African Americans

NakedZergling · January 2010

Ok So im kinda pissed even though this does not directly impact my life. It does impact my friends life, but he doesn't seem to mind, so i guess it's a moot point. Let me however drop the issue on you guys and see if you think it's a big deal or not.

My friend Rich is African American. He was born there, as was his mother. His dad is from America and his wife and Rich both have dual citizenship. I don't think they own land in Africa anymore (they might) but they have family there (grand parents, aunts etc) and visit often.

Every one in rich's family is white.

We've always playfully joked about how he's a white African American, which he IS and is PROUD to be. He loves his heritage and Africa.

I got upset because he put on multiple scholarships for college that he was "African American", as he also checks it on boxes that ask such questions. He even Applied for specific "African American" scholarships.

He was denied all. On top of that he was told by 2 colleges that he wasn't African American. (they didn't flat out say that as much as danced around the issue, but it was specifically brought up twice)

Meanwhile Trip, another friend of our who is black, yet 4 generations removed from Africa got accepted for 2 different scholarships with worse grades. (Not BAD grades, but not as good as Rich)

So how the HELL is a 4th generation removed BLACK guy more African American than a WHITE guy BORN IN AFRICA??!?!

Like i said this pisses me off as i feel it represents the BULLSHIT hypocrisy in this country. The need to protect groups, and use "soft speech" to hide what they really mean. If schools want BLACK students to feel they are diverse then specify that you want black students.

I told him he should call news stations, and write to papers and perhaps even hire a lawyer, but he feels that it would be sinking down to their level.

Thoughts? Am i wrong to be bothered by this?

matt has a problem · January 2010

In this day and age, it's somehow less racist to lump an entire group of people into a single category based purely on a physical feature than it is to accurately describe them.

Septus · January 2010

I would not call Rich an African American any more than I'd call Dave Foley a Canadian American or someone with dual American/European citizenship, a European American.

Would those boxes on the college forms not be titled, Race?

THEPAIN73 · January 2010

NakedZergling wrote: »

Am i wrong to be bothered by this?

No you are not wrong.

You are smart and see what's wrong with current America's schooling and in general a racial problem that's brewing as we speak.

My girlfriend got awesome grades and she had trouble getting scholarships because she was white. She did find others for other races to be far more outnumbering than the one available for her.

Now I don't think it's a bad idea to give money to students. Not at all. My problem is when color comes before who gets what and how much of it.

It's unfair and nobody is saying anything. It is the elephant in the room complex.

matt has a problem · January 2010

Septus wrote: »

I would not call Rich an African American any more than I'd call Dave Foley a Canadian American or someone with dual American/European citizenship, a European American.

Would those boxes on the college forms not be titled, Race?

"African American" isn't a race.

:edit: And if it is, it means someone born in Africa with American citizenship, or born from someone born in Africa with American citizenship. Which Rich meets the criteria for.

Jokerman · January 2010

THEPAIN73 wrote: »

NakedZergling wrote: »

Am i wrong to be bothered by this?

No you are not wrong.

You are smart and see what's wrong with current America's schooling and in general a racial problem that's brewing as we speak.

My girlfriend got awesome grades and she had trouble getting scholarships because she was white. She did find others for other races to be far more outnumbering than the one available for her.

Now I don't think it's a bad idea to give money to students. Not at all. My problem is when color comes before who gets what and how much of it.

It's unfair and nobody is saying anything. It is the elephant in the room complex.

I believe it was the late, great, Jameskeenan who once said,

"You already have a scholarship, it's called being white."

Wait...it sounded alot less racist when he said it...clearly i've fucked up somewhere.

Thanatos · January 2010

The whole point of scholarships for African Americans is to encourage black people, who have historically been discriminated against--and continue to have many socio-economic factors working against them--to go to college. You know that. Your friend knows that. This is basically your friend using a load of pedantic bullshit to try to get some free money.

And really, it's fucking disgusting. He disgusts me. He is a terrible human being, though I probably shouldn't throw the "H-word" around quite so liberally in this case. Poor little rich white boy, whose family probably got by in Africa by fucking over as many black people as possible can't come over here and yank out the very small leg up schools and groups try to give to black people? Those people he was talking to weren't embarrassed for what they were doing, they were embarrassed for your friend, because he's a fucking terrible person. And I think he knows it, which is why he won't call a lawyer or raise a stink about it, because people would rightly think that he's a total slimebucket.

hjga · January 2010

matthasaproblem wrote: »

Septus wrote: »

I would not call Rich an African American any more than I'd call Dave Foley a Canadian American or someone with dual American/European citizenship, a European American.

Would those boxes on the college forms not be titled, Race?

"African American" isn't a race.

:edit: And if it is, it means someone born in Africa with American citizenship, or born from someone born in Africa with American citizenship. Which Rich meets the criteria for.

Yes, but the fact it's that it was never meant to engulf white African Americans. It has always been used colloquially as a proxy for "black".

I does suck, it is a big deal for OP's friend, what's more, for the sake of inclusion they should at least take him into consideration, but for all intents and purposes, we will be considered white wherever he is. It's more of linguistics issue than anything else.

Thanatos · January 2010

matthasaproblem wrote: »

Septus wrote: »

I would not call Rich an African American any more than I'd call Dave Foley a Canadian American or someone with dual American/European citizenship, a European American.

Would those boxes on the college forms not be titled, Race?

"African American" isn't a race.

:edit: And if it is, it means someone born in Africa with American citizenship, or born from someone born in Africa with American citizenship. Which Rich meets the criteria for.

In this country, "African American" is, in fact, a race. It's kinda like "cargo" goes on boats, and "shipping" goes in cars. Language isn't always literally true, and these little semantic games middle-class white people like to play go hand in hand with the "reverse racism" bullshit that is essentially the only way the KKK-type mentality gets into the mainstream anymore. It's just as bad as the n-word, but it's couched in nicer language so that privileged assholes can embrace while still saying "but some of my best friends are black!"

Aldo · January 2010

Thanatos wrote: »

The whole point of scholarships for African Americans is to encourage black people, who have historically been discriminated against--and continue to have many socio-economic factors working against them--to go to college. You know that. Your friend knows that. This is basically your friend using a load of pedantic bullshit to try to get some free money.

And really, it's fucking disgusting. He disgusts me. He is a terrible human being, though I probably shouldn't throw the "H-word" around quite so liberally in this case. Poor little rich white boy, whose family probably got by in Africa by fucking over as many black people as possible can't come over hear and yank out the very small leg up schools and groups try to give to black people? Those people he was talking to weren't embarrassed for what they were doing, they were embarrassed for your friend, because he's a fucking terrible person. And I think he knows it, which is why he won't call a lawyer or raise a stink about it, because people would rightly think that he's a total slimebucket.

Exactly what I was thinking.

Your friend tried to get free money on a technicality and the government was smart enough to catch on.

durandal4532 · January 2010

Thanatos wrote: »

The whole point of scholarships for African Americans is to encourage black people, who have historically been discriminated against--and continue to have many socio-economic factors working against them--to go to college. You know that. Your friend knows that. This is basically your friend using a load of pedantic bullshit to try to get some free money.

And really, it's fucking disgusting. He disgusts me. He is a terrible human being, though I probably shouldn't throw the "H-word" around quite so liberally in this case. Poor little rich white boy, whose family probably got by in Africa by fucking over as many black people as possible can't come over hear and yank out the very small leg up schools and groups try to give to black people? Those people he was talking to weren't embarrassed for what they were doing, they were embarrassed for your friend, because he's a fucking terrible person. And I think he knows it, which is why he won't call a lawyer or raise a stink about it, because people would rightly think that he's a total slimebucket.

Seriously.

You can find other money without being a big old silly goose and pretending you can't understand our craaaazy semantic system. You silly silly goose goose.

And I mean also generally social programs will not address every situation properly, the idea is simply to in general make things better overall. Also man tell your friend not to apply to US schools, particularly for undergrad. We are silly gooses hardcore. Apply to State U and every school in Canada. They're nicer, and they charge you lunch money per year.

NakedZergling · January 2010

Thanatos wrote: »

The whole point of scholarships for African Americans is to encourage black people, who have historically been discriminated against--and continue to have many socio-economic factors working against them--to go to college. You know that. Your friend knows that. This is basically your friend using a load of pedantic bullshit to try to get some free money.

And really, it's fucking disgusting. He disgusts me. He is a terrible human being, though I probably shouldn't throw the "H-word" around quite so liberally in this case. Poor little rich white boy, whose family probably got by in Africa by fucking over as many black people as possible can't come over hear and yank out the very small leg up schools and groups try to give to black people? Those people he was talking to weren't embarrassed for what they were doing, they were embarrassed for your friend, because he's a fucking terrible person. And I think he knows it, which is why he won't call a lawyer or raise a stink about it, because people would rightly think that he's a total slimebucket.

Wow i think we know who the terrible human is. You cast down judgment. His family is not rich. His family does a ton of work with outreach programs. His dad does tons of volunteer work, and the reason he's applying for scholarships is because he needs the aid to pay for school asshole. Our friend Trip who is black is WAY better off financially than Rich is. You're a pathetic prick who feels powerful by casting down judgments on-line. Way to go dipshit.

GungHo · January 2010

NakedZergling wrote: »

Am i wrong to be bothered by this?

Yes.

Arch · January 2010

Let me tell a similar story:

My friend was born in Africa. Her father was also born there (I don't know the specifics, but it had to do with missionary work). Her mother was an American citizen. Both are the whitest swans you have ever seen. Yet, this girl is considered an "african American" by my University, and was offered an "African American Student" scholarship. She turned it down.

Why?

"Because even though they SAY African-American, they don't mean 'A white girl who happens to have been born in Africa'".

She felt she was cheating the system, as she is not, and has never been , the oppressed minority that the scholarships were created to entice to higher education.

Feral · January 2010

"African-American" is a pretty stupid term for "black," because not all people from Africa are black, not all black people are recently removed from Africa, and we all had ancestry in Africa at some point.

The scholarships described here are for black people. The fact that they use a very poor descriptor, semantically, for "black" doesn't change that. Thanatos is right - a white African trying to get an African-American scholarship is trying to exploit a technicality.

If this thread is just a veiled bitch about affirmative action, maybe the OP could make that clear. Because if race-based scholarships are an issue, they're an issue regardless of what we call the race - it's the same whether we say they're for "blacks" or "African-Americans" or "darkies" or "n****rs."

If this thread is about "African-American" being a lame term for "black," well... there's a PC thread thattaway :arrow:

Sipex · January 2010

Yeah, the whole problem here is PC has finally screwed things up. The scholarships are only for 'African Americans' because the colleges can't say anything about their skin colour.

In the end though, yes, the scholarships should have the right to note that they apply to those who have the chance to be discriminated by due to skin colour.

Thanatos · January 2010

NakedZergling wrote: »

Thanatos wrote: »

The whole point of scholarships for African Americans is to encourage black people, who have historically been discriminated against--and continue to have many socio-economic factors working against them--to go to college. You know that. Your friend knows that. This is basically your friend using a load of pedantic bullshit to try to get some free money.

And really, it's fucking disgusting. He disgusts me. He is a terrible human being, though I probably shouldn't throw the "H-word" around quite so liberally in this case. Poor little rich white boy, whose family probably got by in Africa by fucking over as many black people as possible can't come over hear and yank out the very small leg up schools and groups try to give to black people? Those people he was talking to weren't embarrassed for what they were doing, they were embarrassed for your friend, because he's a fucking terrible person. And I think he knows it, which is why he won't call a lawyer or raise a stink about it, because people would rightly think that he's a total slimebucket.

Wow i think we know who the terrible human is. You cast down judgment. His family is not rich. His family does a ton of work with outreach programs. His dad does tons of volunteer work, and the reason he's applying for scholarships is because he needs the aid to pay for school asshole. Our friend Trip who is black is WAY better off financially than Rich is. You're a pathetic prick who feels powerful by casting down judgments on-line. Way to go dipshit.

You should ask him what his great-grandparents did in Africa. Probably his grandparents, too.

Bet they don't talk about it much.

SyphonBlue · January 2010

NakedZergling wrote: »

Thanatos wrote: »

The whole point of scholarships for African Americans is to encourage black people, who have historically been discriminated against--and continue to have many socio-economic factors working against them--to go to college. You know that. Your friend knows that. This is basically your friend using a load of pedantic bullshit to try to get some free money.

And really, it's fucking disgusting. He disgusts me. He is a terrible human being, though I probably shouldn't throw the "H-word" around quite so liberally in this case. Poor little rich white boy, whose family probably got by in Africa by fucking over as many black people as possible can't come over hear and yank out the very small leg up schools and groups try to give to black people? Those people he was talking to weren't embarrassed for what they were doing, they were embarrassed for your friend, because he's a fucking terrible person. And I think he knows it, which is why he won't call a lawyer or raise a stink about it, because people would rightly think that he's a total slimebucket.

Wow i think we know who the terrible human is. You cast down judgment. His family is not rich. His family does a ton of work with outreach programs. His dad does tons of volunteer work, and the reason he's applying for scholarships is because he needs the aid to pay for school asshole. Our friend Trip who is black is WAY better off financially than Rich is. You're a pathetic prick who feels powerful by casting down judgments on-line. Way to go dipshit.

Good thing there are tons of scholarships available that have nothing to do with race that he could have applied for.

Except he didn't.

He tried to pull a fast one and got caught and is now crying like a baby about it.

THEPAIN73 · January 2010

Arch wrote: »

Let me tell a similar story:

My friend was born in Africa. Her father was also born there (I don't know the specifics, but it had to do with missionary work). Her mother was an American citizen. Both are the whitest H-word you have ever seen. Yet, this girl is considered an "african American" by my University, and was offered an "African American Student" scholarship. She turned it down.

Might want to sensor that or just take it out..

Feral · January 2010

NakedZergling wrote: »

Wow i think we know who the terrible human is. You cast down judgment. His family is not rich. His family does a ton of work with outreach programs. His dad does tons of volunteer work, and the reason he's applying for scholarships is because he needs the aid to pay for school asshole. Our friend Trip who is black is WAY better off financially than Rich is. You're a pathetic prick who feels powerful by casting down judgments on-line. Way to go dipshit.

There is plenty of aid available to poor white kids. I was as poor as they come and pretty damn white and I had no problem getting grants.

If you feel that the scholarships are unfair, that does not give you a license to game a loophole to get money that's not for you.

Also, reported for multiple "silly goose" violations.

NakedZergling · January 2010

So all white people are evil Thanatos?
Do i have a right to bitch about everyone in this country because i'm native american?

Arch · January 2010

THEPAIN73 wrote: »

Arch wrote: »

Let me tell a similar story:

My friend was born in Africa. Her father was also born there (I don't know the specifics, but it had to do with missionary work). Her mother was an American citizen. Both are the whitest swans you have ever seen. Yet, this girl is considered an "african American" by my University, and was offered an "African American Student" scholarship. She turned it down.

Might want to sensor that.

fix'd?

Armored Gorilla · January 2010

Thanatos wrote: »

The whole point of scholarships for African Americans is to encourage black people, who have historically been discriminated against--and continue to have many socio-economic factors working against them--to go to college. You know that. Your friend knows that. This is basically your friend using a load of pedantic bullshit to try to get some free money.

And really, it's fucking disgusting. He disgusts me. He is a terrible human being, though I probably shouldn't throw the "H-word" around quite so liberally in this case. Poor little rich white boy, whose family probably got by in Africa by fucking over as many black people as possible can't come over here and yank out the very small leg up schools and groups try to give to black people? Those people he was talking to weren't embarrassed for what they were doing, they were embarrassed for your friend, because he's a fucking terrible person. And I think he knows it, which is why he won't call a lawyer or raise a stink about it, because people would rightly think that he's a total slimebucket.

Just brightening up the screen here.

Sipex · January 2010

Arch wrote: »

THEPAIN73 wrote: »

Arch wrote: »

Let me tell a similar story:

My friend was born in Africa. Her father was also born there (I don't know the specifics, but it had to do with missionary work). Her mother was an American citizen. Both are the whitest swans you have ever seen. Yet, this girl is considered an "african American" by my University, and was offered an "African American Student" scholarship. She turned it down.

Might want to sensor that.

fix'd?

A+

Ed321 · January 2010

Thanatos wrote: »

The whole point of scholarships for African Americans is to encourage black people, who have historically been discriminated against--and continue to have many socio-economic factors working against them--to go to college. You know that. Your friend knows that. This is basically your friend using a load of pedantic bullshit to try to get some free money.

And really, it's fucking disgusting. He disgusts me. He is a terrible human being, though I probably shouldn't throw the "H-word" around quite so liberally in this case. Poor little rich white boy, whose family probably got by in Africa by fucking over as many black people as possible can't come over here and yank out the very small leg up schools and groups try to give to black people? Those people he was talking to weren't embarrassed for what they were doing, they were embarrassed for your friend, because he's a fucking terrible person. And I think he knows it, which is why he won't call a lawyer or raise a stink about it, because people would rightly think that he's a total slimebucket.

At first I couldn't believe what anyone could say such an astronomically stupid thing.

Then I saw that it was Thanatos, and all was well.

Feral · January 2010

NakedZergling wrote: »

So all white people are evil Thanatos?

People, regardless of skin color, who try to use semantic loopholes to get money that wasn't intended for them are committing evil acts.

Arch · January 2010

NakedZergling wrote: »

So all white people are evil Thanatos?
Do i have a right to bitch about everyone in this country because i'm native american?

Probably.

NakedZergling · January 2010

OK
1) i stated that HE'S not bothered by it
2) the main issue i have is that "african american" should not mean "black"

can you have a black "Italian american" or is that reserved only for white people?

Feral · January 2010

NakedZergling wrote: »

2) the main issue i have is that "african american" should not mean "black"

Maybe we should have a PC thread.

Oh wait we already do.

Arch · January 2010

NakedZergling wrote: »

OK
1) i stated that HE'S not bothered by it
2) the main issue i have is that "african american" should not mean "black"

can you have a black "Italian american" or is that reserved only for white people?

We had this thread like a month ago. I dont think it ended well.

Thanatos · January 2010

NakedZergling wrote: »

So all white people are evil Thanatos?
Do i have a right to bitch about everyone in this country because i'm native american?

o_O

I don't think I said anything of the sort. I mean, I called your friend evil, but that's because he is. Because he obviously knows that what he's doing is a fucking awful thing to do, because if he really thought he was somehow being unfairly discriminated against, he'd be all over calling up news stations and a lawyer. But I think he knows that if he tried it, he'd get exactly what he has coming to him.

And I don't think you've answered my question, yet: what did his grandparents and great-grandparents do in Africa?

durandal4532 · January 2010

NakedZergling wrote: »

So all white people are evil Thanatos?
Do i have a right to bitch about everyone in this country because i'm native american?

Yes.

Don't you? Native Americans are allowed to be angry constantly because seriously I mean wow. You can even be angry at me specifically, I'm like 90% certain my family was around North America in the 1600's, probably just being the most evil they could manage.

Spoiler:

Aldo · January 2010

NakedZergling wrote: »

OK
1) i stated that HE'S not bothered by it
2) the main issue i have is that "african american" should not mean "black"

can you have a black "Italian american" or is that reserved only for white people?

No, the issue is that black should not get translated to "african american".

You think your friend should get money that is reserved for Americans with a dark skin colour because you like him and feel he could use the money. That's not a viable argument.

Now I wonder, are there any scholarships for poor immigrants, he might be able to apply for those? Or he could apply for normal scholarships for kids with poor parents. It's not like trying to convince the world that African Americans can be pale white Boers is the only way your pal can go to college.

Thanatos · January 2010

Ed321 wrote: »

Thanatos wrote: »

The whole point of scholarships for African Americans is to encourage black people, who have historically been discriminated against--and continue to have many socio-economic factors working against them--to go to college. You know that. Your friend knows that. This is basically your friend using a load of pedantic bullshit to try to get some free money.

And really, it's fucking disgusting. He disgusts me. He is a terrible human being, though I probably shouldn't throw the "H-word" around quite so liberally in this case. Poor little rich white boy, whose family probably got by in Africa by fucking over as many black people as possible can't come over here and yank out the very small leg up schools and groups try to give to black people? Those people he was talking to weren't embarrassed for what they were doing, they were embarrassed for your friend, because he's a fucking terrible person. And I think he knows it, which is why he won't call a lawyer or raise a stink about it, because people would rightly think that he's a total slimebucket.

At first I couldn't believe what anyone could say such an astronomically stupid thing.

Then I saw that it was Thanatos, and all was well.

Yeah, because there's no way any white people in Africa ever did anything bad to black people, right? I'm just unfairly stereotyping.

Feral · January 2010

Aldo wrote: »

Now I wonder, are there any scholarships for poor immigrants, he might be able to apply for those? Or he could apply for normal scholarships for kids with poor parents. It's not like trying to convince the world that African Americans can be pale white Boers is the only way your pal can go to college.

There's a ton of money available for poor kids regardless of race and there's zero excuse not to pursue it.

HKPacman420 · January 2010

I seem to recall a thread a couple years back in which some South African white kid was all pissy about not being included in the African heritage ceremony or something.

This isn't the same silly goose is it?

Ed321 · January 2010

Thanatos wrote: »

Ed321 wrote: »

Thanatos wrote: »

The whole point of scholarships for African Americans is to encourage black people, who have historically been discriminated against--and continue to have many socio-economic factors working against them--to go to college. You know that. Your friend knows that. This is basically your friend using a load of pedantic bullshit to try to get some free money.

And really, it's fucking disgusting. He disgusts me. He is a terrible human being, though I probably shouldn't throw the "H-word" around quite so liberally in this case. Poor little rich white boy, whose family probably got by in Africa by fucking over as many black people as possible can't come over here and yank out the very small leg up schools and groups try to give to black people? Those people he was talking to weren't embarrassed for what they were doing, they were embarrassed for your friend, because he's a fucking terrible person. And I think he knows it, which is why he won't call a lawyer or raise a stink about it, because people would rightly think that he's a total slimebucket.

At first I couldn't believe what anyone could say such an astronomically stupid thing.

Then I saw that it was Thanatos, and all was well.

Yeah, because there's no way any white people in Africa ever did anything bad to black people, right? I'm just unfairly stereotyping.

Wow, so now it's not "he's white and lived in Africa so his family probably subsist on the tears of Ethiopian orphans"?

NakedZergling · January 2010

Thanatos....You assuming that any white person in africa is bad is the same as a cop assuming any black guy driving a nice car stole it. both are wrong man.

PACMAN- no. i keep saying he's really not bothered by it. it was me being bothered because essentially african american scholarships really means "black scholarships" which i have no problem with. I understand why they're in place. I just feel soft PC speech doesn't really help anyone. If people are mad that he should have known it was for "dark skinned people" that proves my point. Why can't we just say what we mean in this stupid country?

Thanatos · January 2010

durandal4532 wrote: »

NakedZergling wrote: »

So all white people are evil Thanatos?
Do i have a right to bitch about everyone in this country because i'm native american?

Yes.

Don't you? Native Americans are allowed to be angry constantly because seriously I mean wow. You can even be angry at me specifically, I'm like 90% certain my family was around North America in the 1600's, probably just being the most evil they could manage.

I mean, yeah, pretty much. I know with about 99% surety that my ancestors were a bunch of dicks; I keep getting Facebook invites from black people with the same last name as me. Somehow, I'm doubting there were a lot of Scotsmen having consensual sex with liberated black people back in the day. I'd be pissed at my ancestors.

And really, shit, Andrew Jackson was basically Hitler to the Native American's Jews, and we put him on the goddamn $20 bill (as illustrated in that comic). If I were Native American, that shit would piss me off.

Tube · January 2010

Thanatos wrote: »

Yeah, because there's no way any white people in Africa ever did anything bad to black people, right? I'm just unfairly stereotyping.

Since you're ostensibly a moderator on these forums could you please make an attempt not to be so recklessly fucking stupid on them. I'd appreciate it.

Ed321 · January 2010

NakedZergling wrote: »

Thanatos....You assuming that any white person in africa is bad is the same as a cop assuming any black guy driving a nice car stole it. both are wrong man.

Shhh! Thanatos is driven by righteous anger, and therefore cannot be wrong.

Penny Arcade

African Americans

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