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Man raises demon in church. Is this a crime?
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Apparently he summoned an element.
This actually highly depends on how you interpret freedom of religion. If you interpret as each person is free to practice their own religion, then we can never have a complete freedom of religion. Any religion that involves actively attempting to convert others infringes on the others' freedom of religion, and not allowing the converting religious people to attempt to convert infringes on theirs as well. At this point, it really is just trying to make as many people happy as possible.
If you look at it that the government shall not mandate one religion and will not show favor to any religion over another, then this is much more possible as each religion can be seen and treated equally in the eyes of the government/law.
If only the founding fathers could have been just a little bit more specific.
Also, as far as it being considered harrasment it really does depend on the intent and actions involved. Simply because you may take more offense to the fact that someone prayed for you more than others might doesn't mean it is more of a harrasment to you than others if the exact same action is taken. Again, this is ideally how it should work, IMO. In reality, I imagine the more distressed you are/act the more it seems like they harrassed you.
Edit: Wow, I completely missed that this was happening in England. I know nothing of UK law.
Religions that require human sacrifice aren't allowed to perform them either.
This is sarcasm, right? Because it's pretty clear that the establishment clause is your second case.
When have human sacrafice for religious reasons come up? I do imagine it would get shot down pretty fast and murder charges would get handed out.
And yea... that... it wasn't intended as sarcasm but thats because I fail. I always try to join discussions hours after I should have been in bed.
As for the law in question,
I have a problem with the bolded portions. Abusive and insulting speech, though boorish, should not be outlawed. This law seems like a great way to silence unpopular viewpoints.
Rigorous Scholarship
Technicaly, they would say they point out the danger of demons, not invoking them to do their bidding. They would also say they give protection against them thru their sermons.
It's pretty much there so cops can take in people who swear at them (or in general), and behaviour they don't approve of.
Depends on whether you consider it a positive or negative liberty.
For you, and in the US, it's a positive one.
In, say, India, it's a negative one.
It's a matter of if it gets enforced in that manner. Just because it has potential to doesn't mean it will be. Let's not slippery slope this shit. And let's not slip it into politics (since you mentioned "unpopular viewpoints," a phrase not used when speaking of religion often).
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"Representative Kennedy's positions on healthcare are draconian and counter-productive" = not abusive and insulting
It depends on the application of the law, but that goes for any law.
Well, the presence of the demon depends on whether or not the demon's Magnitude (Infernal Power / 5) is greater than the Divine Aura of the Church in question. Summoning the demon is actually more tricky, as the summoner would need to subtract the Divine Aura of the Church from his summoning roll, and that modified roll would then need to exceed the demon's Infernal Power. If the Magus has actually accomplished what he claims, then either he's quite powerful or the Divine Aura of the Church is quite low.
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And why do you want to just ignore politics? This law makes no distinction between political and religious views.
Rigorous Scholarship
Nobody should have to put up with some racist bigot barking shit at them. That's harassment, and the law is 100% fine if enforced in that situation.
Society is trying to move beyond racist or homophobic ignorance. Aren't you up to speed yet?
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You mean such as
(the sites biased but certainly something to look into).
Or the subsect of this law which has had a man arrested for writing some unseemly fanfiction about the Pussy Cat Dolls?
You seem to be comfortable with ceding to the government the power to decide which opinions are okay and which ones are out of bounds. I'm not- when given that power, government has traditionally used it to eventually silence the opposition.
I may not like what members of racist and homophobic groups have to say, but I fully support their right to speak their opinions. The fact that some douchebag doesn't use their rights in a civil manner is unfortunate, but it is not a reason to give government the power to silence peaceful speech.
The point of protecting freedom of speech is to protect unpopular or controversial views. Popular and noncontroversial views don't need legal protection.
Rigorous Scholarship
The fact of the matter is, freedom of speech has a time and place.
Edit - And since you're one of those people who have a hard-on for the government as a whole being oppressive enough to ZOMGSILENCE PEOPLE, explain Fox news. You can't. Because you're an idiot and wrong.
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Not in the UK. They don't have a First Amendment. Because, they're there. Not here.
We have our own solution for this on our side of the pond.
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Of course, this witch hasn't actually killed anyone, just allegedly annoyed them, but this is exactly the kind of situation the exception was created for - unusual religious practices, witch doctors, curses, etc. that the British Empire came across around the world.
Besides, these "cause disorder" offences the OP quoted usually require more than just bothering someone - the "target" has to be bothered, upset, alarmed, etc. so much that there is an actual disturbance. I.E. if this "demon" causes a near-riot of upset parishioners, someone takes a swing at this witch, etc.
Of course, at the end of the day, people shouldn't be jerks, blah, blah, blah, respect reasonable religious practices, blah, blah, blah.
Been RAing since this went down. But nobody in Halls has said anything, or on the news. I'm actually curious now, Church of Our Lady isn't far. Maybe I'll drop in.
That's a bad example- you're talking about a private restaurant, where free speech protections do not apply, typically. In that scenario, it would be up to the owner to decide what was and wasn't acceptable speech.
The Supreme Court calls these time, place and manner restrictions. But, that is different from banning speech based on content. This law seems to be aimed at going after people because the content of their speech upsets others.
What does Fox News have to do with this discussion?
And are you really claiming that government oppression of free speech is something that people shouldn't be worried about? Are you okay with the so-called "free speech zones" that governments set up during economic summits and the like, to make sure that protestors don't injure the ears of delicate politicians?
This statement is funny, because I could see using the law in question against you for calling me that in public.
Rigorous Scholarship
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Rigorous Scholarship
I find your public display of writing insulting and abusive. The police have been notified.
This isn't a matter of slippery sloping. This is a matter of shitty legislation that can only be applied arbitrarily or completely retardedly if people crybaby it up.
Hurt feelings should not be a limit to free speech. Creating a disturbance is an acceptable limit.
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(1) A person is guilty of an offence [of harassment, alarm, or distress] if he:
(a) uses threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour, or disorderly behaviour, or
(b) displays any writing, sign or other visible representation which is threatening, abusive or insulting,
within the hearing or sight of a person likely to be caused harassment, alarm or distress thereby.
thought criminal!
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tell it to the judge.
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"Why are you so mental?"
Rigorous Scholarship
Ask them about what I said earlier regarding churches being safehouses from evil and if that's why they feel no exorcism is necessary. And if that isn't it, ask them if they don't think it's necessary because they don't think the guy was capable of doing it at all.
:?
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Its OK though, I banished the demon. So no harm no foul.
Claiming to have raised a demon in a Church should not be a criminal matter on both the grounds of religious and expressive freedoms. Going into the Church and harassing someone is different but there doesn't seem to be evidence of that, nor does the silliness of this topic make it criminal. If he was going in there and saying that they smelled of elderberries it would be no different.
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