This is a fairly old post, but relevant.
Feel free to ask any questions to people like Wavechaser, and the like. I don't play WoW anymore.
This is not an end all post, I do not think I can make it as such. I just want to give you a broad overview.
Why would I make a rogue?
Control, damage, and a fantastic world PvP class. Ganking some feral druid who thinks he's badass when he as 15% hp is excellent. Bypassing content with a friendly druid who thinks your ass is cute is also quite fun.
If I want damage, I'd play a mage
Perhaps, but the damage a rogue offers is fun on demand burst damage so much so that it can become something you can rely on. Also, it's more fun then standing back spamming fireball. PVP is even more fun with as many tricks and aces a rogue has.
You can't gank in the expansion, people have like 10,000hp
You'll still be able to dish out some mean ganking damage. And abuse improved sap, which has been increased to 100% for 2 points. You'll be hard pessed to find a reason to not get it, unless you really like burning blinding powder faster than Azou goes through Big Macs.
You still haven't sold me, but fine, I bite. Tell me, what should I use for leveling?
All joking aside, you can really level anyway you want. From experience though, I'd shoot for your 31 point talent as quick as possible and get a nice pair of swords. You can actually go from a Wingblade to a Outlaw Sabre to a Jade Broadsword and Sword of Omen to a Vanquisher's sword to a Thrash Blade to Dal' Rends to BC content gear, or old MC style stuff. Swords are fantastic to level with.
What race should I be? undead, right?
Yes. Cannibilize reduces downtime grindng, underwater breathing is fun for escaping players (you'll be doing this a lot) and ganking (Imp sap + gnome + water = hilarity), and WoTF frees up a trinket slot.
But yeah, you can be any race but with the recent nerf to thistle tea, blood elf is looking pretty hot, too. But I like undead, even if we wear socks to war.
Explain to me the trees, because I am horrible
Assassination is something to make your finishers deadlier with stuff to generally increase your yellow damage's potential, be it combo point generation (Seal Fate, Mutilate) or increased damage (Imp Evis, Imp Kidney shot, Find Weakness)
Combat is basically white damage and energy management. Making things cost less energy, do more damage, and add to a weird tempo of energy (Combat potency, Adrenaline rush), or adding to your white AND yellow abilities potency, like, +to hit, + to offhand damage, +parry, +dodge, etc.
Subtlety is the utility and opener tree. It doesn't offer a lot of extra damage like Assassination or Combat does, so it also offers things to overall and boradly increase your damage. Deadliness, Sinister Calling, Shadowstep, all amazing talents. In a 20ass/0cbt/41Sub build, your damage will not be lacking, and your opening combo point generation will be fantastic. You will, by far, have your first 5 combo points faster than any build that doesn't go at least 30 points into subtlety, and usually those are the most important.
These are just overviews, if you have questions, I'll gladly answer them and update this guide.
You're a fag. How are rogues in PvP? I hear they bitch a lot.
Each spec you play with is different. With hemo, you'll have an astounding amount of control and reasonable damage and fantastic combo point generation, allowing for multiple finishers per fight.
With full combat, you will be more deadly out of stealth and be just a walking force to be reckoned with. Melee will cry, casters will bitch, and warlocks will post on forums about how you killed them in a stunlock.
With any dagger build, your modem will be your best friend, alongside crippling poison. A good ping and crippling are usually required for daggers, which explains the reasoning behind mutilate (a tad) REWARDING the player for doing something he'd ordinarily do.
The best build is the most fun build, and whichever you decide is a fun build is the best build. Personally, however, I am in a toss up between 31/0/30 and 30/0/31 - a 20 energy cheap shot (basically), or 5 combo points immediately is a tough decision for me.
The rogues that bitch a lot suffer delusions induced by a lack of available cooldowns, or are just not that great at the class, or are good at understanding what they need to do but their micromanagement is horrible.
There are just some classes, too, that are just insane to fight as certain specs. A combat rogue (exluding daggers) might not fare so well against a frost mage willing to burn cold snap, but will be far more comfortable taking on that warrior with 10,000 hp.
Some good tips for using daggers
In a situation where he's crippled and you're not, run/jump through him. Don't dick around running around him, that takes time and could have you running around with full energy like an asshole for awhile.
When you're crippled and he's not, blind or vanish, depending on the fight.
I will go into class versus class details in this thread, but that task is gigantic.
I want more general tips, you convulsing asstard.
All I really know is that nova = blind. feared? break and blind before you eat an intercept. NS heal to full? Kill his faggy poison cleansing totem and searing totem and blind + bandage. Rogue open on you, but suck at stunlock? Blind. Druid runs into caster form and not cast abolish poison on himself? You get the picture. It's a way to get them to stay the fuck still. All your fearsome damage is done up close. Just need to use some control and know your energy.
Do not kidney shot if below 30/20 energy unless you have some way of getting back a good chunk of that energy. Use your energy ticks of timing for when your stun will run out. Use StunWatch if you're lazy.
Restealth when you can.
You need +10 energy in some manner or form if you want to truly stunlock. vigor, 1/2 dirty deeds, NS 5 piece bonus. use blind as a link between CS and gouge diminishing returns. An epic stunlock will, on live, do a LOT of damage. Level 63 rogues are able to 100->0 (Stunlock someone from full HP to no HP without them getting a shot in) by abusing blind.
You can get blinding powder and other poison stuff from junkboxes off of humanoid mobs.
Engineering is also amazing to link stunlocks, stop runners, and all around just a fun rogue profession.
More tips to be added as this is just going as a flow.
This isn't going anywhere, you should've had some outline
Yeah, well, you're a dick. I need you to ask questions and inspire me to put more stuff in the guide after going over with you personally about it.
Well, asshead, okay. If I do raid, what kind of shit can I expect?
What a wonderful question, I'll let one of those gays answer it for you.
Originally typed by that douchebag Unai
Well, unfortunately, Blizzard has decided to continue the trend of tier 4 to tier 5 by making every single class except for warlocks gheyer than tree droods (and making druids even gayer)How is that even possible? -Tyr.
The rogue tier 5 can only be described by a cross between Shredder from Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and a slightly more chubby and flamboyant Skeletor from He-man. Also, blizzard hates Undead Rogues so they will continue to wear socks. Enjoy your future raiding rogue!
TO BE CONTINUED
Questions and answers
As you see it, would the ZG trinket make up the diff between a BE and a UD? Since the UD would have a free spot because of WoTF.
Both TT and the Trinket are nerfed. DEE COLON.
Certainly both are races that most casters will moan and complan about. It doesn't really answer your question, but know that I've broken fear and seduce a LOT and use cannabilize all the time. I'd say the diff between a BE and an UD is what classes they'll do well against.
Ive heard people say fists are better DPS than swords for combat. Your opinion? Also Maces yea or neah?
I've heard this spread about as common knowledge, but as I see it, it's just as good. An offhand sword can proc a MH spec. But, it resets the swing timer for the main hand. But, the neat thing I think is that, instead of attacking 1.0 seconds later, you attack that very second. It still gives you more hits than you would get with a fist-spec, although with the scaling down of crit gear, the +5 crit is going to be nice for raiding. The only way to check is to do some crazy math I'm not ready for yet. But with a Hand of Justice and sword spec, a GM quickblade and a nice MH sword and windfury, you'll just be OOZING white damage.
Maces are alright, they're not as bad as people say they are but mace spec is kinda on and off. It offers not really anything in terms of raiding anymore, even with the talent being merged into its own form of Weapon Expertise. And, as Jelu mentions, Fist spec is usually amazing, but I find that pure, unadulterated damage comes in the form of combat daggers. I look at other guild's damage meters and using their CD rogue is on top of the other rogues, but I'm sure someone in the thread will note some other anecdoctal evidence to claim otherwise.
As a combat rogue what kind of gear would I be looking for? Would it be different from a dagger rogues? same question visa-versa?
Whore your AP and hit. You want at least 12% before you go with crit. AP adds to all your damage, yellow and white. AP and hit with a bit of crit. You want a good balance of crit and hit and AP because a non-crit backstab for 700 will be better than a critical backstab of 1000.
Remember, a non-crit backstab is worse for you to get than a dodged backstab, which was the misinformed gripe about surprise attacks. As it was, people assumed a 1 tiered hit/crit/dodge thing. If it was dodged, then SA would say it hit, therefore it couldn't crit. But that's not how it works. It’s a two tiered system. It was a fine talent, but it’s still pretty good now.
is imp expose armor worth it? explain why?
Fuck yes, think of expose armor (improved) as a 35% increase in all damage done to the target as long as the debuff is there. It's necessary to dps down a holy priest obsessed with healing and getting through the mitigation of a shadow priest, for burning down a shaman or paladin, and just generally a fun little insult to use on mages.
Premed-CS->Expose->Gouge/Blind->Shadowstep->Ambush is a FUCKTON of protential damage.
Which is better DPS Shiv or Sinister Strike?
Hopefully I can be shed some more light on this but as it seems in a 41 talent point combat build, as long as you have a quick offhand and LOTS of poison and vile poison, shiv'll out damage SS. Why? Because shiv is yellow damage, so it has to be normalized, and it's normalized at 2.4 for AP. Also, it'll instaly apply your gay old instant poison. It really excells at high armor targets (dur, poison > armor), and adds combo points and costs less energy than SS, so even on low armor targets, the combo point gen from shiv'll make up for SS. I'm sure they'll do something to change it, but still, it's nice.
You said engineering is a good profession for rogues would you recommend any others considering the info youve collected in the beta.
Weaponsmithing for instance. being able to make and use those sick maces or swords. or Tailoring nets, jewelcrafting trinkets, etc.
Sure. There's a ton of options now and for me to suggest one would be presumptuous of how I think you should spend your money.
in reference to Azou's dumbassery
YOU ARE SO FUCKING WRONG!
But a lot of people misunderstand how the dual wield penalty works. If you dual wield, you have only an 85% chance to hit with both the mainhand and offhand before talents and gear. Your offhand also suffers a -50% to damage before talents. +15% to hit will allow you to attack a mob your same level and never miss with white damage. +23.9% hit will allow you to attack a level 63 mob and never miss with white damage. +5% will allow you to attack a mob your same level and never miss with yellow damage.
Over 50% of a rogues damage comes from white hits which is why PvE rogues enjoy stacking so much hit instead of crit.
With ordinary auto-attack ("white damage") weapon strikes, Dual Wielding adds an additional 19% to the attacker's miss rate. This penalty applies both to auto-attack strikes with the off-hand weapon and to auto-attack strikes with the main hand weapon. Since the base miss rate of all characters is 5%, dual-wielding will increase your miss rate to 24%(19%+5%).
(This applies when the target's Defense skill equals the attacker's weapon skill. For each point the target's Defense skill exceeds the attacker's weapon skill, the miss chance increases by 0.04%. For each point the attacker's Weapon skill exceeds the target's Defense skill, the miss chance decreases by 0.04%. See Formulas:Weapon Skill.)
Important note: Prior to version 1.8, dual wield's miss chance had a hard cap of 19%, meaning that all dual-wield auto-attacks had a minimum 19% miss chance regardless of how much +hit% gear was equipped. In version 1.8, this hard cap was removed. The exact wording of the 1.8 patch note was:
"Items which provide +hit chance will now be allowed to counteract the increased miss chance penalty of dual-wielding."
Take a rogue for example vs. a 63 monster, he has 5%+(0.04%*15)= 5.6% base miss chance (assuming he has 300 weapon skill and the monster has no special internal Defense skill bonuses), plus 19% dual wield miss chance, leaving us with a total miss chance of 24.6%.
Note that the +19% miss chance for dual-wielding only applies to ordinary auto-attack melee attacks. It does not apply to any special attack powers that cost rage, energy, or mana -- neither instant attacks such as Sinister Strike, nor on next swing attacks such as Heroic Strike, incur the dual wield miss penalty. So, with 6% +hit from gear/talents a dual-wielder will never miss with an instant attack (although the attack can still be dodged, parried, or blocked -- see the Attack table article). However, a dual-wielder would need 25% +hit if he wants to remove the miss chance for auto-attack/white damage totally.
Hey, look, shit about hitting and missing! Not sure if it's accurate, but...
I'm still bad! Your guide fucking sucks!
Watch some rogue videos, if you can find Ming's stuff, those are good.
Unsouled's videos are fantastic, and Nerf Sap 8 is good as well.
Give me some links, you talking red baboon-ass.
FINE. FINE. FUCK YOU.
Theorycraft for rogues. Updates regularly, but not daily.
Arrogant rogue, but useful. Offers in depth talent guides.
Incldues FR gear, NR gear, anything and a method of comparing gear, in case you can't decide if you like stormshroud over devilsaur.