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Knights of the Old Republic - contains a metric ton of unmarked spoilers

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Posts

  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    Seriously guys, it's pre-beta marketing. Of course they're not going to say "we'll incorporate a number of mechanics of other successful MMOs."

    Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
    gkcmatch_zps97480250.jpg
    the youngsters who were programmed to continue fucking up woke up one night
    digging Paul Revere and Nat Turner as the good guys
  • HenroidHenroid Nobody Nowhere fastRegistered User regular
    edited November 2009
    Okay but there's fucking footage and proof of this shit.

    Henroid on
    "Ultima Online Pre-Trammel is the perfect example of why libertarians are full of shit."
    - @Ludious
    PA Lets Play Archive - Twitter - Blog (6/15/14)
  • BlackDoveBlackDove Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    Ehh, TOR definitely isn't a KOTOR 3.

    Since it takes place some hundred years after KOTOR 2, it might as well play ten thousand years before KOTOR 1 or after KOTOR 2.

    It's its own story, they distanced from the first two games enough so that they don't have to reference anything.

    BlackDove on
  • HenroidHenroid Nobody Nowhere fastRegistered User regular
    edited November 2009
    BlackDove wrote: »
    Ehh, TOR definitely isn't a KOTOR 3.

    Since it takes place some hundred years after KOTOR 2, it might as well play ten thousand years before KOTOR 1 or after KOTOR 2.

    It's its own story, they distanced from the first two games enough so that they don't have to reference anything.

    Well, they could reference general plot points they probably had planned for part 3, or the overall story people pieced together from what the KotOR trilogy was gonna be.

    Henroid on
    "Ultima Online Pre-Trammel is the perfect example of why libertarians are full of shit."
    - @Ludious
    PA Lets Play Archive - Twitter - Blog (6/15/14)
  • DarkWarriorDarkWarrior __BANNED USERS
    edited December 2009
    I think what you consider underdeveloped is just subtlety.

    Its easy enough to figure out that Handmaiden is Kreia's daughter for example if you look at whats presented. It just isn't smacked into your face like the fact you're really Revan.

    DarkWarrior on
    ...it's in the shape of a giant c**k.
  • Zetetic ElenchZetetic Elench Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    jdarksun wrote: »
    jdarksun wrote: »
    Revan was an interesting character before he was betrayed by his apprentice, and his story of revenge and redemption has meat to it.
    Look, it's a delightfully epic story structure, and it was awesome for what it wanted to do, but let's not pretend there's any real depth or exploration of the relationship between the two or anything. And let's be honest, even in KotOR 1 Malak comes across as a bit of a dipstick.
    They spend a good bit of the story talking about the relationship between Revan and Malak.

    Not sure I'd call Malak a dipstick so much as willing to leverage firepower according to the threat.

    His personality consisted entirely of "I CRUSH YOU". You didn't even get the sense he wanted to do anything with the galaxy once he conquered it. He was a dipstick.
    Lack of personality? He's what you make of him,
    Yeah, excuse me if I'd rather have an actual, crafted story rather than play with dolls.

    I've had enough of characters whose personalities have been deliberately bleached so that I can pretend they actually have one. The idea strikes me as a little absurd.
    It's the difference between actually engaging in roleplaying and having a story read to you. Being able to craft my own character is something I value in Western RPGs.

    Misleading. It's a gradient. At one extreme, you're making up almost the entire story yourself. At the other, Final Fantasy.

    KotOR 2 hit the balance better for me than the original. The original's Revan was void of any interesting character no matter what dialogue you chose. Puppy kicker or naive pushover, the net result was the same: Revan had no defining qualities except in flashbacks, when he was essentially a different character anyway. So you'd have to imagine him actually having some.

    In KotOR 2, the puppykicker/doormat dynamic was still hanging around, but the Exile had a role, a past and a purpose that pushed beyond what KotOR 1 was willing to pin down to Revan. He discovered more than one thing about himself and he had an actual character arc. And yet there were more than just a couple distinct personalities you could take in each situation - there was greater variety and intelligence behind the dialogue responses you could choose, and you could actually hit some nuance now and then. You even got to explain your motivation. I've yet to see a game best it on that front. He was a role, but there were a lot of different ways you could play him.
    Yes, okay. I'm just going to let this one stand on its own. And then collapse under the weight of its own ridiculousness.

    When you're ready to make a criticism that doesn't sound, ironically, like it was written by a sixteen year old girl, I'll have more of a response.
    argumentpyramid.jpg

    I'd agree, but I honestly don't know what to do with your original quote. It's divorced from my experience with the game to the extent that at a couple of parts I'm not 100% sure which plot point you're talking about.
    The Exile is a whiny emo bitch who lets herself be lead around by an obviously self-serving Sith Lord. She runs away from her problems to go mope instead of facing them, and rightly gets her ass kicked because of it. That she survives at all is because of the intervention of the aforementioned Sith, who has to hold the Exile's hand and blow her nose for her until she remembers how to be a Real Girl. When she is then "betrayed" (insomuch as the obvious happens) by the mustache-twirling supervillain, it more closely resembles the revenge fantasy of a 16 year old girl whose daddy won't let her have her own car ("If I can't drive, then no one will!").

    It just seems a silly and obvious distortion.
    Now let's look at the interesting companion characters.
    Wow, you didn't even select the same number from each side.
    Bolded the important part.

    That's fair enough, though obviously I disagree.
    And KotOR 2 also had Atton, Handmaiden, G0-T0, T3, and HK-47. Yeah, two of those were in the original, but that's fine, because they're an absolute blast in this one.
    Brianna's presentation in-game was flat. She and G0-T0 suffered heavily from cut content, never really being given a chance to shine or have their stories go anywhere. Behind the scenes, sure, the Last Handmaiden has some cool traits. But G0-T0? Just a neat idea they never went anywhere with.

    ...I'll grant you that they did some great things with HK, and I should have included him. But T3? He's just part of the scenery.

    Nonsense, T3 is awesome in KotOR 2.

    I actually found Visas much flatter than Handmaiden. I enjoyed having Brianna around, Visas not so much.

    G0-T0 has some brilliant lines if you bring him along, and frankly the whole dynamic in the ship cutscenes between him, HK, T3, and Bao-Dur's remote is a ton of fun.

    Zetetic Elench on
    nemosig.png
  • Zetetic ElenchZetetic Elench Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    jdarksun wrote: »
    I think what you consider underdeveloped is just subtlety.

    Its easy enough to figure out that Handmaiden is Kreia's daughter for example if you look at whats presented. It just isn't smacked into your face like the fact you're really Revan.
    Yeah... considering that there's no indication that Kreia is actually Arren Kae (Brianna's mother), I'm going to go ahead and disagree with you.

    Well, it doesn't come outright and say it. But indications? Hell yes. I mean, Disciple lists Kae as one of Revan's former masters who left the order to fight in the Mandalorian wars. Kreia is a former master of Revan's who left the order to fight in the Mandalorian wars.

    There are others, but that's the strongest one for me.

    Zetetic Elench on
    nemosig.png
  • Walrus PeteWalrus Pete Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    jdarksun wrote: »
    I think what you consider underdeveloped is just subtlety.

    Its easy enough to figure out that Handmaiden is Kreia's daughter for example if you look at whats presented. It just isn't smacked into your face like the fact you're really Revan.
    Yeah... considering that there's no indication that Kreia is actually Arren Kae (Brianna's mother), I'm going to go ahead and disagree with you.

    Well, it doesn't come outright and say it. But indications? Hell yes. I mean, Disciple lists Kae as one of Revan's former masters who left the order to fight in the Mandalorian wars. Kreia is a former master of Revan's who left the order to fight in the Mandalorian wars.

    There are others, but that's the strongest one for me.

    There's also the fact that Kreia without her hood looks an awful lot like an older Handmaiden. (http://lparchive.org/LetsPlay/KOTOR%202/Update%2058/img-31.jpg)

    Walrus Pete on
  • PolloDiabloPolloDiablo Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    jdarksun wrote: »
    I think what you consider underdeveloped is just subtlety.

    Its easy enough to figure out that Handmaiden is Kreia's daughter for example if you look at whats presented. It just isn't smacked into your face like the fact you're really Revan.
    Yeah... considering that there's no indication that Kreia is actually Arren Kae (Brianna's mother), I'm going to go ahead and disagree with you.

    Well, it doesn't come outright and say it. But indications? Hell yes. I mean, Disciple lists Kae as one of Revan's former masters who left the order to fight in the Mandalorian wars. Kreia is a former master of Revan's who left the order to fight in the Mandalorian wars.

    There are others, but that's the strongest one for me.

    There's also the fact that Kreia without her hood looks an awful lot like an older Handmaiden. (http://lparchive.org/LetsPlay/KOTOR%202/Update%2058/img-31.jpg)

    The question is did that shot exist in the game, or was that cut content?

    PolloDiablo on
    Be excellent to each other you stupid cunts.
  • SpoitSpoit *twitch twitch* Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    Wait, there are actually people that say that the NPCs are better in 1 than 2? o_O

    And for that matter, there's far more reactivity to your choices (ie roleplaying as opposed to just reading a book) in the Dantooine scene in kotor2 than there is about the big reveal in 1

    Spoit on
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  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    edited December 2009
    jdarksun wrote: »
    I think what you consider underdeveloped is just subtlety.

    Its easy enough to figure out that Handmaiden is Kreia's daughter for example if you look at whats presented. It just isn't smacked into your face like the fact you're really Revan.
    Yeah... considering that there's no indication that Kreia is actually Arren Kae (Brianna's mother), I'm going to go ahead and disagree with you.

    Well, it doesn't come outright and say it. But indications? Hell yes. I mean, Disciple lists Kae as one of Revan's former masters who left the order to fight in the Mandalorian wars. Kreia is a former master of Revan's who left the order to fight in the Mandalorian wars.

    There are others, but that's the strongest one for me.

    There's also the fact that Kreia without her hood looks an awful lot like an older Handmaiden. (http://lparchive.org/LetsPlay/KOTOR%202/Update%2058/img-31.jpg)

    The question is did that shot exist in the game, or was that cut content?

    It was never in the game, whether it was intended or not... So you can't officially use material that was cut as if it proved anything.

    Santa Claustrophobia on
  • Zetetic ElenchZetetic Elench Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    jdarksun wrote: »
    jdarksun wrote: »
    Yeah... considering that there's no indication that Kreia is actually Arren Kae (Brianna's mother), I'm going to go ahead and disagree with you.
    Well, it doesn't come outright and say it. But indications? Hell yes. I mean, Disciple lists Kae as one of Revan's former masters who left the order to fight in the Mandalorian wars. Kreia is a former master of Revan's who left the order to fight in the Mandalorian wars.

    There are others, but that's the strongest one for me.
    So a coincidence is a strong indication for you?

    Someone actually wrote this. This is fiction. Scenes have purposes and we are given information for a reason. When Disciple lists the notable masters Revan had he places extra emphasis on Arren Kae by adding the extra information about her leaving to fight in the Mandalorian wars. This is deliberate. When we are told Revan went back to Kreia to understand how best to leave the Jedi Order, this is also deliberate. When the council mentions that Kreia left to fight the Mandalorian wars, this is also deliberate.

    Avellone's unofficially confirmed it, so all we're arguing about right now is whether enough information was woven into the game to reach that conclusion. I say yes. Your mileage may vary.

    Zetetic Elench on
    nemosig.png
  • PolloDiabloPolloDiablo Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    jdarksun wrote: »
    I think what you consider underdeveloped is just subtlety.

    Its easy enough to figure out that Handmaiden is Kreia's daughter for example if you look at whats presented. It just isn't smacked into your face like the fact you're really Revan.
    Yeah... considering that there's no indication that Kreia is actually Arren Kae (Brianna's mother), I'm going to go ahead and disagree with you.

    Well, it doesn't come outright and say it. But indications? Hell yes. I mean, Disciple lists Kae as one of Revan's former masters who left the order to fight in the Mandalorian wars. Kreia is a former master of Revan's who left the order to fight in the Mandalorian wars.

    There are others, but that's the strongest one for me.

    There's also the fact that Kreia without her hood looks an awful lot like an older Handmaiden. (http://lparchive.org/LetsPlay/KOTOR%202/Update%2058/img-31.jpg)

    The question is did that shot exist in the game, or was that cut content?

    It was never in the game, whether it was intended or not... So you can't officially use material that was cut as if it proved anything.

    Exactly. I think people who like KotOR2 are fans of the game Obsidian almost made, not the game they actually made.

    PolloDiablo on
    Be excellent to each other you stupid cunts.
  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    edited December 2009
    The SA Let's Play, while entertaining, is probably doing the most harm to KOTOR2. Especially since it's technically not 'canon' and refers constantly to content that was not originally released nor officially patched in later.

    Santa Claustrophobia on
  • SpoitSpoit *twitch twitch* Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    Even ignoring everything else, kotor2 is superior for the simple fact that it's actually playable on the PC. Ie, you don't have to try to hit 20x10 pixel arrows every few seconds.

    Spoit on
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  • Zetetic ElenchZetetic Elench Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    Exactly. I think people who like KotOR2 are fans of the game Obsidian almost made, not the game they actually made.

    This comes up a lot. It's an attempt to poo-poo KotOR2 fans as people who are imagining half the things they like about the game. It's nonsense.

    A game doesn't need to be perfect or finished to be enjoyed and loved.

    I played KotOR2 when it came out. I played it on the Xbox. I liked it a lot. I enjoyed the story and I enjoyed the writing and I enjoyed the settings and the way the plot unfolded. I did this without knowledge of any cut content whatsoever. My favourite scenes are right there on that Xbox release DVD.

    Zetetic Elench on
    nemosig.png
  • MongerMonger I got the ham stink. Dallas, TXRegistered User regular
    edited December 2009
    Exactly. I think people who like KotOR2 are fans of the game Obsidian almost made, not the game they actually made.

    This comes up a lot. It's an attempt to poo-poo KotOR2 fans as people who are imagining half the things they like about the game. It's nonsense.

    A game doesn't need to be perfect or finished to be enjoyed and loved.

    I played KotOR2 when it came out. I played it on the Xbox. I liked it a lot. I enjoyed the story and I enjoyed the writing and I enjoyed the settings and the way the plot unfolded. I did this without knowledge of any cut content whatsoever. My favourite scenes are right there on that Xbox release DVD.
    When I was midway through the harbinger on my first playthrough, I realized I was more engaged in the story that almost any other game I'd ever played. When I finished it the first time, I immediately started up another game to see the choices I hadn't made. Cut content came later.

    If we're making broad, sweeping generalizations here, I think a lot of people let their issues with the ending sour them on the wonderful ride that got them there.

    Monger on
  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    The fact that kotor remains as popular as it is in spite of it's issues is a testament to how good a game it is.

    Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
    gkcmatch_zps97480250.jpg
    the youngsters who were programmed to continue fucking up woke up one night
    digging Paul Revere and Nat Turner as the good guys
  • TubeTube Administrator, ClubPA admin
    edited December 2009
    I would be very, very surprised if all of the hints that Kreia is Arren Kae are pure coincidence and the writers had no idea that it would be interpreted that way. Is there enough room to say "no she isn't"? Sure. But the intention was definitely there to have it as a theory.

    Tube on
  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    yeah, I didn't even realize that was disagreed on anymore

    Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
    gkcmatch_zps97480250.jpg
    the youngsters who were programmed to continue fucking up woke up one night
    digging Paul Revere and Nat Turner as the good guys
  • LitanyLitany Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    Spoit wrote: »
    Even ignoring everything else, kotor2 is superior for the simple fact that it's actually playable on the PC. Ie, you don't have to try to hit 20x10 pixel arrows every few seconds.

    I'm going to assume you're talking about Force / Skill / Item selection on the main screen. Of which you can use a mouse wheel to scroll up and down the list(s). It's not the greatest interface, but it's certainly not unplayable by any stretch of the imagination.

    Litany on
    Steam: Litany || PSN: Litany- || Nintendo Network ID: Litany
  • HenroidHenroid Nobody Nowhere fastRegistered User regular
    edited December 2009
    My least favorite thing about KotOR 1 on the PC is that the menu screens don't adjust to your chosen resolution - instead, they get smaller and smaller because they're a set size and the border graphic around them gets bigger and bigger. This wouldn't be much of an issue if going into those menus wasn't a frequent thing, which they are.

    Henroid on
    "Ultima Online Pre-Trammel is the perfect example of why libertarians are full of shit."
    - @Ludious
    PA Lets Play Archive - Twitter - Blog (6/15/14)
  • pyromaniac221pyromaniac221 this just might be an interestin YTRegistered User regular
    edited December 2009
    So I'm trying to adjust KOTOR to accept widescreen resolutions, but widescreengaming.net told me that I could run into some issues since I have the Steam version. Has anyone with the Steam version had problems, or is it basically exactly like the disc version?

    pyromaniac221 on
    play me in hearthstone: abstrakt11#1365 PSN: tooaware
  • MongerMonger I got the ham stink. Dallas, TXRegistered User regular
    edited December 2009
    So I'm trying to adjust KOTOR to accept widescreen resolutions, but widescreengaming.net told me that I could run into some issues since I have the Steam version. Has anyone with the Steam version had problems, or is it basically exactly like the disc version?
    Widescreen Gaming Forum has full instructions for the workaround for getting the Steam version working.

    Monger on
  • pyromaniac221pyromaniac221 this just might be an interestin YTRegistered User regular
    edited December 2009
    Strange, it's not actually working for me. The Universal Widescreen Patcher won't let me enter a new resolution, and it just crashes when I tell it to "Find it for me."

    Also, it said something about violated the terms of use with steam. Is that bad?

    pyromaniac221 on
    play me in hearthstone: abstrakt11#1365 PSN: tooaware
  • MongerMonger I got the ham stink. Dallas, TXRegistered User regular
    edited December 2009
    I didn't have a problem with it in any way when I did it.

    You hunted down the correct thing that it told you to hunt down, right?

    edit: And you're not trying to patch the exe Steam downloaded, right?

    Monger on
  • akesoakeso Registered User
    edited January 2011
    So I've decided to pick this game up again after it went on sale via steam.
    At the same time, I was hoping to see if any good solid mods had appeared on the PC version over my old Xbox copy.

    Anyone have any advice for mods I should download?

    akeso on
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  • Professor SnugglesworthProfessor Snugglesworth Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Okay, so for KOTOR1, is there any way to compare equipment in shops to what you're currently wearing? I can't see any way of finding out whether a weapon or armor piece is better than what I already have.

    Professor Snugglesworth on
  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    edited January 2011
    You could take notes.

    Santa Claustrophobia on
  • manwiththemachinegunmanwiththemachinegun METAL GEAR?! Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Okay, so for KOTOR1, is there any way to compare equipment in shops to what you're currently wearing? I can't see any way of finding out whether a weapon or armor piece is better than what I already have.

    With a few exceptions, you're better off with quest items/chests than purchasing stuff from stores. The only really useful things are a few implants. Now, if you have the PC version, basically everything at Yavin 4 is beyond godly. You can seriously, seriously own.

    With the Bagaran repeater, Bendek's blaster and Fett's pistol. I took HK-47 and Carth with me on the Star Forge. With rapid fire, they scythed down pretty much every Sith in the place with only Revan acting as melee.

    manwiththemachinegun on
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