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Is lack of sleep effecting my running?

PixelMonkeyPixelMonkey Registered User regular
edited October 2009 in Help / Advice Forum
Hey all lately my running ability speed wise has well completely gone down the shiter since I've started uni. The only reason I can seem to think of is the lack of sleep caused by the insomnia I had all thanks to my anxiety condition. I usually manage to get about 4 hours a sleep a day if I'm lucky. But would lack of sleep really screw up my running this badly going from 3:15 a kilometer an average to struggling to do 3:30 for everything 1000 meters?

PixelMonkey on
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

Posts

  • MetalbourneMetalbourne Tube's Favorite Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
  • RUNN1NGMANRUNN1NGMAN Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Are you a track superstar or something? I ask because 3:15 min/km (5:12 min/mi) is really fast for a normal run if you're not doing some sort of speed training. You may just be burning yourself out big time (which may also explain the sleep problems and stress).

    Or are you talking about race time? Most people aren't going to run anywhere close to that fast unless they are in a race or training for one.

    Could you put into context how you're running? Is this like in a 5K, or running repeats?

  • kaliyamakaliyama Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    yeah. i took some of the edge off it y powernapping right before a run, but nothing can replace a solid 8 hours at night. you're going really really fast, so i second what runningman said.

    fwKS7.png?1
  • SliderSlider Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    4hrs is not nearly enough sleep. Your body, muscles, and mind need a lot of time to rest and recooperate.

  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Yeah, when you're running at that level, a lack of sleep can definitely affect you that much.

    Also, a shitty diet is going to hurt a lot, too. Have you been eating worse since coming to college, too?

  • PixelMonkeyPixelMonkey Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    RUNN1NGMAN wrote: »
    Are you a track superstar or something? I ask because 3:15 min/km (5:12 min/mi) is really fast for a normal run if you're not doing some sort of speed training. You may just be burning yourself out big time (which may also explain the sleep problems and stress).

    Or are you talking about race time? Most people aren't going to run anywhere close to that fast unless they are in a race or training for one.

    Could you put into context how you're running? Is this like in a 5K, or running repeats?

    Well lets see I'm one of the top runners in my age group for Western Australia, though other guys around my age do 5km or 10 km while I tend to focus on 10 km, half marathons or full marathons so I usually get beaten on the shorter stuff . Before the problems I could keep a 3min 15sec or 3min 20 sec pace for those events without much worries if I prepared properly and tampered correctly.

    For one of my speed sessions of six reps of 1000 meters with one minute in between. Before the problems I was doing 3 mins 5 secounds or under three minutes if I got lucky.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • PixelMonkeyPixelMonkey Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Yeah, when you're running at that level, a lack of sleep can definitely affect you that much.

    Also, a shitty diet is going to hurt a lot, too. Have you been eating worse since coming to college, too?

    Been often skipping meals to keep studying or continue assignment work not uncommon to forget lunch or breakfast or both.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • DerrickDerrick Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    At that level, you need to do two things.

    1) Get a full 8 hours of sleep.

    2) Eat correctly. A suitable diet, and especially do not skip breakfast.

    I'm assuming you have a coach of some kind? Please tell me he's helpful enough to give you this kind of common sense wisdom.

    "The welfare of each of us is dependent fundamentally upon the welfare of all of us."
    Spoiler:
    -Theodore Roosevelt
  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Yeah, when you're running at that level, a lack of sleep can definitely affect you that much.

    Also, a shitty diet is going to hurt a lot, too. Have you been eating worse since coming to college, too?
    Been often skipping meals to keep studying or continue assignment work not uncommon to forget lunch or breakfast or both.
    That's not going to help things, either.

    Ask your coach for a good diet. You're at the level where you really should have a strict, planned-out diet as part of your training regime.

  • DanMachDanMach Registered User
    edited October 2009
    Let me ask you this:

    Before you take a big exam, do you get a good nights sleep?

    Are you in a better mood when well rested?

    Do you have an extra bounce in your step when well rested?

    (can you see where this goes?)

  • ChanusChanus Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Lack of sleep affects everything you do.

    It's not just going to affect your running, it will affect how well you do at Uni: your ability to concentrate and your ability to store information you've learned.

    Get eight hours of sleep. If anxiety is keeping you from doing that, see your doctor. I would also recommend looking into something like yoga or just meditation to help level yourself out. Cut back on caffeine, especially after 4:00pm or so. Eat more healthily, which will also improve your ability to sleep. Stay on as regular a schedule as you can.

  • CognisseurCognisseur Registered User
    edited October 2009
    short answer: yes

    long answer: yyyyyyyeeeeeesssssssss


    Seriously, how is this one not obvious?

    For that matter, how the hell did you get this fast with no basic understanding of sleep requirements and eating properly?

  • RUNN1NGMANRUNN1NGMAN Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    RUNN1NGMAN wrote: »
    Are you a track superstar or something? I ask because 3:15 min/km (5:12 min/mi) is really fast for a normal run if you're not doing some sort of speed training. You may just be burning yourself out big time (which may also explain the sleep problems and stress).

    Or are you talking about race time? Most people aren't going to run anywhere close to that fast unless they are in a race or training for one.

    Could you put into context how you're running? Is this like in a 5K, or running repeats?

    Well lets see I'm one of the top runners in my age group for Western Australia, though other guys around my age do 5km or 10 km while I tend to focus on 10 km, half marathons or full marathons so I usually get beaten on the shorter stuff . Before the problems I could keep a 3min 15sec or 3min 20 sec pace for those events without much worries if I prepared properly and tampered correctly.

    For one of my speed sessions of six reps of 1000 meters with one minute in between. Before the problems I was doing 3 mins 5 secounds or under three minutes if I got lucky.

    Ok, that helps :)

    So you're obviously not some overzealous person who thinks "going for a run" means running as hard as you can until you can't run any more (trust me, I've met people like that).

    I'd say the lack of sleep is definitely affecting you, and because you're not getting enough rest (not even close to enough) you may be suffering from over-training, which will compound the fatigue and lack of speed.

    What's your training cycle like? Do you weave in a lighter week every 3 weeks or so? Do you have a coach, and if so what does he or she think? When you're training at that level, any tiny variation from what's optimal for you can really throw things off.

  • EggyToastEggyToast Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    I do not train at your level, but I do train. I just finished a century ride last weekend (100 miles on a bike), and my wife and I trained for it beforehand. We have a good trail nearby that's about 10 miles, so we'd go around that 4-6 times on a weekend.

    The difference between just having a bigger breakfast was huge. The first time we did 50 miles around, we had a bowl of cereal for breakfast. Around mile 20, we were crashing, hardcore -- fatigue everywhere, feeling beat up, and of course slowing down. We chowed down on some bars and were able to finish 43 miles. Next day we were achy and feeling beat up.

    The next time, we ate a big pancake breakfast, consuming probably 800 calories. We then did 60 miles EASY, having a granola bar every loop after the first 2 loops. The difference between working with a calorie surplus (which you are then using) vs working with a calorie deficit is significant. And you can't just starve and then eat, because your body will start to consume your muscle mass if you're starving -- even if you don't feel like you're starving when you skip breakfast & lunch.

    In addition, yes, a lack of sleep will certainly affect your performance, as sleep is one of the main times where your muscles recoup. You're basically trying to run "on empty."

    || Flickr — || PSN: EggyToast
  • Robos A Go GoRobos A Go Go Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    EggyToast wrote: »
    I do not train at your level, but I do train. I just finished a century ride last weekend (100 miles on a bike), and my wife and I trained for it beforehand. We have a good trail nearby that's about 10 miles, so we'd go around that 4-6 times on a weekend.

    The difference between just having a bigger breakfast was huge. The first time we did 50 miles around, we had a bowl of cereal for breakfast. Around mile 20, we were crashing, hardcore -- fatigue everywhere, feeling beat up, and of course slowing down. We chowed down on some bars and were able to finish 43 miles. Next day we were achy and feeling beat up.

    The next time, we ate a big pancake breakfast, consuming probably 800 calories. We then did 60 miles EASY, having a granola bar every loop after the first 2 loops. The difference between working with a calorie surplus (which you are then using) vs working with a calorie deficit is significant. And you can't just starve and then eat, because your body will start to consume your muscle mass if you're starving -- even if you don't feel like you're starving when you skip breakfast & lunch.

    In addition, yes, a lack of sleep will certainly affect your performance, as sleep is one of the main times where your muscles recoup. You're basically trying to run "on empty."

    How much time are you supposed to put between eating a big breakfast and exercising?

  • tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Getting a full nights sleep is possibly the best thing you can do for almost all aspects of your life in my opinion. It's why buying a good bed is the best investment you can make.

    Your puny weapons are useless against me
  • PixelMonkeyPixelMonkey Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Cognisseur wrote: »
    short answer: yes

    long answer: yyyyyyyeeeeeesssssssss


    Seriously, how is this one not obvious?

    For that matter, how the hell did you get this fast with no basic understanding of sleep requirements and eating properly?

    Trust me I used to eat properly.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • EggyToastEggyToast Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    How much time are you supposed to put between eating a big breakfast and exercising?

    A lot of this depends on comfort. If you eat a very big breakfast, you may feel sick to your stomach if you exercise too soon afterwards. It also takes protein about 40 minutes before it starts to be used by your body for energy.

    That being said, you get "sugar boosts" after about 15 minutes. For me, it was breakfast > 30 minute to drive & get bikes on car > start biking, and I was fine.

    If you're eating protein-rich food (say, peanuts, or shrimp) and then going for a run immediately afterwards, yeah, not gonna help with a crash. But unless you're on a diet, you generally shouldn't have much trouble exercising with a deficit, depending on the level of exercise.

    In the OPs case, he's probably working at a deficit and also running a very great deal. Especially since he's a high performance runner.

    || Flickr — || PSN: EggyToast
  • Delicious SteveDelicious Steve Registered User
    edited October 2009
    Sleep is the time of a day you reserve to let your body rest, I would recommend getting 7-9 hours a night.

    See a doctor about the insomnia, before you see them double check that you aren't eating a big meal right before sleep, anything with excessive caffeine or sugar is also a problem, and don't do any exercise for a few hours before sleep, a hot bath/shower might also relax you.

    In the mean-time, when you're laying down and can't fall asleep, stay there, at least your body is resting, even if your brain is still active.

  • TiBTiB Registered User
    edited October 2009
    It is not a matter of training right as it is recovering right.

    Sleep, nutrition, and stretching dude. If you aren't doing all three you are going to break something or slow down

    SatW.jpg
  • PixelMonkeyPixelMonkey Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    EggyToast wrote: »
    I do not train at your level, but I do train. I just finished a century ride last weekend (100 miles on a bike), and my wife and I trained for it beforehand. We have a good trail nearby that's about 10 miles, so we'd go around that 4-6 times on a weekend.

    The difference between just having a bigger breakfast was huge. The first time we did 50 miles around, we had a bowl of cereal for breakfast. Around mile 20, we were crashing, hardcore -- fatigue everywhere, feeling beat up, and of course slowing down. We chowed down on some bars and were able to finish 43 miles. Next day we were achy and feeling beat up.

    The next time, we ate a big pancake breakfast, consuming probably 800 calories. We then did 60 miles EASY, having a granola bar every loop after the first 2 loops. The difference between working with a calorie surplus (which you are then using) vs working with a calorie deficit is significant. And you can't just starve and then eat, because your body will start to consume your muscle mass if you're starving -- even if you don't feel like you're starving when you skip breakfast & lunch.

    In addition, yes, a lack of sleep will certainly affect your performance, as sleep is one of the main times where your muscles recoup. You're basically trying to run "on empty."

    How much time are you supposed to put between eating a big breakfast and exercising?

    Generally I try to give an an hour to an hour and a half an after eating a meal, that way I don't feeling like I'm going to hurl what I've just eaten.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • PixelMonkeyPixelMonkey Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    RUNN1NGMAN wrote: »
    RUNN1NGMAN wrote: »
    Are you a track superstar or something? I ask because 3:15 min/km (5:12 min/mi) is really fast for a normal run if you're not doing some sort of speed training. You may just be burning yourself out big time (which may also explain the sleep problems and stress).

    Or are you talking about race time? Most people aren't going to run anywhere close to that fast unless they are in a race or training for one.

    Could you put into context how you're running? Is this like in a 5K, or running repeats?

    Well lets see I'm one of the top runners in my age group for Western Australia, though other guys around my age do 5km or 10 km while I tend to focus on 10 km, half marathons or full marathons so I usually get beaten on the shorter stuff . Before the problems I could keep a 3min 15sec or 3min 20 sec pace for those events without much worries if I prepared properly and tampered correctly.

    For one of my speed sessions of six reps of 1000 meters with one minute in between. Before the problems I was doing 3 mins 5 secounds or under three minutes if I got lucky.

    Ok, that helps :)

    So you're obviously not some overzealous person who thinks "going for a run" means running as hard as you can until you can't run any more (trust me, I've met people like that).

    I'd say the lack of sleep is definitely affecting you, and because you're not getting enough rest (not even close to enough) you may be suffering from over-training, which will compound the fatigue and lack of speed.

    What's your training cycle like? Do you weave in a lighter week every 3 weeks or so? Do you have a coach, and if so what does he or she think? When you're training at that level, any tiny variation from what's optimal for you can really throw things off.
    Normal Training Week
    Sunday: 25km Hard session or Race if there's an event on.
    Monday: 13km Moderate to Hard (depending how I feel).
    Tuesday: The 6 1km rep I mentioned.
    Wednesday: Same as Monday but more hill work involved in the course.
    Thursday: 42 min fartlek 2 min fast I minute slow.
    Friday: 9 six hundred meter sprints with 30 second rests between each one.
    Saturday: 15 min light run or nothing.

    Tamper before race training week
    Sunday: 10 km light
    Monday: 5 km light
    Tuesday: Three I km reps at a moderate pace.
    Wednesday: 5 to 10 km light or nothing.
    Thursday:Nothing
    Fri:Nothing
    Sat:Nothing

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • MetalbourneMetalbourne Tube's Favorite Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Cognisseur wrote: »
    short answer: yes

    long answer: yyyyyyyeeeeeesssssssss


    Seriously, how is this one not obvious?

    For that matter, how the hell did you get this fast with no basic understanding of sleep requirements and eating properly?

    Trust me I used to eat properly.

    That's the nature of H/A. Ask a question, get an answer. Then get a tangential answer.

    Seriously, though, you'll need more sleep.

  • PixelMonkeyPixelMonkey Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Cognisseur wrote: »
    short answer: yes

    long answer: yyyyyyyeeeeeesssssssss


    Seriously, how is this one not obvious?

    For that matter, how the hell did you get this fast with no basic understanding of sleep requirements and eating properly?

    Trust me I used to eat properly.

    That's the nature of H/A. Ask a question, get an answer. Then get a tangential answer.

    Seriously, though, you'll need more sleep.

    Unfortunately I can't afford to do that.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Seriously, though, you'll need more sleep.
    Unfortunately I can't afford to do that.
    Then your running is going to suffer.

    At the very least, you need to start eating better.

  • CorvusCorvus Caw? VancouverRegistered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Seriously, though, you'll need more sleep.
    Unfortunately I can't afford to do that.
    Then your running is going to suffer.

    At the very least, you need to start eating better.

    Seems unlikely to happen, since lack of sleep tends to influence people to eat poorly.
    Research subjects who slept only four hours a night for two nights had an 18 per cent decrease in leptin, a hormone that tells the brain there is no need for more food, and a 28 per cent increase in ghrelin, a hormone that triggers hunger. "It provides biochemical evidence connecting the trend toward chronic sleep curtailment to obesity and its consequences, including metabolic syndrome and diabetes," said Eve Van Cauter, professor of medicine at the University of Chicago, in a press release.

    Thats on top of the increased risk of a variety of health problems that not getting enough sleep causes.

    Since the OP mentions taking an anxiety medication, he should speak to his health care professional about his lack of sleep, perhaps he can get switched to a different medication or they can suggest some behaviour changes to get the appropriate amount of sleep.

    Four hours of sleep isn't enough for your average person, let alone a high performance athlete. Pixel, you need to treat the problem or your running and your health is going to suffer. I'd suggest you talk to your doctor about it. This isn't to suggest that you should go on sleeping pills or anything, but your doc or whoever is prescribing your anxiety meds should be made aware of your problem so you can fix it.

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