his dead father was. It fucked his head up real good. As Hank Hill would say, "That boy ain't right."

  • ThaneThane Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    I don't think anyones arguing the reason why he did it, just that it needed to be said or shown a bit more somewhere in the comic.

    286v37l.jpg
  • Robos A Go GoRobos A Go Go Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Yeah, it's presented kind of abruptly and matter of factly, like, "By the way, it turns out he resented you and looking like you, so he cut off his face." If the idea had been presented earlier, perhaps by mentioning that one of the few psychological quirks he displayed was an aversion to his reflection and/or a reluctance to talk about his father, it would've been easier to accept.

  • HenslerHensler Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    I disagree - they said that part of his "tactical genius" was that he never showed any signs of wanting to escape before. By just having him flip out, kill 200 guys, and then cut his own face off out of the blue, it's coming off as he really was a crazy bastard, but smart enough to hide it. To me, not having it explained fits with the whole "tactical genius" aspect.

    And who's to say that he won't start monologue-ing when Cap tracks him down about why did it.

  • Robos A Go GoRobos A Go Go Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    A tactical genius would realize that having a fucked up face would really hamper his ability to stay under the radar. He may be brilliant in most respects, but clearly his feelings about his lineage are nonetheless completely irrational. Given that, some foreshadowing wouldn't have been out of the question.

  • BlackjackBlackjack Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Faynor wrote: »
    I think Tony Stark's brother should be a brotha.

    Tony Stark's brotha should be black.
    And gay. So it can be just like How I Met Your Mother.

    steam_sig.png

    3DS: 1607-3034-6970 | Let's Play Avadon 2!
  • wirehead26wirehead26 Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Anyone here going to pick up Ultimate Armor Wars this week?

  • HadjiQuestHadjiQuest Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    wirehead26 wrote: »
    Anyone here going to pick up Ultimate Armor Wars this week?

    I'm considering it.

    Although it'd be weeks before I'd actually get it in the mail.

    Plus I'm spending wayyy more than I should be on comics right now.

    I just read the preview, and realized that even though Ultimatum may have been a crappy event, it left a wonderful aftermath for new stories to be set in. There's a line about Tony and Reed cleaning out their labs of crazy science weapons before looters find them, which is an awesome idea.

  • projectmayhemprojectmayhem Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Just picked up ucsm 1 and 2. 1 I loved so hard. I was laughing all the way through. Issue 2 I was a little meh on. I can make up my mind if I like the art as well. It's hard to look at after USM 1-133.

  • ThaneThane Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    i miss Immonen. He was the custard to the crust that was Bendis. A fine custard pie, which i imagine tastes delicious

    286v37l.jpg
  • projectmayhemprojectmayhem Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Thane wrote: »
    i miss Immonen. He was the custard to the crust that was Bendis. A fine custard pie, which i imagine tastes delicious

    I agree. What is he working on now?

  • ThaneThane Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Last seen on the latest New Avengers, which had some amazing layouts, but that doesn't keep me from missing the hell out of his Spider Man
    Bagley may be the fan favorite, but my dude Immonen was where its at

    286v37l.jpg
  • ZampanovZampanov You May Not Go Home Until Tonight Has Been MagicalRegistered User regular
    edited September 2009
    I just read Ult Avengers 1 and 2 the other day. Never ever thought I'd say this, but Mark Millar to the fuckin' rescue.
    Spoiler:

    <3 Ultimate Cap.

    kravensig.gif
    PSN/XBL: Zampanov -- Steam: Zampanov
  • SentrySentry Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Zampanov wrote: »
    I just read Ult Avengers 1 and 2 the other day. Never ever thought I'd say this, but Mark Millar to the fuckin' rescue.
    Spoiler:

    <3 Ultimate Cap.

    bah... that's the kind of Cap writing that makes me hate Ultimate Cap. I get that Miller thinks he has his finger on the pulse of what it meant to be a man back in the 1940's, but his characterizations just come off as forced and silly.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    wrote:
    When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
    'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
  • Robos A Go GoRobos A Go Go Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Yeah, bear in mind that Cap was a 100 pound weakling cartoonist before his exposure to the serum. Unless a sudden surge of testosterone drove him mad, his characterization ought to reflect his former life as much as his current life.

  • mattharvestmattharvest Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Yeah, bear in mind that Cap was a 100 pound weakling cartoonist before his exposure to the serum. Unless a sudden surge of testosterone drove him mad, his characterization ought to reflect his former life as much as his current life.

    You're right, of course. I do think it's plausible though that a 90lb weakling would actually overcompensate once he was made so powerful. Think of all the stories about power corrupting, and whatnot. After all, think about his life, post-serum: gorgeous, ripped, famous and beloved by everyone. He goes from a nobody to stopping the Chitaur'i invasion singlehandedly. It's not surprising that he might start embodying some of the stereotypes he previously held about such "strong" people.

  • SentrySentry Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Yeah, bear in mind that Cap was a 100 pound weakling cartoonist before his exposure to the serum. Unless a sudden surge of testosterone drove him mad, his characterization ought to reflect his former life as much as his current life.

    You're right, of course. I do think it's plausible though that a 90lb weakling would actually overcompensate once he was made so powerful. Think of all the stories about power corrupting, and whatnot. After all, think about his life, post-serum: gorgeous, ripped, famous and beloved by everyone. He goes from a nobody to stopping the Chitaur'i invasion singlehandedly. It's not surprising that he might start embodying some of the stereotypes he previously held about such "strong" people.

    It's surprising to me. I find it to be a rather poor characterization. I get that it could happen, I guess, but it definitely dilutes the nobleness that Captain America embodied, that which I always attributed to his having been given such a gift.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    wrote:
    When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
    'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
Sign In or Register to comment.