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Want To Be A [Birther] In The Military? Hope You Like Making Little Rocks

AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
edited October 2010 in Debate and/or Discourse
...out of big ones.

The Army has finally decided that enough is enough, and is now court-martialing a birther officer that refuses to deploy.
The Army filed formal changes against Lt. Col. Terry Lakin, a military physician who refused to deploy to Afghanistan because he believes President Barack Obama hasn't proven that he was born in the U.S.

The decision to initiate potential court-martial proceedings against Col. Lakin represents a line in the sand for the Army, which declined to discipline a pair of officers who raised similar questions last year about Mr. Obama's constitutional eligibility to serve as commander in chief.

Chuck Dasey, a spokesman for Walter Reed Army Medical Center in Washington, said Col. Lakin was being charged with three counts of disobeying a lawful order and one count of dereliction of duty. If found guilty, Col. Lakin could be kicked out of the Army, forced to give up his retirement benefits and jailed for up to four years.

Col. Lakin and his attorney didn't respond to phone messages or emails seeking comment. In a statement released through the foundation raising money for his legal-defense fund, the officer said he was prepared to press his case in court.

"I invited my court martial, and today I stand ready to answer these charges," Col. Lakin said. "I was prepared to deploy if only the president would authorize the release of the proof of his eligibility. He refused, and now the court will determine the issue, and my fate."

It's about fucking time. And I have a feeling that after this, you're going to see the membership of the odious "Oath Keepers" group dwindle as the people in it suddenly realize that they are putting their freedom, career, and pension on the line. As for the doctor - sure, he's getting used, but you'd think that being a doctor, he would have been smarter.

AngelHedgie on
XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum
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«13

Posts

  • Muse Among MenMuse Among Men Suburban Bunny Princess? Its time for a new shtick Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    A shitty excuse to not deploy; they could have tried harder/better.

    Also, your avatar goes so well with the post, "I am ... dissapointed.".

  • KalTorakKalTorak Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    This guy seems to put a lot of faith in the courts that have never accepted any of this birther bullshit as anything other than... well, bullshit. And who financially bitchslapped Orly Taitz, the birther queen.

  • PerpetualPerpetual Registered User
    edited April 2010
    Is there really someone named Orly?

    That's pretty awesome.

  • KalTorakKalTorak Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Sadly, yes.

  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Perpetual wrote: »
    Is there really someone named Orly?

    That's pretty awesome.

    Yes, there is.

    No, it's not nearly as awesome as you think, as her picture is next to the definition of batshit insane.

    And yes, all the jokes, image macros, etc. have been done to death already. Please don't resurrect them.

    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum
    Spoiler:
  • SmokeStacksSmokeStacks License Number 137596Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    When the shit hits the fan at trial the Birthers are just going to use his incarceration as an excuse to turn him into a martyr for "bravely" fighting against the "tyrannical" President.

    I hope they throw the book at him, partially because what he is doing is absolutely ridiculous, and partially because when you join the military, you are nothing more than a tool for the government with very little say in how your life operates and every 18 year old kid who is thinking of signing up needs to know that so he can make an informed decision.

  • electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Wait the person who founded the whole Birther thing is named Orly?

    Oh god.

    Dis' wrote: »
    Cancer is when cells stop letting the body mooch off their hard work - clearly a community of like-minded cells should isolate themselves and do the best job each can do, even if the rest of the body collapses!
  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Wait the person who founded the whole Birther thing is named Orly?

    Oh god.

    Well, she didn't found it so much as ran away with it, deep into dark, insane places.

    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum
    Spoiler:
  • KalTorakKalTorak Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Wait the person who founded the whole Birther thing is named Orly?

    Oh god.

    Not really, she's just one of the more prominent people trying to cash in on it. Last I heard, one of the courts fined her $20,000 for abusing the court system.

  • WazzaWazza Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Wait the person who founded the whole Birther thing is named Orly?

    Oh god.

    She is a dentist/real estate agent/lawyer, no fooliin'!

  • Wandering IdiotWandering Idiot Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Perpetual wrote: »
    Is there really someone named Orly?
    Ya rly.



    (I don't know what's wrong with you people, there was only one correct answer to that). Actually, I think it’ll be kind of nice to have this out in court, if they really do argue the Obama birth angle instead of the judge dismissing that argument on the grounds that he is the sitting Commander-in-Chief and any question of that legitimacy would have to be a separate trial.

  • durandal4532durandal4532 Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    It's nice to see that they're... I guess I don't care about actively pursuing people who believe this, because who cares, but that they aren't allowing the politicized nature of it to create the dumbest dodge in military history.

  • override367override367 Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    What would happen if the judge agreed with this guy and demanded obama's birth certificate?

    I mean, does any legal entity actually have the power to compel a sitting president to show his birth certificate to the public?

    XBLIVE: Biggestoverride
    League of Legends: override367
  • EvanderEvander Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    I went to school with a girl named Orly. In Hebrew, it means "my light".

    georgersig.jpg
  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic I've Done Worse Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    KalTorak wrote: »
    This guy seems to put a lot of faith in the courts that have never accepted any of this birther bullshit as anything other than... well, bullshit. And who financially bitchslapped Orly Taitz, the birther queen.

    Well this will go to Military court and they're a bit different. Though I have my doubts that they'd make it easier to challenge the validity of your superior officer's credentials.

  • DoctorArchDoctorArch Curmudgeon Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    As for the doctor - sure, he's getting used, but you'd think that being a doctor, he would have been smarter.

    The scary thing is that being a doctor does not necessarily require smarts, but instead a good capacity for memorization. Now, to be a good doctor, that requires smarts.

    As for this guy, I hope he gets court-martial'ed up the rear.

    steam_sig.png
  • EvanderEvander Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Archgarth wrote: »
    As for the doctor - sure, he's getting used, but you'd think that being a doctor, he would have been smarter.

    The scary thing is that being a doctor does not necessarily require smarts, but instead a good capacity for memorization. Now, to be a good doctor, that requires smarts.

    As for this guy, I hope he gets court-martial'ed up the rear.

    There was a great SMBC strip I wish I could find that basically pointed out that being an expert in one area doesn't mean ANYTHING AT ALL about the validity of your opinions in unrelated areas.

    georgersig.jpg
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Ann Arbor, MichiganRegistered User regular
    edited April 2010
    What would happen if the judge agreed with this guy and demanded obama's birth certificate?

    I mean, does any legal entity actually have the power to compel a sitting president to show his birth certificate to the public?

    The state of Hawaii would tell the judge he's a fucking moron and the matter would be settled.

  • EvanderEvander Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Obama's birth certificate is ALL OVER the internet.

    In the ABSOLUTE worst case scenario to come out of this case, Obama's birth certificate would be presented, and it would be over.

    That is why the birther thing is all so idiotic.

    georgersig.jpg
  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic I've Done Worse Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    So not really relevant but was Obama's mother ever even in Kenya? It'd require a passport and all that, I'm just curious.

  • JokermanJokerman Mr Jellybean Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Good for the Army for not taking this bullshit laying down. Granted the millitary is a convervative institution by nature, the truth is you have to serve the comander in chief no mater who he is, and if you don't want to deploy, well then you get to spend some time in levenworth.

    DNiIgRK.png
  • EvanderEvander Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Jokerman wrote: »
    the millitary is a convervative institution by nature

    what does that mean?

    georgersig.jpg
  • TaramoorTaramoor Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Evander wrote: »
    Jokerman wrote: »
    the millitary is a convervative institution by nature

    what does that mean?

    Originally "Conservative" meant resistant to or cautious of Change. Which is fine, and can keep a government in check when it tries to overextend itself.

    Now it means "Republican".

    So... yeah.

  • EvanderEvander Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Taramoor wrote: »
    Evander wrote: »
    Jokerman wrote: »
    the millitary is a convervative institution by nature

    what does that mean?

    Originally "Conservative" meant resistant to or cautious of Change. Which is fine, and can keep a government in check when it tries to overextend itself.

    Now it means "Republican".

    So... yeah.

    neither of those answers are exactly right.

    I was looking for jokerman to give an in-context explanation, though

    georgersig.jpg
  • JokermanJokerman Mr Jellybean Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Evander wrote: »
    Jokerman wrote: »
    the millitary is a convervative institution by nature

    what does that mean?

    It means that there's a large amount of right wing politics ingrained into the millitary at a base level, ESPECIALY if you're an Officer. If you vote democrat, and you let other people know, then you can pretty much expect not to become higher then Captain.

    DNiIgRK.png
  • EvanderEvander Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Jokerman wrote: »
    Evander wrote: »
    Jokerman wrote: »
    the millitary is a convervative institution by nature

    what does that mean?

    It means that there's a large amount of right wing politics ingrained into the millitary at a base level, ESPECIALY if you're an Officer. If you vote democrat, and you let other people know, then you can pretty much expect not to become higher then Captain.

    why? how long has it been this way?

    partisanship goes directly against what the military stands for. if it has infected the ranks of the military, then something obviously needs to be done to purge it.

    georgersig.jpg
  • JokermanJokerman Mr Jellybean Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Evander wrote: »
    Jokerman wrote: »
    Evander wrote: »
    Jokerman wrote: »
    the millitary is a convervative institution by nature

    what does that mean?

    It means that there's a large amount of right wing politics ingrained into the millitary at a base level, ESPECIALY if you're an Officer. If you vote democrat, and you let other people know, then you can pretty much expect not to become higher then Captain.

    why? how long has it been this way?

    partisanship goes directly against what the military stands for. if it has infected the ranks of the military, then something obviously needs to be done to purge it.

    I can't tell you how long it's been like that, only that somewhere along the way thats the way it became. If I could be so bold as to stereotype, I imagine a large part of it is that the crowd the millitary draws skews right since liberals seem to be anti-fighting, pacifist (Although in the past ten years I dont know if there's any truth to that).

    Keep in mind that it's nothing official that makes Lib's in the Millitary a minority, it's just the prevailing attitude of the majority. The Millitary is one of the few remaining boy's clubs left in America, and the Brass is made up of the most stuffy white men imaginable.

    DNiIgRK.png
  • Kipling217Kipling217 Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Evander wrote: »
    Jokerman wrote: »
    Evander wrote: »
    Jokerman wrote: »
    the millitary is a convervative institution by nature

    what does that mean?

    It means that there's a large amount of right wing politics ingrained into the millitary at a base level, ESPECIALY if you're an Officer. If you vote democrat, and you let other people know, then you can pretty much expect not to become higher then Captain.

    why? how long has it been this way?

    partisanship goes directly against what the military stands for. if it has infected the ranks of the military, then something obviously needs to be done to purge it.

    What planet have you guys been on? Its been that way since like forever and its not a US thing either. In every country I know of the Millitary is a bastion of conservative politics. Maybe not in the crazy batshits Air Force Evangelicals, but its there.

    Its the basic nature of the millitary: if you sign up to kill or die for something you must really like it the way it is.

    Communicating from the last of the Babylon Stations.
  • JokermanJokerman Mr Jellybean Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Kipling217 wrote: »
    Evander wrote: »
    Jokerman wrote: »
    Evander wrote: »
    Jokerman wrote: »
    the millitary is a convervative institution by nature

    what does that mean?

    It means that there's a large amount of right wing politics ingrained into the millitary at a base level, ESPECIALY if you're an Officer. If you vote democrat, and you let other people know, then you can pretty much expect not to become higher then Captain.

    why? how long has it been this way?

    partisanship goes directly against what the military stands for. if it has infected the ranks of the military, then something obviously needs to be done to purge it.

    What planet have you guys been on? Its been that way since like forever and its not a US thing either. In every country I know of the Millitary is a bastion of conservative politics. Maybe not in the crazy batshits Air Force Evangelicals, but its there.

    Its the basic nature of the millitary: if you sign up to kill or die for something you must really like it the way it is.

    Oh man, the Air force is the fucking worse. Nothing against any Airmen who may post here, as I consider the peers here to be above this level of goosey, but when I was on a shuttle to MEPS to sign my final contract with the army and ship off, I witnesed something that made me question if i should have ever tried.
    Spoiler:

    True story, every word was spoken.

    DNiIgRK.png
  • Just_Bri_ThanksJust_Bri_Thanks Seething with rage from a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited April 2010
    Important point: Courts Martial are not the same as the courts you and I know as civilians. Please read up on it:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Courts-martial_in_the_United_States

    Some days I just want to smack people with a rolled up newspaper. Or a phone book.
    A folding chair is looking like an attractive option right now too...
  • KalkinoKalkino Buttons Londres Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Jokerman wrote: »
    Kipling217 wrote: »
    Evander wrote: »
    Jokerman wrote: »
    Evander wrote: »
    Jokerman wrote: »
    the millitary is a convervative institution by nature

    what does that mean?

    It means that there's a large amount of right wing politics ingrained into the millitary at a base level, ESPECIALY if you're an Officer. If you vote democrat, and you let other people know, then you can pretty much expect not to become higher then Captain.

    why? how long has it been this way?

    partisanship goes directly against what the military stands for. if it has infected the ranks of the military, then something obviously needs to be done to purge it.

    What planet have you guys been on? Its been that way since like forever and its not a US thing either. In every country I know of the Millitary is a bastion of conservative politics. Maybe not in the crazy batshits Air Force Evangelicals, but its there.

    Its the basic nature of the millitary: if you sign up to kill or die for something you must really like it the way it is.

    Oh man, the Air force is the fucking worse. Nothing against any Airmen who may post here, as I consider the peers here to be above this level of goosey, but when I was on a shuttle to MEPS to sign my final contract with the army and ship off, I witnesed something that made me question if i should have ever tried.
    Spoiler:

    True story, every word was spoken.

    Seriously...bootstraps?? Wtf?

    Freedom for the Northern Isles!
  • JokermanJokerman Mr Jellybean Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Kalkino wrote: »
    Jokerman wrote: »
    Kipling217 wrote: »
    Evander wrote: »
    Jokerman wrote: »
    Evander wrote: »
    Jokerman wrote: »
    the millitary is a convervative institution by nature

    what does that mean?

    It means that there's a large amount of right wing politics ingrained into the millitary at a base level, ESPECIALY if you're an Officer. If you vote democrat, and you let other people know, then you can pretty much expect not to become higher then Captain.

    why? how long has it been this way?

    partisanship goes directly against what the military stands for. if it has infected the ranks of the military, then something obviously needs to be done to purge it.

    What planet have you guys been on? Its been that way since like forever and its not a US thing either. In every country I know of the Millitary is a bastion of conservative politics. Maybe not in the crazy batshits Air Force Evangelicals, but its there.

    Its the basic nature of the millitary: if you sign up to kill or die for something you must really like it the way it is.

    Oh man, the Air force is the fucking worse. Nothing against any Airmen who may post here, as I consider the peers here to be above this level of goosey, but when I was on a shuttle to MEPS to sign my final contract with the army and ship off, I witnesed something that made me question if i should have ever tried.
    Spoiler:

    True story, every word was spoken.

    Seriously...bootstraps?? Wtf?

    The funniest part about it all? He was a birther. And he kept talking about how Obama wasn't even black.

    DNiIgRK.png
  • KalkinoKalkino Buttons Londres Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Jokerman wrote: »
    Kalkino wrote: »
    Jokerman wrote: »
    Kipling217 wrote: »
    Evander wrote: »
    Jokerman wrote: »
    Evander wrote: »
    Jokerman wrote: »
    the millitary is a convervative institution by nature

    what does that mean?

    It means that there's a large amount of right wing politics ingrained into the millitary at a base level, ESPECIALY if you're an Officer. If you vote democrat, and you let other people know, then you can pretty much expect not to become higher then Captain.

    why? how long has it been this way?

    partisanship goes directly against what the military stands for. if it has infected the ranks of the military, then something obviously needs to be done to purge it.

    What planet have you guys been on? Its been that way since like forever and its not a US thing either. In every country I know of the Millitary is a bastion of conservative politics. Maybe not in the crazy batshits Air Force Evangelicals, but its there.

    Its the basic nature of the millitary: if you sign up to kill or die for something you must really like it the way it is.

    Oh man, the Air force is the fucking worse. Nothing against any Airmen who may post here, as I consider the peers here to be above this level of goosey, but when I was on a shuttle to MEPS to sign my final contract with the army and ship off, I witnesed something that made me question if i should have ever tried.
    Spoiler:

    True story, every word was spoken.

    Seriously...bootstraps?? Wtf?

    The funniest part about it all? He was a birther. And he kept talking about how Obama wasn't even black.

    That is pretty terrifying. But having now watched Generation Kill I find it more believable than I once would have

    Freedom for the Northern Isles!
  • kildykildy Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    What would happen if the judge agreed with this guy and demanded obama's birth certificate?

    I mean, does any legal entity actually have the power to compel a sitting president to show his birth certificate to the public?

    In a normal court, I believe the defense would roll their eyes and present the certificate that has been presented over and over again. The court has no power to say "yeah well, I don't believe that official document, get me another!" without serious evidence showing it to be a fake.

    In a court martial, I'm not 100%, but I think it's entirely up to the good doctor to prove he has evidence that the President is not legitimate, it's up to him to prove the order is illegal, not up to the military to prove that it was. Plus, I think he's jumping a few levels of the chain of command by going "oh yeah, all your orders are illegal because the POTUS isn't legal!"

    Basically, the guy is completely fucked. He lacks any form of leg to stand on.

  • DuffelDuffel Registered User
    edited April 2010
    Jokerman wrote: »
    The funniest part about it all? He was a birther. And he kept talking about how Obama wasn't even black.
    Well, technically President Obama isn't black. He's biracial. The fact that, in our society, "biracial = black" just illustrates that we have a lot farther to go toward racial equality than a lot of people are willing to admit.

    Not sure if that's what they were saying, though.

  • OctoparrotOctoparrot Registered User
    edited April 2010
    Sounds like this guy's the kind of doctor who joined to avoid malpractice suits.

    the GOP shouldn't give a rats ass about them since they won't vote for them. If someone won't vote for you they might as well not exist.
  • Captain CarrotCaptain Carrot P'burg, MTRegistered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Duffel wrote: »
    Jokerman wrote: »
    The funniest part about it all? He was a birther. And he kept talking about how Obama wasn't even black.
    Well, technically President Obama isn't black. He's biracial. The fact that, in our society, "biracial = black" just illustrates that we have a lot farther to go toward racial equality than a lot of people are willing to admit.

    Not sure if that's what they were saying, though.
    A. Obama self-identifies as black.
    B. I think you mean "biracial with white and something else = something else".
    C. Quite a few black people in the US have non-black ancestry, so Obama is not particularly unusual in this.

    Spoiler:
  • DuffelDuffel Registered User
    edited April 2010
    Duffel wrote: »
    Jokerman wrote: »
    The funniest part about it all? He was a birther. And he kept talking about how Obama wasn't even black.
    Well, technically President Obama isn't black. He's biracial. The fact that, in our society, "biracial = black" just illustrates that we have a lot farther to go toward racial equality than a lot of people are willing to admit.

    Not sure if that's what they were saying, though.
    A. Obama self-identifies as black.
    B. I think you mean "biracial with white and something else = something else".
    C. Quite a few black people in the US have non-black ancestry, so Obama is not particularly unusual in this.

    A.) Yeah, it's important that Obama self-identifies as black, and I think we should let people determine for themselves what race they are. However,
    B.) This is the problem, and more or less what I was trying to say. It's basically a legacy of the one-drop rule.

    I don't feel like derailing the thread with this, though.

  • KalkinoKalkino Buttons Londres Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Duffel wrote: »
    Jokerman wrote: »
    The funniest part about it all? He was a birther. And he kept talking about how Obama wasn't even black.
    Well, technically President Obama isn't black. He's biracial. The fact that, in our society, "biracial = black" just illustrates that we have a lot farther to go toward racial equality than a lot of people are willing to admit.

    Not sure if that's what they were saying, though.
    A. Obama self-identifies as black.
    B. I think you mean "biracial with white and something else = something else".
    C. Quite a few black people in the US have non-black ancestry, so Obama is not particularly unusual in this.

    Yeah, I believe that self identification is the main determination of identity that I am comfortable with. I sort of feel a little uncomfortable with detailed definitions of racial or ethnic identity. I was in Spain's primary museum dealing with all things American, which as you'd expect is pretty damm awesome, given their role in European conquest and colonisation of those continents. Anyway, there was a gallery of paintings from the early 19th century that set out the various racial classifications, which were based on where one's parents were from, what ancestry they had and what colour they were. Pretty spooky stuff

    Freedom for the Northern Isles!
  • ElJeffeElJeffe Super Moderator, Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited April 2010
    I like how the military guy is so patriotic that he's willing to, in principle, fuck over the troops in Afghanistan in order to stick it to the president.

    [While watching popcorn in the microwave]
    Maddie: "Look Riley, the bag's as big as your head now!"
    Riley: "Hahaha, yeah!"
    Maddie: "Look, now it's as big as your butt!"
    Riley: "Omigosh, it looks just like my butt!"
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