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OtherOS fallout, Sony's changed the EULA now. It's not good. [Page 8]

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Posts

  • Unco-ordinatedUnco-ordinated Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Kainy wrote: »
    Kainy wrote: »
    Given that they're turning the ability to download and play PS2 games into a cash cow, I wouldn't put it past them.

    I'm not saying THIS AMS GOING TO HAPPSN! However, I consider removing features, and hell, how they've treated BC with the PS3 in general, to be on par with how stupid of a move it would be, thus placing it in the realm of possibility in my mind.

    You're still talking absolute shit though. They've said nothing about being able to download and play PS2 games off the PSN. And seeing as you can both play PS1 games off the PSN and the original CD releases, Sony have set a precedent that they wouldn't remove PS2 disc support.

    They've never said anything about downloading PS2 games on the PSN, eh?

    Internal SCEA documents procured by Objectif-Sega seem to disagree with that.

    You took that long to reply with some unofficial leaked documents? Nice work there.

    And you clearly have no clue what the hell you're talking about if you think they've ever had software PS2 emulation in the PS3. Emulating the Emotion Engine? Sure, that's easy. Emulating the Graphics Synthesizer, including the crazy fast bandwidth between the processor itself and its video RAM? Probably impossible on the PS3.

    So no, you're not just trying to connect the dots, you're actually drawing most of the dots yourself.

    Steam ID - LiquidSolid170 | PSN ID - LiquidSolid
  • DirtyDirty Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Exactly, all PS2 compatibility on PS3 has involved at least some kind of hardware. It has never been fully emulated. Like Unco said, PS2 emulation may never be possible on the PS3. Any PS2 Classics that end up on PSN will likely be ports, kind of like how God Of War 1&2 were ported to PS3.

    I will say this again. If Sony was going to remove PS2 playback to encourage people to re-buy the games for PS3, then why does the PS3 still accept PS1 discs?

  • ThreepioThreepio New Westminster, BCRegistered User regular
    edited April 2010
    I keep seeing people posting about class action lawsuits regarding the removal of this feature. I was totally down to get in on one. I went back to the original box for my PS3, and sure enough, Other OS was advertised there.

    The box, however, didn't say anything about in-game XMB, trophies, Life with PlayStation, or any of the other features added through firmware updates. I guess it's not the case for everyone, but it reduced my ire.

    I mean, I poked at the slope... it doesn't seem that slippery. Hearing people say "well what happens when they start removing gaming functions" makes me chuckle. They don't seriously think that's a possibility... do they?

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  • amnesiasoftamnesiasoft Thick Creamy Furry Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Threepio wrote: »
    They don't seriously think that's a possibility... do they?
    This is Sony. Anything involving "Stupidity" and "Sony" is a possibility.

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  • KelorKelor Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Dirty wrote: »
    Anyone who is suggesting that Sony will remove PS2 BC from existing BC units to push PS2 Classics should shut the fuck up until Sony removes PS1 BC from existing units to push PS1 Classics.

    Given that they said the reason they removed BC from PS3s in the first place was because people were still just buying PS2 games instead of new shiny PS3 ones I can absolutely believe they want to flog their back catalogue over PSN.


    As long as they restore the ability to play your old physical PS2 games at the same time as they do this I am fine with it.

  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Zhu-Li, do the thing! Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Kelor wrote: »
    Dirty wrote: »
    Anyone who is suggesting that Sony will remove PS2 BC from existing BC units to push PS2 Classics should shut the fuck up until Sony removes PS1 BC from existing units to push PS1 Classics.

    Given that they said the reason they removed BC from PS3s in the first place was because people were still just buying PS2 games instead of new shiny PS3 ones I can absolutely believe they want to flog their back catalogue over PSN.


    As long as they restore the ability to play your old physical PS2 games at the same time as they do this I am fine with it.

    Considering Sony took out the hardware-based components necessary to play PS2 games, that ain't happening.

    3DS: 0344-9335-6762
  • DehumanizedDehumanized Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    They could if they ported the games that they wanted to sell GoW collection style. That's pretty dependent on developer interest and how hard it actually is to port the games over, though.

    Ultimately pretty unlikely.

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  • -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Bluepoint said the only reason God of War 1 and 2 were easy to port was because they were written completely in C, which is easy to bring to the PS3. All up it took about 7 weeks. So it not only depends on developer interest, but also if they came up with their own scripting language and how difficult that is to bring over.

  • DehumanizedDehumanized Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Makes a lot of sense.

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  • Mr_GrinchMr_Grinch Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    There was talk of Ico and SOTC being ported to PS3 prior to The Last Guardian release. I'm at work so can't dig out the quote right now but he lead designer said he was DEFINITELY interested in doing this but it may involve a lot of work due to how the engine worked. I believe SOTC used lots of weird hardware glitches to get it looking as good as it did.

    Steam: Sir_Grinch
    PSN: SirGrinchX
    Xbox Live: SirGrinch X
  • Unco-ordinatedUnco-ordinated Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Mr_Grinch wrote: »
    There was talk of Ico and SOTC being ported to PS3 prior to The Last Guardian release. I'm at work so can't dig out the quote right now but he lead designer said he was DEFINITELY interested in doing this but it may involve a lot of work due to how the engine worked. I believe SOTC used lots of weird hardware glitches to get it looking as good as it did.

    Fumito Ueda did say he was interested in doing so. I'm pretty sure everything else you said is just speculation. And no, there were no 'hardware glitches' (sorry but that makes no sense at all), what Team Ico did is manage to 'fake' a lot of different features that the PS2 was just not powerful enough to support. Polyphony Digital managed to pull off some similarly crazy stuff on the PS2.

    Steam ID - LiquidSolid170 | PSN ID - LiquidSolid
  • Mr_GrinchMr_Grinch Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Mr_Grinch wrote: »
    There was talk of Ico and SOTC being ported to PS3 prior to The Last Guardian release. I'm at work so can't dig out the quote right now but he lead designer said he was DEFINITELY interested in doing this but it may involve a lot of work due to how the engine worked. I believe SOTC used lots of weird hardware glitches to get it looking as good as it did.

    Fumito Ueda did say he was interested in doing so. I'm pretty sure everything else you said is just speculation. And no, there were no 'hardware glitches' (sorry but that makes no sense at all), what Team Ico did is manage to 'fake' a lot of different features that the PS2 was just not powerful enough to support. Polyphony Digital managed to pull off some similarly crazy stuff on the PS2.
    "I do have an interest in that. Next week, I'll have a meeting [about the possibility] ... But it might not be so easy, because, with both titles we really stretched the limits of the PS2. It's complex. So it's not such an easy transfer to the PS3. But I want to discuss it."

    Is the quote I was referring to regarding the difficulty. Original article at:

    http://www.destructoid.com/fumito-ueda-wants-team-ico-games-ported-to-ps3-169738.phtml

    And you're right, I didn't mean "Hardware Glitches", that was wrong. I more meant a lot of the techniques they used were specifically tailored to exploit the hardware in the PS2, emulating them would be extremely difficult.

    Steam: Sir_Grinch
    PSN: SirGrinchX
    Xbox Live: SirGrinch X
  • Mr_GrinchMr_Grinch Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    I'm guessing it'll be easy for Sony to spot though. I'm currently using the proxy trick so I can get online and stay at a lower firmware. My Linux install is useful.

    Steam: Sir_Grinch
    PSN: SirGrinchX
    Xbox Live: SirGrinch X
  • Eight RooksEight Rooks Registered User
    edited April 2010
    the weird thing is... i never used the other OS feature and would've updated my ps3 and forgotten about it... but i haven't turned it on in a few weeks... and since the prospect of having custom firmware intrigues me i just might go through with this

    And so it begins.

    Oh, well. Still the longest a system's gone without the pirates getting to it.

    And don't even start with the slippery slope/strawman accusations; you know that while this commentator might well be a good little boy/girl/humanoid who's never dreamt of doing anything illegal or immoral with their console, there will be thousands upon thousands thinking the exact same thing followed by 'Awright! Free stuff for all!' and GeoHot is deluded if he thinks any different.

    I wouldn't be so bothered if he'd just say 'I accept I'm opening the doors for rampant piracy, but that's not my problem'. I'd still think he was a tool, but at least he'd have the decency to be open about it.

    And unenforceable or not, the legal boilerplate for the PSN basically says you're granting Sony the right to do whatever they want to your console and to the PSN by connecting. Can't say it said the same thing way back when the first PS3s were released! But it was certainly there before Sony decided they h4t3d my precious Linux.

    <AtlusParker> Sorry I'm playing Pokemon and vomiting at the same time so I'm not following the conversation in a linear fashion.

    Read my book. (It has a robot in it.)
  • Mr_GrinchMr_Grinch Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    I don't think the firmware is overly "Custom" in that sense, I believe he's just mashed together a couple of signed updates (for want of a more technical explanation). There's no running of his own code.

    Steam: Sir_Grinch
    PSN: SirGrinchX
    Xbox Live: SirGrinch X
  • Mr_GrinchMr_Grinch Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Follow up:

    http://www.playstationuniversity.com/ps3-owner-refunded-without-return-for-missing-other-os-3555/

    Someone has got a partial refund for their PS3 through Amazon due to the removal of OtherOS.

    Steam: Sir_Grinch
    PSN: SirGrinchX
    Xbox Live: SirGrinch X
  • -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Man, I really don't see piracy becoming big on the PS3. They tend to fill up their exclusives blu rays with 30 gigs of uncompressed audio. Downloading a 50 gig game just because it's got that much uncompressed audio isn't an enticing prospect. And multiplatform games... a 360 is cheaper.

  • Mr_GrinchMr_Grinch Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    -Loki- wrote: »
    Man, I really don't see piracy becoming big on the PS3. They tend to fill up their exclusives blu rays with 30 gigs of uncompressed audio. Downloading a 50 gig game just because it's got that much uncompressed audio isn't an enticing prospect. And multiplatform games... a 360 is cheaper.

    PS3 games have already been released, albeit not usable. They average around the same size as a 360 game, any extra padding can easily be stripped. Very few games use anywhere NEAR 30gb and I don't think any at all have hit 50gb.

    Besides, piracy may not be big but I'd like to see some decent homebrew, my Wii has got so much more use with the recent homebrew boom. Having all my games on a harddrive is incredibly useful when transporting it.

    That said my PS3 gets plenty of use at the moment, and I use the online so I doubt I'd be willing to sacrifice that.

    Whereas I'd love to homebrew my 360; custom dashes, games installed on the harddrive and things are only just getting started. Sadly my 360 is now above the exploitable dash.

    Anyway, back on topic, I used my linux install last night. It's a beast for video encoding.

    Steam: Sir_Grinch
    PSN: SirGrinchX
    Xbox Live: SirGrinch X
  • acidlacedpenguinacidlacedpenguin Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    -Loki- wrote: »
    Man, I really don't see piracy becoming big on the PS3. They tend to fill up their exclusives blu rays with 30 gigs of uncompressed audio. Downloading a 50 gig game just because it's got that much uncompressed audio isn't an enticing prospect. And multiplatform games... a 360 is cheaper.

    pirates in the past have been known to compress audio/video files to make DVD9 games fit on DVD5s, I imagine just compressing that audio would bring it down to like, 8 or 9 gigs alone.

    GT: Acidboogie PSNid: AcidLacedPenguiN
  • GrimReaperGrimReaper Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Mr_Grinch wrote: »
    Follow up:

    http://www.playstationuniversity.com/ps3-owner-refunded-without-return-for-missing-other-os-3555/

    Someone has got a partial refund for their PS3 through Amazon due to the removal of OtherOS.

    If people across Europe can get £70'ish cash back for nothing then I suspect a lot of people may take that up, doubt I'll be able to get one. I bought mine from a virgin megastore in Leeds that has since closed.

    EDIT: It's £84 ($130), I'd be all over that if that store chain was still open.

    PSN | Steam
    ---
    I've got a spare copy of Portal, if anyone wants it message me.
  • ArcticMonkeyArcticMonkey Registered User
    edited April 2010
    Furthermore, it raises questions about the millions of Euros Sony saved over the years on import tax in Europe, thanks to being able to declare the PS3 a computer rather than a game console -- game consoles carry an import tax, while computers do not.

    First I guess [Citation needed].
    Second, if the EU and European PS3 buyers could make removing an advertised feature prohibitively costly for Sony, that would be great.

    "You read it! You can't unread it!"
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  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Zhu-Li, do the thing! Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Furthermore, it raises questions about the millions of Euros Sony saved over the years on import tax in Europe, thanks to being able to declare the PS3 a computer rather than a game console -- game consoles carry an import tax, while computers do not.

    First I guess [Citation needed].
    Second, if the EU and European PS3 buyers could make removing an advertised feature prohibitively costly for Sony, that would be great.

    This is allegedly the only reason Sony allowed people to put Linux in the PS3 to begin with; I remember the baffled conversations on this when the PS3 was released.

    3DS: 0344-9335-6762
  • Mr_GrinchMr_Grinch Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Steam: Sir_Grinch
    PSN: SirGrinchX
    Xbox Live: SirGrinch X
  • GrimReaperGrimReaper Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Mr_Grinch wrote: »

    That doesn't read as an apology, it reads more as "tough shit suckers".

    I mean, look at the last bit:
    Furthermore our terms and conditions clearly state that we have the right to revise the PS3's settings and features in order to prevent access to unauthorised or pirated content.

    PSN | Steam
    ---
    I've got a spare copy of Portal, if anyone wants it message me.
  • Unco-ordinatedUnco-ordinated Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Furthermore, it raises questions about the millions of Euros Sony saved over the years on import tax in Europe, thanks to being able to declare the PS3 a computer rather than a game console -- game consoles carry an import tax, while computers do not.

    First I guess [Citation needed].
    Second, if the EU and European PS3 buyers could make removing an advertised feature prohibitively costly for Sony, that would be great.

    Whoever wrote that part of the wikipedia entry has no clue what they're talking about. That was probably one of the goals of including Linux support but it didn't actually work, it was never approved (much like their similar attempts with the PS2). If anything Sony would've spent more money including Linux support than they ever earned off it. Off the top of my head, I think that law was changed shortly afterwards anyway.

    Steam ID - LiquidSolid170 | PSN ID - LiquidSolid
  • halkunhalkun Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Awesome, Sony's changed their EULA that says they can alter the system without your knowledge or consent. So now updates can be installed without you agreeing to them.

    Here's the link

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  • amnesiasoftamnesiasoft Thick Creamy Furry Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    These last two firmware updates make me regret having bought my PS3. Guess my game count will not be going above 5 though.

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  • ThreepioThreepio New Westminster, BCRegistered User regular
    edited April 2010
    These last two firmware updates make me regret having bought my PS3. Guess my game count will not be going above 5 though.

    It would be good of you to take a stand on this. It shows moral fibre and that you're willing to forego fun in the name of a cause.

    Personally I'm more focused on enjoying my console and the games that are coming out, so I can't join you in that. But you go, man. Good on ya.

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  • HenroidHenroid Gibberish Cold white sand!Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    I understand that when you buy a console you're more or less agreeing to play by the company's rules, but it seems to me that allowing some level of control on the user end has been the way to go. This is unsporting. I don't know how likely it is that it will affect someone like me who doesn't mod their console in any way. But it just makes me a tad paranoid.

    "Ultima Online Pre-Trammel is the perfect example of why libertarians are full of shit." - @Ludious
    PA Lets Play Archive - Twitter - Blog
  • amnesiasoftamnesiasoft Thick Creamy Furry Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Threepio wrote: »
    Personally I'm more focused on enjoying my console and the games that are coming out, so I can't join you in that. But you go, man. Good on ya.
    I've got a fully functional PC and 360. I'm not at a loss for good games.

    steam_sig.png
  • GentlemanneGentlemanne Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    So out of interest, what happens when you update with a Linux partition on the drive? does it just get formatted away?

    Not updated yet as I do not want to loose anything I have on my Linux side.

  • -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    They're just trying to keep the console secure. I mean, they're not going to turn around and remove media server streaming just, you know, because they hate us and don't want us to buy more of their products.

    Seeing that they removed the Other OS option before geohot managed to 'hack' the console (since Slims were shipped without the option), they probably found the fault before he did, and decided to remove it from all consoles after he announced his hack. I wouldn't be surprised if they were trying to fix it before he found the flaw, but just went on the side of console security instead of risking hacked consoles before they could fix it.

  • ThreepioThreepio New Westminster, BCRegistered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Threepio wrote: »
    Personally I'm more focused on enjoying my console and the games that are coming out, so I can't join you in that. But you go, man. Good on ya.
    I've got a fully functional PC and 360. I'm not at a loss for good games.

    I salute you, sir. You're a better man than I.


    So... who's looking forward to playing Mod Nation Racers online?

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  • -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Threepio wrote: »
    So... who's looking forward to playing Mod Nation Racers online?

    More looking forward to Gran Turismo 5 online.

  • HenroidHenroid Gibberish Cold white sand!Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    So out of interest, what happens when you update with a Linux partition on the drive? does it just get formatted away?

    Not updated yet as I do not want to loose anything I have on my Linux side.

    It'd have to format your drive to get rid of a partition, right? Since partitions are established on completely wiped drives? So all your other shit would go away.

    I guess this is where the confusion is. Because now instead of being obligated to say, "Hey you have shit on there we don't like and this update is going to wipe it, better backup your other stuff first," they can just do it. Maybe.

    "Ultima Online Pre-Trammel is the perfect example of why libertarians are full of shit." - @Ludious
    PA Lets Play Archive - Twitter - Blog
  • PataPata Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Welp.

    Never updating the PS3 ever again.

    Sorry PSN games. Looks like you're out.

    Spoiler:
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