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World Bore II

2

Posts

  • jothkijothki Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    Raslin wrote: »
    I think a good part of the reason that WWII FPSs are getting old, is because of the story. We get it. Storming this beach. Defending this town. Killing hitler. We know.

    Good multiplayer WWIIFPSs aren't as bad, because you aren't barraged with story. Look at Forgotten Hope, or Red Orchestra. You pretty much just get to the shooty-shooty. A few nameless towns to defend, with one important one, usually. What I think the genre needs is more open-ended WW2 FPSs. Less story, more running around and doing shit. Playing a game as a French resistance troop, or Russian partisan, or Volksjaeger. Something where you can do stuff pretty much independantly, though missions are available to you if you so choose.

    The new medal of honor for PS3/X360 seems to be headed in this direction. You choose where to drop, enemies dynamically choose where and how to face you, etc. I think the main thing is getting rid of the story, as we all know it already, and getting down to some more hardcore gameplay.

    There is that WWII MMORPG.

  • WrenWren Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    I really like BF1942 and DoD too, but online FPSs can be good for totally different reasons than single player ones.

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  • RaslinRaslin Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    jothki wrote: »
    Raslin wrote: »
    I think a good part of the reason that WWII FPSs are getting old, is because of the story. We get it. Storming this beach. Defending this town. Killing hitler. We know.

    Good multiplayer WWIIFPSs aren't as bad, because you aren't barraged with story. Look at Forgotten Hope, or Red Orchestra. You pretty much just get to the shooty-shooty. A few nameless towns to defend, with one important one, usually. What I think the genre needs is more open-ended WW2 FPSs. Less story, more running around and doing shit. Playing a game as a French resistance troop, or Russian partisan, or Volksjaeger. Something where you can do stuff pretty much independantly, though missions are available to you if you so choose.

    The new medal of honor for PS3/X360 seems to be headed in this direction. You choose where to drop, enemies dynamically choose where and how to face you, etc. I think the main thing is getting rid of the story, as we all know it already, and getting down to some more hardcore gameplay.

    There is that WWII MMORPG.

    No, theres a WWII MMOFPS. And I won't get into its vast problems, etc, as someone who's played for years, on and off of course.

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  • The TommyThe Tommy Registered User
    edited April 2007
    I want a WWII with a really deep story, like, HL2 deep. Characters you give a fuck about. You actually feel like you're doing something. Not "rescue this guy he is an important dude for some reason," "take this bridge," etc.

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  • WrenWren Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    the only character I cared about in HL2 was the mad priest. he was crazy awesome.

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  • The_LightbringerThe_Lightbringer Registered User
    edited April 2007
    Am I bad person if I say I want to play as Otto Skorzeny or Hans Ulrich Rudel?

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  • RaslinRaslin Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    I want to play as hitler.

    In ww1.

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  • Zetetic ElenchZetetic Elench Registered User
    edited April 2007
    The Tommy wrote: »
    I want a WWII with a really deep story, like, HL2 deep. Characters you give a fuck about. You actually feel like you're doing something. Not "rescue this guy he is an important dude for some reason," "take this bridge," etc.

    Well, doing that undermines the point of the WWII FPS. The point is so people can shoot enemy guys and not feel like it's a bad thing to do - which is fine, fighting evil and all.

    But the real life situation is that german soldiers weren't by and large evil, they were, sadly, bound by duty and oath to their country's decision to roll over a ton of neighbouring countries.

    If you started pushing for better characterisation, it'd end up being really, really one-sided. I'm not sure I'd prefer to see that. Band of Brothers struck a good balance, though.

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  • WrenWren Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    its not really a WW2 FPS thing to shoot bad guys and not feel bad. vast majority of FPSs have enemy troopers wearing masks or just as being labeled as "terrorists" which is our modern day thing to hate. so even then, these same FPSs can have good character development.

    and also back then and especially in WW1, you joined the army fully knowing you were going to invade and take over a country (or die trying) and subvert it some day. so besides the conscripts, they might not have been evil but they weren't innocent either.

    but on the same note, no soldiers were ever forced to kill any civilians and if they were told to and refused, they would just be transfered elsewhere. there were plenty of sociopaths and criminals to do the dirtywork, it isnt that hard to put them in a uniform. so you certainly weren't killing awful jew killers.

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  • Steel AngelSteel Angel Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    You know, there is that whole other theatre of WWII . . . why hasn't anyone made a game about taking Iwo Jima or something?

    Big Dookie wrote: »
    I found that tilting it doesn't work very well, and once I started jerking it, I got much better results.

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  • Zetetic ElenchZetetic Elench Registered User
    edited April 2007
    Wren wrote: »
    its not really a WW2 FPS thing to shoot bad guys and not feel bad. vast majority of FPSs have enemy troopers wearing masks or just as being labeled as "terrorists" which is our modern day thing to hate. so even then, these same FPSs can have good character development.

    Fair point. I guess I just feel WW2 FPSs take advantage of the "righteous hero" angle more than most.
    Wren wrote: »
    and also back then and especially in WW1, you joined the army fully knowing you were going to invade and take over a country (or die trying) and subvert it some day. so besides the conscripts, they might not have been evil but they weren't innocent either.

    Bad idea to judge people born literally one hundred years ago by today's moral standards. You joined the army fully knowing you were serving your country, and I'm pretty sure a decent amount of recruits in those days were forced into it via poverty.
    Wren wrote: »
    but on the same note, no soldiers were ever forced to kill any civilians and if they were told to and refused, they would just be transfered elsewhere. there were plenty of sociopaths and criminals to do the dirtywork, it isnt that hard to put them in a uniform. so you certainly weren't killing awful jew killers.

    Yup.

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  • WrenWren Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    Wren wrote: »
    and also back then and especially in WW1, you joined the army fully knowing you were going to invade and take over a country (or die trying) and subvert it some day. so besides the conscripts, they might not have been evil but they weren't innocent either.

    Bad idea to judge people born literally one hundred years ago by today's moral standards. You joined the army fully knowing you were serving your country, and I'm pretty sure a decent amount of recruits in those days were forced into it via poverty.

    vast majority of recruiting would be done during the height of the invading though, so it would be "hey cool we can rule the world" that got people to join, although that idea might be there because of a lot of lies and brainwashing I guess but the intent is the same.

    or in even earlier periods of history the invading of other countries was non-stop and you knew you'd be shipped off to invade somewhere else the moment you joined. the military since those times hadn't changed much so it was still the same idea. at least for the older nations like britain, prussia/germany ect.

    really poverty is one reason, but it still doesn't mean they didn't do it because of the others as well. its a good reason but you can't completely write off the others because of it.

    I'm also not really judging, at least not harshly. I mean I'm all for imperialism, I think it was a great way of international natural selection and kept us (or at least the winners) strong and motivated as a whole. I guess this isn't a politically correct view, since we're all supposed to love peace.

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  • The TommyThe Tommy Registered User
    edited April 2007
    The Tommy wrote: »
    I want a WWII with a really deep story, like, HL2 deep. Characters you give a fuck about. You actually feel like you're doing something. Not "rescue this guy he is an important dude for some reason," "take this bridge," etc.
    But the real life situation is that german soldiers weren't by and large evil, they were, sadly, bound by duty and oath to their country's decision to roll over a ton of neighbouring countries.

    That's part of the point. I want you to not want to kill your enemies. I want you to feel bad when one of your comrades dies, beyond yelling out comically "BOOOOMEEER!" I want you to be an actual character.

    You should play as a German soldier, actually. The entire game. Like in HL2, you don't talk, but you run into many people, some of which want to be in the army, some of which don't. You'd see crazy Hitler Youth kids. It'd be an entirely different experience, educational in some ways.

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  • Zetetic ElenchZetetic Elench Registered User
    edited April 2007
    Wren wrote: »
    vast majority of recruiting would be done during the height of the invading though, so it would be "hey cool we can rule the world" that got people to join, although that idea might be there because of a lot of lies and brainwashing I guess but the intent is the same.

    Okay, seriously dodgy ground here. You do understand that they thought they were taking back land that rightfully belonged to Germany, right? That had been "stolen" from them in the treaty of Versailles? It went beyond that, but that was certainly what they'd been told, certainly at the beginning. Look up "Lebensraum" in wikipedia or something.

    edit: Okay, thinking about it, Lebensraum wasn't a good research topic to pick, since that dealt with a different issue.

    Also, you realise that your argument applies equally to the US troops, right?

    Aaaaand... back on topic again.

    Brothers in Arms had some really good music.

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  • Captain KCaptain K Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    We are certainly headed into intellectual territory here. Let's see what happens!

  • WrenWren Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    Wren wrote: »
    vast majority of recruiting would be done during the height of the invading though, so it would be "hey cool we can rule the world" that got people to join, although that idea might be there because of a lot of lies and brainwashing I guess but the intent is the same.

    Okay, seriously dodgy ground here. You do understand that they thought they were taking back land that rightfully belonged to Germany, right? That had been "stolen" from them in the treaty of Versailles? It went beyond that, but that was certainly what they'd been told, certainly at the beginning. Look up "Lebensraum" in wikipedia or something.

    Also, you realise that your argument applies equally to the US troops, right?

    Aaaaand... back on topic again.

    sure, I'm not trying to say who was wrong or right, I'm just saying what is (or more correctly, was). I also seriously doubt they thought they'd just stop at the borders of old germany and go home.

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  • rayofashrayofash Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    You know, there is that whole other theatre of WWII . . . why hasn't anyone made a game about taking Iwo Jima or something?

    No kidding. Why do they all have to be set as infantry in Europe?

  • The TommyThe Tommy Registered User
    edited April 2007
    rayofash wrote: »
    You know, there is that whole other theatre of WWII . . . why hasn't anyone made a game about taking Iwo Jima or something?

    No kidding. Why do they all have to be set in Europe?

    There was the one Metal of Honor game set there

    (it sucked)

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  • Zetetic ElenchZetetic Elench Registered User
    edited April 2007
    Wren wrote: »
    sure, I'm not trying to say who was wrong or right, I'm just saying what is (or more correctly, was). I also seriously doubt they thought they'd just stop at the borders of old germany and go home.

    Yeah, I just took a little bit of issue with your "rule the world" thing. I'm gonna stop talking about that now.

    Brothers in Arms had some really good music.

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  • The TommyThe Tommy Registered User
    edited April 2007
    So is my idea good or what?

    I mean, the reason WWII games are bland is because they're all the same. They have no story or plot, really, besides "LOOK NAZIS." It's like an upgrade of Duck Hunt.

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  • WrenWren Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    rayofash wrote: »
    You know, there is that whole other theatre of WWII . . . why hasn't anyone made a game about taking Iwo Jima or something?

    No kidding. Why do they all have to be set in Europe?

    there are a decent number of pacific theatre games out there, if you actually looked you would find some.

    I think why no one likes to do it if they can't help it is that a lot of battles were in jungles or just places with a lot of foliage. Games haven't been able to do those properly until just recently, and they looked like ass. When it wasn't foliage, it was water and its hard to do a FPS on a boat in middle of the ocean against other boats. You can do a game about that, but it isnt going to be a FPS anymore (and with that in mind, there are a lot of WW2 flight games that take place in the pacific theatre)

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  • The TommyThe Tommy Registered User
    edited April 2007
    Wren wrote: »
    rayofash wrote: »
    You know, there is that whole other theatre of WWII . . . why hasn't anyone made a game about taking Iwo Jima or something?

    No kidding. Why do they all have to be set in Europe?

    there are a decent number of pacific theatre games out there, if you actually looked you would find some.

    I think why no one likes to do it if they can't help it is that a lot of battles were in jungles or just places with a lot of foliage. Games haven't been able to do those properly until just recently, and they looked like ass. When it wasn't foliage, it was water and its hard to do a FPS on a boat in middle of the ocean against other boats. You can do a game about that, but it isnt going to be a FPS anymore (and with that in mind, there are a lot of WW2 flight games that take place in the pacific theatre)

    There should be a Pacific conflict game with the Crysis engine.

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  • Zetetic ElenchZetetic Elench Registered User
    edited April 2007
    Wren wrote: »
    rayofash wrote: »
    You know, there is that whole other theatre of WWII . . . why hasn't anyone made a game about taking Iwo Jima or something?

    No kidding. Why do they all have to be set in Europe?

    there are a decent number of pacific theatre games out there, if you actually looked you would find some.

    I think why no one likes to do it if they can't help it is that a lot of battles were in jungles or just places with a lot of foliage. Games haven't been able to do those properly until just recently, and they looked like ass. When it wasn't foliage, it was water and its hard to do a FPS on a boat in middle of the ocean against other boats. You can do a game about that, but it isnt going to be a FPS anymore (and with that in mind, there are a lot of WW2 flight games that take place in the pacific theatre)

    I also think that the pacific theatre has a little more guilt and confusion attached to it. It's just a little more unsettling.

    That's my personal opinion, though.

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  • RaslinRaslin Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    You know, there is that whole other theatre of WWII . . . why hasn't anyone made a game about taking Iwo Jima or something?

    Ohh, there have

    Look at the awesome graphics

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  • Zetetic ElenchZetetic Elench Registered User
    edited April 2007
    Raslin wrote: »
    You know, there is that whole other theatre of WWII . . . why hasn't anyone made a game about taking Iwo Jima or something?

    Ohh, there have

    Look at the awesome graphics

    Are they fighting in Mordor, or something?

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  • AshcroftAshcroft I'm all about dem Yens, 'bout dem Yens No creditRegistered User regular
    edited April 2007
    Lets have Call of Duty 4: Blitzkrieg.

    Invading Poland, kicking Dutch ass, chasing the British into the sea.

    Then the last 2 levels are sitting around Paris getting drunk and stealing paintings.

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  • WrenWren Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    some of the best BF1942 maps are ones with the Japanese in them. but thats pretty different I guess.

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  • maximumzeromaximumzero I...wait, what? New Orleans, LARegistered User regular
    edited April 2007
    I think a fun game would be the "What-Ifs" of WWII.

    For example, what if we invaded Tokyo instead of dropping the bomb on 'em?

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  • RaslinRaslin Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    Ashcroft wrote: »
    Lets have Call of Duty 4: Blitzkrieg.

    Invading Poland, kicking Dutch ass, chasing the British into the sea.

    Then the last 2 levels are sitting around Paris getting drunk and stealing paintings.

    On a slightly related note, the blitzkrieg games were really good. I forget which one it was, but one basically has you fighting in the netherlands, france, etc. The polish and french maps in Forgotten hope were really fun also. I've really been wanting to see an fps based on the german invasion of france, possibly even an alternate future one where the french repelled the germans, and got into all kinds of crazy franco-german fights in alsace-lorraine.

    Maybe.

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  • WrenWren Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    Wren wrote: »
    sure, I'm not trying to say who was wrong or right, I'm just saying what is (or more correctly, was). I also seriously doubt they thought they'd just stop at the borders of old germany and go home.

    Yeah, I just took a little bit of issue with your "rule the world" thing. I'm gonna stop talking about that now.

    Brothers in Arms had some really good music.

    well I wouldn't say the world was on their minds, but certainly old country rivals that their country had been fighting with or been pushed around by, for centuries. after that, if you could, whats one more? then an other? and an other?

    (dont expect a reply, just wanted to get that out there)

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  • LlyranorLlyranor Registered User
    edited April 2007
    People talk about how WW2 FPS'es could make for potentially good storytelling. I wouldn't disagree, but the thing is that this is a problem throughout the whole industry, and it isn't anytime soon that WW2 FPS devs are going to be leading that change towards proper storytelling.

    Now, on the other hand, don't discard the narrative potential of other genres. Wargames don't have any story. When you select a scenario, you've given a short briefing about the situation at hand, what your units consist of, pending reinforcement and supplies, etc. Then you're given the role of CO and throw into the game. Then all the lives of the soldiers you're commanding are in your hand.

    In a RTS such as Company of Heroes, I'm not sure you feel much attachment to your units. So a squad of infantry just got wiped out. Luckily, a second one is being built. No problem, just send units into the enemy and keep rebuilding more. Which is fine as far as RTS go, but anyway.

    Now, people say that historical accuracy is pointless, that it adds nothing to the game except for hardcore grognard enthusiast. I wholly disagree, particularly because I am NOT a hardcore grognard enthusiast. I'm certainly a big fan of wargames, but this is actually a genre that I've dwelt in only since last year.

    Never mind the gameplay argument (which goes hand-in-hand with the incoming argument, anyway), historical accuracy can add a whole lot to narrative. You *are* General So-and-so, and this is where you are now. Hold a specific location for 2 days? Okay! Only, you have limited manpower, and supplies/reinforcements don't always come on time.... or at all. Meantime, you have to order your units around, putting them in situations where you might have to sacrifice a whole lot of them for the 'greater good'. When nightfall comes, do you anticipate enemy ambushes? Do you let your units rest? What about the constant artillery barrage you're eating? Do you hold at all costs? Do you retreat if it means that you could save the majority of your forces from an overwhelming enemy attack? This is what General So-and-so had to go through back then, and now you have to make the decisions that he had to make back then. This is 'immersion' at its finest.

    Some people don't care about that stuff, but there's something about reliving history that's just... haunting for me. There's a lot more meaning in this narrative than a strongly plot-driven WW2 'epic' heroic story. People are asking for made-up stuff, but I'll argue that the real thing is that much more powerful.

    Just a thought.

  • El VientoEl Viento Registered User
    edited April 2007
    Ring of Red has your alternate history, strategy RPG, crazy mad stuff (mechs), alternative theatre and WWII all in one game.

    I really regret trading this one in.

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  • Fartacus_the_MightyFartacus_the_Mighty Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    The genre needs more historical fantasy-type games. Things like Wolfenstien, where you're dealing with Nazi cults and such, while still keeping the game as realistic as possible. I also think I'd enjoy a game where you get to play as a German soldier, and good performance can mean victory for that side. I doubt we'd ever see one, but a developer might be able to sneak that in if they made an allied campaign to go with it.

  • tyrannustyrannus Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    You need to play the game as a robot velociraptor in World War II. Something about getting into a tank and just having blood spray everywhere and then leap the fuck out would be awesome.

  • AlejandroDaJAlejandroDaJ Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    The boringness of WWII games in general is certainly debatle. But I think there's something we can all agree on, the major reason why this thread even exists in the first place:

    We are all very sick of Normandy.

  • STATE OF THE ART ROBOTSTATE OF THE ART ROBOT Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    I wouldn't mind seeing a GOOD wwII RTS game. I think that has potential. Also, Medal of Honor is a pretty good series.

  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    I want a WWII game set in Ethiopia during the invasion by Italy.

  • FencingsaxFencingsax Bondage Discipline Spider-Man Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    Cups42 wrote: »
    I wouldn't mind seeing a GOOD wwII RTS game. I think that has potential. Also, Medal of Honor is a pretty good series.

    I've heard that Company of Heroes is pretty good.

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  • ÆthelredÆthelred Registered User
    edited April 2007
    Titmouse wrote: »
    I want a WWII game set in Ethiopia during the invasion by Italy.

    .. That didn't happen during WWII.

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  • The TommyThe Tommy Registered User
    edited April 2007
    Titmouse wrote: »
    I want a WWII game set in Ethiopia during the invasion by Italy.

    .. That didn't happen during WWII.

    He meant North Africa, I guess. But desert warfare in WWII would be boring, since it'd be Atari 2600 Combat (the one with the tanks) in 3D.

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