Charging gives you +3 movement, boundless charge gives you +2. Can you legally boundless charge a target that is FAR out of range, and still benefit from the +5 cumulative movement and pathfinder? Is this legal? The only thing that I see is that if the charge is unsuccessful, the activation immediately ends, which means no shooting after the movement. However, nothing in the rules strictly prevents it and if you have no shooting, it's really no disadvantage.
Is this dirty pool? It does allow spd4 jacks to move further than simply running would.
Charging gives you +3 movement, boundless charge gives you +2. Can you legally boundless charge a target that is FAR out of range, and still benefit from the +5 cumulative movement and pathfinder? Is this legal? The only thing that I see is that if the charge is unsuccessful, the activation immediately ends, which means no shooting after the movement, but that nothing in the rules strictly prevents it.
Is this dirty pool? It does allow spd4 jacks to move further than simply running would.
Nah. That's legal. If you want to spend one focus for 1" of movement, no one's going to be too upset. There are dirtier tricks than that involving charges, most of them involve charging your own guys, succeeding, and then using a limited range ability that you couldn't do if you ran.
(edit: I'm at 98.117.104.7. The server is still flaky, so stick to p2p).
Basic idea would be sit back and shoot, using the Avalanchers and the Gunners to fire long range, and spend most of my focus early game boosting them. (since the gunners have powerful attack), then once the enemy got close, use Explosivo on the two Gunners, and then use Durgen's feat to just make shit die when both the avalanchers and both the gunners and Durgen himself open up with AoE guns.
Use Thor to patch up any bad damage and support the 'jacks, then once whatever was left got close, charge with the Forge Guard and the Wroughthammer Rockram and beat them up.
well, yes this sucks, lol. I haven't had this many issues with vassal uptell now.
Draeven on
Morskitter wrote "Spikes, choppas, tentacles, magic? Can't hold a candle to Sergeant Pimp here."
0
admanbunionize your workplaceSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
edited January 2010
These are the worst issues I've seen in months. It seems to be smoothing out though; there's a lot less lag between flickers. Either that means it's about to implode, or it's recovering. :P
Oh, speaking of Vassal, how much pain is it to get that up and ready to run Warmachine games?
What's a funny synonym for "none"?
I mean, wait, shit.
edit: Make sure you have a relatively recent version of Java (if you don't know, you probably do.) Download the .exe from here. Download the module from here open the .exe, load the module, et cetera, et cetera. Errr, voila.
Basic idea would be sit back and shoot, using the Avalanchers and the Gunners to fire long range, and spend most of my focus early game boosting them. (since the gunners have powerful attack), then once the enemy got close, use Explosivo on the two Gunners, and then use Durgen's feat to just make shit die when both the avalanchers and both the gunners and Durgen himself open up with AoE guns.
Use Thor to patch up any bad damage and support the 'jacks, then once whatever was left got close, charge with the Forge Guard and the Wroughthammer Rockram and beat them up.
Yay/nay?
More units! Bump that unit up to full and give Thor Steinhammer one of those heavies to take some of the pressure off of Durgen's focus.
If anyone didn't notice, they're selling individual Mark II cards on the PP online store now.
From what I hear, the shipping cost's messed up ATM, though. They're trying to work a special option out for the cards so you don't end up paying something like $8 for one card.
(So glad I didn't buy the Mercs deck for one card now.)
PMAvers on
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
Basic idea would be sit back and shoot, using the Avalanchers and the Gunners to fire long range, and spend most of my focus early game boosting them. (since the gunners have powerful attack), then once the enemy got close, use Explosivo on the two Gunners, and then use Durgen's feat to just make shit die when both the avalanchers and both the gunners and Durgen himself open up with AoE guns.
Use Thor to patch up any bad damage and support the 'jacks, then once whatever was left got close, charge with the Forge Guard and the Wroughthammer Rockram and beat them up.
Yay/nay?
More units! Bump that unit up to full and give Thor Steinhammer one of those heavies to take some of the pressure off of Durgen's focus.
I only have a point left to play with unless I start getting rid of things. And the full unit is 3 points more. Which heavy should Thor marshal? I was thinking the Rockram, since the other 'jacks need to benefit from Durgen and his focus more than that does.
Though were I to get rid of something, I'd ditch the Rockram and take the full Forge Guard, giving me another 6 points to play around with. What do you reccomend?
Just picked up the eButcher model and fuck is it awesome. I'm itching to get a game in with him now. Here's my first shot at a 35 pt list:
Kommander Orsus Zoktavir (+6)
Juggernaut -7
Kodiak -8
Spriggan -10
War Dog -1
Manhunter -2
Kovnik Jozef Grigorovich -2
10 Winter Guard -6
Officer & Std -2
3 x Rocketeers -3
How's that look?
I'm new to the game, but that looks like a solid list to me. Like I said, I'm hardly an expert but just looking at the stats it would seem to me that instead of Rocketeers a field gun or mortar might be better? The rocketeers range is shorter, and its POW is significantly less. However, if your plan is to keep you Winter Guard mobile, rather than an unmovable block of death to almost anything that comes near it, the rocketeers are better since you can move and shoot.
By all means, please do. I wouldn't have advertised the game if I didn't want people to watch.
I'm just waiting on Draeven to sort out his printer issues before we can start.
Unrelated note - I've been looking at the other casters available to Cryx in my Mk2 book. Denny really seems to be the most "rounded"... or at least the caster who doesn't seem to have a lot of advantages that are vastly more useful for infantry heavy lists. pAsphy and pSkarre seem to have more abilities that aren't as useful in the battlegroup level of play, stuff that just isn't as useful for jacks.
Am, I missing something? Are pAsphy and pSkarre just not as effective at the BG/Jack-only level?
Basic idea would be sit back and shoot, using the Avalanchers and the Gunners to fire long range, and spend most of my focus early game boosting them. (since the gunners have powerful attack), then once the enemy got close, use Explosivo on the two Gunners, and then use Durgen's feat to just make shit die when both the avalanchers and both the gunners and Durgen himself open up with AoE guns.
Use Thor to patch up any bad damage and support the 'jacks, then once whatever was left got close, charge with the Forge Guard and the Wroughthammer Rockram and beat them up.
Yay/nay?
More units! Bump that unit up to full and give Thor Steinhammer one of those heavies to take some of the pressure off of Durgen's focus.
I only have a point left to play with unless I start getting rid of things. And the full unit is 3 points more. Which heavy should Thor marshal? I was thinking the Rockram, since the other 'jacks need to benefit from Durgen and his focus more than that does.
Though were I to get rid of something, I'd ditch the Rockram and take the full Forge Guard, giving me another 6 points to play around with. What do you reccomend?
Ditch the Rockram, give Thor an Avalancher and use the 6 points for a Grundback Blaster and fill out the unit of Forge Guard.
Hmm. Makes sense. So that extra 9 points means I could get two blasters. And fill the Forge Guard out. So that the blasters are there to perform anti-infantry..
For some reason I was under the impression the Avalanche cannon was ROF 2, but its 1. So he doesnt need to be in Durgen's battlegroup. So one of them for sure can be attached to Thor. Thanks for the help.!
Just picked up the eButcher model and fuck is it awesome. I'm itching to get a game in with him now. Here's my first shot at a 35 pt list:
Kommander Orsus Zoktavir (+6)
Juggernaut -7
Kodiak -8
Spriggan -10
War Dog -1
Manhunter -2
Kovnik Jozef Grigorovich -2
10 Winter Guard -6
Officer & Std -2
3 x Rocketeers -3
How's that look?
I'm new to the game, but that looks like a solid list to me. Like I said, I'm hardly an expert but just looking at the stats it would seem to me that instead of Rocketeers a field gun or mortar might be better? The rocketeers range is shorter, and its POW is significantly less. However, if your plan is to keep you Winter Guard mobile, rather than an unmovable block of death to almost anything that comes near it, the rocketeers are better since you can move and shoot.
The con to the mortar is that it's 3 pts, whereas Rocketeers are only 1 pt. I can have three mobile AOE shots or one static long range shot. Rocketeers are also winter guard in all respects so can participate in CMA's and CRA's. The mortar definitely packs a bigger punch though. I'll have to play around with both.
Eterenal on
0
ApogeeLancks In Every Game EverRegistered Userregular
edited January 2010
Guys, any idea when Hordes will be updated? I'm lothe to buy new cards when my poor Cragback and Lug will be left in the dust until upgraded...
Just picked up the eButcher model and fuck is it awesome. I'm itching to get a game in with him now. Here's my first shot at a 35 pt list:
Kommander Orsus Zoktavir (+6)
Juggernaut -7
Kodiak -8
Spriggan -10
War Dog -1
Manhunter -2
Kovnik Jozef Grigorovich -2
10 Winter Guard -6
Officer & Std -2
3 x Rocketeers -3
How's that look?
I'm new to the game, but that looks like a solid list to me. Like I said, I'm hardly an expert but just looking at the stats it would seem to me that instead of Rocketeers a field gun or mortar might be better? The rocketeers range is shorter, and its POW is significantly less. However, if your plan is to keep you Winter Guard mobile, rather than an unmovable block of death to almost anything that comes near it, the rocketeers are better since you can move and shoot.
The con to the mortar is that it's 3 pts, whereas Rocketeers are only 1 pt. I can have three mobile AOE shots or one static long range shot. Rocketeers are also winter guard in all respects so can participate in CMA's and CRA's. The mortar definitely packs a bigger punch though. I'll have to play around with both.
however you are taking three of them, making it the same point cost as a mortar. But i do see your reasoning, sounds like something to play test each way and see which suits your style best. Im personally partial to mortars. Something about raining death upon the Motherland's foes is just too cool :P
Valhalla on
0
General NemoThe Mighty ShameChurch for DogsRegistered Userregular
Just picked up the eButcher model and fuck is it awesome. I'm itching to get a game in with him now. Here's my first shot at a 35 pt list:
Kommander Orsus Zoktavir (+6)
Juggernaut -7
Kodiak -8
Spriggan -10
War Dog -1
Manhunter -2
Kovnik Jozef Grigorovich -2
10 Winter Guard -6
Officer & Std -2
3 x Rocketeers -3
How's that look?
Epic Butcher is a far more advanced warcaster to play than one would think at first.
When you build a list for him, think of including two elements: Things that generate Rage and things that use Rage. Sometimes these two overlap, like in the case of Doom Reavers or Fenris.
Winter Guard may generate Rage, but do not benefit much from Feel the Hate much, and Butcher2 doesn't have any spells besides Fury that really help them. Instead of Winter Guard for a core troop, I reommend some form of Man O War unit. It's more cost efficient, and accomplishes the goal of using and abusing those Rage tokens which will almost always win you the game.
Your Battlegroup is solid, but with all the points left over from dropping Winter Guard, you could upgrade to a second Spriggan or Beast 09, both of which benefit most from the Feat and Rage tokens. More often than not, Bulldoze and Reach will open up enough of a hole to pound a caster to paste on the feat turn.
It is all about Feel the Hate. Widowmakers are excellent Rage generators since they can pick of 4 troopers for 4 free Rage, and models like Fenris and the Man O War Drakhun generate and use tokens very, very efficiently.
And Reach. Reach is very important for Butcher's feat turn so that he can get the most threat range out of his army.
4 copies of the Devout's card, but only a single Chorus?
Seriously, I dislike the layout of these new cards. So much empty space and almost no model artwork. During the field test we complained about that a lot. Graphic design fail.
DragonPup on
"I was there, I was there, the day Horus slew the Emperor." -Cpt Garviel Loken
4 copies of the Devout's card, but only a single Chorus?
Seriously, I dislike the layout of these new cards. So much empty space and almost no model artwork. During the field test we complained about that a lot. Graphic design fail.
You only need 1 Choir card, no matter how many you have on the field. No hit point or anything to keep track of...
As for the graphic design, it's a uniform template applied to all cards to maximize space for weaponry.
Just picked up the eButcher model and fuck is it awesome. I'm itching to get a game in with him now. Here's my first shot at a 35 pt list:
Kommander Orsus Zoktavir (+6)
Juggernaut -7
Kodiak -8
Spriggan -10
War Dog -1
Manhunter -2
Kovnik Jozef Grigorovich -2
10 Winter Guard -6
Officer & Std -2
3 x Rocketeers -3
How's that look?
Epic Butcher is a far more advanced warcaster to play than one would think at first.
When you build a list for him, think of including two elements: Things that generate Rage and things that use Rage. Sometimes these two overlap, like in the case of Doom Reavers or Fenris.
Winter Guard may generate Rage, but do not benefit much from Feel the Hate much, and Butcher2 doesn't have any spells besides Fury that really help them. Instead of Winter Guard for a core troop, I reommend some form of Man O War unit. It's more cost efficient, and accomplishes the goal of using and abusing those Rage tokens which will almost always win you the game.
Your Battlegroup is solid, but with all the points left over from dropping Winter Guard, you could upgrade to a second Spriggan or Beast 09, both of which benefit most from the Feat and Rage tokens. More often than not, Bulldoze and Reach will open up enough of a hole to pound a caster to paste on the feat turn.
It is all about Feel the Hate. Widowmakers are excellent Rage generators since they can pick of 4 troopers for 4 free Rage, and models like Fenris and the Man O War Drakhun generate and use tokens very, very efficiently.
And Reach. Reach is very important for Butcher's feat turn so that he can get the most threat range out of his army.
That's solid advice. I'll have to take a look at his feat and retool my list a bit more towards that. So far I've been including WG in every list I've taken because they haven't let me down. However, I can see how eButcher doesn't support them very effectively and vica versa.
Eterenal on
0
General NemoThe Mighty ShameChurch for DogsRegistered Userregular
edited January 2010
Don't get me wrong. Winter Guard are the best all around unit we have. They can melee thanks to Joe (With help from Fury and Butcher1's feat, things get ridiculous), they can shoot long and short range, they can tarpit, and they can take out heavy targets with little support.
Anyone feel like showing me what's up with Warmachine Mk.2 and vassal tonight? Haven't played since I moved back to Norway 2 years back, and reading this thread makes me want to pick it up again.
Cynic Jester on
0
General NemoThe Mighty ShameChurch for DogsRegistered Userregular
edited January 2010
Man, if I got points for all the demos I do on Vassal...Glad to see our threads are so successful though.
I would help, but I have my first MKII tourney tonight!
Posts
Charging gives you +3 movement, boundless charge gives you +2. Can you legally boundless charge a target that is FAR out of range, and still benefit from the +5 cumulative movement and pathfinder? Is this legal? The only thing that I see is that if the charge is unsuccessful, the activation immediately ends, which means no shooting after the movement. However, nothing in the rules strictly prevents it and if you have no shooting, it's really no disadvantage.
Is this dirty pool? It does allow spd4 jacks to move further than simply running would.
Nah. That's legal. If you want to spend one focus for 1" of movement, no one's going to be too upset. There are dirtier tricks than that involving charges, most of them involve charging your own guys, succeeding, and then using a limited range ability that you couldn't do if you ran.
(edit: I'm at 98.117.104.7. The server is still flaky, so stick to p2p).
Durgen Madhammer (+6)
Avalancher-9
Avalancher-9
Wroughthammer Rockram-8
Grundback Gunner-3
Grundback Gunner-3
Thor Steinhammer-2
Horgenhold Forge Guard (minimum unit)-5
-34 total
Basic idea would be sit back and shoot, using the Avalanchers and the Gunners to fire long range, and spend most of my focus early game boosting them. (since the gunners have powerful attack), then once the enemy got close, use Explosivo on the two Gunners, and then use Durgen's feat to just make shit die when both the avalanchers and both the gunners and Durgen himself open up with AoE guns.
Use Thor to patch up any bad damage and support the 'jacks, then once whatever was left got close, charge with the Forge Guard and the Wroughthammer Rockram and beat them up.
Yay/nay?
What's a funny synonym for "none"?
I mean, wait, shit.
edit: Make sure you have a relatively recent version of Java (if you don't know, you probably do.) Download the .exe from here. Download the module from here open the .exe, load the module, et cetera, et cetera. Errr, voila.
From what I hear, the shipping cost's messed up ATM, though. They're trying to work a special option out for the cards so you don't end up paying something like $8 for one card.
(So glad I didn't buy the Mercs deck for one card now.)
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
I only have a point left to play with unless I start getting rid of things. And the full unit is 3 points more. Which heavy should Thor marshal? I was thinking the Rockram, since the other 'jacks need to benefit from Durgen and his focus more than that does.
Though were I to get rid of something, I'd ditch the Rockram and take the full Forge Guard, giving me another 6 points to play around with. What do you reccomend?
Kommander Orsus Zoktavir (+6)
Juggernaut -7
Kodiak -8
Spriggan -10
War Dog -1
Manhunter -2
Kovnik Jozef Grigorovich -2
10 Winter Guard -6
Officer & Std -2
3 x Rocketeers -3
How's that look?
I'm new to the game, but that looks like a solid list to me. Like I said, I'm hardly an expert but just looking at the stats it would seem to me that instead of Rocketeers a field gun or mortar might be better? The rocketeers range is shorter, and its POW is significantly less. However, if your plan is to keep you Winter Guard mobile, rather than an unmovable block of death to almost anything that comes near it, the rocketeers are better since you can move and shoot.
I'm just waiting on Draeven to sort out his printer issues before we can start.
Unrelated note - I've been looking at the other casters available to Cryx in my Mk2 book. Denny really seems to be the most "rounded"... or at least the caster who doesn't seem to have a lot of advantages that are vastly more useful for infantry heavy lists. pAsphy and pSkarre seem to have more abilities that aren't as useful in the battlegroup level of play, stuff that just isn't as useful for jacks.
Am, I missing something? Are pAsphy and pSkarre just not as effective at the BG/Jack-only level?
Left click my name to highlight it, then right click it and choose "synchronize".
For some reason I was under the impression the Avalanche cannon was ROF 2, but its 1. So he doesnt need to be in Durgen's battlegroup. So one of them for sure can be attached to Thor. Thanks for the help.!
The con to the mortar is that it's 3 pts, whereas Rocketeers are only 1 pt. I can have three mobile AOE shots or one static long range shot. Rocketeers are also winter guard in all respects so can participate in CMA's and CRA's. The mortar definitely packs a bigger punch though. I'll have to play around with both.
however you are taking three of them, making it the same point cost as a mortar. But i do see your reasoning, sounds like something to play test each way and see which suits your style best. Im personally partial to mortars. Something about raining death upon the Motherland's foes is just too cool :P
When you build a list for him, think of including two elements: Things that generate Rage and things that use Rage. Sometimes these two overlap, like in the case of Doom Reavers or Fenris.
Winter Guard may generate Rage, but do not benefit much from Feel the Hate much, and Butcher2 doesn't have any spells besides Fury that really help them. Instead of Winter Guard for a core troop, I reommend some form of Man O War unit. It's more cost efficient, and accomplishes the goal of using and abusing those Rage tokens which will almost always win you the game.
Your Battlegroup is solid, but with all the points left over from dropping Winter Guard, you could upgrade to a second Spriggan or Beast 09, both of which benefit most from the Feat and Rage tokens. More often than not, Bulldoze and Reach will open up enough of a hole to pound a caster to paste on the feat turn.
It is all about Feel the Hate. Widowmakers are excellent Rage generators since they can pick of 4 troopers for 4 free Rage, and models like Fenris and the Man O War Drakhun generate and use tokens very, very efficiently.
And Reach. Reach is very important for Butcher's feat turn so that he can get the most threat range out of his army.
4 copies of the Devout's card, but only a single Chorus?
Seriously, I dislike the layout of these new cards. So much empty space and almost no model artwork. During the field test we complained about that a lot. Graphic design fail.
Currently painting: Slowly [flickr]
You only need 1 Choir card, no matter how many you have on the field. No hit point or anything to keep track of...
As for the graphic design, it's a uniform template applied to all cards to maximize space for weaponry.
That's solid advice. I'll have to take a look at his feat and retool my list a bit more towards that. So far I've been including WG in every list I've taken because they haven't let me down. However, I can see how eButcher doesn't support them very effectively and vica versa.
I would help, but I have my first MKII tourney tonight!