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[DnD 4E Discussion] ITT we all get behind gnomes.

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Posts

  • DelmainDelmain Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Executioner Axe to 2d6 brutal 2? Oh God.

    Delmain on
  • Mr_RoseMr_Rose 83 Blue Ridge Protects the Holy Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Pinfeldorf wrote: »
    Not sure it would matter. It'd only be good for weapons that have two dice (falchions, spiked chains etc.) as it essentially adds 4 to the top end of the damage. Bring bastard swords to d12 isn't very amazing, bringing Daggers to d6 is pretty good. Limit the enchant to Light Blades only and it'd probably be fine.
    Um, how does 2d4 -> 1d10 = +4 damage? I'll give you Flails and Mauls though.
    Good idea about the light blades. Maybe single-handed only would work too?
    Also I was considering it as an enhancement for Ranged weapons also.

    Mr_Rose on
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  • PinfeldorfPinfeldorf Yeah ZestRegistered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Delmain wrote: »
    Executioner Axe to 2d6 brutal 2? Oh God.

    I think we would have to invent a d14 for just this.

    Pinfeldorf on
  • hippofanthippofant ティンク Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Mr_Rose wrote: »
    Can someone check something in the CB for me? I want to confirm a bug: The new Rogue Weapon Talent (Sharpshooter Talent) from MP2 doesn't seem to be adding its hit bonus to my hand crossbow at level 1.

    Indeed it is not... unless I use a "crossbow" rather than a "hand crossbow". Not sure if this is a bug or intended.

    Edit: doesn't work for repeating nor superior crossbows either.

    hippofant on
  • PinfeldorfPinfeldorf Yeah ZestRegistered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Theoretically...if a Brawler talent fighter MCd into Artificer and took the Self-Forged pp, could they use their Battlefist as their empty hand? If so, could they use Battlefist/Spiked Shield? The CB is incredibly wonky with Spiked Shields, so it's hard to tell, but based on logic I'd say it should all work.

    The idea of someone who likes punching shit *so badly* he develops a mech arm just sounds amazingly awesome to me.

    Pinfeldorf on
  • RatherDashingRatherDashing Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Pinfeldorf wrote: »
    Shoggoth wrote: »
    I am shaking my head at the way they are handling implements and arcane classes in general.

    The way Arcane classes were handled in general made my very sad. Been DMing for my current group for about 8 sessions now, and the Warlock is doing less damage than the Two-Hand Fighter. And it's a Dwarf Warlock with nothing but Con vs N powers and 20 base Con, and he's just...missing more than the others. Of course, a Ranger spamming Twin Strike, as I understand it, is close to the top of the DPR in the game, but the Ranger is doing about the same damage as any two other players combined. The disparity is very apparent to me, and he's wishing he had made a Barbarian at this point.

    Well, warlocks have gotten a little love lately(infernal at least, anyways). Once Dragon 384 hits the CB, an infernal lock will be able to have his curse deal brutal d8s, and his boon causes 5 + 1/2 level fire damage to all enemies adjacent to the cursed enemy, and for one more feat, he can have his boon trigger when the foe drops to bloodied, as well as when they drop to zero. Of course, you are talking 4 feats to get there, so it's a little pricey... but not too shabby really.

    RatherDashing on
  • AmiguAmigu Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    So why do potions only work if you have a healing surge left? It seems so counterintuitive...

    Amigu on
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  • ProbadProbad Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Pinfeldorf wrote: »
    Theoretically...if a Brawler talent fighter MCd into Artificer and took the Self-Forged pp, could they use their Battlefist as their empty hand? If so, could they use Battlefist/Spiked Shield? The CB is incredibly wonky with Spiked Shields, so it's hard to tell, but based on logic I'd say it should all work.

    The idea of someone who likes punching shit *so badly* he develops a mech arm just sounds amazingly awesome to me.

    I think the Brawler build specifically says they can't have any sort of shield in that hand, but I'd have to look at it again.

    Probad on
  • ProbadProbad Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Amigu wrote: »
    So why do potions only work if you have a healing surge left? It seems so counterintuitive...

    They're a good way to spread healing out among the party. In the first party we ran in Marsh's game, once the warlord went down, that was it for healing, and anyone still on the ground was fucked. They just take some of the pressure off.

    Probad on
  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Probad wrote: »
    Amigu wrote: »
    So why do potions only work if you have a healing surge left? It seems so counterintuitive...

    They're a good way to spread healing out among the party. In the first party we ran in Marsh's game, once the warlord went down, that was it for healing, and anyone still on the ground was fucked. They just take some of the pressure off.

    I think the question is more along the lines of why doesn't the magic potion work on it's own.

    Fencingsax on
  • PotatoNinjaPotatoNinja Fake Gamer Goat Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Probad wrote: »
    Amigu wrote: »
    So why do potions only work if you have a healing surge left? It seems so counterintuitive...

    They're a good way to spread healing out among the party. In the first party we ran in Marsh's game, once the warlord went down, that was it for healing, and anyone still on the ground was fucked. They just take some of the pressure off.

    I think the question is more along the lines of why doesn't the magic potion work on it's own.

    To create a limitation on the ability to survive through healing. Without healing surges limiting your potion use, higher level characters could waltz around with healing-potion-beerhats and just regain 10 or 25 or whatever HP whenever they needed to in a fight.

    Having a finite resource used up when you heal means that simply outpacing damage done with healing done isn't enough. Eventually you will run out of surges.

    Also, to make durable classes feel durable and strikers less useful at playing the role of defender. A fighter with 100 HP and a rogue with 60 HP both regain the same number of HP from a healing potion. Without healing surges to differentiate the overall durability of the two classes, once you had sufficient healing the durability of a class would be significantly less relevant.

    Mostly I see it as a way to discourage excessive reliance on cheap healing. You need to balance out surges spent, HP regained, and powers used. Every character should have a few healing potions ready for emergencies, but the inefficiency of healing potions compared to other forms of healing, and the threat of running out of healing surges, reinforces the roles of leaders and defenders.

    PotatoNinja on
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  • PinfeldorfPinfeldorf Yeah ZestRegistered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Probad wrote: »
    Pinfeldorf wrote: »
    Theoretically...if a Brawler talent fighter MCd into Artificer and took the Self-Forged pp, could they use their Battlefist as their empty hand? If so, could they use Battlefist/Spiked Shield? The CB is incredibly wonky with Spiked Shields, so it's hard to tell, but based on logic I'd say it should all work.

    The idea of someone who likes punching shit *so badly* he develops a mech arm just sounds amazingly awesome to me.

    I think the Brawler build specifically says they can't have any sort of shield in that hand, but I'd have to look at it again.

    The shield counts as a weapon, though. I think this is the sort of thing that needs a specific ruling from an actual D&D employee type person.

    Pinfeldorf on
  • DelmainDelmain Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Spiked Shield is the most annoying thing in this game

    Delmain on
  • Mr_RoseMr_Rose 83 Blue Ridge Protects the Holy Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    hippofant wrote: »
    Mr_Rose wrote: »
    Can someone check something in the CB for me? I want to confirm a bug: The new Rogue Weapon Talent (Sharpshooter Talent) from MP2 doesn't seem to be adding its hit bonus to my hand crossbow at level 1.

    Indeed it is not... unless I use a "crossbow" rather than a "hand crossbow". Not sure if this is a bug or intended.

    Edit: doesn't work for repeating nor superior crossbows either.

    Thought so. The Feature says "crossbows" and refers to them as a "weapon group" so I'm pretty sure it's meant to get all types of crossbow, especially as the other interpretation makes it completely useless with the Rogue's default weapon proficiencies.

    Mr_Rose on
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  • AmiguAmigu Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Probad wrote: »
    Amigu wrote: »
    So why do potions only work if you have a healing surge left? It seems so counterintuitive...

    They're a good way to spread healing out among the party. In the first party we ran in Marsh's game, once the warlord went down, that was it for healing, and anyone still on the ground was fucked. They just take some of the pressure off.

    I think the question is more along the lines of why doesn't the magic potion work on it's own.

    To create a limitation on the ability to survive through healing. Without healing surges limiting your potion use, higher level characters could waltz around with healing-potion-beerhats and just regain 10 or 25 or whatever HP whenever they needed to in a fight.

    Having a finite resource used up when you heal means that simply outpacing damage done with healing done isn't enough. Eventually you will run out of surges.

    Also, to make durable classes feel durable and strikers less useful at playing the role of defender. A fighter with 100 HP and a rogue with 60 HP both regain the same number of HP from a healing potion. Without healing surges to differentiate the overall durability of the two classes, once you had sufficient healing the durability of a class would be significantly less relevant.

    Mostly I see it as a way to discourage excessive reliance on cheap healing. You need to balance out surges spent, HP regained, and powers used. Every character should have a few healing potions ready for emergencies, but the inefficiency of healing potions compared to other forms of healing, and the threat of running out of healing surges, reinforces the roles of leaders and defenders.

    Well put, that does make sense. I guess I just need to get my head around it because it works quite differently to how healing potions do in other games. It's more like a bolstering effect rather than a straight up cheap heal.

    Amigu on
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  • MikeMcSomethingMikeMcSomething Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    So Cognizance Crystal:

    Power (Consumable) Free Action. Trigger: You miss all targets with an augmented psionic attack power.
    Effect: You regain one power point.

    What's stopping you from eating like 12 when you miss with an augmented Psi power? Am I missing something in the rules about free actions?

    MikeMcSomething on
  • AmiguAmigu Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Yeah tha's strange, you'd think it would be a minor action.

    Amigu on
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  • MikeMcSomethingMikeMcSomething Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    It's tiered, too - the higher level ones restore more PPs but cost exponentially more.

    MikeMcSomething on
  • soxboxsoxbox Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    It can't be a minor action due to the trigger (though it could have a condition on it that you must have missed previously on the turn, but that would make it pretty crappy as your often spend your minor and move before your standard). What it needs is a:

    Special: You may only use one Cognizance Crystal per round.

    Though there may be a general rule that you can't trigger the same thing multiple times off the same trigger... though I could just be making that up and it's not actually written down anywhere - there's not a lot of at-will trigger effects, so it may not have been considered.

    soxbox on
  • MikeMcSomethingMikeMcSomething Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Yeah I don't see anything about that in the Action types section of the PHB - It just says "Some powers require a trigger but are free actions or aren't actions at all"

    MikeMcSomething on
  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Triggered actions only come in Free and Immediate varieties. The fact that it's Triggered, though, means you can't do it more than once per trigger.

    OptimusZed on
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  • DelmainDelmain Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    Triggered actions only come in Free and Immediate varieties. The fact that it's Triggered, though, means you can't do it more than once per trigger.

    This. You can only respond to a trigger once.

    Delmain on
  • AegeriAegeri Tiny wee bacteriums Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    edited March 2010
    All it means is you can keep spamming dishearten and mind thrust more anyway.

    Aegeri on
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  • MikeMcSomethingMikeMcSomething Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    Triggered actions only come in Free and Immediate varieties. The fact that it's Triggered, though, means you can't do it more than once per trigger.
    Yeah I don't see anything about that in the Action types section of the PHB - It just says "Some powers require a trigger but are free actions or aren't actions at all"

    MikeMcSomething on
  • MikeMcSomethingMikeMcSomething Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Aegeri wrote: »
    All it means is you can keep spamming dishearten and mind thrust more anyway.

    Another solid one would be the battlemind level 7 Lighning Rush - it would allow you the extra attack every round. You could MC into psion for a psi power with your dump stat for an almost-guaranteed miss.

    MikeMcSomething on
  • InfidelInfidel Heretic Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    I think you're missing that nice bold Consumable there.

    Infidel on
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  • TerrendosTerrendos Decorative Monocle Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Hmm... well I'm a jerk so I'd say that because it's a consumable you'd have to hold it in your hand for it to work. That way it's self-limiting so long as people can't draw things from their belt as a free action as well.

    Terrendos on
  • MikeMcSomethingMikeMcSomething Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Infidel wrote: »
    I think you're missing that nice bold Consumable there.

    I'm not seeing any usage restrictions related to the Consumable keyword.

    Did you actually have a specific rule in mind when you wrote this post?

    MikeMcSomething on
  • InfidelInfidel Heretic Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    You can't trigger it multiple times because it's gone?

    Infidel on
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  • MikeMcSomethingMikeMcSomething Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    They cost 40g

    MikeMcSomething on
  • MikeMcSomethingMikeMcSomething Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Terrendos wrote: »
    Hmm... well I'm a jerk so I'd say that because it's a consumable you'd have to hold it in your hand for it to work. That way it's self-limiting so long as people can't draw things from their belt as a free action as well.

    I'm pretty sure potions have specific wording with regards to this but normal wondrous item - consumables can like float around your head or hang around your neck.

    MikeMcSomething on
  • streeverstreever Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    If they have "quick draw" I believe they can draw it as "part of the action".
    I'm not seeing any usage restrictions related to the Consumable keyword.

    Mike I hope this is a clever sense of humor :-/. The very definition of the word consumable is.... well, consumable. As in "use-up-able".

    Sausage is a consumable. No one expects you to still have it when you've consumed it :)

    streever on
  • InfidelInfidel Heretic Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Terrendos wrote: »
    Hmm... well I'm a jerk so I'd say that because it's a consumable you'd have to hold it in your hand for it to work. That way it's self-limiting so long as people can't draw things from their belt as a free action as well.

    I'm pretty sure potions have specific wording with regards to this but normal wondrous item - consumables can like float around your head or hang around your neck.

    A DM reaps what he sows.

    This isn't an issue in any real game.

    Infidel on
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  • soxboxsoxbox Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    streever wrote: »
    Mike I hope this is a clever sense of humor :-/. The very definition of the word consumable is.... well, consumable. As in "use-up-able".

    Sausage is a consumable. No one expects you to still have it when you've consumed it :)

    Yes, but whoever bought just one sausage? We're talking multi-sausage madness! It's a sausage-fest! Nobody wants their game to become a sausage-fest.

    soxbox on
  • HachfaceHachface Not the Minister Farrakhan you're thinking of Dammit, Shepard!Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Anyone who brought up "consumable" as a balancing factor has clearly not thought this through.

    Hachface on
  • InfidelInfidel Heretic Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Hachface wrote: »
    Anyone who brought up "consumable" as a balancing factor has clearly not thought this through.

    INFINITE OREGANO

    Infidel on
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  • MikeMcSomethingMikeMcSomething Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Yes buying more than one thing that is meant to be consumed is just fucking mind-blowingly impossible.

    RPRP112-m.jpg

    MikeMcSomething on
  • InfidelInfidel Heretic Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Drink your Pepsi and have a fit over a non-issue, I'm not gonna stop ya anymore.

    Infidel on
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  • PinfeldorfPinfeldorf Yeah ZestRegistered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Yes buying more than one thing that is meant to be consumed is just fucking mind-blowingly impossible.

    RPRP112-m.jpg

    I know a Mike McSomething in Arizona that smokes plastic cigarettes. Do you smoke plastic cigarettes, too? Because you guys could hang out and smoke plastic cigarettes together and talk about how your names are almost the same.

    Pinfeldorf on
  • MikeMcSomethingMikeMcSomething Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Infidel wrote: »
    Drink your Pepsi and have a fit over a non-issue, I'm not gonna stop ya anymore.

    I asked whether the rules supported something. You said some stuff that wasn't at all related to the rules, and now are trying to indicate that I'm having a fit.

    If you didn't want to have this discussion, you didn't have to pretend you knew how consumables worked.

    MikeMcSomething on
This discussion has been closed.