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[Sorrow of Heaven] Mark of War

24

Posts

  • TSI|AwesomeTSI|Awesome Registered User regular
    REG Rysk wrote: »
    'God' is a relative term. Assume anything more powerful than my character needs to die. So don't outlevel me. No seriously, she'll murder you in her sleep.

    Also: Bastard Swords do not work with versatile duelist, even after I got the expertise feat. Don't know why, but I'm cool with not losing another heroic feat for an extra +1 to attack.

    Murder us...in her sleep?

    Nothing in the feat text says anything about Bastard Sword not working with Versatile Duelist. But whatever. Maybe I'll take a look at character builder later.

    I'll also make a mock up of my paladin.

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  • PinfeldorfPinfeldorf Registered User regular
    REG Rysk wrote: »
    'God' is a relative term. Assume anything more powerful than my character needs to die. So don't outlevel me. No seriously, she'll murder you in her sleep.

    Also: Bastard Swords do not work with versatile duelist, even after I got the expertise feat. Don't know why, but I'm cool with not losing another heroic feat for an extra +1 to attack.

    Murder us...in her sleep?

    Nothing in the feat text says anything about Bastard Sword not working with Versatile Duelist. But whatever. Maybe I'll take a look at character builder later.

    I'll also make a mock up of my paladin.

    It's just a CB bug, ignore it.

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  • REG RyskREG Rysk Lord Rageface Rageington Registered User regular
    Again, one feat for +1 to attack. I'm fine if we have a melee heavy party so I can get CA. I won't be as accurate as a dagger rogue, but I will do lots of damage with my powers. I'm not worried. If it took my damage die to a d12 and gave me a +3 prof bonus, then maybe.

  • TSI|AwesomeTSI|Awesome Registered User regular
    REG Rysk wrote: »
    Again, one feat for +1 to attack. I'm fine if we have a melee heavy party so I can get CA. I won't be as accurate as a dagger rogue, but I will do lots of damage with my powers. I'm not worried. If it took my damage die to a d12 and gave me a +3 prof bonus, then maybe.

    True. I could see a lot of feats before it. Backstabber, that ranger multiclass, versatile duelist. Still, its something to keep in mind when you run out of must have feats for the build.

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  • TerrendosTerrendos Decorative Monocle Registered User regular
    Maybe I'm crazy but the Silver Flame is totally the best. Who cares they might have all but completely eradicated all lycanthropes from the world? They're awesome.

    And I had another idea that might be a bit more thematic for The Mechanist. Rather than a superior crossbow reflavored as a rifle, what do you (Aegeri) think of a grapple gun? Basically just a crossbow-like device that, over the course of the campaign, he modifies to have additional uses. So for example the first one might be that it launches a rope that can make climbing cliffs easier. Then later he attaches the end of the rope to a spring on the gun, and he can use it like Batman's Batgrapple. Eventually he could use it to pull a hit enemy a square or two, stuff like that.

    If you don't like it I'm totally fine with a regular rifle, or even just a plain superior crossbow. Of course, a superior crossbow isn't very befitting of a gadgeteer.

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  • AegeriAegeri Registered User regular
    Terrendos wrote:
    Who cares they might have all but completely eradicated all lycanthropes from the world?

    It was actually justified in many ways, because the kind of Lycanthropy that was spreading was obscenely destructive and harmful, that there were "good" lychanthropes that got purged doesn't change what they did was ultimately the right thing to do.

    I think that the ideal way of handling that actually isn't to make new mechanics, instead it's to say that rather than the Mechanists powers providing effects because of magic, they do so because of enhancements to the weapon. For example, a power that pulls 2 is because of a device that pulls and not a magical effect (and so forth). The powers don't strictly have to work by magic and this makes things mechanically indistinct while maintaining a different kind of flavor.

  • TerrendosTerrendos Decorative Monocle Registered User regular
    I was thinking more along the lines of him having a single device with several different item daily powers, and he chooses 1 of them. Once he uses one, they're all expended. He could conceivably recharge it once with his Arcane Empowerment feature but that's it.

    EDIT: And of course, he would modify said weapon at the cost of wondrous item purchases. He certainly shouldn't get these for free or anything.

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  • AegeriAegeri Registered User regular
    I think that can be accomplished with other means as well, for example a magical flaming longsword would instead be a kind of changed weapon, that rather than being powered magically would be powered by a kind of liquid device that enflames the blade instead. Same sort of mechanics, but different flavor and mechanism behind how it works.

    Here is the racial summary (Mechanics mostly) of the Hobgoblin. If you need more information on Hobgoblins in Eberron please ask!
    Hobgoblin
    Average Height: 6'1 - 6'5"
    Average Weight: 190-240lb

    Ability Scores: +2 con, +2 dex or +2 cha
    Size: Medium
    Speed: 6 squares
    Vision: Low-light
    Languages: Common, Goblin
    Skill Bonuses: +2 Athletics, +2 History
    Battle Ready: You gain a +2 bonus to initiative checks.
    Flanking Maneuver: You gain a +2 bonus to speed in the first round of any combat.
    Hobgoblin Resilience: You can use hobgoblin resilience as an encounter power.

    Hobgoblin Resilience
    Encounter
    Immediate Reaction; Personal
    Trigger: You suffer an effect that a save can end.
    Effect: You make a saving throw against the effect.
    Racial Feats:
    Heroic Tier

    Expert Ambusher
    Prerequisite: Hobgoblin, trained in stealth
    Benefit: You gain a +3 bonus instead of the regular +2 bonus from combat advantage when you attack an enemy you are hidden from or have total concealment against.

    Gatekeeper
    Prerequisite: Hobgoblin, any primal or arcane class
    Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus to damage and a +2 bonus to will defense against creatures with the aberration, elemental and immortal origin.

    House Deneith Mercenary
    Prerequisite: Hobgoblin
    Benefit: Choose from bows, heavy blades or axes. You gain a +1 feat bonus to attack rolls and +2 feat bonus to damage rolls with any weapon power you use with a weapon from that group. The bonuses increase to +2 attack and +3 damage at 15th level and +3 attack and +4 damage at 25th level.

    Two-handed Weapon Mastery
    Prerequisite: Hobgoblin, 14 con
    Benefit: You gain a +1 bonus to AC while wielding a weapon in two-hands and a +2 damage bonus with two handed weapons.

    Improved Resilience
    Prerequisite: Hobgoblin, Hobgoblin Resilience racial power
    Benefit: You gain a +3 bonus to your saving throw granted by hobgoblin resilience. This bonus increases to +4 at 11th level and +5 at 21st level.

    Lasting Resistance
    Prerequisite: Hobgoblin, Hobgoblin Resilience racial power
    Benefit: You do not expend your hobgoblin resilience racial power if you fail your save.

    Phalanx Leader
    Prerequisite: Hobgoblin
    Benefit: An enemy marked by you suffers a -3 penalty to their attacks that do not include you instead of the usual -2 penalty.

    Resilient Riposte
    Prerequisite: Hobgoblin, any primal or arcane class
    Benefit: When you save against an effect an enemy imposes on you with your hobgoblin resilience power you may make a free ranged at-will attack against the triggering enemy.

    Paragon and Epic feats will come later. I will tell you there is an epic feat that makes Hobgoblin Resilience an immediate interrupt. I might add a few more if I get inspiration later as well, but I'll leave it at this for now.

  • TerrendosTerrendos Decorative Monocle Registered User regular
    That's fine then, I'll just stick with the "rifle." As a Renaissance weapons aficionado, it will be interesting to use an arquebus or similar.

    You were okay with that, right? If I reflavor the Superior Crossbow into a gun? I figure I'll be enchanting it myself anyway, so there's no reason it can't be something bananas.

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  • AegeriAegeri Registered User regular
    Yeah, I am fine with that.

  • TSI|AwesomeTSI|Awesome Registered User regular
    Ok, I've got a mockup:

    ====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
    Marhu
    level 1
    Hobgoblin, Paladin

    FINAL ABILITY SCORES
    Str 16, Con 11, Dex 15, Int 10, Wis 8, Cha 18.

    STARTING ABILITY SCORES
    Str 16, Con 11, Dex 13, Int 10, Wis 8, Cha 16.


    AC: 20 Fort: 14 Reflex: 15 Will: 15
    HP: 26 Surges: 10 Surge Value: 6

    TRAINED SKILLS
    Religion +5, Intimidate +9, Endurance +1, Diplomacy +9

    UNTRAINED SKILLS
    Acrobatics -2, Arcana, Bluff +4, Dungeoneering -1, Heal -1, History +2, Insight -1, Nature -1, Perception -1, Stealth -2, Streetwise +4, Thievery -2, Athletics +1

    FEATS
    Level 1: Weapon Proficiency (Bastard sword)

    POWERS
    Lay on Hands: Virtue's Touch
    Paladin at-will 1: Ardent Strike
    Paladin at-will 1: Enfeebling Strike
    Paladin encounter 1: Valorous Smite
    Paladin daily 1: Majestic Halo

    ITEMS
    Bastard sword, Plate Armor, Heavy Shield

    Design explanations:
    Dumping wisdom was an interesting choice, but there's surprising justification for it. Having a high strength means I don't have to limit my power choices, it lets me easily qualify for weapon feats, it leads to much stronger defenses, and it makes my mark much stronger with mighty challenge. Also, keep in mind, the best benefits from Wisdom, multiple uses of your Paladin power, gets its first effect at 14 points; that's a big investment for one more use of a power. Finally, having an Artificer in the party means the most powerful effect of Lay on Hands, distributing healing surges, is unnecessary. That's also why I went with Virtue's Touch; that and Virtue's Touch felt more appropriate for the character.

    I'll post background information later.

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  • TerrendosTerrendos Decorative Monocle Registered User regular
    Does a person have to have a dragonmark to work for one of the dragonmarked houses? It makes sense for The Mechanist to have worked for House Cannith during the war, but obviously he's not dragonmarked.

    Also, how much of our backstory/stuff do you want here and how much told via PM? I presume any character secrets would be PMed.

    EDIT: Also, if he's born into a dragonmarked house (say his parents are dragonmarked or whatever) then he's gotta have that d' prefix thing before his last name, correct?

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  • AegeriAegeri Registered User regular
    No, you do not need to have a dragonmark to work for one of the houses, bearing in mind not everyone develops a mark at the same time (usually around puberty) and they may just feel you are a late developer (or perhaps passed you over in the house because they feel you won't manifest the mark, you could be all bitter about that if you wanted). You can just PM me anything you want to mention outside that.

    Yes, you should have that prefix - especially if it was one of the upper echelons of the house. Not everyone in a dragonmarked house is dragonmarked, but only those in high positions are IIRC.

  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    Typically, no and yes.

    Also, whomever said there were 9 gods... Unless they massively changed things for 4e there are 12, 6 good and 6 bad. (plus the silver flame, Vol, Dragon below). Plus all that "shit more powerful than Vol" Stuff. Canonically there is nothing Epic in Eberron and the Druid and Vol top out at that point. Yes, they're going to be individually stronger than the Lords of Dust

    Or are you talking about stuff that Aegeri changed?

  • AegeriAegeri Registered User regular
    The Gods/Religions in 4E Eberron are:

    The Sovereign Host (9 Deities)
    The Dark Six (6 Deities, obviously)
    Silver Flame
    Path of Light
    The Blood of Vol
    The Elf Religions (which has two parts):
    A) The Undying Court
    B) The Spirits of the Past
    Khyber Cults (Of which there can be bazillions)

    So tbh there are six major religions, but there are a lot more potential individual deities beyond those (as two have a bunch of deities each). This discounts cults from Khyber. There is also Vulkoor (Xen'drik, Vulkoori drow), the Promise of Fire (Sulatar) and I forget what zany religion the Umbragen have.

    If the Gods actually exist or not is up for considerable debate though.

  • TSI|AwesomeTSI|Awesome Registered User regular
    Goumindong wrote: »
    Typically, no and yes.

    Also, whomever said there were 9 gods... Unless they massively changed things for 4e there are 12, 6 good and 6 bad. (plus the silver flame, Vol, Dragon below). Plus all that "shit more powerful than Vol" Stuff. Canonically there is nothing Epic in Eberron and the Druid and Vol top out at that point. Yes, they're going to be individually stronger than the Lords of Dust

    Or are you talking about stuff that Aegeri changed?

    No, there's always been 9 good gods.
    Arawai Good Agriculture, fertility, nature bronze and green Octogram; sheaf of wheat
    Aureon Unaligned Law, knowledge, arcane magic black and white Octogram; open tome
    Balinor Unaligned Animals, the hunt brown and red Octogram; silhouetted antlers
    Boldrei Lawful Good Hearth, community, government orange and gray Octogram; fire in a stone hearth
    Dol Arrah Lawful Good Honor, sacrifice, the sun, light yellow-gold and white Octogram; rising sun
    Dol Dorn Good Just war, competition red and silver Octogram; longsword on a shield
    Kol Korran Unaligned Wealth, commerce, trade, thievery gold and silver Octogram; gold coin
    Olladra Good Good fortune, plenty white and dark gray Octogram; domino
    Onatar Good Crafts, fire, tools, innovation red and orange Octogram; crossed smith tools

    Don't know where you missed them, but it's always been this way.

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  • TerrendosTerrendos Decorative Monocle Registered User regular
    Okay, here's the first run for my character, Dr. Tybalt Aedificus:
    Spoiler:
    N.B.: all feats/powers/etc. are subject to change when my CB gets updated eventually.

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  • TSI|AwesomeTSI|Awesome Registered User regular
    Terrendos wrote: »
    Okay, here's the first run for my character, Dr. Tybalt Aedificus:
    Spoiler:
    N.B.: all feats/powers/etc. are subject to change when my CB gets updated eventually.

    Pretty good. I assume you're planning to take the Crossbow Caster feat so your implement powers don't lag behind?

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  • TerrendosTerrendos Decorative Monocle Registered User regular
    Yeah, that's probably my level 2 feat. I'd take it already but a) it's not in my CB yet and b) I took Speed Loader because I'm thinking I'll need my minor action to heal people. It's not like I'm a Ranger and if I lose my minor action I just can't quarry. When I don't have a minor action... people die.

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  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    STARTING ABILITY SCORES
    Str 16, Con 9, Dex 15, Int 10, Wis 8, Cha 16.

    That is not a legal starting attribute distribution only 1 stat can start at 8

    Questions:

    Anyway, i think I am going to go with the Hobgoblin Bard/Seeker. So you don't have to worry about "oh shit people will die" if you don't have your minor action.

    And i am taking a much more "martial" rather than mystical view of powers granted from bard/seeker abilities. Its all special arrows and shit.

  • AegeriAegeri Registered User regular
    And level 1 will be a gentler and kinder experience in Mark of War compared to my other games. I've thought quite a bit about making low level DnD challenging, without accidentally squishing people. Admittedly, this is because I felt awful for killing 3 of my friends characters.

    Edit: Also, I forgot to mention this if you don't want to pick a specific mark from the OP or whatever you can be given an entirely random mark.

    It is possible to have the mark removed as well.

  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    Oh and whomever was worried about not getting crits on crossbows. Bow Mastery applies to crossbows and doesn't have any requirement except lvl 21

  • TSI|AwesomeTSI|Awesome Registered User regular
    Goumindong wrote: »
    STARTING ABILITY SCORES
    Str 16, Con 9, Dex 15, Int 10, Wis 8, Cha 16.

    That is not a legal starting attribute distribution only 1 stat can start at 8

    Questions:

    Anyway, i think I am going to go with the Hobgoblin Bard/Seeker. So you don't have to worry about "oh shit people will die" if you don't have your minor action.

    And i am taking a much more "martial" rather than mystical view of powers granted from bard/seeker abilities. Its all special arrows and shit.

    Urgh. I misread Aegeri's statblock, and somehow apparently missed the stat allocation in every single conversation I had with him. I thought it was +Cha/+Dex or Con, which would fit a paladin very well, but nope, it was +Con/+Dex or +Cha, which fits...I dunno, Assassins? That's the only class I can think of. Whatever.

    To be honest, now I'm kind of just looking at Wardens right now because of that. A Warforged Warden is looking pretty awesome right now. I may just roll that instead.

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  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    Why does a Paladin need dex(for heavy blades)? And/or why do you need strength?

    Why not go for axes and go con/cha or go heavy blades and go Cha/Dex?

  • AegeriAegeri Registered User regular
    You need strength for mighty challenge, which gives you a bonus to your mark damage (and with solid charisma as well, you get strength + charisma for more damage overall than just charisma alone) and strength paladins are no longer the bitch of the paladin world (some really good strength based powers now).

  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    Well, lacking strength isn't the end of the world. On the other hand, paragon paths for prescient bards and seekers are really hard to come by. Wooo, i can make ranged basic attacks... with no 10 dexterity.

  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    Is there any way that i can get ranged basic attacks/at-wills from another class without paragon multi-classing or Hybriding?

  • PinfeldorfPinfeldorf Registered User regular
    Goumindong wrote: »
    Is there any way that i can get ranged basic attacks/at-wills from another class without paragon multi-classing or Hybriding?

    Half-Elf? Only thing I can think of.

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  • illgottengainsillgottengains Registered User regular
    So.. As it stands we have

    TSI = Pally or warden
    Terrendos = Artificer
    Goum = Bard/seeker
    Rysk = Rogue

    ... I'm thinking that my character should probably help to round the party composition out somehow. The way I see it now is that we're going to be a little light on the damage and control aspects. Healing really shouldn't be an issue so I may scrap the paladin for something like a halberd fighter. Reach and push/pull should help with the control aspect while fighters damage isn't too shabby either.

    If anyone has another suggestion here I'm open to ideas. My main thing is that I don't want the party to be too reliant on the healing due to low damage. I could see that being a real issue with solo encounters as we progress.

  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    Solo encounters will be no big deal IMO. I am focusing my bard on damage boosting, which, while not as good as a warlord, the archer warlords just don't seem to fit for me. It does not feel right.

    Note: I will be multi-classing into warlord and so will get some of their powers/abilities/whatever to help out a bit. I just can't seem to get a freaking ranged basic attack as anything but an encounter power :(

  • illgottengainsillgottengains Registered User regular
    Are we receiving the freebie weapon/imp expertise in this game or no?

  • TSI|AwesomeTSI|Awesome Registered User regular
    Honestly, I'm just disappointed because Aegeri made such a big deal about Hobgoblins being able to use swords effectively and working on things, but by design I'm just not encouraged to use Swords at all. Con/Dex seems like it's positive toward Swords, but in practice Strength/Dexterity is such a better mix up that its just not even a fair comparison. The only class that Con/Dex really favors is assassins. Maybe Barbarians a little but Str/Dex is still better overall. Anyways, I feel I've got two options:

    1. Go for an axe build for my paladin which unfortunately will be generally inferior in general to my original idea; I'll lose 3 reflex by epic, which was already my weakest defense, so that sucks. Its still a solid build, its just worse overall and it makes me wonder why I don't just play a Drow or something.

    2. Fuck it and go for that Warforged Warden. He's made of brick and Wardens look like they have amazing space control with their powers, which, considering how few party members we have, may be something incredibly valuable.

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  • illgottengainsillgottengains Registered User regular
    Ok this is what I'm looking at for the moment. I'll probably grab a ranger MC to help out a bit with the ranged damage angle, which appears to be our weak point thus far. I'm assuming that we are not getting the freebie wep/imp expertise feat here. I think this build should work out well in the end. I've got a nice even defense spread and I should be able to easily get all the tasty feats I'll be wanting later on. The only issue that I can see with it is that I haven't maxxed my attack rolls. I may need to rework that a bit. I'll probably just drop the con down to boast my str if it becomes an issue.
    Spoiler:

  • REG RyskREG Rysk Lord Rageface Rageington Registered User regular
    A halberd fighter is neat, but that's one less flanking partner for my rogue if you stay at reach.

    Another melee class would probably be ideal. Go for 3 melee and 2 ranged, which Terrendos and Goum would both be ranged.

  • TSI|AwesomeTSI|Awesome Registered User regular
    Ok this is what I'm looking at for the moment. I'll probably grab a ranger MC to help out a bit with the ranged damage angle, which appears to be our weak point thus far. I'm assuming that we are not getting the freebie wep/imp expertise feat here. I think this build should work out well in the end. I've got a nice even defense spread and I should be able to easily get all the tasty feats I'll be wanting later on. The only issue that I can see with it is that I haven't maxxed my attack rolls. I may need to rework that a bit. I'll probably just drop the con down to boast my str if it becomes an issue.
    Spoiler:

    Looks pretty solid, and makes it less necessary for me to go for the warden build since two defenders would be more than enough.

    Only thought is, I would lean more toward Glaive than Halberd. Your stats favor Heavy Blade Mastery over Axe Mastery, and Heavy Blades have some nice damn feats. Plus, Githzerai get the Githzerai Blademaster feat which is solid as hell.

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  • illgottengainsillgottengains Registered User regular
    Hm. Looking at the glaive vs halberd thing I see your point here.. the average damage will be higher in heroic tier and total possible damage goes up in PT and ET.. a solid choice.

    As far as the flanking thing goes I won't be shying away from an adjacent fight. I want the reach to be able to smack foes when they might not be expecting it and to help out with the control issue.

    I feel like it's a good choice given that we're lacking a pure controller and probably a little light on the damage angle.

  • TSI|AwesomeTSI|Awesome Registered User regular
    True, but for artificers are the kings of buffs in 4e, and bards are pretty solid for helping out a party too, so I don't think I'll be too worried about damage. We'll also probably be very, very hard to kill with two healers and two tanks.

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  • REG RyskREG Rysk Lord Rageface Rageington Registered User regular
    And I will murder everything. Sounds good.

  • TSI|AwesomeTSI|Awesome Registered User regular
    New sheet after learning that Aegeri mades words terrible for hobgoblins.
    Spoiler:

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  • AegeriAegeri Registered User regular
    2 defenders / 2 leaders and 1 striker is a very solid party. In fact it is remarkably hard to go wrong with a two leader party of any sort.

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