So, what's a good way to use Trenchers? Granted I'm new to the game. But I think you could get some mileage out of them by using 2 small units with rifle grenades + Officer +grenadiers and somebody with snipe. Using pNemo though (as I am atm) I can't think of a reason to use them.
SJ on
0
Options
CorporateLogoThe toilet knowshow I feelRegistered Userregular
edited January 2010
Smoke screen and pHaley using Temporal Barrier every turn.
There was a guy on the PP forums a few years back who argued that if he was having fun doing this, then his opponent should be having fun too
Well that obviously. Anything other than the painfully obvious though? :P
SJ on
0
Options
General NemoThe Mighty ShameChurch for DogsRegistered Userregular
edited January 2010
They're a smokescreen and a speed bump/tar pit. They're great when supported by Stryker1 or Hailey, since they can take out light troops with their rifles and are decent in melee.
Wait am I crazy? There is an alt pose Vlad isn't there? I don't see any record of him anywhere but I am sure it's not E.Vlad, and I don't think he looks like the picture I am finding at all.
How is the Khador battle box assembly wise? Is it as easy as the Magnus one or is it make me wanna poke my eyes out with a file difficult like the Skorne box. I just got the Khador set at christmas and didn't open it up.
TheUnsane1 on
0
Options
admanbunionize your workplaceSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
How is the Khador battle box assembly wise? Is it as easy as the Magnus one or is it make me wanna poke my eyes out with a file difficult like the Skorne box. I just got the Khador set at christmas and didn't open it up.
I like super easy! Maybe I will get on that in the next week or so then. I plan to do my Khador in a Gunmetal, grey, black, with maroon accent scheme. I worry it might looks sort of Nazi germany tho.
Just watch out for the khador gap, on all the warjacks, im going to assume this will get fixed with the new plastics. Also, i've never seen an vlad mini that I actualy liked the looks of.
Draeven on
Morskitter wrote "Spikes, choppas, tentacles, magic? Can't hold a candle to Sergeant Pimp here."
0
Options
General NemoThe Mighty ShameChurch for DogsRegistered Userregular
edited January 2010
I am a fan of epic Vlad's model, though I would happily green stuff new shoulder pads and a cloak for him.
OtakuD00DCan I hit the exploding rocks?San DiegoRegistered Userregular
edited January 2010
Stats for Avalancher, Cinerators, and Vigilant are up on the main page. Menoth forums are crying their asses out.
Cinerators are reachless, PS 12 weaponmasters that set enemies within an inch of what they hit (Kill?) on fire. They get +2 spd if hurt. Arm 17.
Vigilant is an ARM 21 light jack with Girded. AOE armies will now cry foul now as Menite players will begin to stack these Jack son top of Choir and Vassals.
admanbunionize your workplaceSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
edited January 2010
It's your basic forum logic. On paper the Cinerators look unimpressive compared to Bastions: SPD6 after being shot = SPD4 with reach, ARM17 is inferior to ARM16 with damage spreading, and the exploding fire is situational. However, that kind of simplification collapses with the myriad variety of casters, support units, and tier lists that will benefit each unit differently.
So I'm new to Warmachine. My brother, two of our friends, and I have all decided we are rather tired of 40k and so we've been playing Mangled Metal games to get ourselves used to the rules. I have taken a liking to the Khador play stlye, look, and fluff. Right now I'm getting a plastic 'jack set, and the Khador cards tommorow or sunday. I have the rules, and the pre-realese PDF cards. (though these are missing at least the Decimator heavy jack)
To the questions. I've seen people mention that Khador is an infantry army when you play top-tier. Is this because they just don't have any focus monkey warcasters? (like the harbringer... goddamn that bitch lol) Or is the Winter guard that good?
Also, MoW's look good on paper, which (shocktroopers or demos) are more widely used and liked?
I'd personally like to run either a balanced list between 'jacks and infantry, or a more 'jack heavy force. I've spent a lot of time looking at the casters, and Zerkova looks like the best for a 'jack force to my noob eyes. She has more focus than just about any of the other khador casters. At the same time, Karchev is tempting simply because I tend to be stupidly aggressive with my casters, and he seems like a good canidate for that.
What would really be awesome is if someone could show me what the typical Khador list looks like, and maybe give me some pointers to build my own. Thanks a ton.
Valhalla on
0
Options
General NemoThe Mighty ShameChurch for DogsRegistered Userregular
edited January 2010
Do NOT, I repeat, do NOT read the official Privateer Press boards if you want any sort of advice about this game. Come here, for God's sake, and myself or another experienced player with a relatively unbiased opinion will give you what you need to know.
Khador is a very internally balanced army. They have a lot of options at any given time, and I find that they work best with a careful balance of warjacks and infantry.
The Man O War unit you pick is really up to your particular mood. If you want a nigh unbreakable line of metal, take Shocktroopers. If you want to ream some troops or warjacks, take Demolition Corps.
Take Karchev. He's far less difficult to play effectively, since his style is fairly straightforward. You will be frustrated by Zerkova's style in the beginning, since she requires a good knowledge of the game to operate efficiently.
Start at 25 pts. to get a feel for Karchev, and build on that when you figure out what the list is lacking.
For example:
Karchev the Terrible
-Juggernaut
-Marauder
-Berserker
Man-O-War Demolition Corps. x3
Widowmakers
25/25
From here, you might want a core unit like Winter Guard who have access to things that make the unit more self sufficient (The logic here being that Karchev cannot support troops, so it is best to take troops that support themselves), or Iron Fang Pikemen who are great holding a line.
Here you have the option to conceal Karchev when you're on the defense by using Blizzard on your Demolition Corps, as well as plenty of options for dealing with troop spam.
After that, you get Uhlans. A minimum unit of Uhlans will solve most any problem you can't solve with the rest of your army. With Karchev, everything is fodder to protect his battlegroup, so keep that in mind as well when making a list for him.
General Nemo on
0
Options
OtakuD00DCan I hit the exploding rocks?San DiegoRegistered Userregular
edited January 2010
I'll re-iterate it here. Stay away from the PP forums if you want sane, good advice. It's for your own good.
That said, while Khador does have good troops, they have very good, very durable Warjacks in Mk II and most casters have means to support them now. Juggernauts are 7 points. 7 points!
Zerkova is all right. She's actually an anti-magic caster. Watcher is nice- it doesn't expire if you don't make an attack with it.
Personally, I think the best Jack casters in Khador are currentky Karchev and Butcher, either form. Epic Irusk comes in close. There's a good chance the new caster, Strakhov, may be very good too.
OtakuD00D on
0
Options
admanbunionize your workplaceSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
So I'm new to Warmachine. My brother, two of our friends, and I have all decided we are rather tired of 40k and so we've been playing Mangled Metal games to get ourselves used to the rules. I have taken a liking to the Khador play stlye, look, and fluff. Right now I'm getting a plastic 'jack set, and the Khador cards tommorow or sunday. I have the rules, and the pre-realese PDF cards. (though these are missing at least the Decimator heavy jack)
To the questions. I've seen people mention that Khador is an infantry army when you play top-tier. Is this because they just don't have any focus monkey warcasters? (like the harbringer... goddamn that bitch lol) Or is the Winter guard that good?
It's a complex thing. Being an effective 'jack caster is less about raw focus and more about focus efficiency and focus support. Most casters are at most two focus away from each other, with Harby being the disturbing exception. From the perspective of Cygnar, we have one highly effective 'jack caster -- eNemo, but his focus stat is only seven and he relies on a pile of upkeep spells, so what's up with that? Part of it is his feat, which allows one turn of explosive focus, but that's just one turn. A bigger part of it is the amount of focus support that Cygnar can muster: Stormblades with a Stormclad give a bonus focus, Arlan Strangeways gives a bonus focus, and the Squire gives a bonus focus.
Menoth can run 'jack heavy with low focus casters too, Vassals give a bonus attack (equivalent of one focus), Wracks give bonus focus, the Reclaimer can give bonus focus, and Hierophants reduce spell cost. That's a lot of focus support.
However, the other method is focus efficiency, and that's where a couple of Khador casters shine. Focus efficiency comes from spells that give a calculable bonus greater than the focus they cost, and the bonus scales with the number of affected 'jacks. Full Throttle, for example, costs the Butcher three focus, but gives a bonus of anywhere from 1-5 focus for each 'jack affected. The more 'jacks you have, the more you're getting out of your three focus. Karchev's Unearthly Rage can be even better.
Also, MoW's look good on paper, which (shocktroopers or demos) are more widely used and liked?
Shocktroopers, I believe. ARM21 with eight boxes is hard to beat.
Posts
Edit: nevermind this one is what I have I think.
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
Super easy.
I want to get Vassal up and running and learn this game.
Cinerators are reachless, PS 12 weaponmasters that set enemies within an inch of what they hit (Kill?) on fire. They get +2 spd if hurt. Arm 17.
Vigilant is an ARM 21 light jack with Girded. AOE armies will now cry foul now as Menite players will begin to stack these Jack son top of Choir and Vassals.
who the hell thinks those are bad?
SPD4 RAT5 ARM19+2 (shield). Gun is RNG 15 POW 14 AOE3.
that's really damn good
Madhammer wanking over it.
As hard as he can.
EDIT: Huh, I didn't think about the Combo with Thor. Pronto it to get the free movement out of it, and you can keep the aiming bonus as well.
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
To the questions. I've seen people mention that Khador is an infantry army when you play top-tier. Is this because they just don't have any focus monkey warcasters? (like the harbringer... goddamn that bitch lol) Or is the Winter guard that good?
Also, MoW's look good on paper, which (shocktroopers or demos) are more widely used and liked?
I'd personally like to run either a balanced list between 'jacks and infantry, or a more 'jack heavy force. I've spent a lot of time looking at the casters, and Zerkova looks like the best for a 'jack force to my noob eyes. She has more focus than just about any of the other khador casters. At the same time, Karchev is tempting simply because I tend to be stupidly aggressive with my casters, and he seems like a good canidate for that.
What would really be awesome is if someone could show me what the typical Khador list looks like, and maybe give me some pointers to build my own. Thanks a ton.
Khador is a very internally balanced army. They have a lot of options at any given time, and I find that they work best with a careful balance of warjacks and infantry.
The Man O War unit you pick is really up to your particular mood. If you want a nigh unbreakable line of metal, take Shocktroopers. If you want to ream some troops or warjacks, take Demolition Corps.
Take Karchev. He's far less difficult to play effectively, since his style is fairly straightforward. You will be frustrated by Zerkova's style in the beginning, since she requires a good knowledge of the game to operate efficiently.
Start at 25 pts. to get a feel for Karchev, and build on that when you figure out what the list is lacking.
For example:
Karchev the Terrible
-Juggernaut
-Marauder
-Berserker
Man-O-War Demolition Corps. x3
Widowmakers
25/25
From here, you might want a core unit like Winter Guard who have access to things that make the unit more self sufficient (The logic here being that Karchev cannot support troops, so it is best to take troops that support themselves), or Iron Fang Pikemen who are great holding a line.
A 35 pt. list I would make might be:
Karchev
-Juggernaut
-Marauder
-Berserker
Man-O-War Demolition Corps. x5
Greylord Ternion
Widowmakers
Battle Mechaniks x6
35/35
Here you have the option to conceal Karchev when you're on the defense by using Blizzard on your Demolition Corps, as well as plenty of options for dealing with troop spam.
After that, you get Uhlans. A minimum unit of Uhlans will solve most any problem you can't solve with the rest of your army. With Karchev, everything is fodder to protect his battlegroup, so keep that in mind as well when making a list for him.
That said, while Khador does have good troops, they have very good, very durable Warjacks in Mk II and most casters have means to support them now. Juggernauts are 7 points. 7 points!
Zerkova is all right. She's actually an anti-magic caster. Watcher is nice- it doesn't expire if you don't make an attack with it.
Personally, I think the best Jack casters in Khador are currentky Karchev and Butcher, either form. Epic Irusk comes in close. There's a good chance the new caster, Strakhov, may be very good too.
It's a complex thing. Being an effective 'jack caster is less about raw focus and more about focus efficiency and focus support. Most casters are at most two focus away from each other, with Harby being the disturbing exception. From the perspective of Cygnar, we have one highly effective 'jack caster -- eNemo, but his focus stat is only seven and he relies on a pile of upkeep spells, so what's up with that? Part of it is his feat, which allows one turn of explosive focus, but that's just one turn. A bigger part of it is the amount of focus support that Cygnar can muster: Stormblades with a Stormclad give a bonus focus, Arlan Strangeways gives a bonus focus, and the Squire gives a bonus focus.
Menoth can run 'jack heavy with low focus casters too, Vassals give a bonus attack (equivalent of one focus), Wracks give bonus focus, the Reclaimer can give bonus focus, and Hierophants reduce spell cost. That's a lot of focus support.
However, the other method is focus efficiency, and that's where a couple of Khador casters shine. Focus efficiency comes from spells that give a calculable bonus greater than the focus they cost, and the bonus scales with the number of affected 'jacks. Full Throttle, for example, costs the Butcher three focus, but gives a bonus of anywhere from 1-5 focus for each 'jack affected. The more 'jacks you have, the more you're getting out of your three focus. Karchev's Unearthly Rage can be even better.
Shocktroopers, I believe. ARM21 with eight boxes is hard to beat.